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Re: Picture

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  • medit8ionsociety
    ... Dear Onniko, It s by Bobby G, and yes, I think is dedicated to and named after the same Melody who posts on several internet groups dealing with
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 27, 2003
      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Onniko"
      <onniko@y...> wrote:
      > That is a cute baby. There's another picture in there I noticed; an
      > interesting painting called Melody on the Mountain. Is there a story
      > behind that?

      Dear Onniko,
      It's by Bobby G, and yes, I think is dedicated to and
      named after the same Melody who posts on several internet
      groups dealing with consciousness. More of Bobby G's
      great art can be found at his site
      http://www.mentaltree.com/
    • texasbg2000
      ... story ... Hi Onniko: A little bit of a story. Melody and I were corresponding at the same time I was finishing that painting. I needed a name and it
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 27, 2003
        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Onniko"
        <onniko@y...> wrote:
        > That is a cute baby. There's another picture in there I noticed; an
        > interesting painting called Melody on the Mountain. Is there a
        story
        > behind that?

        Hi Onniko:

        A little bit of a story. Melody and I were corresponding at the same
        time I was finishing that painting. I needed a name and it seemed
        right. It was the right note of mystery and the excahge was very
        beautiful.

        I was painting here in my hometown in Texas and spied the little girl
        and her sister playing with a new puppy. They were playing around me
        while I painted and I took a photo to remember. The painting was a
        blessing.

        Love,
        Bobby G.
      • devianandi
        ... same ... girl ... me ... devi: bobby, i was blown away by your paintings...and after looking at all yours i went to your teachers site and was blown away
        Message 3 of 21 , Oct 27, 2003
          >
          > A little bit of a story. Melody and I were corresponding at the
          same
          > time I was finishing that painting. I needed a name and it seemed
          > right. It was the right note of mystery and the excahge was very
          > beautiful.
          >
          > I was painting here in my hometown in Texas and spied the little
          girl
          > and her sister playing with a new puppy. They were playing around
          me
          > while I painted and I took a photo to remember. The painting was a
          > blessing.
          >
          > Love,
          > Bobby G.

          devi: bobby, i was blown away by your paintings...and after looking
          at all yours i went to your teachers site and was blown away again..i
          wish i could take some lessons from you....so inspiring...a painter
          and a yogi.
        • texasbg2000
          ... seemed ... around ... a ... again..i ... Thanks Devi. Here is the advice. Keep meditatiing and keep painting. If the universed wants you to get better
          Message 4 of 21 , Oct 27, 2003
            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
            <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > A little bit of a story. Melody and I were corresponding at the
            > same
            > > time I was finishing that painting. I needed a name and it
            seemed
            > > right. It was the right note of mystery and the excahge was very
            > > beautiful.
            > >
            > > I was painting here in my hometown in Texas and spied the little
            > girl
            > > and her sister playing with a new puppy. They were playing
            around
            > me
            > > while I painted and I took a photo to remember. The painting was
            a
            > > blessing.
            > >
            > > Love,
            > > Bobby G.
            >
            > devi: bobby, i was blown away by your paintings...and after looking
            > at all yours i went to your teachers site and was blown away
            again..i
            > wish i could take some lessons from you....so inspiring...a painter
            > and a yogi.

            Thanks Devi. Here is the advice. Keep meditatiing and keep
            painting. If the universed wants you to get better you will.

            Love
            Bobby G.
          • Onniko
            ... Thanks for the site address, Bob. Bobby G, I love your paintings. I added the address to my favorites list. The one in the photo album here caught my
            Message 5 of 21 , Oct 27, 2003
              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety

              Thanks for the site address, Bob. Bobby G, I love your paintings. I
              added the address to my favorites list. The one in the photo album
              here caught my attention and I found myself kind of mesmerized by
              it, not just the interesting kind of mysterious quality but also I
              just really liked the way it was painted. It's a very sensuous
              realism that a viewer can just wrap their tactile brain around and
              step right into your beautiful world.




              <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Onniko"
              > <onniko@y...> wrote:
              > > That is a cute baby. There's another picture in there I noticed;
              an
              > > interesting painting called Melody on the Mountain. Is there a
              story
              > > behind that?
              >
              > Dear Onniko,
              > It's by Bobby G, and yes, I think is dedicated to and
              > named after the same Melody who posts on several internet
              > groups dealing with consciousness. More of Bobby G's
              > great art can be found at his site
              > http://www.mentaltree.com/
            • texasbg2000
              ... Thank you Onniko. I will hold your warm words close on the cold nights to come. Love Bobby G. ... noticed;
              Message 6 of 21 , Oct 27, 2003
                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Onniko"
                <onniko@y...> wrote:
                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
                >
                > Thanks for the site address, Bob. Bobby G, I love your paintings. I
                > added the address to my favorites list. The one in the photo album
                > here caught my attention and I found myself kind of mesmerized by
                > it, not just the interesting kind of mysterious quality but also I
                > just really liked the way it was painted. It's a very sensuous
                > realism that a viewer can just wrap their tactile brain around and
                > step right into your beautiful world.

                Thank you Onniko. I will hold your warm words close on the cold
                nights to come.

                Love
                Bobby G.



                >
                >
                >
                >
                > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Onniko"
                > > <onniko@y...> wrote:
                > > > That is a cute baby. There's another picture in there I
                noticed;
                > an
                > > > interesting painting called Melody on the Mountain. Is there a
                > story
                > > > behind that?
                > >
                > > Dear Onniko,
                > > It's by Bobby G, and yes, I think is dedicated to and
                > > named after the same Melody who posts on several internet
                > > groups dealing with consciousness. More of Bobby G's
                > > great art can be found at his site
                > > http://www.mentaltree.com/
              • devianandi
                bobby: your so inspiring...a painter ... thanks bobby, thats good advice and i tell myself the same thing quite often...like i said i really need to take some
                Message 7 of 21 , Oct 28, 2003
                  bobby: your so inspiring...a painter
                  > > and a yogi.
                  >
                  > Thanks Devi. Here is the advice. Keep meditatiing and keep
                  > painting. If the universed wants you to get better you will.
                  >
                  > Love
                  > Bobby G.

                  thanks bobby, thats good advice and i tell myself the same thing
                  quite often...like i said i really need to take some lessons and i
                  have been feeling like that for a long time, and last month, the
                  universe provided me with jeanette la cru, she's becoming a popular
                  painter here in norther california, who gave a free demo at a gallery
                  around here,,i stood there for about two hours just watching her
                  paint..(i was the only one)..hey are you interested in putting some
                  of your work in a prestigous gallery in a resort and spa town here?
                  i'd love to represent you in california. how about it? smiles
                • devianandi
                  If God brings you to it, He will bring you through it. Happy moments, praise God. Difficult moments, seek God. Quiet moments, worship God. Painful moments,
                  Message 8 of 21 , Oct 28, 2003
                    If God brings you to it, He will bring you through it.


                    Happy moments, praise God.
                    Difficult moments, seek God.
                    Quiet moments, worship God.
                    Painful moments, trust God.
                    Every moment, thank God.

                    Pass this message to seven people except you and me.
                    You will receive a miracle tomorrow (just do it)
                  • texasbg2000
                    ... gallery ... Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years ago when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and then New
                    Message 9 of 21 , Oct 28, 2003
                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
                      <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                      > bobby: your so inspiring...a painter
                      > > > and a yogi.
                      > >
                      > > Thanks Devi. Here is the advice. Keep meditatiing and keep
                      > > painting. If the universed wants you to get better you will.
                      > >
                      > > Love
                      > > Bobby G.
                      >
                      > thanks bobby, thats good advice and i tell myself the same thing
                      > quite often...like i said i really need to take some lessons and i
                      > have been feeling like that for a long time, and last month, the
                      > universe provided me with jeanette la cru, she's becoming a popular
                      > painter here in norther california, who gave a free demo at a
                      gallery
                      > around here,,i stood there for about two hours just watching her
                      > paint..(i was the only one)..hey are you interested in putting some
                      > of your work in a prestigous gallery in a resort and spa town here?
                      > i'd love to represent you in california. how about it? smiles

                      Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years ago
                      when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
                      then New Mexico. so years later I still have that to do.

                      Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there where
                      you are? I still have them all, I never sell anything.
                      Bobby G.
                    • devianandi
                      ... ago ... devi: http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/ this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take a look and see if you compare..some
                      Message 10 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003
                        >
                        > Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years
                        ago
                        > when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
                        > then New Mexico. so years later I still have that to do.
                        >
                        > Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there where
                        > you are? I still have them all, I never sell anything.
                        > Bobby G.

                        devi:

                        http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/

                        this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take a
                        look and see if you compare..some of your landscapes seem *generic*,
                        in other words they look like they could be california
                        scenerey...thats a good thing...theres a lady named camille that
                        studied for five years with your teacher henshe...why haven't you
                        sold your paintings? when you paint, do you paint with the
                        thought ..what will the public buy?....i noticed that you have one
                        painiting, is it a mission,?,,it looked very good but i couldn't get
                        it enlarged,,theres a woman here gail salituri who makes a fortune
                        selling paintings of missions....are your paintings framed? do you
                        have any 9x12s?
                      • texasbg2000
                        ... where ... a ... *generic*, ... get ... Hi Devi: Thank you for looking into that and getting the link. It is not that I never sell but I seldom do. I do
                        Message 11 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003
                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
                          <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          > > Northern Cal sounds great. I was off to visit Oregon Four years
                          > ago
                          > > when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
                          > > then New Mexico. so years later I still have that to do.
                          > >
                          > > Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there
                          where
                          > > you are? I still have them all, I never sell anything.
                          > > Bobby G.
                          >
                          > devi:
                          >
                          > http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/
                          >
                          > this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take
                          a
                          > look and see if you compare..some of your landscapes seem
                          *generic*,
                          > in other words they look like they could be california
                          > scenerey...thats a good thing...theres a lady named camille that
                          > studied for five years with your teacher henshe...why haven't you
                          > sold your paintings? when you paint, do you paint with the
                          > thought ..what will the public buy?....i noticed that you have one
                          > painiting, is it a mission,?,,it looked very good but i couldn't
                          get
                          > it enlarged,,theres a woman here gail salituri who makes a fortune
                          > selling paintings of missions....are your paintings framed? do you
                          > have any 9x12s?

                          Hi Devi:

                          Thank you for looking into that and getting the link.

                          It is not that I never sell but I seldom do. I do mostly commissions
                          and the paintings that I post here are just for myself. I have
                          gravitated more towards the painting for myself so much now that a
                          gallery would be good. Things change you know and life is long. It
                          is good to take new directions sometimes. Perhaps that gallery will
                          want my work and I will move there for the rest of life. Who knows?

                          In fact my definition of enlightenment is knowing everything is new.

                          And yes I have lots of framed pieces. I made most of them. I like
                          frames but I am not good at making them.

                          And dozens of small pieces.

                          And large ones. I will past a large on in the photos section from
                          Arches.

                          Thanks again for your interest.

                          Love,
                          Bobby G.
                        • Jim Clark
                          Hello group, As your newest addition to this society, I don t know much about you, but just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall attempt
                          Message 12 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003

                            Hello group,

                             

                            As your newest addition to this society, I don't know much about you, but just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall attempt to do so.

                             

                            I was born in 1948, grew up in Oklahoma City, a fairly regular attendee of a Southern Baptist Church until I went away to college at the University of Texas at Austin as a Math Major. My attendance was made possible via an NROTC scholarship; thus, after graduating I served my obligatory sentence as a Naval Officer, including two tours in Viet Nam. During that period I became a fan of the writings of a various mystics, most especially Alan Watts. I spent my last tour in San Diego where I broadened my interests to other writers, including Lawrence LeShan, Jane Roberts, Edgar Cayce, Ouspenski, etc. I attended as many lectures and classes on psychic phenomenon and similar topics as I could; I also took up Yoga, studied as many religions, philosophies, and practiced as many exercises as my little mind could endure. I have had enough psychic experiences to know that they are genuine, and believe strongly in the value of meditation.

                             

                            I am currently a Senior Software Engineer living alone in Los Angeles, California.

                             

                            I have attempted through the years to be self-critical so as to assure steady, balanced, growth, yet have succeeded in experiencing my share of madness and “folly”. I continue to strive for enough stability to be meaningful, without losing the ability to explore interesting new ideas. Tolerance of everyone else’s point of view is the means by which I assure my continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.

                             

                            My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred North Whitehead:

                            “The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-satisfied dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history cherishes the delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics and believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are the leading dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is barred. This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure. The Universe is vast.”

                             

                            I look forward to hearing from those of you willing to share your ideas and experiences.
                             
                            Jim
                             -----Original Message-----
                            From: texasbg2000 [mailto:Bigbobgraham@...]
                            Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 5:58 PM
                            To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Picture

                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
                            <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > > Northern Cal sounds great.  I was off to visit Oregon Four years
                            > ago
                            > > when I was halted by the beauty of Moab Utah and then Wyoming and
                            > > then New Mexico.  so years later I still have that to do. 
                            > >
                            > > Do You think those paintings of the west would go over there
                            where
                            > > you are?  I still have them all, I never sell anything.
                            > > Bobby G.
                            >
                            > devi:
                            >
                            > http://www.leeyoungmangalleries.com/
                            >
                            > this is one of the more prestigous galleries around here.maybe take
                            a
                            > look and see if you compare..some of your landscapes seem
                            *generic*,
                            > in other words they look like they could be california
                            > scenerey...thats a good thing...theres a lady named camille that
                            > studied for five years with your teacher henshe...why haven't you
                            > sold your paintings? when you paint, do you paint with the
                            > thought ..what will the public buy?....i noticed that you have one
                            > painiting, is it a mission,?,,it looked very good but i couldn't
                            get
                            > it enlarged,,theres a woman here gail salituri who makes a fortune
                            > selling paintings of missions....are your paintings framed? do you
                            > have any 9x12s?

                            Hi Devi:

                            Thank you for looking into that and getting the link. 

                            It is not that I never sell but I seldom do.  I do mostly commissions
                            and the paintings that I post here are just for myself.  I have
                            gravitated more towards the painting for myself so much now that a
                            gallery would be good.  Things change you know and life is long.  It
                            is good to take new directions sometimes.  Perhaps that gallery will
                            want my work and I will move there for the rest of life.  Who knows?

                            In fact my definition of enlightenment is knowing everything is new.

                            And yes I have lots of framed pieces. I made most of them. I like
                            frames but I am not good at making them. 

                            And dozens of small pieces.

                            And large ones.  I will past a large on in the photos section from
                            Arches.

                            Thanks again for your interest.

                            Love,
                            Bobby G.










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                          • medit8ionsociety
                            Dear Jim, I really enjoyed your intro, and appreciate all you so eloquently shared. The quote by Whitehead is new to me, and it s A quality. Actually,
                            Message 13 of 21 , Oct 29, 2003
                              Dear Jim,
                              I really enjoyed your intro, and appreciate all you so eloquently
                              shared. The quote by Whitehead is new to me, and it's "A" quality.
                              Actually, although it's very "deep", it also made me smile as I
                              witnessed it bringing thoughts similar to "Tell it like it is
                              brother!" to mind. Anyway, I hope this is just the start of an ongoing
                              mutual exploration of consciousness evolution, or some similar
                              adjective. I'm glad you're here. Welcome.
                              Peace and blessings,
                              Bob

                              "Jim Clark" <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                              > Hello group,
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > As your newest addition to this society, I don't know much about
                              you, but
                              > just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall
                              attempt to do
                              > so.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I was born in 1948, grew up in Oklahoma City, a fairly regular
                              attendee of a
                              > Southern Baptist Church until I went away to college at the
                              University of
                              > Texas at Austin as a Math Major. My attendance was made possible via an
                              > NROTC scholarship; thus, after graduating I served my obligatory
                              sentence as
                              > a Naval Officer, including two tours in Viet Nam. During that period I
                              > became a fan of the writings of a various mystics, most especially Alan
                              > Watts. I spent my last tour in San Diego where I broadened my
                              interests to
                              > other writers, including Lawrence LeShan, Jane Roberts, Edgar Cayce,
                              > Ouspenski, etc. I attended as many lectures and classes on psychic
                              > phenomenon and similar topics as I could; I also took up Yoga,
                              studied as
                              > many religions, philosophies, and practiced as many exercises as my
                              little
                              > mind could endure. I have had enough psychic experiences to know
                              that they
                              > are genuine, and believe strongly in the value of meditation.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I am currently a Senior Software Engineer living alone in Los Angeles,
                              > California.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I have attempted through the years to be self-critical so as to assure
                              > steady, balanced, growth, yet have succeeded in experiencing my share of
                              > madness and "folly". I continue to strive for enough stability to be
                              > meaningful, without losing the ability to explore interesting new ideas.
                              > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by which I
                              assure my
                              > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred North
                              > Whitehead:
                              >
                              > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-satisfied
                              > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history cherishes the
                              > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics and
                              > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are the
                              leading
                              > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is
                              barred.
                              > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure. The
                              > Universe is vast."
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I look forward to hearing from those of you willing to share your
                              ideas and
                              > experiences.
                              >
                              > Jim
                              >
                            • carolina112900
                              ... Hello Jim, I enjoyed reading your introduction and glad you shared some of your story. ... you, but ... attempt to do ... attendee of a ... University of
                              Message 14 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
                                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark"
                                <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                                > Hello group,
                                >

                                Hello Jim,

                                I enjoyed reading your introduction
                                and glad you shared some of your
                                story.

                                >
                                >
                                > As your newest addition to this society, I don't know much about
                                you, but
                                > just in case it is appropriate that I introduce myself I shall
                                attempt to do
                                > so.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I was born in 1948, grew up in Oklahoma City, a fairly regular
                                attendee of a
                                > Southern Baptist Church until I went away to college at the
                                University of
                                > Texas at Austin as a Math Major. My attendance was made possible
                                via an
                                > NROTC scholarship; thus, after graduating I served my obligatory
                                sentence as
                                > a Naval Officer, including two tours in Viet Nam. During that
                                period I
                                > became a fan of the writings of a various mystics, most especially
                                Alan
                                > Watts. I spent my last tour in San Diego where I broadened my
                                interests to
                                > other writers, including Lawrence LeShan, Jane Roberts, Edgar Cayce,
                                > Ouspenski, etc. I attended as many lectures and classes on psychic
                                > phenomenon and similar topics as I could; I also took up Yoga,
                                studied as
                                > many religions, philosophies, and practiced as many exercises as my
                                little
                                > mind could endure. I have had enough psychic experiences to know
                                that they
                                > are genuine, and believe strongly in the value of meditation.
                                >


                                Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                                psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                                think that they mean anything other than
                                what the basic human senses provide?

                                What do you feel is the value of meditation?


                                >
                                >
                                > I am currently a Senior Software Engineer living alone in Los
                                Angeles,
                                > California.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I have attempted through the years to be self-critical so as to
                                assure
                                > steady, balanced, growth, yet have succeeded in experiencing my
                                share of
                                > madness and "folly". I continue to strive for enough stability to be
                                > meaningful, without losing the ability to explore interesting new
                                ideas.

                                > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by which I
                                assure my
                                > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                                >

                                That is interesting how you put that.
                                And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                                Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                                off as a result of your tolerance?
                                How do you know they are pissed off?
                                It is always interesting to me how we
                                interpret other's reactions.



                                >
                                >
                                > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred
                                North
                                > Whitehead:
                                >
                                > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                                satisfied
                                > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                                cherishes the
                                > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics
                                and
                                > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are the
                                leading
                                > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is
                                barred.
                                > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure.
                                The
                                > Universe is vast."
                                >

                                I would love to hear more about why this
                                is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                                to you?

                                Thank you and welcome, Jim

                                blessings,

                                Freyja


                                >
                                >
                                > I look forward to hearing from those of you willing to share your
                                ideas and
                                > experiences.
                                >
                                > Jim
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                Service.
                              • Swami-G
                                ... which I assure my continued ability to piss virtually everyone off. SG: why do you see this as an ability to piss everyone off ? this is an interesting
                                Message 15 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
                                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim
                                  Clark" <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                                  > Hello group,
                                  >

                                  > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                                  which I assure my continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.

                                  SG: why do you see this as an ability to piss everyone off ?

                                  this is an interesting statement .....

                                  Om in love
                                • jimedclark
                                  Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome. ... Can you talk more about your knowledge that ... Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
                                    Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.

                                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "carolina112900"
                                    <freyjartist@a...> wrote:

                                    > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark" >
                                    Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                                    > psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                                    > think that they mean anything other than
                                    > what the basic human senses provide?

                                    Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five senses. I
                                    assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be with
                                    regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my mind.

                                    Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to my
                                    readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of these
                                    events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a much
                                    bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and that
                                    our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence LeShann
                                    pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a New Theory
                                    of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly common
                                    among students who performed mental work under Zen Masters, for
                                    example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects" as means
                                    by which our lower selves distract us from the more important goal of
                                    the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:

                                    > What do you feel is the value of meditation?

                                    Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to bring
                                    us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person whose
                                    actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather than on
                                    mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the software
                                    engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                                    our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and low
                                    priority interrupts.


                                    > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by which
                                    I
                                    > assure my
                                    > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > That is interesting how you put that.
                                    > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                                    > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                                    > off as a result of your tolerance?
                                    > How do you know they are pissed off?
                                    > It is always interesting to me how we
                                    > interpret other's reactions.

                                    I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                                    many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep my ideas
                                    to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                                    scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too mystical
                                    for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with those
                                    who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of others,
                                    and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo said, "The
                                    more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its opposite
                                    screams for acknowledgement."

                                    What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on which
                                    group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me with
                                    those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in the Easter
                                    bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play head-games speaking
                                    loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."

                                    > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher Alfred
                                    > North
                                    > > Whitehead:
                                    > >
                                    > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                                    > satisfied
                                    > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                                    > cherishes the
                                    > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge. Skeptics
                                    > and
                                    > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are
                                    the
                                    > leading
                                    > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty is
                                    > barred.
                                    > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic adventure.
                                    > The
                                    > > Universe is vast."
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > I would love to hear more about why this
                                    > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                                    > to you?
                                    >
                                    For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                                    themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to the
                                    idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find new
                                    paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities; they
                                    may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                                    events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They then
                                    insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an extension
                                    of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no circumstances is
                                    it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                                    matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I hear
                                    the same old responses I used to use when I was a well-trained
                                    skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal somewhere,
                                    it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I have
                                    no doubt that this view is reciprocated.

                                    Best regards,

                                    Jim
                                  • Swami-G
                                    ... carolina112900 ... Clark ... senses. I ... with ... mind. ... my ... these ... much ... that ... LeShann ... New Theory ... common ... Masters, for
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
                                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                      "jimedclark" <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                                      > Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.
                                      >
                                      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                      "carolina112900"
                                      > <freyjartist@a...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim
                                      Clark" >
                                      > Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                                      > > psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                                      > > think that they mean anything other than
                                      > > what the basic human senses provide?
                                      >
                                      > Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five
                                      senses. I
                                      > assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be
                                      with
                                      > regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my
                                      mind.
                                      >
                                      > Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to
                                      my
                                      > readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of
                                      these
                                      > events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a
                                      much
                                      > bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and
                                      that
                                      > our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence
                                      LeShann
                                      > pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a
                                      New Theory
                                      > of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly
                                      common
                                      > among students who performed mental work under Zen
                                      Masters, for
                                      > example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects"
                                      as means
                                      > by which our lower selves distract us from the more important
                                      goal of
                                      > the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:
                                      >
                                      > > What do you feel is the value of meditation?
                                      >
                                      > Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to
                                      bring
                                      > us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person
                                      whose
                                      > actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather
                                      than on
                                      > mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the
                                      software
                                      > engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                                      > our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and
                                      low
                                      > priority interrupts.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                                      which
                                      > I
                                      > > assure my
                                      > > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > > That is interesting how you put that.
                                      > > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                                      > > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                                      > > off as a result of your tolerance?
                                      > > How do you know they are pissed off?
                                      > > It is always interesting to me how we
                                      > > interpret other's reactions.
                                      >
                                      > I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                                      > many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep
                                      my ideas
                                      > to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                                      > scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too mystical
                                      > for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with
                                      those
                                      > who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of
                                      others,
                                      > and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo
                                      said, "The
                                      > more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its
                                      opposite
                                      > screams for acknowledgement."
                                      >
                                      > What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on
                                      which
                                      > group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me
                                      with
                                      > those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in
                                      the Easter
                                      > bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play
                                      head-games speaking
                                      > loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."
                                      >
                                      > > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher
                                      Alfred
                                      > > North
                                      > > > Whitehead:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the
                                      self-
                                      > > satisfied
                                      > > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                                      > > cherishes the
                                      > > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge.
                                      Skeptics
                                      > > and
                                      > > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics
                                      are
                                      > the
                                      > > leading
                                      > > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental
                                      novelty is
                                      > > barred.
                                      > > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic
                                      adventure.
                                      > > The
                                      > > > Universe is vast."
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > > I would love to hear more about why this
                                      > > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                                      > > to you?
                                      > >
                                      > For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                                      > themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to
                                      the
                                      > idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find
                                      new
                                      > paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities;
                                      they
                                      > may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                                      > events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They
                                      then
                                      > insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an
                                      extension
                                      > of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no
                                      circumstances is
                                      > it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                                      > matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I
                                      hear
                                      > the same old responses I used to use when I was a
                                      well-trained
                                      > skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal
                                      somewhere,
                                      > it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I
                                      have
                                      > no doubt that this view is reciprocated.
                                      >
                                      > Best regards,
                                      >
                                      > Jim


                                      SG: wherever your attention is pointing that is the avenue
                                      open for exploration..... from that point of openness
                                      the creative mind expands.......

                                      or the avenue willing to be heard as it is the point of
                                      referance for that conditional self image ........ if it holds
                                      ones self image in place then it is the *right* one......

                                      sometimes one exchanges one set of conditioned
                                      response for another......

                                      eventually they begin to crumble in the light of day and
                                      a whole new paradigm emerges .......

                                      as long as revolving phenomena is the focal point
                                      then there is no stable point of referance other than the
                                      current set of belief's and one is apt
                                      to do this motion of standing on a roller board
                                      identity while juggling the latest mental conceptulization...

                                      meditation stops the frenetic action..... the juggling
                                      stops....... one steps off the board and begins to
                                      see what has always been right here ...... it comes into
                                      focus and clarity now that the attention isn't being
                                      diverted to image balance or mental jugglings......

                                      what is left ? just walking and enjoying the freedom
                                      of being unencumbered by the juggling act ......
                                    • carolina112900
                                      Jim, Thank you for taking the time to expand on these topics. We all have a story/stories :-) As Joan Tollifson wrote, Stories make apparent sense out of what
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Oct 31, 2003
                                        Jim,

                                        Thank you for taking the time
                                        to expand on these topics.

                                        We all have a story/stories :-)

                                        As Joan Tollifson wrote,

                                        "Stories make apparent sense out of
                                        what would otherwise be incomprehensible.
                                        They give meaning and importance to the
                                        fiction of myself and all that I identify
                                        with: my family, my civilization, my
                                        ethnic group, my political leanings, my
                                        sexual orientation, my subculture, my
                                        gender, my generation. Stories are entertaining.
                                        God apparently enjoys drama, play, hide and seek,
                                        lost and found.

                                        Sometimes a story helps to expose and dissolve
                                        limitations; sometimes it creates and reinforces
                                        them. Stories can lull us to sleep or wake us
                                        up, reveal truth or conceal it. The same story
                                        can serve different functions at different moments.
                                        It's a great art to discern when a story can serve
                                        different functions at different moments. It's
                                        a great art to discern when a story is breaking
                                        open the heart and waking us up, and when it is
                                        lulling us to sleep, perpetuating illusion and
                                        generating suffering. Likewise, it is a
                                        great art to discern the difference between
                                        actuality and concept. The conceptual filters
                                        through which we think about everything are so
                                        ubiquitous and so seemingly real that it's easy
                                        to mistake them for actuality. No separate,
                                        independent, solid thing really exists, except,
                                        apparently, in the story."


                                        Your presence is a nice addition here.

                                        cheers,
                                        Freyja


                                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jimedclark"
                                        <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                                        > Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.
                                        >
                                        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "carolina112900"
                                        > <freyjartist@a...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark" >
                                        > Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                                        > > psychic experiences are genuine. Do you
                                        > > think that they mean anything other than
                                        > > what the basic human senses provide?
                                        >
                                        > Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five senses. I
                                        > assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be with
                                        > regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my
                                        mind.
                                        >
                                        > Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to my
                                        > readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of
                                        these
                                        > events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a
                                        much
                                        > bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and that
                                        > our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence LeShann
                                        > pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a New
                                        Theory
                                        > of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly common
                                        > among students who performed mental work under Zen Masters, for
                                        > example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects" as
                                        means
                                        > by which our lower selves distract us from the more important goal
                                        of
                                        > the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:
                                        >
                                        > > What do you feel is the value of meditation?
                                        >
                                        > Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to bring
                                        > us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person whose
                                        > actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather than on
                                        > mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the software
                                        > engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                                        > our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and low
                                        > priority interrupts.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                                        which
                                        > I
                                        > > assure my
                                        > > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > > That is interesting how you put that.
                                        > > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                                        > > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                                        > > off as a result of your tolerance?
                                        > > How do you know they are pissed off?
                                        > > It is always interesting to me how we
                                        > > interpret other's reactions.
                                        >
                                        > I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                                        > many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep my
                                        ideas
                                        > to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                                        > scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too
                                        mystical
                                        > for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with those
                                        > who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of others,
                                        > and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo
                                        said, "The
                                        > more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its
                                        opposite
                                        > screams for acknowledgement."
                                        >
                                        > What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on which
                                        > group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me with
                                        > those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in the
                                        Easter
                                        > bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play head-games
                                        speaking
                                        > loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."
                                        >
                                        > > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher
                                        Alfred
                                        > > North
                                        > > > Whitehead:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                                        > > satisfied
                                        > > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                                        > > cherishes the
                                        > > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge.
                                        Skeptics
                                        > > and
                                        > > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are
                                        > the
                                        > > leading
                                        > > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty
                                        is
                                        > > barred.
                                        > > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic
                                        adventure.
                                        > > The
                                        > > > Universe is vast."
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > > I would love to hear more about why this
                                        > > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                                        > > to you?
                                        > >
                                        > For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                                        > themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to the
                                        > idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find
                                        new
                                        > paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities; they
                                        > may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                                        > events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They
                                        then
                                        > insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an
                                        extension
                                        > of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no circumstances is
                                        > it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                                        > matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I
                                        hear
                                        > the same old responses I used to use when I was a well-trained
                                        > skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal somewhere,
                                        > it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I
                                        have
                                        > no doubt that this view is reciprocated.
                                        >
                                        > Best regards,
                                        >
                                        > Jim
                                      • Jim Clark
                                        Freyja, Thanks. I am hoping to hear stories from others here. I ve heard many from others over the years and they never cease to fascinate me. Jim ... From:
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Oct 31, 2003
                                          Freyja,
                                           
                                          Thanks. I am hoping to hear stories from others here. I've heard many from others over the years and they never cease to fascinate me.
                                           
                                          Jim
                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: carolina112900 [mailto:freyjartist@...]
                                          Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 4:22 AM
                                          To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Picture

                                          Jim,

                                          Thank you for taking the time
                                          to expand on these topics.

                                          We all have a story/stories :-)

                                          As Joan Tollifson wrote,

                                          "Stories make apparent sense out of
                                          what would otherwise be incomprehensible.
                                          They give meaning and importance to the
                                          fiction of myself and all that I identify
                                          with: my family, my civilization, my
                                          ethnic group, my political leanings, my
                                          sexual orientation, my subculture, my
                                          gender, my generation.  Stories are entertaining.
                                          God apparently enjoys drama, play, hide and seek,
                                          lost and found.

                                          Sometimes a story helps to expose and dissolve
                                          limitations; sometimes it creates and reinforces
                                          them.  Stories can lull us to sleep or wake us
                                          up, reveal truth or conceal it.   The same story
                                          can serve different functions at different moments.
                                          It's a great art to discern when a story can serve
                                          different functions at different moments.  It's
                                          a great art to discern when a story is breaking
                                          open the heart and waking us up, and when it is
                                          lulling us to sleep, perpetuating illusion and
                                          generating suffering.  Likewise, it is a
                                          great art to discern the difference between
                                          actuality and concept.  The conceptual filters
                                          through which we think about everything are so
                                          ubiquitous and so seemingly real that it's easy
                                          to mistake them for actuality.  No separate,
                                          independent, solid thing really exists, except,
                                          apparently, in the story."


                                          Your presence is a nice addition here.

                                          cheers,
                                          Freyja 


                                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jimedclark"
                                          <jclark310@c...> wrote:
                                          > Bob, Freyja, and Om; thanks for the welcome.
                                          >
                                          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "carolina112900"
                                          > <freyjartist@a...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Clark" >
                                          > Can you talk more about your knowledge that
                                          > > psychic experiences are genuine.  Do you
                                          > > think that they mean anything other than
                                          > > what the basic human senses provide?
                                          >
                                          > Psychic experiences definitely provide more than the five senses. I
                                          > assure you that I was as skeptical as I could reasonably be with
                                          > regard to these events, but in time there was no question in my
                                          mind.
                                          >
                                          > Yet, I feel compelled to add, that in my view (in part thanks to my
                                          > readings), I have come to the conclusion that the importance of
                                          these
                                          > events is essentially to awaken us to the fact that we live in a
                                          much
                                          > bigger universe than we are inclined to realize otherwise, and that
                                          > our potential for growth is likewise grander. Lawrence LeShann
                                          > pointed out in "Mediums, Mystics, and Physicists: Toward a New
                                          Theory
                                          > of the Paranormal" that psychic manifestations were fairly common
                                          > among students who performed mental work under Zen Masters, for
                                          > example. The masters typically regarded these "side effects" as
                                          means
                                          > by which our lower selves distract us from the more important goal
                                          of
                                          > the meditation exercises. This brings me to the next question:
                                          >
                                          > > What do you feel is the value of meditation?
                                          >
                                          > Meditation serves many purposes, not the least of which is to bring
                                          > us into greater "being", that is, to become more a person whose
                                          > actions are based on our personal conscious choices rather than on
                                          > mechanical programming. Pardon me if I sound like the software
                                          > engineer I am, but I think of it as a means of strengthening
                                          > our "main routines" and minimizing negative imagination and low
                                          > priority interrupts.


                                          > > > Tolerance of everyone else's point of view is the means by
                                          which
                                          > I
                                          > > assure my
                                          > > > continued ability to piss virtually everyone off.
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > > That is interesting how you put that.
                                          > > And is a good discussion starter...tolerance.
                                          > > Can you say more about how you piss everyone
                                          > > off as a result of your tolerance?
                                          > > How do you know they are pissed off?
                                          > > It is always interesting to me how we
                                          > > interpret other's reactions.
                                          >
                                          > I was partly just trying to be funny. Hopefully, I don't make that
                                          > many people angry anymore, since I now generally try to keep my
                                          ideas
                                          > to myself. What I meant by that is basically I am usually too
                                          > scientific and analytical for the "true believers", and too
                                          mystical
                                          > for the scientists. My negative experiences were usually with those
                                          > who wanted me to be open to their ideas to the exclusion of others,
                                          > and I am cautious about buying into that. As Sri Aurubindo
                                          said, "The
                                          > more you insist on the truth of an assertion the louder its
                                          opposite
                                          > screams for acknowledgement."
                                          >
                                          > What signs do they give of negative feelings? It depends on which
                                          > group I piss off: skeptics and pseudo-scientists compare me with
                                          > those who would buy from snake-oil salesmen, or believe in the
                                          Easter
                                          > bunny, etc. while fundamentalists sometimes play head-games
                                          speaking
                                          > loudly against those who would dare question "God's Word."

                                          > > > My favorite quote is by the Mathematician and Philosopher
                                          Alfred
                                          > > North
                                          > > > Whitehead:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > "The Universe is vast. Nothing is more curious than the self-
                                          > > satisfied
                                          > > > dogmatism with which mankind at each period of its history
                                          > > cherishes the
                                          > > > delusion of the finality of existing modes of knowledge.
                                          Skeptics
                                          > > and
                                          > > > believers are alike. At this moment scientists and skeptics are
                                          > the
                                          > > leading
                                          > > > dogmatists. Advance in detail is admitted; fundamental novelty
                                          is
                                          > > barred.
                                          > > > This dogmatic common sense is the death of philosophic
                                          adventure.
                                          > > The
                                          > > > Universe is vast."
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > > I would love to hear more about why this
                                          > > is your favorite quote....what does it mean
                                          > > to you?
                                          > >
                                          > For example, I've spoken to many people lately who identify
                                          > themselves with "true scientific" thinking. They may be open to the
                                          > idea that science has a long way to go, that we will forever find
                                          new
                                          > paradigms and must always be willing to explore possibilities; they
                                          > may even accept the possibility that so-called the "paranormal"
                                          > events such as precognition or telepathy do in fact occur. They
                                          then
                                          > insist, however, that the paranormal can be explained as an
                                          extension
                                          > of the known senses and/or physical laws, under no circumstances is
                                          > it possible that spirits exist, or that the universe is "aware". No
                                          > matter how much evidence, personal testimony, etc. I present, I
                                          hear
                                          > the same old responses I used to use when I was a well-trained
                                          > skeptic. Unless it is written up in a scientific journal somewhere,
                                          > it didn't happen. In my view, these people live in caves, and I
                                          have
                                          > no doubt that this view is reciprocated.
                                          >
                                          > Best regards,
                                          >
                                          > Jim



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                                        • Sandy
                                          Welcome Jim, I am new to the list as well, and also live in So. CA. I think this is going to be a great list to be part of. Hugs, Sandy
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Nov 5, 2003
                                            Welcome Jim, I am new to the list as well, and also live in So. CA. I
                                            think this is going to be a great list to be part of.

                                            Hugs,

                                            Sandy
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