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Re: Picture

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  • texasbg2000
    ... story ... Hi Onniko: A little bit of a story. Melody and I were corresponding at the same time I was finishing that painting. I needed a name and it
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 27, 2003
      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Onniko"
      <onniko@y...> wrote:
      > That is a cute baby. There's another picture in there I noticed; an
      > interesting painting called Melody on the Mountain. Is there a
      story
      > behind that?

      Hi Onniko:

      A little bit of a story. Melody and I were corresponding at the same
      time I was finishing that painting. I needed a name and it seemed
      right. It was the right note of mystery and the excahge was very
      beautiful.

      I was painting here in my hometown in Texas and spied the little girl
      and her sister playing with a new puppy. They were playing around me
      while I painted and I took a photo to remember. The painting was a
      blessing.

      Love,
      Bobby G.
    • devianandi
      ... same ... girl ... me ... devi: bobby, i was blown away by your paintings...and after looking at all yours i went to your teachers site and was blown away
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 27, 2003
        >
        > A little bit of a story. Melody and I were corresponding at the
        same
        > time I was finishing that painting. I needed a name and it seemed
        > right. It was the right note of mystery and the excahge was very
        > beautiful.
        >
        > I was painting here in my hometown in Texas and spied the little
        girl
        > and her sister playing with a new puppy. They were playing around
        me
        > while I painted and I took a photo to remember. The painting was a
        > blessing.
        >
        > Love,
        > Bobby G.

        devi: bobby, i was blown away by your paintings...and after looking
        at all yours i went to your teachers site and was blown away again..i
        wish i could take some lessons from you....so inspiring...a painter
        and a yogi.
      • texasbg2000
        ... seemed ... around ... a ... again..i ... Thanks Devi. Here is the advice. Keep meditatiing and keep painting. If the universed wants you to get better
        Message 3 of 21 , Oct 27, 2003
          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
          <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > A little bit of a story. Melody and I were corresponding at the
          > same
          > > time I was finishing that painting. I needed a name and it
          seemed
          > > right. It was the right note of mystery and the excahge was very
          > > beautiful.
          > >
          > > I was painting here in my hometown in Texas and spied the little
          > girl
          > > and her sister playing with a new puppy. They were playing
          around
          > me
          > > while I painted and I took a photo to remember. The painting was
          a
          > > blessing.
          > >
          > > Love,
          > > Bobby G.
          >
          > devi: bobby, i was blown away by your paintings...and after looking
          > at all yours i went to your teachers site and was blown away
          again..i
          > wish i could take some lessons from you....so inspiring...a painter
          > and a yogi.

          Thanks Devi. Here is the advice. Keep meditatiing and keep
          painting. If the universed wants you to get better you will.

          Love
          Bobby G.
        • Onniko
          ... Thanks for the site address, Bob. Bobby G, I love your paintings. I added the address to my favorites list. The one in the photo album here caught my
          Message 4 of 21 , Oct 27, 2003
            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety

            Thanks for the site address, Bob. Bobby G, I love your paintings. I
            added the address to my favorites list. The one in the photo album
            here caught my attention and I found myself kind of mesmerized by
            it, not just the interesting kind of mysterious quality but also I
            just really liked the way it was painted. It's a very sensuous
            realism that a viewer can just wrap their tactile brain around and
            step right into your beautiful world.




            <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Onniko"
            > <onniko@y...> wrote:
            > > That is a cute baby. There's another picture in there I noticed;
            an
            > > interesting painting called Melody on the Mountain. Is there a
            story
            > > behind that?
            >
            > Dear Onniko,
            > It's by Bobby G, and yes, I think is dedicated to and
            > named after the same Melody who posts on several internet
            > groups dealing with consciousness. More of Bobby G's
            > great art can be found at his site
            > http://www.mentaltree.com/
          • texasbg2000
            ... Thank you Onniko. I will hold your warm words close on the cold nights to come. Love Bobby G. ... noticed;
            Message 5 of 21 , Oct 27, 2003
              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Onniko"
              <onniko@y...> wrote:
              > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
              >
              > Thanks for the site address, Bob. Bobby G, I love your paintings. I
              > added the address to my favorites list. The one in the photo album
              > here caught my attention and I found myself kind of mesmerized by
              > it, not just the interesting kind of mysterious quality but also I
              > just really liked the way it was painted. It's a very sensuous
              > realism that a viewer can just wrap their tactile brain around and
              > step right into your beautiful world.

              Thank you Onniko. I will hold your warm words close on the cold
              nights to come.

              Love
              Bobby G.



              >
              >
              >
              >
              > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Onniko"
              > > <onniko@y...> wrote:
              > > > That is a cute baby. There's another picture in there I
              noticed;
              > an
              > > > interesting painting called Melody on the Mountain. Is there a
              > story
              > > > behind that?
              > >
              > > Dear Onniko,
              > > It's by Bobby G, and yes, I think is dedicated to and
              > > named after the same Melody who posts on several internet
              > > groups dealing with consciousness. More of Bobby G's
              > > great art can be found at his site
              > > http://www.mentaltree.com/
            • devianandi
              bobby: your so inspiring...a painter ... thanks bobby, thats good advice and i tell myself the same thing quite often...like i said i really need to take some
              Message 6 of 21 , Oct 28, 2003
                bobby: your so inspiring...a painter
                > > and a yogi.
                >
                > Thanks Devi. Here is the advice. Keep meditatiing and keep
                > painting. If the universed wants you to get better you will.
                >
                > Love
                > Bobby G.

                thanks bobby, thats good advice and i tell myself the same thing
                quite often...like i said i really need to take some lessons and i
                have been feeling like that for a long time, and last month, the
                universe provided me with jeanette la cru, she's becoming a popular
                painter here in norther california, who gave a free demo at a gallery
                around here,,i stood there for about two hours just watching her
                paint..(i was the only one)..hey are you interested in putting some
                of your work in a prestigous gallery in a resort and spa town here?
                i'd love to represent you in california. how about it? smiles
              • devianandi
                If God brings you to it, He will bring you through it. Happy moments, praise God. Difficult moments, seek God. Quiet moments, worship God. Painful moments,
                Message 7 of 21 , Oct 28, 2003
                  If God brings you to it, He will bring you through it.


                  Happy moments, praise God.
                  Difficult moments, seek God.
                  Quiet moments, worship God.
                  Painful moments, trust God.
                  Every moment, thank God.

                  Pass this message to seven people except you and me.
                  You will receive a miracle tomorrow (just do it)
                • texasbg2000
                  ... gallery ... Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years ago when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and then New
                  Message 8 of 21 , Oct 28, 2003
                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
                    <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                    > bobby: your so inspiring...a painter
                    > > > and a yogi.
                    > >
                    > > Thanks Devi. Here is the advice. Keep meditatiing and keep
                    > > painting. If the universed wants you to get better you will.
                    > >
                    > > Love
                    > > Bobby G.
                    >
                    > thanks bobby, thats good advice and i tell myself the same thing
                    > quite often...like i said i really need to take some lessons and i
                    > have been feeling like that for a long time, and last month, the
                    > universe provided me with jeanette la cru, she's becoming a popular
                    > painter here in norther california, who gave a free demo at a
                    gallery
                    > around here,,i stood there for about two hours just watching her
                    > paint..(i was the only one)..hey are you interested in putting some
                    > of your work in a prestigous gallery in a resort and spa town here?
                    > i'd love to represent you in california. how about it? smiles

                    Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years ago
                    when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
                    then New Mexico. so years later I still have that to do.

                    Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there where
                    you are? I still have them all, I never sell anything.
                    Bobby G.
                  • devianandi
                    ... ago ... devi: http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/ this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take a look and see if you compare..some
                    Message 9 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003
                      >
                      > Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years
                      ago
                      > when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
                      > then New Mexico. so years later I still have that to do.
                      >
                      > Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there where
                      > you are? I still have them all, I never sell anything.
                      > Bobby G.

                      devi:

                      http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/

                      this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take a
                      look and see if you compare..some of your landscapes seem *generic*,
                      in other words they look like they could be california
                      scenerey...thats a good thing...theres a lady named camille that
                      studied for five years with your teacher henshe...why haven't you
                      sold your paintings? when you paint, do you paint with the
                      thought ..what will the public buy?....i noticed that you have one
                      painiting, is it a mission,?,,it looked very good but i couldn't get
                      it enlarged,,theres a woman here gail salituri who makes a fortune
                      selling paintings of missions....are your paintings framed? do you
                      have any 9x12s?
                    • texasbg2000
                      ... where ... a ... *generic*, ... get ... Hi Devi: Thank you for looking into that and getting the link. It is not that I never sell but I seldom do. I do
                      Message 10 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003
                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
                        <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > > Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years
                        > ago
                        > > when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
                        > > then New Mexico. so years later I still have that to do.
                        > >
                        > > Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there
                        where
                        > > you are? I still have them all, I never sell anything.
                        > > Bobby G.
                        >
                        > devi:
                        >
                        > http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/
                        >
                        > this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take
                        a
                        > look and see if you compare..some of your landscapes seem
                        *generic*,
                        > in other words they look like they could be california
                        > scenerey...thats a good thing...theres a lady named camille that
                        > studied for five years with your teacher henshe...why haven't you
                        > sold your paintings? when you paint, do you paint with the
                        > thought ..what will the public buy?....i noticed that you have one
                        > painiting, is it a mission,?,,it looked very good but i couldn't
                        get
                        > it enlarged,,theres a woman here gail salituri who makes a fortune
                        > selling paintings of missions....are your paintings framed? do you
                        > have any 9x12s?

                        Hi Devi:

                        Thank you for looking into that and getting the link.

                        It is not that I never sell but I seldom do. I do mostly commissions
                        and the paintings that I post here are just for myself. I have
                        gravitated more towards the painting for myself so much now that a
                        gallery would be good. Things change you know and life is long. It
                        is good to take new directions sometimes. Perhaps that gallery will
                        want my work and I will move there for the rest of life. Who knows?

                        In fact my definition of enlightenment is knowing everything is new.

                        And yes I have lots of framed pieces. I made most of them. I like
                        frames but I am not good at making them.

                        And dozens of small pieces.

                        And large ones. I will past a large on in the photos section from
                        Arches.

                        Thanks again for your interest.

                        Love,
                        Bobby G.
                      • Jim Clark
                        Hello group, As your newest addition to this society, I don t know much about you, but just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall attempt
                        Message 11 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003

                          Hello group,

                           

                          As your newest addition to this society, I don't know much about you, but just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall attempt to do so.

                           

                          I was born in 1948, grew up in Oklahoma City, a fairly regular attendee of a Southern Baptist Church until I went away to college at the University of Texas at Austin as a Math Major. My attendance was made possible via an NROTC scholarship; thus, after graduating I served my obligatory sentence as a Naval Officer, including two tours in Viet Nam. During that period I became a fan of the writings of a various mystics, most especially Alan Watts. I spent my last tour in San Diego where I broadened my interests to other writers, including Lawrence LeShan, Jane Roberts, Edgar Cayce, Ouspenski, etc. I attended as many lectures and classes on psychic phenomenon and similar topics as I could; I also took up Yoga, studied as many religions, philosophies, and practiced as many exercises as my little mind could endure. I have had enough psychic experiences to know that they are genuine, and believe strongly in the value of meditation.

                           

                          I am currently a Senior Software Engineer living alone in Los Angeles, California.

                           

                          I have attempted through the years to be self-critical so as to assure steady, balanced, growth, yet have succeeded in experiencing my share of madness and “folly”. I continue to strive for enough stability to be meaningful, without losing the ability to explore interesting new ideas. Tolerance of everyone else’s point of view is the means by which I assure my continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.

                           

                          My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred North Whitehead:

                          “The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-satisfied dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history cherishes the delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics and believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are the leading dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is barred. This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure. The Universe is vast.”

                           

                          I look forward to hearing from those of you willing to share your ideas and experiences.
                           
                          Jim
                           -----Original Message-----
                          From: texasbg2000 [mailto:Bigbobgraham@...]
                          Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 5:58 PM
                          To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Picture

                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
                          <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          > > Northern Cal sounds great.  I was off to visit Oregon Four years
                          > ago
                          > > when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
                          > > then New Mexico.  so years later I still have that to do. 
                          > >
                          > > Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there
                          where
                          > > you are?  I still have them all, I never sell anything.
                          > > Bobby G.
                          >
                          > devi:
                          >
                          > http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/
                          >
                          > this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take
                          a
                          > look and see if you compare..some of your landscapes seem
                          *generic*,
                          > in other words they look like they could be california
                          > scenerey...thats a good thing...theres a lady named camille that
                          > studied for five years with your teacher henshe...why haven't you
                          > sold your paintings? when you paint, do you paint with the
                          > thought ..what will the public buy?....i noticed that you have one
                          > painiting, is it a mission,?,,it looked very good but i couldn't
                          get
                          > it enlarged,,theres a woman here gail salituri who makes a fortune
                          > selling paintings of missions....are your paintings framed? do you
                          > have any 9x12s?

                          Hi Devi:

                          Thank you for looking into that and getting the link. 

                          It is not that I never sell but I seldom do.  I do mostly commissions
                          and the paintings that I post here are just for myself.  I have
                          gravitated more towards the painting for myself so much now that a
                          gallery would be good.  Things change you know and life is long.  It
                          is good to take new directions sometimes.  Perhaps that gallery will
                          want my work and I will move there for the rest of life.  Who knows?

                          In fact my definition of enlightenment is knowing everything is new.

                          And yes I have lots of framed pieces. I made most of them. I like
                          frames but I am not good at making them. 

                          And dozens of small pieces.

                          And large ones.  I will past a large on in the photos section from
                          Arches.

                          Thanks again for your interest.

                          Love,
                          Bobby G.










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                          meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                        • medit8ionsociety
                          Dear Jim, I really enjoyed your intro, and appreciate all you so eloquently shared. The quote by Whitehead is new to me, and it s A quality. Actually,
                          Message 12 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003
                            Dear Jim,
                            I really enjoyed your intro, and appreciate all you so eloquently
                            shared. The quote by Whitehead is new to me, and it's "A" quality.
                            Actually, although it's very "deep", it also made me smile as I
                            witnessed it bringing thoughts similar to "Tell it like it is
                            brother!" to mind. Anyway, I hope this is just the start of an ongoing
                            mutual exploration of consciousness evolution, or some similar
                            adjective. I'm glad you're here. Welcome.
                            Peace and blessings,
                            Bob

                            "Jim Clark" <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                            > Hello group,
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > As your newest addition to this society, I don't know much about
                            you, but
                            > just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall
                            attempt to do
                            > so.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I was born in 1948, grew up in Oklahoma City, a fairly regular
                            attendee of a
                            > Southern Baptist Church until I went away to college at the
                            University of
                            > Texas at Austin as a Math Major. My attendance was made possible via an
                            > NROTC scholarship; thus, after graduating I served my obligatory
                            sentence as
                            > a Naval Officer, including two tours in Viet Nam. During that period I
                            > became a fan of the writings of a various mystics, most especially Alan
                            > Watts. I spent my last tour in San Diego where I broadened my
                            interests to
                            > other writers, including Lawrence LeShan, Jane Roberts, Edgar Cayce,
                            > Ouspenski, etc. I attended as many lectures and classes on psychic
                            > phenomenon and similar topics as I could; I also took up Yoga,
                            studied as
                            > many religions, philosophies, and practiced as many exercises as my
                            little
                            > mind could endure. I have had enough psychic experiences to know
                            that they
                            > are genuine, and believe strongly in the value of meditation.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I am currently a Senior Software Engineer living alone in Los Angeles,
                            > California.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I have attempted through the years to be self-critical so as to assure
                            > steady, balanced, growth, yet have succeeded in experiencing my share of
                            > madness and "folly". I continue to strive for enough stability to be
                            > meaningful, without losing the ability to explore interesting new ideas.
                            > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by which I
                            assure my
                            > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred North
                            > Whitehead:
                            >
                            > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-satisfied
                            > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history cherishes the
                            > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics and
                            > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are the
                            leading
                            > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is
                            barred.
                            > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure. The
                            > Universe is vast."
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I look forward to hearing from those of you willing to share your
                            ideas and
                            > experiences.
                            >
                            > Jim
                            >
                          • carolina112900
                            ... Hello Jim, I enjoyed reading your introduction and glad you shared some of your story. ... you, but ... attempt to do ... attendee of a ... University of
                            Message 13 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
                              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark"
                              <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                              > Hello group,
                              >

                              Hello Jim,

                              I enjoyed reading your introduction
                              and glad you shared some of your
                              story.

                              >
                              >
                              > As your newest addition to this society, I don't know much about
                              you, but
                              > just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall
                              attempt to do
                              > so.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I was born in 1948, grew up in Oklahoma City, a fairly regular
                              attendee of a
                              > Southern Baptist Church until I went away to college at the
                              University of
                              > Texas at Austin as a Math Major. My attendance was made possible
                              via an
                              > NROTC scholarship; thus, after graduating I served my obligatory
                              sentence as
                              > a Naval Officer, including two tours in Viet Nam. During that
                              period I
                              > became a fan of the writings of a various mystics, most especially
                              Alan
                              > Watts. I spent my last tour in San Diego where I broadened my
                              interests to
                              > other writers, including Lawrence LeShan, Jane Roberts, Edgar Cayce,
                              > Ouspenski, etc. I attended as many lectures and classes on psychic
                              > phenomenon and similar topics as I could; I also took up Yoga,
                              studied as
                              > many religions, philosophies, and practiced as many exercises as my
                              little
                              > mind could endure. I have had enough psychic experiences to know
                              that they
                              > are genuine, and believe strongly in the value of meditation.
                              >


                              Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                              psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                              think that they mean anything other than
                              what the basic human senses provide?

                              What do you feel is the value of meditation?


                              >
                              >
                              > I am currently a Senior Software Engineer living alone in Los
                              Angeles,
                              > California.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I have attempted through the years to be self-critical so as to
                              assure
                              > steady, balanced, growth, yet have succeeded in experiencing my
                              share of
                              > madness and "folly". I continue to strive for enough stability to be
                              > meaningful, without losing the ability to explore interesting new
                              ideas.

                              > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by which I
                              assure my
                              > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                              >

                              That is interesting how you put that.
                              And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                              Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                              off as a result of your tolerance?
                              How do you know they are pissed off?
                              It is always interesting to me how we
                              interpret other's reactions.



                              >
                              >
                              > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred
                              North
                              > Whitehead:
                              >
                              > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                              satisfied
                              > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                              cherishes the
                              > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics
                              and
                              > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are the
                              leading
                              > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is
                              barred.
                              > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure.
                              The
                              > Universe is vast."
                              >

                              I would love to hear more about why this
                              is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                              to you?

                              Thank you and welcome, Jim

                              blessings,

                              Freyja


                              >
                              >
                              > I look forward to hearing from those of you willing to share your
                              ideas and
                              > experiences.
                              >
                              > Jim
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                              Service.
                            • Swami-G
                              ... which I assure my continued ability to piss virtually everyone off. SG: why do you see this as an ability to piss everyone off ? this is an interesting
                              Message 14 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
                                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim
                                Clark" <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                                > Hello group,
                                >

                                > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                                which I assure my continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.

                                SG: why do you see this as an ability to piss everyone off ?

                                this is an interesting statement .....

                                Om in love
                              • jimedclark
                                Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome. ... Can you talk more about your knowledge that ... Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five
                                Message 15 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
                                  Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.

                                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "carolina112900"
                                  <freyjartist@a...> wrote:

                                  > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark" >
                                  Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                                  > psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                                  > think that they mean anything other than
                                  > what the basic human senses provide?

                                  Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five senses. I
                                  assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be with
                                  regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my mind.

                                  Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to my
                                  readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of these
                                  events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a much
                                  bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and that
                                  our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence LeShann
                                  pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a New Theory
                                  of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly common
                                  among students who performed mental work under Zen Masters, for
                                  example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects" as means
                                  by which our lower selves distract us from the more important goal of
                                  the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:

                                  > What do you feel is the value of meditation?

                                  Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to bring
                                  us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person whose
                                  actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather than on
                                  mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the software
                                  engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                                  our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and low
                                  priority interrupts.


                                  > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by which
                                  I
                                  > assure my
                                  > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > That is interesting how you put that.
                                  > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                                  > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                                  > off as a result of your tolerance?
                                  > How do you know they are pissed off?
                                  > It is always interesting to me how we
                                  > interpret other's reactions.

                                  I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                                  many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep my ideas
                                  to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                                  scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too mystical
                                  for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with those
                                  who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of others,
                                  and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo said, "The
                                  more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its opposite
                                  screams for acknowledgement."

                                  What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on which
                                  group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me with
                                  those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in the Easter
                                  bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play head-games speaking
                                  loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."

                                  > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred
                                  > North
                                  > > Whitehead:
                                  > >
                                  > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                                  > satisfied
                                  > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                                  > cherishes the
                                  > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics
                                  > and
                                  > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are
                                  the
                                  > leading
                                  > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is
                                  > barred.
                                  > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure.
                                  > The
                                  > > Universe is vast."
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > I would love to hear more about why this
                                  > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                                  > to you?
                                  >
                                  For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                                  themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to the
                                  idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find new
                                  paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities; they
                                  may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                                  events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They then
                                  insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an extension
                                  of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no circumstances is
                                  it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                                  matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I hear
                                  the same old responses I used to use when I was a well-trained
                                  skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal somewhere,
                                  it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I have
                                  no doubt that this view is reciprocated.

                                  Best regards,

                                  Jim
                                • Swami-G
                                  ... carolina112900 ... Clark ... senses. I ... with ... mind. ... my ... these ... much ... that ... LeShann ... New Theory ... common ... Masters, for
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
                                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                    "jimedclark" <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                                    > Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.
                                    >
                                    > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                    "carolina112900"
                                    > <freyjartist@a...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim
                                    Clark" >
                                    > Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                                    > > psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                                    > > think that they mean anything other than
                                    > > what the basic human senses provide?
                                    >
                                    > Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five
                                    senses. I
                                    > assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be
                                    with
                                    > regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my
                                    mind.
                                    >
                                    > Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to
                                    my
                                    > readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of
                                    these
                                    > events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a
                                    much
                                    > bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and
                                    that
                                    > our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence
                                    LeShann
                                    > pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a
                                    New Theory
                                    > of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly
                                    common
                                    > among students who performed mental work under Zen
                                    Masters, for
                                    > example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects"
                                    as means
                                    > by which our lower selves distract us from the more important
                                    goal of
                                    > the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:
                                    >
                                    > > What do you feel is the value of meditation?
                                    >
                                    > Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to
                                    bring
                                    > us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person
                                    whose
                                    > actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather
                                    than on
                                    > mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the
                                    software
                                    > engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                                    > our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and
                                    low
                                    > priority interrupts.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                                    which
                                    > I
                                    > > assure my
                                    > > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > That is interesting how you put that.
                                    > > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                                    > > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                                    > > off as a result of your tolerance?
                                    > > How do you know they are pissed off?
                                    > > It is always interesting to me how we
                                    > > interpret other's reactions.
                                    >
                                    > I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                                    > many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep
                                    my ideas
                                    > to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                                    > scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too mystical
                                    > for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with
                                    those
                                    > who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of
                                    others,
                                    > and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo
                                    said, "The
                                    > more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its
                                    opposite
                                    > screams for acknowledgement."
                                    >
                                    > What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on
                                    which
                                    > group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me
                                    with
                                    > those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in
                                    the Easter
                                    > bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play
                                    head-games speaking
                                    > loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."
                                    >
                                    > > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher
                                    Alfred
                                    > > North
                                    > > > Whitehead:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the
                                    self-
                                    > > satisfied
                                    > > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                                    > > cherishes the
                                    > > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge.
                                    Skeptics
                                    > > and
                                    > > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics
                                    are
                                    > the
                                    > > leading
                                    > > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental
                                    novelty is
                                    > > barred.
                                    > > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic
                                    adventure.
                                    > > The
                                    > > > Universe is vast."
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > I would love to hear more about why this
                                    > > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                                    > > to you?
                                    > >
                                    > For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                                    > themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to
                                    the
                                    > idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find
                                    new
                                    > paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities;
                                    they
                                    > may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                                    > events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They
                                    then
                                    > insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an
                                    extension
                                    > of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no
                                    circumstances is
                                    > it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                                    > matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I
                                    hear
                                    > the same old responses I used to use when I was a
                                    well-trained
                                    > skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal
                                    somewhere,
                                    > it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I
                                    have
                                    > no doubt that this view is reciprocated.
                                    >
                                    > Best regards,
                                    >
                                    > Jim


                                    SG: wherever your attention is pointing that is the avenue
                                    open for exploration..... from that point of openness
                                    the creative mind expands.......

                                    or the avenue willing to be heard as it is the point of
                                    referance for that conditional self image ........ if it holds
                                    ones self image in place then it is the *right* one......

                                    sometimes one exchanges one set of conditioned
                                    response for another......

                                    eventually they begin to crumble in the light of day and
                                    a whole new paradigm emerges .......

                                    as long as revolving phenomena is the focal point
                                    then there is no stable point of referance other than the
                                    current set of belief's and one is apt
                                    to do this motion of standing on a roller board
                                    identity while juggling the latest mental conceptulization...

                                    meditation stops the frenetic action..... the juggling
                                    stops....... one steps off the board and begins to
                                    see what has always been right here ...... it comes into
                                    focus and clarity now that the attention isn't being
                                    diverted to image balance or mental jugglings......

                                    what is left ? just walking and enjoying the freedom
                                    of being unencumbered by the juggling act ......
                                  • carolina112900
                                    Jim, Thank you for taking the time to expand on these topics. We all have a story/stories :-) As Joan Tollifson wrote, Stories make apparent sense out of what
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Oct 31, 2003
                                      Jim,

                                      Thank you for taking the time
                                      to expand on these topics.

                                      We all have a story/stories :-)

                                      As Joan Tollifson wrote,

                                      "Stories make apparent sense out of
                                      what would otherwise be incomprehensible.
                                      They give meaning and importance to the
                                      fiction of myself and all that I identify
                                      with: my family, my civilization, my
                                      ethnic group, my political leanings, my
                                      sexual orientation, my subculture, my
                                      gender, my generation. Stories are entertaining.
                                      God apparently enjoys drama, play, hide and seek,
                                      lost and found.

                                      Sometimes a story helps to expose and dissolve
                                      limitations; sometimes it creates and reinforces
                                      them. Stories can lull us to sleep or wake us
                                      up, reveal truth or conceal it. The same story
                                      can serve different functions at different moments.
                                      It's a great art to discern when a story can serve
                                      different functions at different moments. It's
                                      a great art to discern when a story is breaking
                                      open the heart and waking us up, and when it is
                                      lulling us to sleep, perpetuating illusion and
                                      generating suffering. Likewise, it is a
                                      great art to discern the difference between
                                      actuality and concept. The conceptual filters
                                      through which we think about everything are so
                                      ubiquitous and so seemingly real that it's easy
                                      to mistake them for actuality. No separate,
                                      independent, solid thing really exists, except,
                                      apparently, in the story."


                                      Your presence is a nice addition here.

                                      cheers,
                                      Freyja


                                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jimedclark"
                                      <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                                      > Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.
                                      >
                                      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "carolina112900"
                                      > <freyjartist@a...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark" >
                                      > Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                                      > > psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                                      > > think that they mean anything other than
                                      > > what the basic human senses provide?
                                      >
                                      > Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five senses. I
                                      > assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be with
                                      > regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my
                                      mind.
                                      >
                                      > Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to my
                                      > readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of
                                      these
                                      > events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a
                                      much
                                      > bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and that
                                      > our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence LeShann
                                      > pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a New
                                      Theory
                                      > of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly common
                                      > among students who performed mental work under Zen Masters, for
                                      > example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects" as
                                      means
                                      > by which our lower selves distract us from the more important goal
                                      of
                                      > the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:
                                      >
                                      > > What do you feel is the value of meditation?
                                      >
                                      > Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to bring
                                      > us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person whose
                                      > actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather than on
                                      > mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the software
                                      > engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                                      > our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and low
                                      > priority interrupts.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                                      which
                                      > I
                                      > > assure my
                                      > > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > > That is interesting how you put that.
                                      > > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                                      > > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                                      > > off as a result of your tolerance?
                                      > > How do you know they are pissed off?
                                      > > It is always interesting to me how we
                                      > > interpret other's reactions.
                                      >
                                      > I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                                      > many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep my
                                      ideas
                                      > to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                                      > scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too
                                      mystical
                                      > for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with those
                                      > who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of others,
                                      > and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo
                                      said, "The
                                      > more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its
                                      opposite
                                      > screams for acknowledgement."
                                      >
                                      > What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on which
                                      > group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me with
                                      > those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in the
                                      Easter
                                      > bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play head-games
                                      speaking
                                      > loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."
                                      >
                                      > > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher
                                      Alfred
                                      > > North
                                      > > > Whitehead:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                                      > > satisfied
                                      > > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                                      > > cherishes the
                                      > > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge.
                                      Skeptics
                                      > > and
                                      > > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are
                                      > the
                                      > > leading
                                      > > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty
                                      is
                                      > > barred.
                                      > > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic
                                      adventure.
                                      > > The
                                      > > > Universe is vast."
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > > I would love to hear more about why this
                                      > > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                                      > > to you?
                                      > >
                                      > For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                                      > themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to the
                                      > idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find
                                      new
                                      > paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities; they
                                      > may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                                      > events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They
                                      then
                                      > insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an
                                      extension
                                      > of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no circumstances is
                                      > it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                                      > matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I
                                      hear
                                      > the same old responses I used to use when I was a well-trained
                                      > skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal somewhere,
                                      > it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I
                                      have
                                      > no doubt that this view is reciprocated.
                                      >
                                      > Best regards,
                                      >
                                      > Jim
                                    • Jim Clark
                                      Freyja, Thanks. I am hoping to hear stories from others here. I ve heard many from others over the years and they never cease to fascinate me. Jim ... From:
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Oct 31, 2003
                                        Freyja,
                                         
                                        Thanks. I am hoping to hear stories from others here. I've heard many from others over the years and they never cease to fascinate me.
                                         
                                        Jim
                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: carolina112900 [mailto:freyjartist@...]
                                        Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 4:22 AM
                                        To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Picture

                                        Jim,

                                        Thank you for taking the time
                                        to expand on these topics.

                                        We all have a story/stories :-)

                                        As Joan Tollifson wrote,

                                        "Stories make apparent sense out of
                                        what would otherwise be incomprehensible.
                                        They give meaning and importance to the
                                        fiction of myself and all that I identify
                                        with: my family, my civilization, my
                                        ethnic group, my political leanings, my
                                        sexual orientation, my subculture, my
                                        gender, my generation.  Stories are entertaining.
                                        God apparently enjoys drama, play, hide and seek,
                                        lost and found.

                                        Sometimes a story helps to expose and dissolve
                                        limitations; sometimes it creates and reinforces
                                        them.  Stories can lull us to sleep or wake us
                                        up, reveal truth or conceal it.   The same story
                                        can serve different functions at different moments.
                                        It's a great art to discern when a story can serve
                                        different functions at different moments.  It's
                                        a great art to discern when a story is breaking
                                        open the heart and waking us up, and when it is
                                        lulling us to sleep, perpetuating illusion and
                                        generating suffering.  Likewise, it is a
                                        great art to discern the difference between
                                        actuality and concept.  The conceptual filters
                                        through which we think about everything are so
                                        ubiquitous and so seemingly real that it's easy
                                        to mistake them for actuality.  No separate,
                                        independent, solid thing really exists, except,
                                        apparently, in the story."


                                        Your presence is a nice addition here.

                                        cheers,
                                        Freyja 


                                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jimedclark"
                                        <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                                        > Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.
                                        >
                                        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "carolina112900"
                                        > <freyjartist@a...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark" >
                                        > Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                                        > > psychic experiences are genuine.  Do you
                                        > > think that they mean anything other than
                                        > > what the basic human senses provide?
                                        >
                                        > Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five senses. I
                                        > assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be with
                                        > regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my
                                        mind.
                                        >
                                        > Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to my
                                        > readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of
                                        these
                                        > events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a
                                        much
                                        > bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and that
                                        > our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence LeShann
                                        > pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a New
                                        Theory
                                        > of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly common
                                        > among students who performed mental work under Zen Masters, for
                                        > example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects" as
                                        means
                                        > by which our lower selves distract us from the more important goal
                                        of
                                        > the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:
                                        >
                                        > > What do you feel is the value of meditation?
                                        >
                                        > Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to bring
                                        > us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person whose
                                        > actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather than on
                                        > mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the software
                                        > engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                                        > our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and low
                                        > priority interrupts.


                                        > > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                                        which
                                        > I
                                        > > assure my
                                        > > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > > That is interesting how you put that.
                                        > > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                                        > > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                                        > > off as a result of your tolerance?
                                        > > How do you know they are pissed off?
                                        > > It is always interesting to me how we
                                        > > interpret other's reactions.
                                        >
                                        > I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                                        > many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep my
                                        ideas
                                        > to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                                        > scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too
                                        mystical
                                        > for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with those
                                        > who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of others,
                                        > and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo
                                        said, "The
                                        > more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its
                                        opposite
                                        > screams for acknowledgement."
                                        >
                                        > What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on which
                                        > group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me with
                                        > those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in the
                                        Easter
                                        > bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play head-games
                                        speaking
                                        > loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."

                                        > > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher
                                        Alfred
                                        > > North
                                        > > > Whitehead:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                                        > > satisfied
                                        > > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                                        > > cherishes the
                                        > > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge.
                                        Skeptics
                                        > > and
                                        > > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are
                                        > the
                                        > > leading
                                        > > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty
                                        is
                                        > > barred.
                                        > > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic
                                        adventure.
                                        > > The
                                        > > > Universe is vast."
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > > I would love to hear more about why this
                                        > > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                                        > > to you?
                                        > >
                                        > For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                                        > themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to the
                                        > idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find
                                        new
                                        > paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities; they
                                        > may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                                        > events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They
                                        then
                                        > insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an
                                        extension
                                        > of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no circumstances is
                                        > it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                                        > matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I
                                        hear
                                        > the same old responses I used to use when I was a well-trained
                                        > skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal somewhere,
                                        > it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I
                                        have
                                        > no doubt that this view is reciprocated.
                                        >
                                        > Best regards,
                                        >
                                        > Jim



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                                      • Sandy
                                        Welcome Jim, I am new to the list as well, and also live in So. CA. I think this is going to be a great list to be part of. Hugs, Sandy
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Nov 5 8:01 PM
                                          Welcome Jim, I am new to the list as well, and also live in So. CA. I
                                          think this is going to be a great list to be part of.

                                          Hugs,

                                          Sandy
                                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.