- Freyja,Thanks. I am hoping to hear stories from others here. I've heard many from others over the years and they never cease to fascinate me.Jim-----Original Message-----Jim,
From: carolina112900 [mailto:freyjartist@...]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 4:22 AM
Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Picture
Thank you for taking the time
to expand on these topics.
We all have a story/stories :-)
As Joan Tollifson wrote,
"Stories make apparent sense out of
what would otherwise be incomprehensible.
They give meaning and importance to the
fiction of myself and all that I identify
with: my family, my civilization, my
ethnic group, my political leanings, my
sexual orientation, my subculture, my
gender, my generation. Stories are entertaining.
God apparently enjoys drama, play, hide and seek,
lost and found.
Sometimes a story helps to expose and dissolve
limitations; sometimes it creates and reinforces
them. Stories can lull us to sleep or wake us
up, reveal truth or conceal it. The same story
can serve different functions at different moments.
It's a great art to discern when a story can serve
different functions at different moments. It's
a great art to discern when a story is breaking
open the heart and waking us up, and when it is
lulling us to sleep, perpetuating illusion and
generating suffering. Likewise, it is a
great art to discern the difference between
actuality and concept. The conceptual filters
through which we think about everything are so
ubiquitous and so seemingly real that it's easy
to mistake them for actuality. No separate,
independent, solid thing really exists, except,
apparently, in the story."
Your presence is a nice addition here.
--- In email@example.com, "jimedclark"
> Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "carolina112900"
> <freyjartist@a...> wrote:
> > --- In email@example.com, "Jim Clark" >
> Can you talk more about your knowledge that
> > psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
> > think that they mean anything other than
> > what the basic human senses provide?
> Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five senses. I
> assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be with
> regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my
> Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to my
> readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of
> events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a
> bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and that
> our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence LeShann
> pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a New
> of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly common
> among students who performed mental work under Zen Masters, for
> example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects" as
> by which our lower selves distract us from the more important goal
> the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:
> > What do you feel is the value of meditation?
> Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to bring
> us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person whose
> actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather than on
> mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the software
> engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
> our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and low
> priority interrupts.
> > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
> > assure my
> > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
> > >
> > That is interesting how you put that.
> > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
> > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
> > off as a result of your tolerance?
> > How do you know they are pissed off?
> > It is always interesting to me how we
> > interpret other's reactions.
> I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
> many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep my
> to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
> scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too
> for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with those
> who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of others,
> and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo
> more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its
> screams for acknowledgement."
> What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on which
> group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me with
> those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in the
> bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play head-games
> loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."
> > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher
> > North
> > > Whitehead:
> > >
> > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
> > satisfied
> > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
> > cherishes the
> > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge.
> > and
> > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are
> > leading
> > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty
> > barred.
> > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic
> > The
> > > Universe is vast."
> > >
> > I would love to hear more about why this
> > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
> > to you?
> For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
> themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to the
> idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find
> paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities; they
> may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
> events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They
> insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an
> of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no circumstances is
> it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
> matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I
> the same old responses I used to use when I was a well-trained
> skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal somewhere,
> it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I
> no doubt that this view is reciprocated.
> Best regards,
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- Welcome Jim, I am new to the list as well, and also live in So. CA. I
think this is going to be a great list to be part of.