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Re: Picture a miracle

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  • devianandi
    If God brings you to it, He will bring you through it. Happy moments, praise God. Difficult moments, seek God. Quiet moments, worship God. Painful moments,
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 28, 2003
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      If God brings you to it, He will bring you through it.


      Happy moments, praise God.
      Difficult moments, seek God.
      Quiet moments, worship God.
      Painful moments, trust God.
      Every moment, thank God.

      Pass this message to seven people except you and me.
      You will receive a miracle tomorrow (just do it)
    • texasbg2000
      ... gallery ... Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years ago when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and then New
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 28, 2003
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
        <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > bobby: your so inspiring...a painter
        > > > and a yogi.
        > >
        > > Thanks Devi. Here is the advice. Keep meditatiing and keep
        > > painting. If the universed wants you to get better you will.
        > >
        > > Love
        > > Bobby G.
        >
        > thanks bobby, thats good advice and i tell myself the same thing
        > quite often...like i said i really need to take some lessons and i
        > have been feeling like that for a long time, and last month, the
        > universe provided me with jeanette la cru, she's becoming a popular
        > painter here in norther california, who gave a free demo at a
        gallery
        > around here,,i stood there for about two hours just watching her
        > paint..(i was the only one)..hey are you interested in putting some
        > of your work in a prestigous gallery in a resort and spa town here?
        > i'd love to represent you in california. how about it? smiles

        Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years ago
        when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
        then New Mexico. so years later I still have that to do.

        Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there where
        you are? I still have them all, I never sell anything.
        Bobby G.
      • devianandi
        ... ago ... devi: http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/ this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take a look and see if you compare..some
        Message 3 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003
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          >
          > Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years
          ago
          > when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
          > then New Mexico. so years later I still have that to do.
          >
          > Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there where
          > you are? I still have them all, I never sell anything.
          > Bobby G.

          devi:

          http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/

          this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take a
          look and see if you compare..some of your landscapes seem *generic*,
          in other words they look like they could be california
          scenerey...thats a good thing...theres a lady named camille that
          studied for five years with your teacher henshe...why haven't you
          sold your paintings? when you paint, do you paint with the
          thought ..what will the public buy?....i noticed that you have one
          painiting, is it a mission,?,,it looked very good but i couldn't get
          it enlarged,,theres a woman here gail salituri who makes a fortune
          selling paintings of missions....are your paintings framed? do you
          have any 9x12s?
        • texasbg2000
          ... where ... a ... *generic*, ... get ... Hi Devi: Thank you for looking into that and getting the link. It is not that I never sell but I seldom do. I do
          Message 4 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
            <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years
            > ago
            > > when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
            > > then New Mexico. so years later I still have that to do.
            > >
            > > Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there
            where
            > > you are? I still have them all, I never sell anything.
            > > Bobby G.
            >
            > devi:
            >
            > http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/
            >
            > this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take
            a
            > look and see if you compare..some of your landscapes seem
            *generic*,
            > in other words they look like they could be california
            > scenerey...thats a good thing...theres a lady named camille that
            > studied for five years with your teacher henshe...why haven't you
            > sold your paintings? when you paint, do you paint with the
            > thought ..what will the public buy?....i noticed that you have one
            > painiting, is it a mission,?,,it looked very good but i couldn't
            get
            > it enlarged,,theres a woman here gail salituri who makes a fortune
            > selling paintings of missions....are your paintings framed? do you
            > have any 9x12s?

            Hi Devi:

            Thank you for looking into that and getting the link.

            It is not that I never sell but I seldom do. I do mostly commissions
            and the paintings that I post here are just for myself. I have
            gravitated more towards the painting for myself so much now that a
            gallery would be good. Things change you know and life is long. It
            is good to take new directions sometimes. Perhaps that gallery will
            want my work and I will move there for the rest of life. Who knows?

            In fact my definition of enlightenment is knowing everything is new.

            And yes I have lots of framed pieces. I made most of them. I like
            frames but I am not good at making them.

            And dozens of small pieces.

            And large ones. I will past a large on in the photos section from
            Arches.

            Thanks again for your interest.

            Love,
            Bobby G.
          • Jim Clark
            Hello group, As your newest addition to this society, I don t know much about you, but just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall attempt
            Message 5 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003
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              Hello group,

               

              As your newest addition to this society, I don't know much about you, but just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall attempt to do so.

               

              I was born in 1948, grew up in Oklahoma City, a fairly regular attendee of a Southern Baptist Church until I went away to college at the University of Texas at Austin as a Math Major. My attendance was made possible via an NROTC scholarship; thus, after graduating I served my obligatory sentence as a Naval Officer, including two tours in Viet Nam. During that period I became a fan of the writings of a various mystics, most especially Alan Watts. I spent my last tour in San Diego where I broadened my interests to other writers, including Lawrence LeShan, Jane Roberts, Edgar Cayce, Ouspenski, etc. I attended as many lectures and classes on psychic phenomenon and similar topics as I could; I also took up Yoga, studied as many religions, philosophies, and practiced as many exercises as my little mind could endure. I have had enough psychic experiences to know that they are genuine, and believe strongly in the value of meditation.

               

              I am currently a Senior Software Engineer living alone in Los Angeles, California.

               

              I have attempted through the years to be self-critical so as to assure steady, balanced, growth, yet have succeeded in experiencing my share of madness and “folly”. I continue to strive for enough stability to be meaningful, without losing the ability to explore interesting new ideas. Tolerance of everyone else’s point of view is the means by which I assure my continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.

               

              My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred North Whitehead:

              “The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-satisfied dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history cherishes the delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics and believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are the leading dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is barred. This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure. The Universe is vast.”

               

              I look forward to hearing from those of you willing to share your ideas and experiences.
               
              Jim
               -----Original Message-----
              From: texasbg2000 [mailto:Bigbobgraham@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 5:58 PM
              To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Picture

              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
              <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > > Northern Cal sounds great.  I was off to visit Oregon Four years
              > ago
              > > when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
              > > then New Mexico.  so years later I still have that to do. 
              > >
              > > Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there
              where
              > > you are?  I still have them all, I never sell anything.
              > > Bobby G.
              >
              > devi:
              >
              > http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/
              >
              > this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take
              a
              > look and see if you compare..some of your landscapes seem
              *generic*,
              > in other words they look like they could be california
              > scenerey...thats a good thing...theres a lady named camille that
              > studied for five years with your teacher henshe...why haven't you
              > sold your paintings? when you paint, do you paint with the
              > thought ..what will the public buy?....i noticed that you have one
              > painiting, is it a mission,?,,it looked very good but i couldn't
              get
              > it enlarged,,theres a woman here gail salituri who makes a fortune
              > selling paintings of missions....are your paintings framed? do you
              > have any 9x12s?

              Hi Devi:

              Thank you for looking into that and getting the link. 

              It is not that I never sell but I seldom do.  I do mostly commissions
              and the paintings that I post here are just for myself.  I have
              gravitated more towards the painting for myself so much now that a
              gallery would be good.  Things change you know and life is long.  It
              is good to take new directions sometimes.  Perhaps that gallery will
              want my work and I will move there for the rest of life.  Who knows?

              In fact my definition of enlightenment is knowing everything is new.

              And yes I have lots of framed pieces. I made most of them. I like
              frames but I am not good at making them. 

              And dozens of small pieces.

              And large ones.  I will past a large on in the photos section from
              Arches.

              Thanks again for your interest.

              Love,
              Bobby G.










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            • medit8ionsociety
              Dear Jim, I really enjoyed your intro, and appreciate all you so eloquently shared. The quote by Whitehead is new to me, and it s A quality. Actually,
              Message 6 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003
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                Dear Jim,
                I really enjoyed your intro, and appreciate all you so eloquently
                shared. The quote by Whitehead is new to me, and it's "A" quality.
                Actually, although it's very "deep", it also made me smile as I
                witnessed it bringing thoughts similar to "Tell it like it is
                brother!" to mind. Anyway, I hope this is just the start of an ongoing
                mutual exploration of consciousness evolution, or some similar
                adjective. I'm glad you're here. Welcome.
                Peace and blessings,
                Bob

                "Jim Clark" <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                > Hello group,
                >
                >
                >
                > As your newest addition to this society, I don't know much about
                you, but
                > just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall
                attempt to do
                > so.
                >
                >
                >
                > I was born in 1948, grew up in Oklahoma City, a fairly regular
                attendee of a
                > Southern Baptist Church until I went away to college at the
                University of
                > Texas at Austin as a Math Major. My attendance was made possible via an
                > NROTC scholarship; thus, after graduating I served my obligatory
                sentence as
                > a Naval Officer, including two tours in Viet Nam. During that period I
                > became a fan of the writings of a various mystics, most especially Alan
                > Watts. I spent my last tour in San Diego where I broadened my
                interests to
                > other writers, including Lawrence LeShan, Jane Roberts, Edgar Cayce,
                > Ouspenski, etc. I attended as many lectures and classes on psychic
                > phenomenon and similar topics as I could; I also took up Yoga,
                studied as
                > many religions, philosophies, and practiced as many exercises as my
                little
                > mind could endure. I have had enough psychic experiences to know
                that they
                > are genuine, and believe strongly in the value of meditation.
                >
                >
                >
                > I am currently a Senior Software Engineer living alone in Los Angeles,
                > California.
                >
                >
                >
                > I have attempted through the years to be self-critical so as to assure
                > steady, balanced, growth, yet have succeeded in experiencing my share of
                > madness and "folly". I continue to strive for enough stability to be
                > meaningful, without losing the ability to explore interesting new ideas.
                > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by which I
                assure my
                > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                >
                >
                >
                > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred North
                > Whitehead:
                >
                > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-satisfied
                > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history cherishes the
                > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics and
                > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are the
                leading
                > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is
                barred.
                > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure. The
                > Universe is vast."
                >
                >
                >
                > I look forward to hearing from those of you willing to share your
                ideas and
                > experiences.
                >
                > Jim
                >
              • carolina112900
                ... Hello Jim, I enjoyed reading your introduction and glad you shared some of your story. ... you, but ... attempt to do ... attendee of a ... University of
                Message 7 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
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                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark"
                  <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                  > Hello group,
                  >

                  Hello Jim,

                  I enjoyed reading your introduction
                  and glad you shared some of your
                  story.

                  >
                  >
                  > As your newest addition to this society, I don't know much about
                  you, but
                  > just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall
                  attempt to do
                  > so.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I was born in 1948, grew up in Oklahoma City, a fairly regular
                  attendee of a
                  > Southern Baptist Church until I went away to college at the
                  University of
                  > Texas at Austin as a Math Major. My attendance was made possible
                  via an
                  > NROTC scholarship; thus, after graduating I served my obligatory
                  sentence as
                  > a Naval Officer, including two tours in Viet Nam. During that
                  period I
                  > became a fan of the writings of a various mystics, most especially
                  Alan
                  > Watts. I spent my last tour in San Diego where I broadened my
                  interests to
                  > other writers, including Lawrence LeShan, Jane Roberts, Edgar Cayce,
                  > Ouspenski, etc. I attended as many lectures and classes on psychic
                  > phenomenon and similar topics as I could; I also took up Yoga,
                  studied as
                  > many religions, philosophies, and practiced as many exercises as my
                  little
                  > mind could endure. I have had enough psychic experiences to know
                  that they
                  > are genuine, and believe strongly in the value of meditation.
                  >


                  Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                  psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                  think that they mean anything other than
                  what the basic human senses provide?

                  What do you feel is the value of meditation?


                  >
                  >
                  > I am currently a Senior Software Engineer living alone in Los
                  Angeles,
                  > California.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I have attempted through the years to be self-critical so as to
                  assure
                  > steady, balanced, growth, yet have succeeded in experiencing my
                  share of
                  > madness and "folly". I continue to strive for enough stability to be
                  > meaningful, without losing the ability to explore interesting new
                  ideas.

                  > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by which I
                  assure my
                  > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                  >

                  That is interesting how you put that.
                  And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                  Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                  off as a result of your tolerance?
                  How do you know they are pissed off?
                  It is always interesting to me how we
                  interpret other's reactions.



                  >
                  >
                  > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred
                  North
                  > Whitehead:
                  >
                  > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                  satisfied
                  > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                  cherishes the
                  > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics
                  and
                  > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are the
                  leading
                  > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is
                  barred.
                  > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure.
                  The
                  > Universe is vast."
                  >

                  I would love to hear more about why this
                  is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                  to you?

                  Thank you and welcome, Jim

                  blessings,

                  Freyja


                  >
                  >
                  > I look forward to hearing from those of you willing to share your
                  ideas and
                  > experiences.
                  >
                  > Jim
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  Service.
                • Swami-G
                  ... which I assure my continued ability to piss virtually everyone off. SG: why do you see this as an ability to piss everyone off ? this is an interesting
                  Message 8 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
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                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim
                    Clark" <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                    > Hello group,
                    >

                    > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                    which I assure my continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.

                    SG: why do you see this as an ability to piss everyone off ?

                    this is an interesting statement .....

                    Om in love
                  • jimedclark
                    Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome. ... Can you talk more about your knowledge that ... Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five
                    Message 9 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
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                      Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.

                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "carolina112900"
                      <freyjartist@a...> wrote:

                      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark" >
                      Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                      > psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                      > think that they mean anything other than
                      > what the basic human senses provide?

                      Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five senses. I
                      assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be with
                      regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my mind.

                      Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to my
                      readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of these
                      events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a much
                      bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and that
                      our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence LeShann
                      pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a New Theory
                      of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly common
                      among students who performed mental work under Zen Masters, for
                      example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects" as means
                      by which our lower selves distract us from the more important goal of
                      the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:

                      > What do you feel is the value of meditation?

                      Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to bring
                      us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person whose
                      actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather than on
                      mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the software
                      engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                      our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and low
                      priority interrupts.


                      > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by which
                      I
                      > assure my
                      > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                      > >
                      >
                      > That is interesting how you put that.
                      > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                      > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                      > off as a result of your tolerance?
                      > How do you know they are pissed off?
                      > It is always interesting to me how we
                      > interpret other's reactions.

                      I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                      many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep my ideas
                      to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                      scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too mystical
                      for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with those
                      who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of others,
                      and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo said, "The
                      more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its opposite
                      screams for acknowledgement."

                      What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on which
                      group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me with
                      those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in the Easter
                      bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play head-games speaking
                      loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."

                      > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred
                      > North
                      > > Whitehead:
                      > >
                      > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                      > satisfied
                      > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                      > cherishes the
                      > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics
                      > and
                      > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are
                      the
                      > leading
                      > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is
                      > barred.
                      > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure.
                      > The
                      > > Universe is vast."
                      > >
                      >
                      > I would love to hear more about why this
                      > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                      > to you?
                      >
                      For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                      themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to the
                      idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find new
                      paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities; they
                      may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                      events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They then
                      insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an extension
                      of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no circumstances is
                      it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                      matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I hear
                      the same old responses I used to use when I was a well-trained
                      skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal somewhere,
                      it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I have
                      no doubt that this view is reciprocated.

                      Best regards,

                      Jim
                    • Swami-G
                      ... carolina112900 ... Clark ... senses. I ... with ... mind. ... my ... these ... much ... that ... LeShann ... New Theory ... common ... Masters, for
                      Message 10 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
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                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                        "jimedclark" <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                        > Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.
                        >
                        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                        "carolina112900"
                        > <freyjartist@a...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim
                        Clark" >
                        > Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                        > > psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                        > > think that they mean anything other than
                        > > what the basic human senses provide?
                        >
                        > Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five
                        senses. I
                        > assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be
                        with
                        > regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my
                        mind.
                        >
                        > Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to
                        my
                        > readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of
                        these
                        > events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a
                        much
                        > bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and
                        that
                        > our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence
                        LeShann
                        > pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a
                        New Theory
                        > of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly
                        common
                        > among students who performed mental work under Zen
                        Masters, for
                        > example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects"
                        as means
                        > by which our lower selves distract us from the more important
                        goal of
                        > the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:
                        >
                        > > What do you feel is the value of meditation?
                        >
                        > Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to
                        bring
                        > us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person
                        whose
                        > actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather
                        than on
                        > mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the
                        software
                        > engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                        > our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and
                        low
                        > priority interrupts.
                        >
                        >
                        > > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                        which
                        > I
                        > > assure my
                        > > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > That is interesting how you put that.
                        > > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                        > > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                        > > off as a result of your tolerance?
                        > > How do you know they are pissed off?
                        > > It is always interesting to me how we
                        > > interpret other's reactions.
                        >
                        > I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                        > many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep
                        my ideas
                        > to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                        > scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too mystical
                        > for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with
                        those
                        > who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of
                        others,
                        > and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo
                        said, "The
                        > more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its
                        opposite
                        > screams for acknowledgement."
                        >
                        > What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on
                        which
                        > group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me
                        with
                        > those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in
                        the Easter
                        > bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play
                        head-games speaking
                        > loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."
                        >
                        > > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher
                        Alfred
                        > > North
                        > > > Whitehead:
                        > > >
                        > > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the
                        self-
                        > > satisfied
                        > > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                        > > cherishes the
                        > > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge.
                        Skeptics
                        > > and
                        > > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics
                        are
                        > the
                        > > leading
                        > > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental
                        novelty is
                        > > barred.
                        > > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic
                        adventure.
                        > > The
                        > > > Universe is vast."
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > I would love to hear more about why this
                        > > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                        > > to you?
                        > >
                        > For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                        > themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to
                        the
                        > idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find
                        new
                        > paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities;
                        they
                        > may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                        > events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They
                        then
                        > insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an
                        extension
                        > of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no
                        circumstances is
                        > it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                        > matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I
                        hear
                        > the same old responses I used to use when I was a
                        well-trained
                        > skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal
                        somewhere,
                        > it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I
                        have
                        > no doubt that this view is reciprocated.
                        >
                        > Best regards,
                        >
                        > Jim


                        SG: wherever your attention is pointing that is the avenue
                        open for exploration..... from that point of openness
                        the creative mind expands.......

                        or the avenue willing to be heard as it is the point of
                        referance for that conditional self image ........ if it holds
                        ones self image in place then it is the *right* one......

                        sometimes one exchanges one set of conditioned
                        response for another......

                        eventually they begin to crumble in the light of day and
                        a whole new paradigm emerges .......

                        as long as revolving phenomena is the focal point
                        then there is no stable point of referance other than the
                        current set of belief's and one is apt
                        to do this motion of standing on a roller board
                        identity while juggling the latest mental conceptulization...

                        meditation stops the frenetic action..... the juggling
                        stops....... one steps off the board and begins to
                        see what has always been right here ...... it comes into
                        focus and clarity now that the attention isn't being
                        diverted to image balance or mental jugglings......

                        what is left ? just walking and enjoying the freedom
                        of being unencumbered by the juggling act ......
                      • carolina112900
                        Jim, Thank you for taking the time to expand on these topics. We all have a story/stories :-) As Joan Tollifson wrote, Stories make apparent sense out of what
                        Message 11 of 21 , Oct 31, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Jim,

                          Thank you for taking the time
                          to expand on these topics.

                          We all have a story/stories :-)

                          As Joan Tollifson wrote,

                          "Stories make apparent sense out of
                          what would otherwise be incomprehensible.
                          They give meaning and importance to the
                          fiction of myself and all that I identify
                          with: my family, my civilization, my
                          ethnic group, my political leanings, my
                          sexual orientation, my subculture, my
                          gender, my generation. Stories are entertaining.
                          God apparently enjoys drama, play, hide and seek,
                          lost and found.

                          Sometimes a story helps to expose and dissolve
                          limitations; sometimes it creates and reinforces
                          them. Stories can lull us to sleep or wake us
                          up, reveal truth or conceal it. The same story
                          can serve different functions at different moments.
                          It's a great art to discern when a story can serve
                          different functions at different moments. It's
                          a great art to discern when a story is breaking
                          open the heart and waking us up, and when it is
                          lulling us to sleep, perpetuating illusion and
                          generating suffering. Likewise, it is a
                          great art to discern the difference between
                          actuality and concept. The conceptual filters
                          through which we think about everything are so
                          ubiquitous and so seemingly real that it's easy
                          to mistake them for actuality. No separate,
                          independent, solid thing really exists, except,
                          apparently, in the story."


                          Your presence is a nice addition here.

                          cheers,
                          Freyja


                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jimedclark"
                          <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                          > Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.
                          >
                          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "carolina112900"
                          > <freyjartist@a...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark" >
                          > Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                          > > psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                          > > think that they mean anything other than
                          > > what the basic human senses provide?
                          >
                          > Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five senses. I
                          > assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be with
                          > regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my
                          mind.
                          >
                          > Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to my
                          > readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of
                          these
                          > events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a
                          much
                          > bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and that
                          > our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence LeShann
                          > pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a New
                          Theory
                          > of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly common
                          > among students who performed mental work under Zen Masters, for
                          > example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects" as
                          means
                          > by which our lower selves distract us from the more important goal
                          of
                          > the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:
                          >
                          > > What do you feel is the value of meditation?
                          >
                          > Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to bring
                          > us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person whose
                          > actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather than on
                          > mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the software
                          > engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                          > our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and low
                          > priority interrupts.
                          >
                          >
                          > > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                          which
                          > I
                          > > assure my
                          > > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > That is interesting how you put that.
                          > > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                          > > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                          > > off as a result of your tolerance?
                          > > How do you know they are pissed off?
                          > > It is always interesting to me how we
                          > > interpret other's reactions.
                          >
                          > I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                          > many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep my
                          ideas
                          > to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                          > scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too
                          mystical
                          > for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with those
                          > who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of others,
                          > and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo
                          said, "The
                          > more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its
                          opposite
                          > screams for acknowledgement."
                          >
                          > What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on which
                          > group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me with
                          > those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in the
                          Easter
                          > bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play head-games
                          speaking
                          > loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."
                          >
                          > > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher
                          Alfred
                          > > North
                          > > > Whitehead:
                          > > >
                          > > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                          > > satisfied
                          > > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                          > > cherishes the
                          > > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge.
                          Skeptics
                          > > and
                          > > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are
                          > the
                          > > leading
                          > > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty
                          is
                          > > barred.
                          > > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic
                          adventure.
                          > > The
                          > > > Universe is vast."
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > I would love to hear more about why this
                          > > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                          > > to you?
                          > >
                          > For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                          > themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to the
                          > idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find
                          new
                          > paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities; they
                          > may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                          > events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They
                          then
                          > insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an
                          extension
                          > of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no circumstances is
                          > it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                          > matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I
                          hear
                          > the same old responses I used to use when I was a well-trained
                          > skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal somewhere,
                          > it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I
                          have
                          > no doubt that this view is reciprocated.
                          >
                          > Best regards,
                          >
                          > Jim
                        • Jim Clark
                          Freyja, Thanks. I am hoping to hear stories from others here. I ve heard many from others over the years and they never cease to fascinate me. Jim ... From:
                          Message 12 of 21 , Oct 31, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Freyja,
                             
                            Thanks. I am hoping to hear stories from others here. I've heard many from others over the years and they never cease to fascinate me.
                             
                            Jim
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: carolina112900 [mailto:freyjartist@...]
                            Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 4:22 AM
                            To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Picture

                            Jim,

                            Thank you for taking the time
                            to expand on these topics.

                            We all have a story/stories :-)

                            As Joan Tollifson wrote,

                            "Stories make apparent sense out of
                            what would otherwise be incomprehensible.
                            They give meaning and importance to the
                            fiction of myself and all that I identify
                            with: my family, my civilization, my
                            ethnic group, my political leanings, my
                            sexual orientation, my subculture, my
                            gender, my generation.  Stories are entertaining.
                            God apparently enjoys drama, play, hide and seek,
                            lost and found.

                            Sometimes a story helps to expose and dissolve
                            limitations; sometimes it creates and reinforces
                            them.  Stories can lull us to sleep or wake us
                            up, reveal truth or conceal it.   The same story
                            can serve different functions at different moments.
                            It's a great art to discern when a story can serve
                            different functions at different moments.  It's
                            a great art to discern when a story is breaking
                            open the heart and waking us up, and when it is
                            lulling us to sleep, perpetuating illusion and
                            generating suffering.  Likewise, it is a
                            great art to discern the difference between
                            actuality and concept.  The conceptual filters
                            through which we think about everything are so
                            ubiquitous and so seemingly real that it's easy
                            to mistake them for actuality.  No separate,
                            independent, solid thing really exists, except,
                            apparently, in the story."


                            Your presence is a nice addition here.

                            cheers,
                            Freyja 


                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jimedclark"
                            <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                            > Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.
                            >
                            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "carolina112900"
                            > <freyjartist@a...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark" >
                            > Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                            > > psychic experiences are genuine.  Do you
                            > > think that they mean anything other than
                            > > what the basic human senses provide?
                            >
                            > Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five senses. I
                            > assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be with
                            > regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my
                            mind.
                            >
                            > Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to my
                            > readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of
                            these
                            > events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a
                            much
                            > bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and that
                            > our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence LeShann
                            > pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a New
                            Theory
                            > of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly common
                            > among students who performed mental work under Zen Masters, for
                            > example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects" as
                            means
                            > by which our lower selves distract us from the more important goal
                            of
                            > the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:
                            >
                            > > What do you feel is the value of meditation?
                            >
                            > Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to bring
                            > us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person whose
                            > actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather than on
                            > mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the software
                            > engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                            > our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and low
                            > priority interrupts.


                            > > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                            which
                            > I
                            > > assure my
                            > > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > That is interesting how you put that.
                            > > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                            > > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                            > > off as a result of your tolerance?
                            > > How do you know they are pissed off?
                            > > It is always interesting to me how we
                            > > interpret other's reactions.
                            >
                            > I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                            > many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep my
                            ideas
                            > to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                            > scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too
                            mystical
                            > for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with those
                            > who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of others,
                            > and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo
                            said, "The
                            > more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its
                            opposite
                            > screams for acknowledgement."
                            >
                            > What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on which
                            > group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me with
                            > those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in the
                            Easter
                            > bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play head-games
                            speaking
                            > loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."

                            > > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher
                            Alfred
                            > > North
                            > > > Whitehead:
                            > > >
                            > > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                            > > satisfied
                            > > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                            > > cherishes the
                            > > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge.
                            Skeptics
                            > > and
                            > > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are
                            > the
                            > > leading
                            > > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty
                            is
                            > > barred.
                            > > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic
                            adventure.
                            > > The
                            > > > Universe is vast."
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > I would love to hear more about why this
                            > > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                            > > to you?
                            > >
                            > For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                            > themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to the
                            > idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find
                            new
                            > paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities; they
                            > may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                            > events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They
                            then
                            > insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an
                            extension
                            > of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no circumstances is
                            > it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                            > matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I
                            hear
                            > the same old responses I used to use when I was a well-trained
                            > skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal somewhere,
                            > it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I
                            have
                            > no doubt that this view is reciprocated.
                            >
                            > Best regards,
                            >
                            > Jim



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                          • Sandy
                            Welcome Jim, I am new to the list as well, and also live in So. CA. I think this is going to be a great list to be part of. Hugs, Sandy
                            Message 13 of 21 , Nov 5, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Welcome Jim, I am new to the list as well, and also live in So. CA. I
                              think this is going to be a great list to be part of.

                              Hugs,

                              Sandy
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.