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Re: Naked Invitation

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  • devianandi
    ... devi: jp, are you that ignorant about sex that you have to talk about it with other people?
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 4, 2003
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, JP
      <jppoffandi@y...> wrote:
      > Dear Friends
      >
      > A deep bow of gratitude and thanks to beloved
      > Jerry Katz of NDS (http://www.nonduality.com),
      > pioneering visionary of all things Nondual on the
      > Net.
      >
      > His example of celebrating and encouraging
      > diverse voices, his work of loving service and
      > devotion have inspired many people to create
      > internet communities and lists dedicated to the
      > varieties of nondual spirituality.
      >
      > You are cordially invited and warmly welcome to
      > subscribe to a new list on Yahoo Groups:
      >
      > Erotic Nonduality
      >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eroticnonduality
      >
      > A sex-positive list celebrating and exploring the
      > relationship between sexuality, the erotic and
      > nonduality.
      >
      > Don't be bashful.
      >
      > Come as you are.
      >
      > Love,
      >
      > JP
      >

      devi: jp, are you that ignorant about sex that you have to talk about
      it with other people?
    • Nina
      ... Hehe, are we all so ignorant about meditation and nonduality that we have to talk about it with other people? devi-lishly, Nina
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 4, 2003
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
        <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > devi: jp, are you that ignorant about sex
        > that you have to talk about
        > it with other people?

        Hehe, are we all so ignorant about meditation
        and nonduality that we have to talk about it
        with other people?

        devi-lishly,
        Nina
      • devianandi
        ... devi: hmmm. got me! i know that the word *ignorance* wasn t right but i couldn t think of a less offensive one...obviously, i think that most of the people
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 4, 2003
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          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Nina"
          <murrkis@y...> wrote:
          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
          > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > > devi: jp, are you that ignorant about sex
          > > that you have to talk about
          > > it with other people?
          >
          > Hehe, are we all so ignorant about meditation
          > and nonduality that we have to talk about it
          > with other people?
          >
          > devi-lishly,
          > Nina

          devi: hmmm. got me! i know that the word *ignorance* wasn't right but
          i couldn't think of a less offensive one...obviously, i think that
          most of the people in these groups think that kind of sex club is
          *sleazy* eh? i'm a middle-aged woman with 5 grown children, jps
          offer gave me the creeps..to me it was so totally inappropriate to
          put out an invite in this highly evolved group of beings...in
          Conversations with God i think we are called HEBs..
        • Gene Poole
          ... What an outlandish and irresponsible statement to make, Devi. I could ask you: Are you so ignorant about people, that you have to ask other people about
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 4, 2003
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            > devianandi <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > > JP > <jppoffandi@y...> wrote:


            > > Dear Friends
            > >
            > > A deep bow of gratitude and thanks to beloved
            > > Jerry Katz of NDS (http://www.nonduality.com),
            > > pioneering visionary of all things Nondual on the
            > > Net.
            > >
            > > His example of celebrating and encouraging
            > > diverse voices, his work of loving service and
            > > devotion have inspired many people to create
            > > internet communities and lists dedicated to the
            > > varieties of nondual spirituality.
            > >
            > > You are cordially invited and warmly welcome to
            > > subscribe to a new list on Yahoo Groups:
            > >
            > > Erotic Nonduality
            > >
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eroticnonduality
            > >
            > > A sex-positive list celebrating and exploring the
            > > relationship between sexuality, the erotic and
            > > nonduality.
            > >
            > > Don't be bashful.
            > >
            > > Come as you are.
            > >
            > > Love,
            > >
            > > JP
            > >

            > devi: jp, are you that ignorant about sex that you have to talk about
            > it with other people?

            What an outlandish and irresponsible statement to
            make, Devi.

            I could ask you: "Are you so ignorant about
            people, that you have to ask other people
            about them?", and the answer would obviously
            be "yes".

            Get a clue, Devi.

            The nice thing about lava-lamps, is that
            they just sit there quietly, bubbling their
            blobs... their arisings seen, silently...


            ==GP==
          • Nina
            ... What are HEBs? I think we ought to take a poll: Do you think that kind of sex club is *sleazy*? A. Yes. B. No. C. No opinion. D. I am too overcome by
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 4, 2003
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              > > > devi: jp, are you that ignorant about sex
              > > > that you have to talk about
              > > > it with other people?
              > >
              > > Hehe, are we all so ignorant about meditation
              > > and nonduality that we have to talk about it
              > > with other people?
              > >
              > > devi-lishly,
              > > Nina
              >
              > devi:
              > hmmm. got me! i know that the word *ignorance* wasn't right but
              > i couldn't think of a less offensive one...obviously, i think that
              > most of the people in these groups think that kind of sex club is
              > *sleazy* eh? i'm a middle-aged woman with 5 grown children, jps
              > offer gave me the creeps..to me it was so totally inappropriate to
              > put out an invite in this highly evolved group of beings...in
              > Conversations with God i think we are called HEBs..

              What are HEBs?

              I think we ought to take a poll:

              Do you think that kind of sex club is *sleazy*?

              A. Yes.
              B. No.
              C. No opinion.
              D. I am too overcome by sensual urges
              to respond articulately.
              E. I am too overcome by nondual being
              to respond articulately.
              F. Question does not compute: what's the
              difference between nondual being and sex?

              Feel free to add your own multiple choice answers.

              Seems that, when it comes to expounding on nonduality,
              that every other topic is fair game...
              donuts, incense, photography, painting, hiking,
              dogs and other animals, martial arts, physics,
              psychology, yoga/meditation, love and loss, gender,
              wisdom at the Waffle House, gardening, the creative
              process from poetry to parenting, metaphor after metaphor,
              on and on...

              So, why not sex?

              Would you cut one square from the quilt,
              calling it inappropriate?

              It seems, that inappropriate is merely...
              what you make it.

              It is interesting to note the areas of one's life
              that one distinguishes as being 'not appropriate'...
              why are these areas not appropriate, and in what context?

              It reminds me of a baby shower I attended a week or so ago,
              to honor my husband's brother and our sister-in-law, and
              the imminent coming of their child. This shower was held
              in one of the bastions of Southern propriety. It was
              fabulous entertainment to see what aspects of childbirth
              and rearing that group of folks chose to view and veil.

              I have become so used to navigating among a group of people
              who are entirely frank about the body, the gore, the pain,
              the parts, the inputs and outputs. It is always something
              of a shock to find myself ostracized when I carry that
              frankness into distant polite companies... such as at the
              shower, when I made the 'mistake' of mentioning the color
              of poison ivy scabs (green) and wound up silencing a roomful
              of people who stared in offense.

              It is that way with sex, as well. It is either not mentioned,
              or mentioned in veiled ways, through jokes or euphemisms.
              What would it look like to have as frank a relationship
              with one's sexuality, as one might have with one's personality
              tendencies? There is nothing innapropriate to be found, then.

              It will be interesting to see what comes from JP's club.
              Will it be more veils, or more views? Will it further a greater
              understanding within community, and of oneself? Will JP rise
              to the role of moderator, and support honest and even 'safe'
              exploration and sharing? This all remains to be seen...
              until then, it seems premature to label it as 'sleazy',
              or anything else... until then, and perhaps even then,
              any label would be pure projection, more a reflection of
              one's preferences, than the facts of the club.

              Nina
            • Gene Poole
              ... Highly Evolved Beings Or is it... Hardly Evolved Beings ? ... I choose d ... OK... After I broke out of the Matrix, I saw, with astonishing clarity,
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 4, 2003
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                > "Nina" <murrkis@y...> wrote:

                > > > > devi: jp, are you that ignorant about sex
                > > > > that you have to talk about
                > > > > it with other people?
                > > >
                > > > Hehe, are we all so ignorant about meditation
                > > > and nonduality that we have to talk about it
                > > > with other people?
                > > >
                > > > devi-lishly,
                > > > Nina
                > >
                > > devi:
                > > hmmm. got me! i know that the word *ignorance* wasn't right but
                > > i couldn't think of a less offensive one...obviously, i think that
                > > most of the people in these groups think that kind of sex club is
                > > *sleazy* eh? i'm a middle-aged woman with 5 grown children, jps
                > > offer gave me the creeps..to me it was so totally inappropriate to
                > > put out an invite in this highly evolved group of beings...in
                > > Conversations with God i think we are called HEBs..
                >
                > What are HEBs?

                "Highly Evolved Beings"

                Or is it... "Hardly Evolved Beings"?


                > I think we ought to take a poll:
                >
                > Do you think that kind of sex club is *sleazy*?
                >
                > A. Yes.
                > B. No.
                > C. No opinion.
                > D. I am too overcome by sensual urges
                > to respond articulately.
                > E. I am too overcome by nondual being
                > to respond articulately.
                > F. Question does not compute: what's the
                > difference between nondual being and sex?

                I choose 'd'

                > Feel free to add your own multiple choice answers.

                OK...

                After I broke out of the Matrix,
                I saw, with astonishing clarity,
                that the entire point of 'taboo'
                in society, is simply and purely
                CONTROL.

                One primary means of control, is
                the threat of being ostracized
                socially... of being banished, of
                being seen as 'not as good as she
                should be'... it is this threat, which
                is so full of fear, which keeps people
                in their boxes... with boundaries defined
                thousands of years ago, and enforced by
                pain, burning at the stake, torture, and death.

                A taboo may be meaningless in reality, but
                those who violate them, are red-flagged as
                deviants; and those who wish to take a stand
                'on the moral high ground' will speak and act
                against taboo-breakers... the punishment is not
                only inevitable, but mandatory as well...

                We are seeing here, in this example, the nakedly
                political nature of the popularity/power contests
                which these lists are rife with. The one who speaks
                out first and loudest against 'deviation' is the one who
                is trying to attain the topmost position in this little society.

                Nonetheless, we can expect that the 'enforcers' (agents!)
                which appear among us, at the drop of a cue, will continue
                to enact their robotic scripts of disapproval, punishment
                and execution of 'deviants'. The gossip-train never stops!

                > Seems that, when it comes to expounding on nonduality,
                > that every other topic is fair game...
                > donuts, incense, photography, painting, hiking,
                > dogs and other animals, martial arts, physics,
                > psychology, yoga/meditation, love and loss, gender,
                > wisdom at the Waffle House, gardening, the creative
                > process from poetry to parenting, metaphor after metaphor,
                > on and on...
                >
                > So, why not sex?

                Right. Of course. But what is sex???

                > Would you cut one square from the quilt,
                > calling it inappropriate?
                >
                > It seems, that inappropriate is merely...
                > what you make it.
                >
                > It is interesting to note the areas of one's life
                > that one distinguishes as being 'not appropriate'...
                > why are these areas not appropriate, and in what context?
                >
                > It reminds me of a baby shower I attended a week or so ago,
                > to honor my husband's brother and our sister-in-law, and
                > the imminent coming of their child. This shower was held
                > in one of the bastions of Southern propriety. It was
                > fabulous entertainment to see what aspects of childbirth
                > and rearing that group of folks chose to view and veil.
                >
                > I have become so used to navigating among a group of people
                > who are entirely frank about the body, the gore, the pain,
                > the parts, the inputs and outputs. It is always something
                > of a shock to find myself ostracized when I carry that
                > frankness into distant polite companies... such as at the
                > shower, when I made the 'mistake' of mentioning the color
                > of poison ivy scabs (green) and wound up silencing a roomful
                > of people who stared in offense.

                Heh heh... yet another black mark for Nina!

                > It is that way with sex, as well. It is either not mentioned,
                > or mentioned in veiled ways, through jokes or euphemisms.
                > What would it look like to have as frank a relationship
                > with one's sexuality, as one might have with one's personality
                > tendencies? There is nothing innapropriate to be found, then.

                True... although, there is bad timing.

                > It will be interesting to see what comes from JP's club.
                > Will it be more veils, or more views? Will it further a greater
                > understanding within community, and of oneself? Will JP rise
                > to the role of moderator, and support honest and even 'safe'
                > exploration and sharing? This all remains to be seen...
                > until then, it seems premature to label it as 'sleazy',
                > or anything else... until then, and perhaps even then,
                > any label would be pure projection, more a reflection of
                > one's preferences, than the facts of the club.
                >
                > Nina

                Fear is the motivator;
                politics is the method.


                ==Gene Poole==
              • Nina
                ... Hmm... devi-ants... ... Hmm... devi-ation... Could this be the universe calling out to devi to fulfill the promise of her spiritual name? Yep, just another
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 4, 2003
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                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Poole"
                  <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
                  > > Feel free to add your own multiple choice answers.
                  >
                  > OK...
                  >
                  > After I broke out of the Matrix,
                  > I saw, with astonishing clarity,
                  > that the entire point of 'taboo'
                  > in society, is simply and purely
                  > CONTROL.
                  >
                  > One primary means of control, is
                  > the threat of being ostracized
                  > socially... of being banished, of
                  > being seen as 'not as good as she
                  > should be'... it is this threat, which
                  > is so full of fear, which keeps people
                  > in their boxes... with boundaries defined
                  > thousands of years ago, and enforced by
                  > pain, burning at the stake, torture, and death.
                  >
                  > A taboo may be meaningless in reality, but
                  > those who violate them, are red-flagged as
                  > deviants; and those who wish to take a stand
                  > 'on the moral high ground' will speak and act
                  > against taboo-breakers... the punishment is not
                  > only inevitable, but mandatory as well...

                  Hmm... devi-ants...

                  > We are seeing here, in this example, the nakedly
                  > political nature of the popularity/power contests
                  > which these lists are rife with. The one who speaks
                  > out first and loudest against 'deviation' is the one who
                  > is trying to attain the topmost position in this little society.

                  Hmm... devi-ation...

                  Could this be the universe calling out to devi to
                  fulfill the promise of her spiritual name? Yep,
                  just another instance of 'you buy your ticket,
                  you take your chances...'

                  > Nonetheless, we can expect that the 'enforcers' (agents!)
                  > which appear among us, at the drop of a cue, will continue
                  > to enact their robotic scripts of disapproval, punishment
                  > and execution of 'deviants'. The gossip-train never stops!
                  >
                  > > Seems that, when it comes to expounding on nonduality,
                  > > that every other topic is fair game...
                  > > donuts, incense, photography, painting, hiking,
                  > > dogs and other animals, martial arts, physics,
                  > > psychology, yoga/meditation, love and loss, gender,
                  > > wisdom at the Waffle House, gardening, the creative
                  > > process from poetry to parenting, metaphor after metaphor,
                  > > on and on...
                  > >
                  > > So, why not sex?
                  >
                  > Right. Of course. But what is sex???

                  Only another metaphor...

                  > > Would you cut one square from the quilt,
                  > > calling it inappropriate?
                  > >
                  > > It seems, that inappropriate is merely...
                  > > what you make it.
                  > >
                  > > It is interesting to note the areas of one's life
                  > > that one distinguishes as being 'not appropriate'...
                  > > why are these areas not appropriate, and in what context?
                  > >
                  > > It reminds me of a baby shower I attended a week or so ago,
                  > > to honor my husband's brother and our sister-in-law, and
                  > > the imminent coming of their child. This shower was held
                  > > in one of the bastions of Southern propriety. It was
                  > > fabulous entertainment to see what aspects of childbirth
                  > > and rearing that group of folks chose to view and veil.
                  > >
                  > > I have become so used to navigating among a group of people
                  > > who are entirely frank about the body, the gore, the pain,
                  > > the parts, the inputs and outputs. It is always something
                  > > of a shock to find myself ostracized when I carry that
                  > > frankness into distant polite companies... such as at the
                  > > shower, when I made the 'mistake' of mentioning the color
                  > > of poison ivy scabs (green) and wound up silencing a roomful
                  > > of people who stared in offense.
                  >
                  > Heh heh... yet another black mark for Nina!

                  I am so covered with black marks, I sometimes
                  can't pass for a skinny white girl. Hmph.

                  > > It is that way with sex, as well. It is either not mentioned,
                  > > or mentioned in veiled ways, through jokes or euphemisms.
                  > > What would it look like to have as frank a relationship
                  > > with one's sexuality, as one might have with one's personality
                  > > tendencies? There is nothing innapropriate to be found, then.
                  >
                  > True... although, there is bad timing.

                  Come again?

                  still devi-lishly,
                  Nina
                • devianandi
                  ... about ... devi: yes i give a good silent darshan, bless you gene, but thats besides the point...from my point of view, inviting a group of semi-
                  Message 8 of 20 , Nov 5, 2003
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                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Poole"
                    <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
                    > > devianandi <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                    > > > JP > <jppoffandi@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > > > Dear Friends
                    > > >
                    > > > A deep bow of gratitude and thanks to beloved
                    > > > Jerry Katz of NDS (http://www.nonduality.com),
                    > > > pioneering visionary of all things Nondual on the
                    > > > Net.
                    > > >
                    > > > His example of celebrating and encouraging
                    > > > diverse voices, his work of loving service and
                    > > > devotion have inspired many people to create
                    > > > internet communities and lists dedicated to the
                    > > > varieties of nondual spirituality.
                    > > >
                    > > > You are cordially invited and warmly welcome to
                    > > > subscribe to a new list on Yahoo Groups:
                    > > >
                    > > > Erotic Nonduality
                    > > >
                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eroticnonduality
                    > > >
                    > > > A sex-positive list celebrating and exploring the
                    > > > relationship between sexuality, the erotic and
                    > > > nonduality.
                    > > >
                    > > > Don't be bashful.
                    > > >
                    > > > Come as you are.
                    > > >
                    > > > Love,
                    > > >
                    > > > JP
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > devi: jp, are you that ignorant about sex that you have to talk
                    about
                    > > it with other people?
                    >
                    > What an outlandish and irresponsible statement to
                    > make, Devi.
                    >
                    > I could ask you: "Are you so ignorant about
                    > people, that you have to ask other people
                    > about them?", and the answer would obviously
                    > be "yes".
                    >
                    > Get a clue, Devi.
                    >
                    > The nice thing about lava-lamps, is that
                    > they just sit there quietly, bubbling their
                    > blobs... their arisings seen, silently...
                    >
                    >
                    > ==GP==

                    devi: yes i give a good silent darshan, bless you gene, but thats
                    besides the point...from my point of view, inviting a group of semi-
                    strangers, with the majority of them older females, mothers,on a
                    spiritual path into a club to talk about sex is, is well, the best
                    word i can think of without offending is ignorant...and we're not
                    supposed to make personal attackes, so you never really got to hear
                    all my outlandish and irresposible ideas.lucky for me.i was sooooo
                    surprised to see jerry katz embrace the club, my evalution of his
                    *character* just went down the *proverbial drain*
                  • devianandi
                    ... devi: the question is, can jp rise at all and how long will it last...
                    Message 9 of 20 , Nov 5, 2003
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                      >
                      > It will be interesting to see what comes from JP's club.
                      > Will it be more veils, or more views? Will it further a greater
                      > understanding within community, and of oneself? Will JP rise
                      > to the role of moderator, and support honest and even 'safe'
                      > exploration and sharing? This all remains to be seen...
                      > until then, it seems premature to label it as 'sleazy',
                      > or anything else... until then, and perhaps even then,
                      > any label would be pure projection, more a reflection of
                      > one's preferences, than the facts of the club.
                      >
                      > Nina

                      devi: the question is, can jp rise at all and how long will it last...
                    • babspiscot
                      dear Devi I m sorry to read your comments now and before. You see, i am an older woman, mother, on a spiritual path. But nevertheless i am interested in my
                      Message 10 of 20 , Nov 5, 2003
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                        dear Devi
                        I'm sorry to read your comments now and before. You see, i am an
                        older woman, mother, on a spiritual path. But nevertheless i am
                        interested in my sexuality - actually the spiritual path implies, for
                        me at least, (re)discovering my sexuality and finding a more
                        rewarding way to integrate it into my emotional and spiritual world.
                        I find it extremely non-spiritual to consider that older women and/or
                        mothers should deny that sexuality is part of their wholeness.
                        Recognizing that i am also a sexual being is simply natural, it has
                        nothing to do with lewdness or pornography or whatever. And believe
                        me, i fully enjoy my path of sexual discovery, without feeling
                        lesser, dirtier, it is just part of the natural me. It's that simple.
                        And jp's group is wonderful, erotic and decent in the same time, even
                        more, it is making me completely safe there.
                        I hope i didn't offend anybody with my comments.
                        Take care,
                        Edith

                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
                        <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Poole"
                        > <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
                        > > > devianandi <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                        > > > > JP > <jppoffandi@y...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > > > Dear Friends
                        > > > >
                        > > > > A deep bow of gratitude and thanks to beloved
                        > > > > Jerry Katz of NDS (http://www.nonduality.com),
                        > > > > pioneering visionary of all things Nondual on the
                        > > > > Net.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > His example of celebrating and encouraging
                        > > > > diverse voices, his work of loving service and
                        > > > > devotion have inspired many people to create
                        > > > > internet communities and lists dedicated to the
                        > > > > varieties of nondual spirituality.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > You are cordially invited and warmly welcome to
                        > > > > subscribe to a new list on Yahoo Groups:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Erotic Nonduality
                        > > > >
                        > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eroticnonduality
                        > > > >
                        > > > > A sex-positive list celebrating and exploring the
                        > > > > relationship between sexuality, the erotic and
                        > > > > nonduality.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Don't be bashful.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Come as you are.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Love,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > JP
                        > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > devi: jp, are you that ignorant about sex that you have to talk
                        > about
                        > > > it with other people?
                        > >
                        > > What an outlandish and irresponsible statement to
                        > > make, Devi.
                        > >
                        > > I could ask you: "Are you so ignorant about
                        > > people, that you have to ask other people
                        > > about them?", and the answer would obviously
                        > > be "yes".
                        > >
                        > > Get a clue, Devi.
                        > >
                        > > The nice thing about lava-lamps, is that
                        > > they just sit there quietly, bubbling their
                        > > blobs... their arisings seen, silently...
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ==GP==
                        >
                        > devi: yes i give a good silent darshan, bless you gene, but thats
                        > besides the point...from my point of view, inviting a group of semi-
                        > strangers, with the majority of them older females, mothers,on a
                        > spiritual path into a club to talk about sex is, is well, the best
                        > word i can think of without offending is ignorant...and we're not
                        > supposed to make personal attackes, so you never really got to hear
                        > all my outlandish and irresposible ideas.lucky for me.i was sooooo
                        > surprised to see jerry katz embrace the club, my evalution of his
                        > *character* just went down the *proverbial drain*
                      • Gene Poole
                        ... There you go again, Devi. On what basis do you make such condemnations? Are you the standard by which we should all live? Something you do not know,
                        Message 11 of 20 , Nov 5, 2003
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                          > devianandi <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                          > > "Gene Poole" > <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
                          > > > devianandi <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                          > > > > JP > <jppoffandi@y...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > > > Dear Friends
                          > > > >
                          > > > > A deep bow of gratitude and thanks to beloved
                          > > > > Jerry Katz of NDS (http://www.nonduality.com),
                          > > > > pioneering visionary of all things Nondual on the
                          > > > > Net.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > His example of celebrating and encouraging
                          > > > > diverse voices, his work of loving service and
                          > > > > devotion have inspired many people to create
                          > > > > internet communities and lists dedicated to the
                          > > > > varieties of nondual spirituality.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > You are cordially invited and warmly welcome to
                          > > > > subscribe to a new list on Yahoo Groups:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Erotic Nonduality
                          > > > >
                          > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eroticnonduality
                          > > > >
                          > > > > A sex-positive list celebrating and exploring the
                          > > > > relationship between sexuality, the erotic and
                          > > > > nonduality.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Don't be bashful.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Come as you are.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Love,
                          > > > >
                          > > > > JP
                          > > > >
                          > >
                          > > > devi: jp, are you that ignorant about sex that you have to talk
                          > about
                          > > > it with other people?
                          > >
                          > > What an outlandish and irresponsible statement to
                          > > make, Devi.
                          > >
                          > > I could ask you: "Are you so ignorant about
                          > > people, that you have to ask other people
                          > > about them?", and the answer would obviously
                          > > be "yes".
                          > >
                          > > Get a clue, Devi.
                          > >
                          > > The nice thing about lava-lamps, is that
                          > > they just sit there quietly, bubbling their
                          > > blobs... their arisings seen, silently...
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ==GP==
                          >
                          > devi: yes i give a good silent darshan, bless you gene, but thats
                          > besides the point...from my point of view, inviting a group of semi-
                          > strangers, with the majority of them older females, mothers,on a
                          > spiritual path into a club to talk about sex is, is well, the best
                          > word i can think of without offending is ignorant...and we're not
                          > supposed to make personal attackes, so you never really got to hear
                          > all my outlandish and irresposible ideas.lucky for me.i was sooooo
                          > surprised to see jerry katz embrace the club, my evalution of his
                          > *character* just went down the *proverbial drain*

                          There you 'go' again, Devi.

                          On what basis do you make such condemnations?

                          Are you the 'standard' by which we should all live?

                          Something you do not know, but which I will now
                          tell you: There are no standards.

                          There Is No Law

                          All of that is purely human invention; and you
                          continually reveal yourself to be slave to the
                          invention of humans.... no different than 'addiction'
                          to anything else...

                          Do you really think yourself better, than the one
                          who made you, and gave you sexuality, and
                          (heaven forbid!) genitals?

                          It is all about choice, Devi... not 'law'.


                          ==Gene Poole==
                        • devianandi
                          ... for ... world. ... and/or ... simple. ... even ... devi: i have no idea what to say to you....except, i expressed myself and you expressed yourself,,you
                          Message 12 of 20 , Nov 5, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            > dear Devi
                            > I'm sorry to read your comments now and before. You see, i am an
                            > older woman, mother, on a spiritual path. But nevertheless i am
                            > interested in my sexuality - actually the spiritual path implies,
                            for
                            > me at least, (re)discovering my sexuality and finding a more
                            > rewarding way to integrate it into my emotional and spiritual
                            world.
                            > I find it extremely non-spiritual to consider that older women
                            and/or
                            > mothers should deny that sexuality is part of their wholeness.
                            > Recognizing that i am also a sexual being is simply natural, it has
                            > nothing to do with lewdness or pornography or whatever. And believe
                            > me, i fully enjoy my path of sexual discovery, without feeling
                            > lesser, dirtier, it is just part of the natural me. It's that
                            simple.
                            > And jp's group is wonderful, erotic and decent in the same time,
                            even
                            > more, it is making me completely safe there.
                            > I hope i didn't offend anybody with my comments.
                            > Take care,
                            > Edith
                            >
                            devi: i have no idea what to say to you....except, i expressed myself
                            and you expressed yourself,,you got offended at what i said and i got
                            creepy feeling that jp invited strange woman me included into a
                            sexually oriented group grope..enjoy yourself...smiles
                          • Jason Fishman
                            Yes, choosing not to respond would be a good indicator that your not interested :) Calling someone ignorant for posting an invitation openly, doesn t show the
                            Message 13 of 20 , Nov 5, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Yes, choosing not to respond would be a good indicator that your not interested :) Calling someone ignorant for posting an invitation openly, doesn't show the inviter as ignorant, but it may make the one denouncing them, as such, a pretty good case for ignorance.
                               
                              Peace and Love

                              Gene Poole <gene_poole@...> wrote:
                              > devianandi <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                              > > "Gene Poole"  > <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
                              > > > devianandi <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                              > > > > JP  > <jppoffandi@y...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > > > Dear Friends
                              > > > >
                              > > > > A deep bow of gratitude and thanks to beloved
                              > > > > Jerry Katz of NDS (http://www.nonduality.com),
                              > > > > pioneering visionary of all things Nondual on the
                              > > > > Net.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > His example of celebrating and encouraging
                              > > > > diverse voices, his work of loving service and
                              > > > > devotion have inspired many people to create
                              > > > > internet communities and lists dedicated to the
                              > > > > varieties of nondual spirituality.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > You are cordially invited and warmly welcome to
                              > > > > subscribe to a new list on Yahoo Groups:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Erotic Nonduality
                              > > > >
                              > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eroticnonduality
                              > > > >
                              > > > > A sex-positive list celebrating and exploring the
                              > > > > relationship between sexuality, the erotic and
                              > > > > nonduality.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Don't be bashful.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Come as you are.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Love,
                              > > > >
                              > > > > JP
                              > > > >
                              > >
                              > > > devi: jp, are you that ignorant about sex that you have to talk
                              > about
                              > > > it with other people?
                              > >
                              > > What an outlandish and irresponsible statement to
                              > > make, Devi.
                              > >
                              > > I could ask you: "Are you so ignorant about
                              > > people, that you have to ask other people
                              > > about them?", and the answer would obviously
                              > > be "yes".
                              > >
                              > > Get a clue, Devi.
                              > >
                              > > The nice thing about lava-lamps, is that
                              > > they just sit  there quietly, bubbling their
                              > > blobs... their arisings seen, silently...
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ==GP==
                              >
                              > devi: yes i give a good silent darshan, bless you gene,  but thats
                              > besides the point...from my point of view, inviting a group of semi-
                              > strangers, with the majority of them older females, mothers,on a
                              > spiritual path into a club to talk about sex is, is well, the best
                              > word i can think of without offending is ignorant...and we're not
                              > supposed to make personal attackes, so you never really got to hear
                              > all my outlandish and irresposible ideas.lucky for me.i was sooooo
                              > surprised to see jerry katz embrace the club, my evalution of his
                              > *character* just went down the *proverbial drain*

                              There you 'go' again, Devi.

                              On what basis do you make such condemnations?

                              Are you the 'standard' by which we should all live?

                              Something you do not know, but which I will now
                              tell you: There are no standards.

                              There  Is  No  Law

                              All of that is purely human invention; and you
                              continually reveal yourself to be slave to the
                              invention of humans.... no different than 'addiction'
                              to anything else...

                              Do you really think yourself better, than the one
                              who made you, and gave you sexuality, and
                              (heaven forbid!) genitals?

                              It is all about choice, Devi... not 'law'.


                              ==Gene Poole==



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                            • devianandi
                              ... devi: there she goes... ... devi: personal preference ... devi: your taking my words much to seriously, and gene, i would never in a million years tell you
                              Message 14 of 20 , Nov 5, 2003
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                                >
                                > There you 'go' again, Devi.

                                devi: there she goes...
                                >
                                > On what basis do you make such condemnations?

                                devi: personal preference
                                >
                                > Are you the 'standard' by which we should all live?

                                devi: your taking my words much to seriously, and gene, i would never
                                in a million years tell you that you should use me as a standard...
                                >
                                > Something you do not know, but which I will now
                                > tell you: There are no standards.

                                devi: i think your right, but i don't believe you walk the talk, if
                                you did, we wouldn't be having this conversation
                                >
                                > There Is No Law

                                devi: right back atcha
                                >
                                > All of that is purely human invention;

                                devi: what is not human invention


                                and you
                                > continually reveal yourself to be slave to the
                                > invention of humans.... no different than 'addiction'
                                > to anything else...

                                devi: if i were to ever give you an indepth look into the life of
                                what has been me i imagine that you might have a different view...
                                >
                                > Do you really think yourself better, than the one
                                > who made you, and gave you sexuality, and
                                > (heaven forbid!) genitals?

                                devi: gene, is that *enlightenement*? ..to think that there is a
                                someone else who made me?
                                >
                                > It is all about choice, Devi... not 'law'.
                                >
                                >
                                > ==Gene Poole==

                                devi: like i quoted in another group today,,,from baba hari dass...we
                                are like goats tied to a fence with a long rope...


                                so, you want to have a contest...see who can talk about genitals the
                                best and the longest?
                              • devianandi
                                You see, i am an ... for ... world. ... and/or ... simple. ... even ... devi: dear edith, there is a tv program called sex in the city on hbo...its about 4
                                Message 15 of 20 , Nov 5, 2003
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  You see, i am an
                                  > older woman, mother, on a spiritual path. But nevertheless i am
                                  > interested in my sexuality - actually the spiritual path implies,
                                  for
                                  > me at least, (re)discovering my sexuality and finding a more
                                  > rewarding way to integrate it into my emotional and spiritual
                                  world.
                                  > I find it extremely non-spiritual to consider that older women
                                  and/or
                                  > mothers should deny that sexuality is part of their wholeness.
                                  > Recognizing that i am also a sexual being is simply natural, it has
                                  > nothing to do with lewdness or pornography or whatever. And believe
                                  > me, i fully enjoy my path of sexual discovery, without feeling
                                  > lesser, dirtier, it is just part of the natural me. It's that
                                  simple.
                                  > And jp's group is wonderful, erotic and decent in the same time,
                                  even
                                  > more, it is making me completely safe there.
                                  > I hope i didn't offend anybody with my comments.
                                  > Take care,
                                  > Edith

                                  devi: dear edith, there is a tv program called "sex in the city" on
                                  hbo...its about 4 very sexually active women, best friends, ...now,
                                  in case you don't know the program, there is a woman who fucks every
                                  good looking man she meets, and even sometimes the not-so goodlooking
                                  men..thats about all she does on the program...anyway, i keep hearing
                                  her saying to me to say to you " get a vibrator, honey"...i had to
                                  come back to tell you

                                  smiles

                                  i hope i didn't offentd anyone, and remember what our resident geene
                                  poole says,,there are no laws...
                                  >
                                • Gene Poole
                                  ... Do you prefer to condemn? That... is a big problem . ... If they are not to be taken seriously, why emit them? Is not your call, to condemn JP s sex talk
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Nov 5, 2003
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                                    >devianandi <no_reply@y...> wrote:

                                    >>(in reply to Gene, who said:)
                                    > >
                                    > > There you 'go' again, Devi.
                                    >
                                    > devi: there she goes...

                                    > > On what basis do you make such condemnations?
                                    >
                                    > devi: personal preference

                                    Do you prefer to condemn?

                                    That... is a big 'problem'.

                                    > > Are you the 'standard' by which we should all live?
                                    >
                                    > devi: your taking my words much to seriously,

                                    If they are not to be taken seriously,
                                    why emit them?

                                    Is not your call, to condemn JP's sex talk group,
                                    to be taken seriously? Or do you issue such
                                    judgments casually?

                                    > and gene, i would never
                                    > in a million years tell you that you should use me as a standard...

                                    Strange... because as a reader of this list,
                                    you already did tell me just that... and I am
                                    here to tell you, that I not only disagree with
                                    your judgment/condemnation, but that I also
                                    warn you of a potentially fatal flaw in your
                                    handling of yourself... how you gate your own
                                    energies, in reaction to what you observe, or
                                    think that you observe...

                                    > > Something you do not know, but which I will now
                                    > > tell you: There are no standards.
                                    >
                                    > devi: i think your right, but i don't believe you walk the talk, if
                                    > you did, we wouldn't be having this conversation

                                    'We' are having this conversation, because I care to
                                    do so... how about you?

                                    > > There Is No Law
                                    >
                                    > devi: right back atcha

                                    I detect lack of understanding of what I said...

                                    > > All of that is purely human invention;
                                    >
                                    > devi: what is not human invention

                                    What invented humans, is not a human
                                    invention...

                                    > and you
                                    > > continually reveal yourself to be slave to the
                                    > > invention of humans.... no different than 'addiction'
                                    > > to anything else...
                                    >
                                    > devi: if i were to ever give you an indepth look into the life of
                                    > what has been me i imagine that you might have a different view...

                                    Still, a slave to circumstances... such as the
                                    emission of condemnations... and on a regular,
                                    predictable basis, as well...

                                    > > Do you really think yourself better, than the one
                                    > > who made you, and gave you sexuality, and
                                    > > (heaven forbid!) genitals?
                                    >
                                    > devi: gene, is that *enlightenement*? ..to think that there is a
                                    > someone else who made me?

                                    Not 'someone' in the sense you seem to imply, Devi

                                    > > It is all about choice, Devi... not 'law'.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ==Gene Poole==
                                    >
                                    > devi: like i quoted in another group today,,,from baba hari dass...we
                                    > are like goats tied to a fence with a long rope...

                                    Can you exist, without the constraint of the rope?

                                    > so, you want to have a contest...see who can talk about genitals the
                                    > best and the longest?

                                    That is not the topic here. Elsewhere, it is the topic...

                                    Meditation on the 'blank screen' of empty awareness itself,
                                    will resolve for you, the issues we are discussing...


                                    ==Gene Poole==
                                  • Swami-G
                                    Edith ... myself and you expressed yourself,,you got offended at what i said and i got creepy feeling that jp invited strange woman me included into a
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Nov 5, 2003
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                                      Edith
                                      > >
                                      > devi: i have no idea what to say to you....except, i expressed
                                      myself and you expressed yourself,,you got offended at what i
                                      said and i got creepy feeling that jp invited strange woman me
                                      included into a sexually oriented group grope..enjoy
                                      yourself...smiles

                                      SG: that is an imagination and coloring .....

                                      there was only an invitation to a new group..... yes there is a
                                      sexual overtone ....

                                      but nothing was said about a come and get a group grope .......
                                      that is reading between the lines and only stems from a run
                                      away imagination.......

                                      let's try and see it without a coloring ..... there was an invitation
                                      posted to a group .... we don't have to chase after it nor fight it
                                      ..... let it remain for those who wish to follow that avenue.......
                                    • devianandi
                                      ... devi: oh, like knowing what you were doing over in the other group was imagination and coloring? ... a ... devi: i think your being naive ... invitation
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Nov 5, 2003
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                                        > > devi: i have no idea what to say to you....except, i expressed
                                        > myself and you expressed yourself,,you got offended at what i
                                        > said and i got creepy feeling that jp invited strange woman me
                                        > included into a sexually oriented group grope..enjoy
                                        > yourself...smiles
                                        >
                                        > SG: that is an imagination and coloring .....

                                        devi: oh, like knowing what you were doing over in the other group
                                        was imagination and coloring?
                                        >
                                        > there was only an invitation to a new group..... yes there is
                                        a
                                        > sexual overtone ....
                                        >
                                        > but nothing was said about a come and get a group grope .......
                                        > that is reading between the lines and only stems from a run
                                        > away imagination.......

                                        devi: i think your being naive
                                        >
                                        > let's try and see it without a coloring ..... there was an
                                        invitation
                                        > posted to a group .... we don't have to chase after it nor fight
                                        it
                                        > ..... let it remain for those who wish to follow that avenue.......

                                        devi: like i said, if you enjoy that sort of thing go for it, it
                                        still grosses me out and i would never stay in it...how much you
                                        wanna bet that porn will be introduced at some point...? say 10
                                        dollars
                                      • devianandi
                                        ... devi: it seems to me that you are condeming me. ... devi: oh really and I am ... devi: thats fine but that I also ... devi: interesting ... if ... devi: we
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Nov 5, 2003
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                                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Poole"
                                          <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
                                          > >devianandi <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > >>(in reply to Gene, who said:)
                                          > > >
                                          > > > There you 'go' again, Devi.
                                          > >
                                          > > devi: there she goes...
                                          >
                                          > > > On what basis do you make such condemnations?
                                          > >
                                          > > devi: personal preference
                                          >
                                          > Do you prefer to condemn?
                                          >
                                          > That... is a big 'problem'.

                                          devi: it seems to me that you are condeming me.
                                          >
                                          > > >
                                          > Strange... because as a reader of this list,
                                          > you already did tell me just that...
                                          devi: oh really

                                          and I am
                                          > here to tell you, that I not only disagree with
                                          > your judgment/condemnation,

                                          devi: thats fine


                                          but that I also
                                          > warn you of a potentially fatal flaw in your
                                          > handling of yourself... how you gate your own
                                          > energies, in reaction to what you observe, or
                                          > think that you observe...

                                          devi: interesting
                                          >
                                          > > > Something you do not know, but which I will now
                                          > > > tell you: There are no standards.
                                          > >
                                          > > devi: i think your right, but i don't believe you walk the talk,
                                          if
                                          > > you did, we wouldn't be having this conversation
                                          >
                                          > 'We' are having this conversation, because I care to
                                          > do so... how about you?

                                          devi: we are having this conversation becasue you don't walk your
                                          talk and i'm just pointing that out to you
                                          >
                                          > > > There Is No Law
                                          > >
                                          > > devi: right back atcha
                                          >
                                          > I detect lack of understanding of what I said...

                                          devi: thats ok, *There is No Law* is not anything so profound that i
                                          need to explore what you mean by it..anymore than what i already
                                          think you mean
                                          >
                                          > > > All of that is purely human invention;
                                          > >
                                          > > devi: what is not human invention
                                          >
                                          > What invented humans, is not a human
                                          > invention...

                                          devi: humans were never invented, the idea was is and always will be
                                          inherent in what is
                                          >
                                          > > and you
                                          > > > continually reveal yourself to be slave to the
                                          > > > invention of humans.... no different than 'addiction'
                                          > > > to anything else...
                                          > >
                                          > > devi: if i were to ever give you an indepth look into the life of
                                          > > what has been me i imagine that you might have a different view...
                                          >
                                          > Still, a slave to circumstances... such as the
                                          > emission of condemnations... and on a regular,
                                          > predictable basis, as well...

                                          devi: your like the blind man who touches the elephant and thinks he
                                          knows the whole elephant..
                                          >
                                          > > > Do you really think yourself better, than the one
                                          > > > who made you, and gave you sexuality, and
                                          > > > (heaven forbid!) genitals?
                                          > >
                                          > > devi: gene, is that *enlightenement*? ..to think that there is a
                                          > > someone else who made me?
                                          >
                                          > Not 'someone' in the sense you seem to imply, Devi

                                          devi: ok gene, your on the stage now...tell us in what sense did you
                                          imply a *someone*
                                          >
                                          > > > It is all about choice, Devi... not 'law'.
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > ==Gene Poole==
                                          > >
                                          > > devi: like i quoted in another group today,,,from baba hari
                                          dass...we
                                          > > are like goats tied to a fence with a long rope...
                                          >
                                          > Can you exist, without the constraint of the rope?
                                          devi: i have at times..it doesn't seem to suit my purposes now
                                          >
                                          > > so, you want to have a contest...see who can talk about genitals
                                          the
                                          > > best and the longest?
                                          >
                                          > That is not the topic here. Elsewhere, it is the topic...

                                          devi:

                                          > Meditation on the 'blank screen' of empty awareness itself,
                                          > will resolve for you, the issues we are discussing...
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ==Gene Poole==

                                          devi: i have no resolutions waiting to happen, thats your trip...you
                                          meditate on that blank screen of empty awareness, is that orange
                                          chair available for you? what does Neo stand for?
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