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  • Onniko
    ... Thanks for the site address, Bob. Bobby G, I love your paintings. I added the address to my favorites list. The one in the photo album here caught my
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 27, 2003
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety

      Thanks for the site address, Bob. Bobby G, I love your paintings. I
      added the address to my favorites list. The one in the photo album
      here caught my attention and I found myself kind of mesmerized by
      it, not just the interesting kind of mysterious quality but also I
      just really liked the way it was painted. It's a very sensuous
      realism that a viewer can just wrap their tactile brain around and
      step right into your beautiful world.




      <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Onniko"
      > <onniko@y...> wrote:
      > > That is a cute baby. There's another picture in there I noticed;
      an
      > > interesting painting called Melody on the Mountain. Is there a
      story
      > > behind that?
      >
      > Dear Onniko,
      > It's by Bobby G, and yes, I think is dedicated to and
      > named after the same Melody who posts on several internet
      > groups dealing with consciousness. More of Bobby G's
      > great art can be found at his site
      > http://www.mentaltree.com/
    • texasbg2000
      ... Thank you Onniko. I will hold your warm words close on the cold nights to come. Love Bobby G. ... noticed;
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 27, 2003
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Onniko"
        <onniko@y...> wrote:
        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
        >
        > Thanks for the site address, Bob. Bobby G, I love your paintings. I
        > added the address to my favorites list. The one in the photo album
        > here caught my attention and I found myself kind of mesmerized by
        > it, not just the interesting kind of mysterious quality but also I
        > just really liked the way it was painted. It's a very sensuous
        > realism that a viewer can just wrap their tactile brain around and
        > step right into your beautiful world.

        Thank you Onniko. I will hold your warm words close on the cold
        nights to come.

        Love
        Bobby G.



        >
        >
        >
        >
        > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Onniko"
        > > <onniko@y...> wrote:
        > > > That is a cute baby. There's another picture in there I
        noticed;
        > an
        > > > interesting painting called Melody on the Mountain. Is there a
        > story
        > > > behind that?
        > >
        > > Dear Onniko,
        > > It's by Bobby G, and yes, I think is dedicated to and
        > > named after the same Melody who posts on several internet
        > > groups dealing with consciousness. More of Bobby G's
        > > great art can be found at his site
        > > http://www.mentaltree.com/
      • devianandi
        bobby: your so inspiring...a painter ... thanks bobby, thats good advice and i tell myself the same thing quite often...like i said i really need to take some
        Message 3 of 21 , Oct 28, 2003
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          bobby: your so inspiring...a painter
          > > and a yogi.
          >
          > Thanks Devi. Here is the advice. Keep meditatiing and keep
          > painting. If the universed wants you to get better you will.
          >
          > Love
          > Bobby G.

          thanks bobby, thats good advice and i tell myself the same thing
          quite often...like i said i really need to take some lessons and i
          have been feeling like that for a long time, and last month, the
          universe provided me with jeanette la cru, she's becoming a popular
          painter here in norther california, who gave a free demo at a gallery
          around here,,i stood there for about two hours just watching her
          paint..(i was the only one)..hey are you interested in putting some
          of your work in a prestigous gallery in a resort and spa town here?
          i'd love to represent you in california. how about it? smiles
        • devianandi
          If God brings you to it, He will bring you through it. Happy moments, praise God. Difficult moments, seek God. Quiet moments, worship God. Painful moments,
          Message 4 of 21 , Oct 28, 2003
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            If God brings you to it, He will bring you through it.


            Happy moments, praise God.
            Difficult moments, seek God.
            Quiet moments, worship God.
            Painful moments, trust God.
            Every moment, thank God.

            Pass this message to seven people except you and me.
            You will receive a miracle tomorrow (just do it)
          • texasbg2000
            ... gallery ... Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years ago when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and then New
            Message 5 of 21 , Oct 28, 2003
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              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
              <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > bobby: your so inspiring...a painter
              > > > and a yogi.
              > >
              > > Thanks Devi. Here is the advice. Keep meditatiing and keep
              > > painting. If the universed wants you to get better you will.
              > >
              > > Love
              > > Bobby G.
              >
              > thanks bobby, thats good advice and i tell myself the same thing
              > quite often...like i said i really need to take some lessons and i
              > have been feeling like that for a long time, and last month, the
              > universe provided me with jeanette la cru, she's becoming a popular
              > painter here in norther california, who gave a free demo at a
              gallery
              > around here,,i stood there for about two hours just watching her
              > paint..(i was the only one)..hey are you interested in putting some
              > of your work in a prestigous gallery in a resort and spa town here?
              > i'd love to represent you in california. how about it? smiles

              Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years ago
              when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
              then New Mexico. so years later I still have that to do.

              Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there where
              you are? I still have them all, I never sell anything.
              Bobby G.
            • devianandi
              ... ago ... devi: http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/ this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take a look and see if you compare..some
              Message 6 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003
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                >
                > Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years
                ago
                > when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
                > then New Mexico. so years later I still have that to do.
                >
                > Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there where
                > you are? I still have them all, I never sell anything.
                > Bobby G.

                devi:

                http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/

                this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take a
                look and see if you compare..some of your landscapes seem *generic*,
                in other words they look like they could be california
                scenerey...thats a good thing...theres a lady named camille that
                studied for five years with your teacher henshe...why haven't you
                sold your paintings? when you paint, do you paint with the
                thought ..what will the public buy?....i noticed that you have one
                painiting, is it a mission,?,,it looked very good but i couldn't get
                it enlarged,,theres a woman here gail salituri who makes a fortune
                selling paintings of missions....are your paintings framed? do you
                have any 9x12s?
              • texasbg2000
                ... where ... a ... *generic*, ... get ... Hi Devi: Thank you for looking into that and getting the link. It is not that I never sell but I seldom do. I do
                Message 7 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003
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                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
                  <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > > Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years
                  > ago
                  > > when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
                  > > then New Mexico. so years later I still have that to do.
                  > >
                  > > Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there
                  where
                  > > you are? I still have them all, I never sell anything.
                  > > Bobby G.
                  >
                  > devi:
                  >
                  > http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/
                  >
                  > this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take
                  a
                  > look and see if you compare..some of your landscapes seem
                  *generic*,
                  > in other words they look like they could be california
                  > scenerey...thats a good thing...theres a lady named camille that
                  > studied for five years with your teacher henshe...why haven't you
                  > sold your paintings? when you paint, do you paint with the
                  > thought ..what will the public buy?....i noticed that you have one
                  > painiting, is it a mission,?,,it looked very good but i couldn't
                  get
                  > it enlarged,,theres a woman here gail salituri who makes a fortune
                  > selling paintings of missions....are your paintings framed? do you
                  > have any 9x12s?

                  Hi Devi:

                  Thank you for looking into that and getting the link.

                  It is not that I never sell but I seldom do. I do mostly commissions
                  and the paintings that I post here are just for myself. I have
                  gravitated more towards the painting for myself so much now that a
                  gallery would be good. Things change you know and life is long. It
                  is good to take new directions sometimes. Perhaps that gallery will
                  want my work and I will move there for the rest of life. Who knows?

                  In fact my definition of enlightenment is knowing everything is new.

                  And yes I have lots of framed pieces. I made most of them. I like
                  frames but I am not good at making them.

                  And dozens of small pieces.

                  And large ones. I will past a large on in the photos section from
                  Arches.

                  Thanks again for your interest.

                  Love,
                  Bobby G.
                • Jim Clark
                  Hello group, As your newest addition to this society, I don t know much about you, but just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall attempt
                  Message 8 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003
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                    Hello group,

                     

                    As your newest addition to this society, I don't know much about you, but just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall attempt to do so.

                     

                    I was born in 1948, grew up in Oklahoma City, a fairly regular attendee of a Southern Baptist Church until I went away to college at the University of Texas at Austin as a Math Major. My attendance was made possible via an NROTC scholarship; thus, after graduating I served my obligatory sentence as a Naval Officer, including two tours in Viet Nam. During that period I became a fan of the writings of a various mystics, most especially Alan Watts. I spent my last tour in San Diego where I broadened my interests to other writers, including Lawrence LeShan, Jane Roberts, Edgar Cayce, Ouspenski, etc. I attended as many lectures and classes on psychic phenomenon and similar topics as I could; I also took up Yoga, studied as many religions, philosophies, and practiced as many exercises as my little mind could endure. I have had enough psychic experiences to know that they are genuine, and believe strongly in the value of meditation.

                     

                    I am currently a Senior Software Engineer living alone in Los Angeles, California.

                     

                    I have attempted through the years to be self-critical so as to assure steady, balanced, growth, yet have succeeded in experiencing my share of madness and “folly”. I continue to strive for enough stability to be meaningful, without losing the ability to explore interesting new ideas. Tolerance of everyone else’s point of view is the means by which I assure my continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.

                     

                    My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred North Whitehead:

                    “The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-satisfied dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history cherishes the delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics and believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are the leading dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is barred. This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure. The Universe is vast.”

                     

                    I look forward to hearing from those of you willing to share your ideas and experiences.
                     
                    Jim
                     -----Original Message-----
                    From: texasbg2000 [mailto:Bigbobgraham@...]
                    Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 5:58 PM
                    To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Picture

                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
                    <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Northern Cal sounds great.  I was off to visit Oregon Four years
                    > ago
                    > > when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
                    > > then New Mexico.  so years later I still have that to do. 
                    > >
                    > > Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there
                    where
                    > > you are?  I still have them all, I never sell anything.
                    > > Bobby G.
                    >
                    > devi:
                    >
                    > http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/
                    >
                    > this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take
                    a
                    > look and see if you compare..some of your landscapes seem
                    *generic*,
                    > in other words they look like they could be california
                    > scenerey...thats a good thing...theres a lady named camille that
                    > studied for five years with your teacher henshe...why haven't you
                    > sold your paintings? when you paint, do you paint with the
                    > thought ..what will the public buy?....i noticed that you have one
                    > painiting, is it a mission,?,,it looked very good but i couldn't
                    get
                    > it enlarged,,theres a woman here gail salituri who makes a fortune
                    > selling paintings of missions....are your paintings framed? do you
                    > have any 9x12s?

                    Hi Devi:

                    Thank you for looking into that and getting the link. 

                    It is not that I never sell but I seldom do.  I do mostly commissions
                    and the paintings that I post here are just for myself.  I have
                    gravitated more towards the painting for myself so much now that a
                    gallery would be good.  Things change you know and life is long.  It
                    is good to take new directions sometimes.  Perhaps that gallery will
                    want my work and I will move there for the rest of life.  Who knows?

                    In fact my definition of enlightenment is knowing everything is new.

                    And yes I have lots of framed pieces. I made most of them. I like
                    frames but I am not good at making them. 

                    And dozens of small pieces.

                    And large ones.  I will past a large on in the photos section from
                    Arches.

                    Thanks again for your interest.

                    Love,
                    Bobby G.










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                    meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                  • medit8ionsociety
                    Dear Jim, I really enjoyed your intro, and appreciate all you so eloquently shared. The quote by Whitehead is new to me, and it s A quality. Actually,
                    Message 9 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003
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                      Dear Jim,
                      I really enjoyed your intro, and appreciate all you so eloquently
                      shared. The quote by Whitehead is new to me, and it's "A" quality.
                      Actually, although it's very "deep", it also made me smile as I
                      witnessed it bringing thoughts similar to "Tell it like it is
                      brother!" to mind. Anyway, I hope this is just the start of an ongoing
                      mutual exploration of consciousness evolution, or some similar
                      adjective. I'm glad you're here. Welcome.
                      Peace and blessings,
                      Bob

                      "Jim Clark" <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                      > Hello group,
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > As your newest addition to this society, I don't know much about
                      you, but
                      > just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall
                      attempt to do
                      > so.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I was born in 1948, grew up in Oklahoma City, a fairly regular
                      attendee of a
                      > Southern Baptist Church until I went away to college at the
                      University of
                      > Texas at Austin as a Math Major. My attendance was made possible via an
                      > NROTC scholarship; thus, after graduating I served my obligatory
                      sentence as
                      > a Naval Officer, including two tours in Viet Nam. During that period I
                      > became a fan of the writings of a various mystics, most especially Alan
                      > Watts. I spent my last tour in San Diego where I broadened my
                      interests to
                      > other writers, including Lawrence LeShan, Jane Roberts, Edgar Cayce,
                      > Ouspenski, etc. I attended as many lectures and classes on psychic
                      > phenomenon and similar topics as I could; I also took up Yoga,
                      studied as
                      > many religions, philosophies, and practiced as many exercises as my
                      little
                      > mind could endure. I have had enough psychic experiences to know
                      that they
                      > are genuine, and believe strongly in the value of meditation.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I am currently a Senior Software Engineer living alone in Los Angeles,
                      > California.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I have attempted through the years to be self-critical so as to assure
                      > steady, balanced, growth, yet have succeeded in experiencing my share of
                      > madness and "folly". I continue to strive for enough stability to be
                      > meaningful, without losing the ability to explore interesting new ideas.
                      > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by which I
                      assure my
                      > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred North
                      > Whitehead:
                      >
                      > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-satisfied
                      > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history cherishes the
                      > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics and
                      > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are the
                      leading
                      > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is
                      barred.
                      > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure. The
                      > Universe is vast."
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I look forward to hearing from those of you willing to share your
                      ideas and
                      > experiences.
                      >
                      > Jim
                      >
                    • carolina112900
                      ... Hello Jim, I enjoyed reading your introduction and glad you shared some of your story. ... you, but ... attempt to do ... attendee of a ... University of
                      Message 10 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
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                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark"
                        <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                        > Hello group,
                        >

                        Hello Jim,

                        I enjoyed reading your introduction
                        and glad you shared some of your
                        story.

                        >
                        >
                        > As your newest addition to this society, I don't know much about
                        you, but
                        > just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall
                        attempt to do
                        > so.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I was born in 1948, grew up in Oklahoma City, a fairly regular
                        attendee of a
                        > Southern Baptist Church until I went away to college at the
                        University of
                        > Texas at Austin as a Math Major. My attendance was made possible
                        via an
                        > NROTC scholarship; thus, after graduating I served my obligatory
                        sentence as
                        > a Naval Officer, including two tours in Viet Nam. During that
                        period I
                        > became a fan of the writings of a various mystics, most especially
                        Alan
                        > Watts. I spent my last tour in San Diego where I broadened my
                        interests to
                        > other writers, including Lawrence LeShan, Jane Roberts, Edgar Cayce,
                        > Ouspenski, etc. I attended as many lectures and classes on psychic
                        > phenomenon and similar topics as I could; I also took up Yoga,
                        studied as
                        > many religions, philosophies, and practiced as many exercises as my
                        little
                        > mind could endure. I have had enough psychic experiences to know
                        that they
                        > are genuine, and believe strongly in the value of meditation.
                        >


                        Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                        psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                        think that they mean anything other than
                        what the basic human senses provide?

                        What do you feel is the value of meditation?


                        >
                        >
                        > I am currently a Senior Software Engineer living alone in Los
                        Angeles,
                        > California.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I have attempted through the years to be self-critical so as to
                        assure
                        > steady, balanced, growth, yet have succeeded in experiencing my
                        share of
                        > madness and "folly". I continue to strive for enough stability to be
                        > meaningful, without losing the ability to explore interesting new
                        ideas.

                        > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by which I
                        assure my
                        > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                        >

                        That is interesting how you put that.
                        And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                        Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                        off as a result of your tolerance?
                        How do you know they are pissed off?
                        It is always interesting to me how we
                        interpret other's reactions.



                        >
                        >
                        > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred
                        North
                        > Whitehead:
                        >
                        > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                        satisfied
                        > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                        cherishes the
                        > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics
                        and
                        > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are the
                        leading
                        > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is
                        barred.
                        > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure.
                        The
                        > Universe is vast."
                        >

                        I would love to hear more about why this
                        is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                        to you?

                        Thank you and welcome, Jim

                        blessings,

                        Freyja


                        >
                        >
                        > I look forward to hearing from those of you willing to share your
                        ideas and
                        > experiences.
                        >
                        > Jim
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                        Service.
                      • Swami-G
                        ... which I assure my continued ability to piss virtually everyone off. SG: why do you see this as an ability to piss everyone off ? this is an interesting
                        Message 11 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
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                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim
                          Clark" <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                          > Hello group,
                          >

                          > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                          which I assure my continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.

                          SG: why do you see this as an ability to piss everyone off ?

                          this is an interesting statement .....

                          Om in love
                        • jimedclark
                          Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome. ... Can you talk more about your knowledge that ... Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five
                          Message 12 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
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                            Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.

                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "carolina112900"
                            <freyjartist@a...> wrote:

                            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark" >
                            Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                            > psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                            > think that they mean anything other than
                            > what the basic human senses provide?

                            Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five senses. I
                            assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be with
                            regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my mind.

                            Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to my
                            readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of these
                            events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a much
                            bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and that
                            our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence LeShann
                            pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a New Theory
                            of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly common
                            among students who performed mental work under Zen Masters, for
                            example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects" as means
                            by which our lower selves distract us from the more important goal of
                            the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:

                            > What do you feel is the value of meditation?

                            Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to bring
                            us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person whose
                            actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather than on
                            mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the software
                            engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                            our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and low
                            priority interrupts.


                            > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by which
                            I
                            > assure my
                            > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                            > >
                            >
                            > That is interesting how you put that.
                            > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                            > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                            > off as a result of your tolerance?
                            > How do you know they are pissed off?
                            > It is always interesting to me how we
                            > interpret other's reactions.

                            I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                            many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep my ideas
                            to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                            scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too mystical
                            for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with those
                            who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of others,
                            and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo said, "The
                            more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its opposite
                            screams for acknowledgement."

                            What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on which
                            group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me with
                            those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in the Easter
                            bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play head-games speaking
                            loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."

                            > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred
                            > North
                            > > Whitehead:
                            > >
                            > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                            > satisfied
                            > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                            > cherishes the
                            > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics
                            > and
                            > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are
                            the
                            > leading
                            > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is
                            > barred.
                            > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure.
                            > The
                            > > Universe is vast."
                            > >
                            >
                            > I would love to hear more about why this
                            > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                            > to you?
                            >
                            For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                            themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to the
                            idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find new
                            paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities; they
                            may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                            events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They then
                            insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an extension
                            of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no circumstances is
                            it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                            matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I hear
                            the same old responses I used to use when I was a well-trained
                            skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal somewhere,
                            it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I have
                            no doubt that this view is reciprocated.

                            Best regards,

                            Jim
                          • Swami-G
                            ... carolina112900 ... Clark ... senses. I ... with ... mind. ... my ... these ... much ... that ... LeShann ... New Theory ... common ... Masters, for
                            Message 13 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
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                              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                              "jimedclark" <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                              > Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.
                              >
                              > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                              "carolina112900"
                              > <freyjartist@a...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim
                              Clark" >
                              > Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                              > > psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                              > > think that they mean anything other than
                              > > what the basic human senses provide?
                              >
                              > Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five
                              senses. I
                              > assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be
                              with
                              > regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my
                              mind.
                              >
                              > Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to
                              my
                              > readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of
                              these
                              > events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a
                              much
                              > bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and
                              that
                              > our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence
                              LeShann
                              > pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a
                              New Theory
                              > of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly
                              common
                              > among students who performed mental work under Zen
                              Masters, for
                              > example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects"
                              as means
                              > by which our lower selves distract us from the more important
                              goal of
                              > the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:
                              >
                              > > What do you feel is the value of meditation?
                              >
                              > Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to
                              bring
                              > us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person
                              whose
                              > actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather
                              than on
                              > mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the
                              software
                              > engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                              > our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and
                              low
                              > priority interrupts.
                              >
                              >
                              > > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                              which
                              > I
                              > > assure my
                              > > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > That is interesting how you put that.
                              > > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                              > > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                              > > off as a result of your tolerance?
                              > > How do you know they are pissed off?
                              > > It is always interesting to me how we
                              > > interpret other's reactions.
                              >
                              > I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                              > many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep
                              my ideas
                              > to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                              > scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too mystical
                              > for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with
                              those
                              > who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of
                              others,
                              > and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo
                              said, "The
                              > more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its
                              opposite
                              > screams for acknowledgement."
                              >
                              > What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on
                              which
                              > group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me
                              with
                              > those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in
                              the Easter
                              > bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play
                              head-games speaking
                              > loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."
                              >
                              > > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher
                              Alfred
                              > > North
                              > > > Whitehead:
                              > > >
                              > > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the
                              self-
                              > > satisfied
                              > > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                              > > cherishes the
                              > > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge.
                              Skeptics
                              > > and
                              > > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics
                              are
                              > the
                              > > leading
                              > > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental
                              novelty is
                              > > barred.
                              > > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic
                              adventure.
                              > > The
                              > > > Universe is vast."
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > I would love to hear more about why this
                              > > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                              > > to you?
                              > >
                              > For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                              > themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to
                              the
                              > idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find
                              new
                              > paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities;
                              they
                              > may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                              > events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They
                              then
                              > insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an
                              extension
                              > of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no
                              circumstances is
                              > it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                              > matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I
                              hear
                              > the same old responses I used to use when I was a
                              well-trained
                              > skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal
                              somewhere,
                              > it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I
                              have
                              > no doubt that this view is reciprocated.
                              >
                              > Best regards,
                              >
                              > Jim


                              SG: wherever your attention is pointing that is the avenue
                              open for exploration..... from that point of openness
                              the creative mind expands.......

                              or the avenue willing to be heard as it is the point of
                              referance for that conditional self image ........ if it holds
                              ones self image in place then it is the *right* one......

                              sometimes one exchanges one set of conditioned
                              response for another......

                              eventually they begin to crumble in the light of day and
                              a whole new paradigm emerges .......

                              as long as revolving phenomena is the focal point
                              then there is no stable point of referance other than the
                              current set of belief's and one is apt
                              to do this motion of standing on a roller board
                              identity while juggling the latest mental conceptulization...

                              meditation stops the frenetic action..... the juggling
                              stops....... one steps off the board and begins to
                              see what has always been right here ...... it comes into
                              focus and clarity now that the attention isn't being
                              diverted to image balance or mental jugglings......

                              what is left ? just walking and enjoying the freedom
                              of being unencumbered by the juggling act ......
                            • carolina112900
                              Jim, Thank you for taking the time to expand on these topics. We all have a story/stories :-) As Joan Tollifson wrote, Stories make apparent sense out of what
                              Message 14 of 21 , Oct 31, 2003
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                                Jim,

                                Thank you for taking the time
                                to expand on these topics.

                                We all have a story/stories :-)

                                As Joan Tollifson wrote,

                                "Stories make apparent sense out of
                                what would otherwise be incomprehensible.
                                They give meaning and importance to the
                                fiction of myself and all that I identify
                                with: my family, my civilization, my
                                ethnic group, my political leanings, my
                                sexual orientation, my subculture, my
                                gender, my generation. Stories are entertaining.
                                God apparently enjoys drama, play, hide and seek,
                                lost and found.

                                Sometimes a story helps to expose and dissolve
                                limitations; sometimes it creates and reinforces
                                them. Stories can lull us to sleep or wake us
                                up, reveal truth or conceal it. The same story
                                can serve different functions at different moments.
                                It's a great art to discern when a story can serve
                                different functions at different moments. It's
                                a great art to discern when a story is breaking
                                open the heart and waking us up, and when it is
                                lulling us to sleep, perpetuating illusion and
                                generating suffering. Likewise, it is a
                                great art to discern the difference between
                                actuality and concept. The conceptual filters
                                through which we think about everything are so
                                ubiquitous and so seemingly real that it's easy
                                to mistake them for actuality. No separate,
                                independent, solid thing really exists, except,
                                apparently, in the story."


                                Your presence is a nice addition here.

                                cheers,
                                Freyja


                                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jimedclark"
                                <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                                > Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.
                                >
                                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "carolina112900"
                                > <freyjartist@a...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark" >
                                > Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                                > > psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                                > > think that they mean anything other than
                                > > what the basic human senses provide?
                                >
                                > Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five senses. I
                                > assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be with
                                > regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my
                                mind.
                                >
                                > Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to my
                                > readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of
                                these
                                > events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a
                                much
                                > bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and that
                                > our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence LeShann
                                > pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a New
                                Theory
                                > of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly common
                                > among students who performed mental work under Zen Masters, for
                                > example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects" as
                                means
                                > by which our lower selves distract us from the more important goal
                                of
                                > the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:
                                >
                                > > What do you feel is the value of meditation?
                                >
                                > Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to bring
                                > us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person whose
                                > actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather than on
                                > mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the software
                                > engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                                > our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and low
                                > priority interrupts.
                                >
                                >
                                > > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                                which
                                > I
                                > > assure my
                                > > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > That is interesting how you put that.
                                > > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                                > > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                                > > off as a result of your tolerance?
                                > > How do you know they are pissed off?
                                > > It is always interesting to me how we
                                > > interpret other's reactions.
                                >
                                > I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                                > many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep my
                                ideas
                                > to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                                > scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too
                                mystical
                                > for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with those
                                > who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of others,
                                > and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo
                                said, "The
                                > more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its
                                opposite
                                > screams for acknowledgement."
                                >
                                > What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on which
                                > group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me with
                                > those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in the
                                Easter
                                > bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play head-games
                                speaking
                                > loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."
                                >
                                > > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher
                                Alfred
                                > > North
                                > > > Whitehead:
                                > > >
                                > > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                                > > satisfied
                                > > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                                > > cherishes the
                                > > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge.
                                Skeptics
                                > > and
                                > > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are
                                > the
                                > > leading
                                > > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty
                                is
                                > > barred.
                                > > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic
                                adventure.
                                > > The
                                > > > Universe is vast."
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > I would love to hear more about why this
                                > > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                                > > to you?
                                > >
                                > For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                                > themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to the
                                > idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find
                                new
                                > paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities; they
                                > may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                                > events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They
                                then
                                > insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an
                                extension
                                > of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no circumstances is
                                > it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                                > matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I
                                hear
                                > the same old responses I used to use when I was a well-trained
                                > skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal somewhere,
                                > it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I
                                have
                                > no doubt that this view is reciprocated.
                                >
                                > Best regards,
                                >
                                > Jim
                              • Jim Clark
                                Freyja, Thanks. I am hoping to hear stories from others here. I ve heard many from others over the years and they never cease to fascinate me. Jim ... From:
                                Message 15 of 21 , Oct 31, 2003
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Freyja,
                                   
                                  Thanks. I am hoping to hear stories from others here. I've heard many from others over the years and they never cease to fascinate me.
                                   
                                  Jim
                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: carolina112900 [mailto:freyjartist@...]
                                  Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 4:22 AM
                                  To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Picture

                                  Jim,

                                  Thank you for taking the time
                                  to expand on these topics.

                                  We all have a story/stories :-)

                                  As Joan Tollifson wrote,

                                  "Stories make apparent sense out of
                                  what would otherwise be incomprehensible.
                                  They give meaning and importance to the
                                  fiction of myself and all that I identify
                                  with: my family, my civilization, my
                                  ethnic group, my political leanings, my
                                  sexual orientation, my subculture, my
                                  gender, my generation.  Stories are entertaining.
                                  God apparently enjoys drama, play, hide and seek,
                                  lost and found.

                                  Sometimes a story helps to expose and dissolve
                                  limitations; sometimes it creates and reinforces
                                  them.  Stories can lull us to sleep or wake us
                                  up, reveal truth or conceal it.   The same story
                                  can serve different functions at different moments.
                                  It's a great art to discern when a story can serve
                                  different functions at different moments.  It's
                                  a great art to discern when a story is breaking
                                  open the heart and waking us up, and when it is
                                  lulling us to sleep, perpetuating illusion and
                                  generating suffering.  Likewise, it is a
                                  great art to discern the difference between
                                  actuality and concept.  The conceptual filters
                                  through which we think about everything are so
                                  ubiquitous and so seemingly real that it's easy
                                  to mistake them for actuality.  No separate,
                                  independent, solid thing really exists, except,
                                  apparently, in the story."


                                  Your presence is a nice addition here.

                                  cheers,
                                  Freyja 


                                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jimedclark"
                                  <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                                  > Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.
                                  >
                                  > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "carolina112900"
                                  > <freyjartist@a...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark" >
                                  > Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                                  > > psychic experiences are genuine.  Do you
                                  > > think that they mean anything other than
                                  > > what the basic human senses provide?
                                  >
                                  > Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five senses. I
                                  > assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be with
                                  > regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my
                                  mind.
                                  >
                                  > Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to my
                                  > readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of
                                  these
                                  > events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a
                                  much
                                  > bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and that
                                  > our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence LeShann
                                  > pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a New
                                  Theory
                                  > of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly common
                                  > among students who performed mental work under Zen Masters, for
                                  > example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects" as
                                  means
                                  > by which our lower selves distract us from the more important goal
                                  of
                                  > the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:
                                  >
                                  > > What do you feel is the value of meditation?
                                  >
                                  > Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to bring
                                  > us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person whose
                                  > actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather than on
                                  > mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the software
                                  > engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                                  > our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and low
                                  > priority interrupts.


                                  > > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                                  which
                                  > I
                                  > > assure my
                                  > > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > > That is interesting how you put that.
                                  > > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                                  > > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                                  > > off as a result of your tolerance?
                                  > > How do you know they are pissed off?
                                  > > It is always interesting to me how we
                                  > > interpret other's reactions.
                                  >
                                  > I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                                  > many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep my
                                  ideas
                                  > to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                                  > scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too
                                  mystical
                                  > for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with those
                                  > who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of others,
                                  > and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo
                                  said, "The
                                  > more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its
                                  opposite
                                  > screams for acknowledgement."
                                  >
                                  > What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on which
                                  > group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me with
                                  > those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in the
                                  Easter
                                  > bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play head-games
                                  speaking
                                  > loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."

                                  > > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher
                                  Alfred
                                  > > North
                                  > > > Whitehead:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                                  > > satisfied
                                  > > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                                  > > cherishes the
                                  > > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge.
                                  Skeptics
                                  > > and
                                  > > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are
                                  > the
                                  > > leading
                                  > > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty
                                  is
                                  > > barred.
                                  > > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic
                                  adventure.
                                  > > The
                                  > > > Universe is vast."
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > > I would love to hear more about why this
                                  > > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                                  > > to you?
                                  > >
                                  > For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                                  > themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to the
                                  > idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find
                                  new
                                  > paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities; they
                                  > may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                                  > events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They
                                  then
                                  > insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an
                                  extension
                                  > of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no circumstances is
                                  > it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                                  > matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I
                                  hear
                                  > the same old responses I used to use when I was a well-trained
                                  > skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal somewhere,
                                  > it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I
                                  have
                                  > no doubt that this view is reciprocated.
                                  >
                                  > Best regards,
                                  >
                                  > Jim



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                                • Sandy
                                  Welcome Jim, I am new to the list as well, and also live in So. CA. I think this is going to be a great list to be part of. Hugs, Sandy
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Nov 5, 2003
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Welcome Jim, I am new to the list as well, and also live in So. CA. I
                                    think this is going to be a great list to be part of.

                                    Hugs,

                                    Sandy
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