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Re: Picture

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  • texasbg2000
    ... seemed ... around ... a ... again..i ... Thanks Devi. Here is the advice. Keep meditatiing and keep painting. If the universed wants you to get better
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 27, 2003
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
      <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > A little bit of a story. Melody and I were corresponding at the
      > same
      > > time I was finishing that painting. I needed a name and it
      seemed
      > > right. It was the right note of mystery and the excahge was very
      > > beautiful.
      > >
      > > I was painting here in my hometown in Texas and spied the little
      > girl
      > > and her sister playing with a new puppy. They were playing
      around
      > me
      > > while I painted and I took a photo to remember. The painting was
      a
      > > blessing.
      > >
      > > Love,
      > > Bobby G.
      >
      > devi: bobby, i was blown away by your paintings...and after looking
      > at all yours i went to your teachers site and was blown away
      again..i
      > wish i could take some lessons from you....so inspiring...a painter
      > and a yogi.

      Thanks Devi. Here is the advice. Keep meditatiing and keep
      painting. If the universed wants you to get better you will.

      Love
      Bobby G.
    • Onniko
      ... Thanks for the site address, Bob. Bobby G, I love your paintings. I added the address to my favorites list. The one in the photo album here caught my
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 27, 2003
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety

        Thanks for the site address, Bob. Bobby G, I love your paintings. I
        added the address to my favorites list. The one in the photo album
        here caught my attention and I found myself kind of mesmerized by
        it, not just the interesting kind of mysterious quality but also I
        just really liked the way it was painted. It's a very sensuous
        realism that a viewer can just wrap their tactile brain around and
        step right into your beautiful world.




        <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Onniko"
        > <onniko@y...> wrote:
        > > That is a cute baby. There's another picture in there I noticed;
        an
        > > interesting painting called Melody on the Mountain. Is there a
        story
        > > behind that?
        >
        > Dear Onniko,
        > It's by Bobby G, and yes, I think is dedicated to and
        > named after the same Melody who posts on several internet
        > groups dealing with consciousness. More of Bobby G's
        > great art can be found at his site
        > http://www.mentaltree.com/
      • texasbg2000
        ... Thank you Onniko. I will hold your warm words close on the cold nights to come. Love Bobby G. ... noticed;
        Message 3 of 21 , Oct 27, 2003
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          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Onniko"
          <onniko@y...> wrote:
          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
          >
          > Thanks for the site address, Bob. Bobby G, I love your paintings. I
          > added the address to my favorites list. The one in the photo album
          > here caught my attention and I found myself kind of mesmerized by
          > it, not just the interesting kind of mysterious quality but also I
          > just really liked the way it was painted. It's a very sensuous
          > realism that a viewer can just wrap their tactile brain around and
          > step right into your beautiful world.

          Thank you Onniko. I will hold your warm words close on the cold
          nights to come.

          Love
          Bobby G.



          >
          >
          >
          >
          > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Onniko"
          > > <onniko@y...> wrote:
          > > > That is a cute baby. There's another picture in there I
          noticed;
          > an
          > > > interesting painting called Melody on the Mountain. Is there a
          > story
          > > > behind that?
          > >
          > > Dear Onniko,
          > > It's by Bobby G, and yes, I think is dedicated to and
          > > named after the same Melody who posts on several internet
          > > groups dealing with consciousness. More of Bobby G's
          > > great art can be found at his site
          > > http://www.mentaltree.com/
        • devianandi
          bobby: your so inspiring...a painter ... thanks bobby, thats good advice and i tell myself the same thing quite often...like i said i really need to take some
          Message 4 of 21 , Oct 28, 2003
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            bobby: your so inspiring...a painter
            > > and a yogi.
            >
            > Thanks Devi. Here is the advice. Keep meditatiing and keep
            > painting. If the universed wants you to get better you will.
            >
            > Love
            > Bobby G.

            thanks bobby, thats good advice and i tell myself the same thing
            quite often...like i said i really need to take some lessons and i
            have been feeling like that for a long time, and last month, the
            universe provided me with jeanette la cru, she's becoming a popular
            painter here in norther california, who gave a free demo at a gallery
            around here,,i stood there for about two hours just watching her
            paint..(i was the only one)..hey are you interested in putting some
            of your work in a prestigous gallery in a resort and spa town here?
            i'd love to represent you in california. how about it? smiles
          • devianandi
            If God brings you to it, He will bring you through it. Happy moments, praise God. Difficult moments, seek God. Quiet moments, worship God. Painful moments,
            Message 5 of 21 , Oct 28, 2003
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              If God brings you to it, He will bring you through it.


              Happy moments, praise God.
              Difficult moments, seek God.
              Quiet moments, worship God.
              Painful moments, trust God.
              Every moment, thank God.

              Pass this message to seven people except you and me.
              You will receive a miracle tomorrow (just do it)
            • texasbg2000
              ... gallery ... Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years ago when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and then New
              Message 6 of 21 , Oct 28, 2003
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                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
                <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                > bobby: your so inspiring...a painter
                > > > and a yogi.
                > >
                > > Thanks Devi. Here is the advice. Keep meditatiing and keep
                > > painting. If the universed wants you to get better you will.
                > >
                > > Love
                > > Bobby G.
                >
                > thanks bobby, thats good advice and i tell myself the same thing
                > quite often...like i said i really need to take some lessons and i
                > have been feeling like that for a long time, and last month, the
                > universe provided me with jeanette la cru, she's becoming a popular
                > painter here in norther california, who gave a free demo at a
                gallery
                > around here,,i stood there for about two hours just watching her
                > paint..(i was the only one)..hey are you interested in putting some
                > of your work in a prestigous gallery in a resort and spa town here?
                > i'd love to represent you in california. how about it? smiles

                Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years ago
                when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
                then New Mexico. so years later I still have that to do.

                Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there where
                you are? I still have them all, I never sell anything.
                Bobby G.
              • devianandi
                ... ago ... devi: http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/ this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take a look and see if you compare..some
                Message 7 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003
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                  >
                  > Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years
                  ago
                  > when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
                  > then New Mexico. so years later I still have that to do.
                  >
                  > Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there where
                  > you are? I still have them all, I never sell anything.
                  > Bobby G.

                  devi:

                  http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/

                  this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take a
                  look and see if you compare..some of your landscapes seem *generic*,
                  in other words they look like they could be california
                  scenerey...thats a good thing...theres a lady named camille that
                  studied for five years with your teacher henshe...why haven't you
                  sold your paintings? when you paint, do you paint with the
                  thought ..what will the public buy?....i noticed that you have one
                  painiting, is it a mission,?,,it looked very good but i couldn't get
                  it enlarged,,theres a woman here gail salituri who makes a fortune
                  selling paintings of missions....are your paintings framed? do you
                  have any 9x12s?
                • texasbg2000
                  ... where ... a ... *generic*, ... get ... Hi Devi: Thank you for looking into that and getting the link. It is not that I never sell but I seldom do. I do
                  Message 8 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003
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                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
                    <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years
                    > ago
                    > > when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
                    > > then New Mexico. so years later I still have that to do.
                    > >
                    > > Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there
                    where
                    > > you are? I still have them all, I never sell anything.
                    > > Bobby G.
                    >
                    > devi:
                    >
                    > http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/
                    >
                    > this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take
                    a
                    > look and see if you compare..some of your landscapes seem
                    *generic*,
                    > in other words they look like they could be california
                    > scenerey...thats a good thing...theres a lady named camille that
                    > studied for five years with your teacher henshe...why haven't you
                    > sold your paintings? when you paint, do you paint with the
                    > thought ..what will the public buy?....i noticed that you have one
                    > painiting, is it a mission,?,,it looked very good but i couldn't
                    get
                    > it enlarged,,theres a woman here gail salituri who makes a fortune
                    > selling paintings of missions....are your paintings framed? do you
                    > have any 9x12s?

                    Hi Devi:

                    Thank you for looking into that and getting the link.

                    It is not that I never sell but I seldom do. I do mostly commissions
                    and the paintings that I post here are just for myself. I have
                    gravitated more towards the painting for myself so much now that a
                    gallery would be good. Things change you know and life is long. It
                    is good to take new directions sometimes. Perhaps that gallery will
                    want my work and I will move there for the rest of life. Who knows?

                    In fact my definition of enlightenment is knowing everything is new.

                    And yes I have lots of framed pieces. I made most of them. I like
                    frames but I am not good at making them.

                    And dozens of small pieces.

                    And large ones. I will past a large on in the photos section from
                    Arches.

                    Thanks again for your interest.

                    Love,
                    Bobby G.
                  • Jim Clark
                    Hello group, As your newest addition to this society, I don t know much about you, but just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall attempt
                    Message 9 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003
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                      Hello group,

                       

                      As your newest addition to this society, I don't know much about you, but just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall attempt to do so.

                       

                      I was born in 1948, grew up in Oklahoma City, a fairly regular attendee of a Southern Baptist Church until I went away to college at the University of Texas at Austin as a Math Major. My attendance was made possible via an NROTC scholarship; thus, after graduating I served my obligatory sentence as a Naval Officer, including two tours in Viet Nam. During that period I became a fan of the writings of a various mystics, most especially Alan Watts. I spent my last tour in San Diego where I broadened my interests to other writers, including Lawrence LeShan, Jane Roberts, Edgar Cayce, Ouspenski, etc. I attended as many lectures and classes on psychic phenomenon and similar topics as I could; I also took up Yoga, studied as many religions, philosophies, and practiced as many exercises as my little mind could endure. I have had enough psychic experiences to know that they are genuine, and believe strongly in the value of meditation.

                       

                      I am currently a Senior Software Engineer living alone in Los Angeles, California.

                       

                      I have attempted through the years to be self-critical so as to assure steady, balanced, growth, yet have succeeded in experiencing my share of madness and “folly”. I continue to strive for enough stability to be meaningful, without losing the ability to explore interesting new ideas. Tolerance of everyone else’s point of view is the means by which I assure my continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.

                       

                      My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred North Whitehead:

                      “The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-satisfied dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history cherishes the delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics and believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are the leading dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is barred. This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure. The Universe is vast.”

                       

                      I look forward to hearing from those of you willing to share your ideas and experiences.
                       
                      Jim
                       -----Original Message-----
                      From: texasbg2000 [mailto:Bigbobgraham@...]
                      Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 5:58 PM
                      To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Picture

                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
                      <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > > Northern Cal sounds great.  I was off to visit Oregon Four years
                      > ago
                      > > when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
                      > > then New Mexico.  so years later I still have that to do. 
                      > >
                      > > Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there
                      where
                      > > you are?  I still have them all, I never sell anything.
                      > > Bobby G.
                      >
                      > devi:
                      >
                      > http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/
                      >
                      > this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take
                      a
                      > look and see if you compare..some of your landscapes seem
                      *generic*,
                      > in other words they look like they could be california
                      > scenerey...thats a good thing...theres a lady named camille that
                      > studied for five years with your teacher henshe...why haven't you
                      > sold your paintings? when you paint, do you paint with the
                      > thought ..what will the public buy?....i noticed that you have one
                      > painiting, is it a mission,?,,it looked very good but i couldn't
                      get
                      > it enlarged,,theres a woman here gail salituri who makes a fortune
                      > selling paintings of missions....are your paintings framed? do you
                      > have any 9x12s?

                      Hi Devi:

                      Thank you for looking into that and getting the link. 

                      It is not that I never sell but I seldom do.  I do mostly commissions
                      and the paintings that I post here are just for myself.  I have
                      gravitated more towards the painting for myself so much now that a
                      gallery would be good.  Things change you know and life is long.  It
                      is good to take new directions sometimes.  Perhaps that gallery will
                      want my work and I will move there for the rest of life.  Who knows?

                      In fact my definition of enlightenment is knowing everything is new.

                      And yes I have lots of framed pieces. I made most of them. I like
                      frames but I am not good at making them. 

                      And dozens of small pieces.

                      And large ones.  I will past a large on in the photos section from
                      Arches.

                      Thanks again for your interest.

                      Love,
                      Bobby G.










                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    • medit8ionsociety
                      Dear Jim, I really enjoyed your intro, and appreciate all you so eloquently shared. The quote by Whitehead is new to me, and it s A quality. Actually,
                      Message 10 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003
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                        Dear Jim,
                        I really enjoyed your intro, and appreciate all you so eloquently
                        shared. The quote by Whitehead is new to me, and it's "A" quality.
                        Actually, although it's very "deep", it also made me smile as I
                        witnessed it bringing thoughts similar to "Tell it like it is
                        brother!" to mind. Anyway, I hope this is just the start of an ongoing
                        mutual exploration of consciousness evolution, or some similar
                        adjective. I'm glad you're here. Welcome.
                        Peace and blessings,
                        Bob

                        "Jim Clark" <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                        > Hello group,
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > As your newest addition to this society, I don't know much about
                        you, but
                        > just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall
                        attempt to do
                        > so.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I was born in 1948, grew up in Oklahoma City, a fairly regular
                        attendee of a
                        > Southern Baptist Church until I went away to college at the
                        University of
                        > Texas at Austin as a Math Major. My attendance was made possible via an
                        > NROTC scholarship; thus, after graduating I served my obligatory
                        sentence as
                        > a Naval Officer, including two tours in Viet Nam. During that period I
                        > became a fan of the writings of a various mystics, most especially Alan
                        > Watts. I spent my last tour in San Diego where I broadened my
                        interests to
                        > other writers, including Lawrence LeShan, Jane Roberts, Edgar Cayce,
                        > Ouspenski, etc. I attended as many lectures and classes on psychic
                        > phenomenon and similar topics as I could; I also took up Yoga,
                        studied as
                        > many religions, philosophies, and practiced as many exercises as my
                        little
                        > mind could endure. I have had enough psychic experiences to know
                        that they
                        > are genuine, and believe strongly in the value of meditation.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I am currently a Senior Software Engineer living alone in Los Angeles,
                        > California.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I have attempted through the years to be self-critical so as to assure
                        > steady, balanced, growth, yet have succeeded in experiencing my share of
                        > madness and "folly". I continue to strive for enough stability to be
                        > meaningful, without losing the ability to explore interesting new ideas.
                        > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by which I
                        assure my
                        > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred North
                        > Whitehead:
                        >
                        > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-satisfied
                        > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history cherishes the
                        > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics and
                        > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are the
                        leading
                        > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is
                        barred.
                        > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure. The
                        > Universe is vast."
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I look forward to hearing from those of you willing to share your
                        ideas and
                        > experiences.
                        >
                        > Jim
                        >
                      • carolina112900
                        ... Hello Jim, I enjoyed reading your introduction and glad you shared some of your story. ... you, but ... attempt to do ... attendee of a ... University of
                        Message 11 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
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                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark"
                          <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                          > Hello group,
                          >

                          Hello Jim,

                          I enjoyed reading your introduction
                          and glad you shared some of your
                          story.

                          >
                          >
                          > As your newest addition to this society, I don't know much about
                          you, but
                          > just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall
                          attempt to do
                          > so.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I was born in 1948, grew up in Oklahoma City, a fairly regular
                          attendee of a
                          > Southern Baptist Church until I went away to college at the
                          University of
                          > Texas at Austin as a Math Major. My attendance was made possible
                          via an
                          > NROTC scholarship; thus, after graduating I served my obligatory
                          sentence as
                          > a Naval Officer, including two tours in Viet Nam. During that
                          period I
                          > became a fan of the writings of a various mystics, most especially
                          Alan
                          > Watts. I spent my last tour in San Diego where I broadened my
                          interests to
                          > other writers, including Lawrence LeShan, Jane Roberts, Edgar Cayce,
                          > Ouspenski, etc. I attended as many lectures and classes on psychic
                          > phenomenon and similar topics as I could; I also took up Yoga,
                          studied as
                          > many religions, philosophies, and practiced as many exercises as my
                          little
                          > mind could endure. I have had enough psychic experiences to know
                          that they
                          > are genuine, and believe strongly in the value of meditation.
                          >


                          Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                          psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                          think that they mean anything other than
                          what the basic human senses provide?

                          What do you feel is the value of meditation?


                          >
                          >
                          > I am currently a Senior Software Engineer living alone in Los
                          Angeles,
                          > California.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I have attempted through the years to be self-critical so as to
                          assure
                          > steady, balanced, growth, yet have succeeded in experiencing my
                          share of
                          > madness and "folly". I continue to strive for enough stability to be
                          > meaningful, without losing the ability to explore interesting new
                          ideas.

                          > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by which I
                          assure my
                          > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                          >

                          That is interesting how you put that.
                          And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                          Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                          off as a result of your tolerance?
                          How do you know they are pissed off?
                          It is always interesting to me how we
                          interpret other's reactions.



                          >
                          >
                          > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred
                          North
                          > Whitehead:
                          >
                          > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                          satisfied
                          > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                          cherishes the
                          > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics
                          and
                          > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are the
                          leading
                          > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is
                          barred.
                          > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure.
                          The
                          > Universe is vast."
                          >

                          I would love to hear more about why this
                          is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                          to you?

                          Thank you and welcome, Jim

                          blessings,

                          Freyja


                          >
                          >
                          > I look forward to hearing from those of you willing to share your
                          ideas and
                          > experiences.
                          >
                          > Jim
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                          Service.
                        • Swami-G
                          ... which I assure my continued ability to piss virtually everyone off. SG: why do you see this as an ability to piss everyone off ? this is an interesting
                          Message 12 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
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                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim
                            Clark" <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                            > Hello group,
                            >

                            > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                            which I assure my continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.

                            SG: why do you see this as an ability to piss everyone off ?

                            this is an interesting statement .....

                            Om in love
                          • jimedclark
                            Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome. ... Can you talk more about your knowledge that ... Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five
                            Message 13 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
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                              Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.

                              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "carolina112900"
                              <freyjartist@a...> wrote:

                              > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark" >
                              Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                              > psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                              > think that they mean anything other than
                              > what the basic human senses provide?

                              Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five senses. I
                              assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be with
                              regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my mind.

                              Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to my
                              readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of these
                              events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a much
                              bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and that
                              our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence LeShann
                              pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a New Theory
                              of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly common
                              among students who performed mental work under Zen Masters, for
                              example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects" as means
                              by which our lower selves distract us from the more important goal of
                              the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:

                              > What do you feel is the value of meditation?

                              Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to bring
                              us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person whose
                              actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather than on
                              mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the software
                              engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                              our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and low
                              priority interrupts.


                              > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by which
                              I
                              > assure my
                              > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                              > >
                              >
                              > That is interesting how you put that.
                              > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                              > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                              > off as a result of your tolerance?
                              > How do you know they are pissed off?
                              > It is always interesting to me how we
                              > interpret other's reactions.

                              I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                              many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep my ideas
                              to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                              scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too mystical
                              for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with those
                              who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of others,
                              and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo said, "The
                              more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its opposite
                              screams for acknowledgement."

                              What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on which
                              group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me with
                              those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in the Easter
                              bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play head-games speaking
                              loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."

                              > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred
                              > North
                              > > Whitehead:
                              > >
                              > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                              > satisfied
                              > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                              > cherishes the
                              > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics
                              > and
                              > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are
                              the
                              > leading
                              > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is
                              > barred.
                              > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure.
                              > The
                              > > Universe is vast."
                              > >
                              >
                              > I would love to hear more about why this
                              > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                              > to you?
                              >
                              For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                              themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to the
                              idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find new
                              paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities; they
                              may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                              events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They then
                              insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an extension
                              of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no circumstances is
                              it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                              matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I hear
                              the same old responses I used to use when I was a well-trained
                              skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal somewhere,
                              it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I have
                              no doubt that this view is reciprocated.

                              Best regards,

                              Jim
                            • Swami-G
                              ... carolina112900 ... Clark ... senses. I ... with ... mind. ... my ... these ... much ... that ... LeShann ... New Theory ... common ... Masters, for
                              Message 14 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                "jimedclark" <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                                > Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.
                                >
                                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                "carolina112900"
                                > <freyjartist@a...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim
                                Clark" >
                                > Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                                > > psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                                > > think that they mean anything other than
                                > > what the basic human senses provide?
                                >
                                > Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five
                                senses. I
                                > assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be
                                with
                                > regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my
                                mind.
                                >
                                > Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to
                                my
                                > readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of
                                these
                                > events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a
                                much
                                > bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and
                                that
                                > our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence
                                LeShann
                                > pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a
                                New Theory
                                > of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly
                                common
                                > among students who performed mental work under Zen
                                Masters, for
                                > example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects"
                                as means
                                > by which our lower selves distract us from the more important
                                goal of
                                > the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:
                                >
                                > > What do you feel is the value of meditation?
                                >
                                > Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to
                                bring
                                > us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person
                                whose
                                > actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather
                                than on
                                > mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the
                                software
                                > engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                                > our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and
                                low
                                > priority interrupts.
                                >
                                >
                                > > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                                which
                                > I
                                > > assure my
                                > > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > That is interesting how you put that.
                                > > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                                > > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                                > > off as a result of your tolerance?
                                > > How do you know they are pissed off?
                                > > It is always interesting to me how we
                                > > interpret other's reactions.
                                >
                                > I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                                > many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep
                                my ideas
                                > to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                                > scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too mystical
                                > for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with
                                those
                                > who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of
                                others,
                                > and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo
                                said, "The
                                > more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its
                                opposite
                                > screams for acknowledgement."
                                >
                                > What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on
                                which
                                > group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me
                                with
                                > those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in
                                the Easter
                                > bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play
                                head-games speaking
                                > loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."
                                >
                                > > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher
                                Alfred
                                > > North
                                > > > Whitehead:
                                > > >
                                > > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the
                                self-
                                > > satisfied
                                > > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                                > > cherishes the
                                > > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge.
                                Skeptics
                                > > and
                                > > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics
                                are
                                > the
                                > > leading
                                > > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental
                                novelty is
                                > > barred.
                                > > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic
                                adventure.
                                > > The
                                > > > Universe is vast."
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > I would love to hear more about why this
                                > > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                                > > to you?
                                > >
                                > For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                                > themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to
                                the
                                > idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find
                                new
                                > paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities;
                                they
                                > may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                                > events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They
                                then
                                > insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an
                                extension
                                > of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no
                                circumstances is
                                > it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                                > matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I
                                hear
                                > the same old responses I used to use when I was a
                                well-trained
                                > skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal
                                somewhere,
                                > it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I
                                have
                                > no doubt that this view is reciprocated.
                                >
                                > Best regards,
                                >
                                > Jim


                                SG: wherever your attention is pointing that is the avenue
                                open for exploration..... from that point of openness
                                the creative mind expands.......

                                or the avenue willing to be heard as it is the point of
                                referance for that conditional self image ........ if it holds
                                ones self image in place then it is the *right* one......

                                sometimes one exchanges one set of conditioned
                                response for another......

                                eventually they begin to crumble in the light of day and
                                a whole new paradigm emerges .......

                                as long as revolving phenomena is the focal point
                                then there is no stable point of referance other than the
                                current set of belief's and one is apt
                                to do this motion of standing on a roller board
                                identity while juggling the latest mental conceptulization...

                                meditation stops the frenetic action..... the juggling
                                stops....... one steps off the board and begins to
                                see what has always been right here ...... it comes into
                                focus and clarity now that the attention isn't being
                                diverted to image balance or mental jugglings......

                                what is left ? just walking and enjoying the freedom
                                of being unencumbered by the juggling act ......
                              • carolina112900
                                Jim, Thank you for taking the time to expand on these topics. We all have a story/stories :-) As Joan Tollifson wrote, Stories make apparent sense out of what
                                Message 15 of 21 , Oct 31, 2003
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Jim,

                                  Thank you for taking the time
                                  to expand on these topics.

                                  We all have a story/stories :-)

                                  As Joan Tollifson wrote,

                                  "Stories make apparent sense out of
                                  what would otherwise be incomprehensible.
                                  They give meaning and importance to the
                                  fiction of myself and all that I identify
                                  with: my family, my civilization, my
                                  ethnic group, my political leanings, my
                                  sexual orientation, my subculture, my
                                  gender, my generation. Stories are entertaining.
                                  God apparently enjoys drama, play, hide and seek,
                                  lost and found.

                                  Sometimes a story helps to expose and dissolve
                                  limitations; sometimes it creates and reinforces
                                  them. Stories can lull us to sleep or wake us
                                  up, reveal truth or conceal it. The same story
                                  can serve different functions at different moments.
                                  It's a great art to discern when a story can serve
                                  different functions at different moments. It's
                                  a great art to discern when a story is breaking
                                  open the heart and waking us up, and when it is
                                  lulling us to sleep, perpetuating illusion and
                                  generating suffering. Likewise, it is a
                                  great art to discern the difference between
                                  actuality and concept. The conceptual filters
                                  through which we think about everything are so
                                  ubiquitous and so seemingly real that it's easy
                                  to mistake them for actuality. No separate,
                                  independent, solid thing really exists, except,
                                  apparently, in the story."


                                  Your presence is a nice addition here.

                                  cheers,
                                  Freyja


                                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jimedclark"
                                  <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                                  > Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.
                                  >
                                  > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "carolina112900"
                                  > <freyjartist@a...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark" >
                                  > Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                                  > > psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                                  > > think that they mean anything other than
                                  > > what the basic human senses provide?
                                  >
                                  > Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five senses. I
                                  > assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be with
                                  > regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my
                                  mind.
                                  >
                                  > Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to my
                                  > readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of
                                  these
                                  > events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a
                                  much
                                  > bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and that
                                  > our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence LeShann
                                  > pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a New
                                  Theory
                                  > of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly common
                                  > among students who performed mental work under Zen Masters, for
                                  > example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects" as
                                  means
                                  > by which our lower selves distract us from the more important goal
                                  of
                                  > the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:
                                  >
                                  > > What do you feel is the value of meditation?
                                  >
                                  > Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to bring
                                  > us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person whose
                                  > actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather than on
                                  > mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the software
                                  > engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                                  > our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and low
                                  > priority interrupts.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                                  which
                                  > I
                                  > > assure my
                                  > > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > > That is interesting how you put that.
                                  > > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                                  > > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                                  > > off as a result of your tolerance?
                                  > > How do you know they are pissed off?
                                  > > It is always interesting to me how we
                                  > > interpret other's reactions.
                                  >
                                  > I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                                  > many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep my
                                  ideas
                                  > to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                                  > scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too
                                  mystical
                                  > for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with those
                                  > who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of others,
                                  > and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo
                                  said, "The
                                  > more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its
                                  opposite
                                  > screams for acknowledgement."
                                  >
                                  > What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on which
                                  > group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me with
                                  > those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in the
                                  Easter
                                  > bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play head-games
                                  speaking
                                  > loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."
                                  >
                                  > > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher
                                  Alfred
                                  > > North
                                  > > > Whitehead:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                                  > > satisfied
                                  > > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                                  > > cherishes the
                                  > > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge.
                                  Skeptics
                                  > > and
                                  > > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are
                                  > the
                                  > > leading
                                  > > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty
                                  is
                                  > > barred.
                                  > > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic
                                  adventure.
                                  > > The
                                  > > > Universe is vast."
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > > I would love to hear more about why this
                                  > > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                                  > > to you?
                                  > >
                                  > For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                                  > themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to the
                                  > idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find
                                  new
                                  > paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities; they
                                  > may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                                  > events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They
                                  then
                                  > insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an
                                  extension
                                  > of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no circumstances is
                                  > it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                                  > matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I
                                  hear
                                  > the same old responses I used to use when I was a well-trained
                                  > skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal somewhere,
                                  > it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I
                                  have
                                  > no doubt that this view is reciprocated.
                                  >
                                  > Best regards,
                                  >
                                  > Jim
                                • Jim Clark
                                  Freyja, Thanks. I am hoping to hear stories from others here. I ve heard many from others over the years and they never cease to fascinate me. Jim ... From:
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Oct 31, 2003
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Freyja,
                                     
                                    Thanks. I am hoping to hear stories from others here. I've heard many from others over the years and they never cease to fascinate me.
                                     
                                    Jim
                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: carolina112900 [mailto:freyjartist@...]
                                    Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 4:22 AM
                                    To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Picture

                                    Jim,

                                    Thank you for taking the time
                                    to expand on these topics.

                                    We all have a story/stories :-)

                                    As Joan Tollifson wrote,

                                    "Stories make apparent sense out of
                                    what would otherwise be incomprehensible.
                                    They give meaning and importance to the
                                    fiction of myself and all that I identify
                                    with: my family, my civilization, my
                                    ethnic group, my political leanings, my
                                    sexual orientation, my subculture, my
                                    gender, my generation.  Stories are entertaining.
                                    God apparently enjoys drama, play, hide and seek,
                                    lost and found.

                                    Sometimes a story helps to expose and dissolve
                                    limitations; sometimes it creates and reinforces
                                    them.  Stories can lull us to sleep or wake us
                                    up, reveal truth or conceal it.   The same story
                                    can serve different functions at different moments.
                                    It's a great art to discern when a story can serve
                                    different functions at different moments.  It's
                                    a great art to discern when a story is breaking
                                    open the heart and waking us up, and when it is
                                    lulling us to sleep, perpetuating illusion and
                                    generating suffering.  Likewise, it is a
                                    great art to discern the difference between
                                    actuality and concept.  The conceptual filters
                                    through which we think about everything are so
                                    ubiquitous and so seemingly real that it's easy
                                    to mistake them for actuality.  No separate,
                                    independent, solid thing really exists, except,
                                    apparently, in the story."


                                    Your presence is a nice addition here.

                                    cheers,
                                    Freyja 


                                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jimedclark"
                                    <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                                    > Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.
                                    >
                                    > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "carolina112900"
                                    > <freyjartist@a...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark" >
                                    > Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                                    > > psychic experiences are genuine.  Do you
                                    > > think that they mean anything other than
                                    > > what the basic human senses provide?
                                    >
                                    > Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five senses. I
                                    > assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be with
                                    > regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my
                                    mind.
                                    >
                                    > Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to my
                                    > readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of
                                    these
                                    > events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a
                                    much
                                    > bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and that
                                    > our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence LeShann
                                    > pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a New
                                    Theory
                                    > of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly common
                                    > among students who performed mental work under Zen Masters, for
                                    > example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects" as
                                    means
                                    > by which our lower selves distract us from the more important goal
                                    of
                                    > the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:
                                    >
                                    > > What do you feel is the value of meditation?
                                    >
                                    > Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to bring
                                    > us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person whose
                                    > actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather than on
                                    > mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the software
                                    > engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                                    > our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and low
                                    > priority interrupts.


                                    > > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                                    which
                                    > I
                                    > > assure my
                                    > > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > That is interesting how you put that.
                                    > > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                                    > > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                                    > > off as a result of your tolerance?
                                    > > How do you know they are pissed off?
                                    > > It is always interesting to me how we
                                    > > interpret other's reactions.
                                    >
                                    > I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                                    > many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep my
                                    ideas
                                    > to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                                    > scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too
                                    mystical
                                    > for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with those
                                    > who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of others,
                                    > and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo
                                    said, "The
                                    > more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its
                                    opposite
                                    > screams for acknowledgement."
                                    >
                                    > What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on which
                                    > group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me with
                                    > those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in the
                                    Easter
                                    > bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play head-games
                                    speaking
                                    > loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."

                                    > > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher
                                    Alfred
                                    > > North
                                    > > > Whitehead:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                                    > > satisfied
                                    > > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                                    > > cherishes the
                                    > > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge.
                                    Skeptics
                                    > > and
                                    > > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are
                                    > the
                                    > > leading
                                    > > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty
                                    is
                                    > > barred.
                                    > > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic
                                    adventure.
                                    > > The
                                    > > > Universe is vast."
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > I would love to hear more about why this
                                    > > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                                    > > to you?
                                    > >
                                    > For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                                    > themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to the
                                    > idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find
                                    new
                                    > paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities; they
                                    > may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                                    > events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They
                                    then
                                    > insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an
                                    extension
                                    > of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no circumstances is
                                    > it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                                    > matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I
                                    hear
                                    > the same old responses I used to use when I was a well-trained
                                    > skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal somewhere,
                                    > it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I
                                    have
                                    > no doubt that this view is reciprocated.
                                    >
                                    > Best regards,
                                    >
                                    > Jim



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                                  • Sandy
                                    Welcome Jim, I am new to the list as well, and also live in So. CA. I think this is going to be a great list to be part of. Hugs, Sandy
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Nov 5, 2003
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Welcome Jim, I am new to the list as well, and also live in So. CA. I
                                      think this is going to be a great list to be part of.

                                      Hugs,

                                      Sandy
                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.