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More on "lying shame"

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  • JWMeritt@aol.com
    In a message dated 10/1/2002 9:51:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Tony
    Message 1 of 2 , Oct 1, 2002
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      In a message dated 10/1/2002 9:51:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Tony" <
      tosime@...> writes:
      >
      > I could not quite understand your post. Could you explain it for me please?

      Words that have well-defined and well-known acceptable meanings (in this case
      "energy") are misused to apply to things that they really don't, and people
      extrapolate from known characteristics of the item identified ("energy") to
      prognosticate unobserved phenomena that just don't happen. Instead of
      communicating the person misusing the term spreads confusion or disbelief.
      Such misuse has been used by skeptics in many arena as proof of nonexistence
      of the original phenomena when there postulated characteristics can not be
      observed.

      Personally, I would much rather that a new word be used that didn't have the
      additional baggage.

      Jim


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Tony
      Hi Jim, Thanks for your explanation. I think I have a better understanding of what you are saying, although there are now some new things that I need to
      Message 2 of 2 , Oct 1, 2002
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        Hi Jim,

        Thanks for your explanation. I think I have a better understanding of what
        you are saying, although there are now some new things that I need to
        understand. As this is a meditation forum, I would like to place this
        discussion in the context of meditation.

        When you meditate, you may experience things that you have never experienced
        before. Since these are not common, everyday experiences, you may not have
        the exact words to express your experience. We want to communicate our
        experience, so what do we do? We could create new words. Unfortunately, for
        some of us, our language skills are not so deep that we can create new words
        easily. How many of us have ever created a new word that became generally
        accepted?

        What we generally do is take a practical approach and select words which
        best fit our meaning and qualify them when we feel that what may be
        understood goes outside of our meaning. I think we have a sense that words
        are tools that we use to communicate.

        Human interaction has a natural efficiency. We simply would not last long if
        we did not have this efficiency. That is why, for instance, Eskimos have so
        many words for snow. Human interaction also evolves as new experiences are
        shared. If we created new words for every shade in every new experience, we
        would soon be flooded with new words and communication would become
        inefficient.

        So where does that leave us? I think we can use existing words in new ways
        if we believe the receiver will understand the new use to our satisfaction.
        This is how words naturally evolve. If there is any confusion in the new use
        of words, our natural desire for efficiency will adjust either the word or
        its connotation and denotation. This will happen much faster than any formal
        process of definition. Our desire to communicate should not wait for a
        generally acceptable word to be created.

        Coming back to your post, can you give me an example of where "...a skeptic
        has misused words to prove the nonexistence of the original phenomena when
        its postulated characteristics can not be observed..."?

        Also, can you help me in an aspect of meditation I want to describe? In my
        inner sounds meditation, I experience something that has some of the
        features of movement. When I focus on a sound, that sound appears to come
        closer, while other sounds appear to recede. It feels like I am moving
        towards the sound I am focusing on, even though there is no physical
        movement. What word or words could I use to describe this experience?

        Thanks again for your comments...Tony


        -----Original Message-----
        From: JWMeritt@... [mailto:JWMeritt@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 4:09 PM
        To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Meditation Society of America] More on "lying shame"


        In a message dated 10/1/2002 9:51:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Tony" <
        tosime@...> writes:
        >
        > I could not quite understand your post. Could you explain it for me
        please?

        Words that have well-defined and well-known acceptable meanings (in this
        case
        "energy") are misused to apply to things that they really don't, and people
        extrapolate from known characteristics of the item identified ("energy") to
        prognosticate unobserved phenomena that just don't happen. Instead of
        communicating the person misusing the term spreads confusion or disbelief.
        Such misuse has been used by skeptics in many arena as proof of nonexistence
        of the original phenomena when there postulated characteristics can not be
        observed.

        Personally, I would much rather that a new word be used that didn't have the
        additional baggage.

        Jim


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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