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Re: unnatural stillness

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  • Era
    ... dear SG I read it but, I unsubed from Sarlo the minute when Devi called you enlightened, just protecting my eyes from all the light you two were emanating
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Swami Ganga-Puri Kaliuttamananda-Giri" <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
      >
      > > Since imho you are one of the most
      > > enlightened and intelligent person on
      > > this forum, if you wish I can call
      > > you Swami, or Baba or somethin' like
      > > thats gonna change *Realty* lol
      >
      > (removed for space)
      >
      > I know, for someone as pure and
      > transparent as yourself without any
      > holy, guru, or any kind of ill ego
      > this fact never occurred, because you
      > can share your precious self without
      > an agenda, but with abundance and with
      >
      > > Infinite Love always
      > >
      > > you ARE THAT!
      > >
      > >
      > > love, Karta
      >
      >
      > Karta - Swami is not something that you simply decide to call
      > someone ...... it is a term for a consecrated hindu renunciate ....
      >
      > my question is WHY this sarcastic bent ?
      >
      > it is like making fun of a nun and putting her down because
      > others call her *sister* ----- it is simply a pointing that she is a
      > christian renunciate ....... would you deride that term and then
      > sling it as an epitaph and say like it would change *Reality* ?
      >
      >
      > Respect goes two ways ....... if you want it ---- you might want to
      > try giving a little without the continuous slights thrown in here and
      > there around the net .......
      >
      > by the way there is an open letter for you at Sarlos addressing
      > the uncalled for remarks and slanders you have made towards
      > me there


      dear SG

      I read it

      but, I unsubed from Sarlo the minute
      when Devi called you enlightened, just protecting my eyes from all the light
      you two were emanating there

      I had and have no quarrel with you,
      I like and respect the work you do.

      Devi irritates me with her
      *enlightenment* obsession and

      I do respond when they call me
      twofaced!!!!

      I did never endorsed your enlightenment
      higher than it is

      I am sure you know that there are
      various debts to that term

      SO REFRAIN YOURSELF TO CALL ME TWOFACED!

      you don't understand me and never did

      Karta


      ....... i have no ill will towards you as whatever pain
      > you are in is projecting itself in many directions....... i am not
      > your enemy and never have been........
      >
      >
      > Infinite Love bears all things ---- it continues to give ------
      > Infinite Love has no strings - it cares not to bind but only set
      > free that which is bound.........
    • Era
      I use and do respect the word and what it conotes: Enlightened only for the likes of saints like Ramana Maharshi, or my Master maybe this explaines me
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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        I use and do respect the word and what
        it conotes: "Enlightened" only for the
        likes of saints like Ramana Maharshi,
        or my Master

        maybe this explaines me


        > >
        > > > Since imho you are one of the most
        > > > enlightened and intelligent person on
        > > > this forum, if you wish I can call
        > > > you Swami, or Baba or somethin' like
        > > > thats gonna change *Realty* lol
        > >
        > > (removed for space)
        > >
        > > I know, for someone as pure and
        > > transparent as yourself without any
        > > holy, guru, or any kind of ill ego
        > > this fact never occurred, because you
        > > can share your precious self without
        > > an agenda, but with abundance and with
        > >
        > > > Infinite Love always
        > > >
        > > > you ARE THAT!
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > love, Karta
        > >
        > >
        > > Karta - Swami is not something that you simply decide to call
        > > someone ...... it is a term for a consecrated hindu renunciate ....
        > >
        > > my question is WHY this sarcastic bent ?
        > >
        > > it is like making fun of a nun and putting her down because
        > > others call her *sister* ----- it is simply a pointing that she is a
        > > christian renunciate ....... would you deride that term and then
        > > sling it as an epitaph and say like it would change *Reality* ?
        > >
        > >
        > > Respect goes two ways ....... if you want it ---- you might want to
        > > try giving a little without the continuous slights thrown in here and
        > > there around the net .......
        > >
        > > by the way there is an open letter for you at Sarlos addressing
        > > the uncalled for remarks and slanders you have made towards
        > > me there
        >
        >
        > dear SG
        >
        > I read it
        >
        > but, I unsubed from Sarlo the minute
        > when Devi called you enlightened, just protecting my eyes from all the light
        > you two were emanating there
        >
        > I had and have no quarrel with you,
        > I like and respect the work you do.
        >
        > Devi irritates me with her
        > *enlightenment* obsession and
        >
        > I do respond when they call me
        > twofaced!!!!
        >
        > I did never endorsed your enlightenment
        > higher than it is
        >
        > I am sure you know that there are
        > various debts to that term
        >
        > SO REFRAIN YOURSELF TO CALL ME TWOFACED!
        >
        > you don't understand me and never did
        >
        > Karta
        >
        >
        > ....... i have no ill will towards you as whatever pain
        > > you are in is projecting itself in many directions....... i am not
        > > your enemy and never have been........
        > >
        > >
        > > Infinite Love bears all things ---- it continues to give ------
        > > Infinite Love has no strings - it cares not to bind but only set
        > > free that which is bound.........
      • Nina
        ... Hello, Karta, Thank you for your concern. You seem to be speaking of empathy, the ability to share what another is experiencing, whatever that may be. It
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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          > dear Nina my angel,
          >
          > I was thinking on your post and than
          > I couldn't resist anymore to answer
          > with my 0.02$
          >
          > Since imho you are one of the most
          > enlightened and intelligent person on
          > this forum, if you wish I can call
          > you Swami, or Baba or somethin' like
          > thats gonna change *Realty* lol
          >
          > Truth can not be manipulated
          >
          > what is IS, Timothy Leary
          >
          > spirituality 101
          >
          > anyway, the shakti: one's sex drive,
          > ego, intentions, understanding,
          > ethical values, Consciousness, Awareness
          > soul are all in the eyes of everyone
          >
          > those for the holy tradition o
          > transference through Darshan
          >
          > if a violent, or a mentally disturbed
          > creature looks into an innocent child's
          > eye, the seed of its damage is planted,
          > a gaze does awoke something
          >
          > please take my word for this; entities
          > the essences of others are highly
          > contagious, so to speak
          >
          > even online, let alone with eye-contact!
          >
          > so is the circus created: the action
          > the *reality* by us humans
          >
          > so if you want to sit down in meditation
          > and ONLY!!! deal with your own 'shit'
          > and not add others to it: it is best
          > to stay away from all contacts before meditation
          >
          > I know, for someone as pure and
          > transparent as yourself without any
          > holy, guru, or any kind of ill ego
          > this fact never occurred, because you
          > can share your precious self without
          > an agenda, but with abundance and with
          >
          > Infinite Love always
          >
          > you ARE THAT!
          >
          >
          > love, Karta

          Hello, Karta,

          Thank you for your concern.

          You seem to be speaking of empathy, the
          ability to share what another is experiencing,
          whatever that may be.

          It seems, that empathic understanding can be
          filtered by perception.

          So, where one may see the innocent child
          seeded with violence and mental disturbance,
          another may see the violent and mentally
          disturbed one seeded with innocence.

          At any rate, we may struggle to put up
          barriers to empathy, by removing ourselves
          from the presence of disturbing people,
          but the range of the quantum mind is boundless
          and doesn't discriminate in the ways we might
          like.

          I can claim it all as mine: the innocence,
          violence and mental disturbance. I can also
          see through it.

          The story I wrote, on which you have commented,
          revealed only one aspect of that meditation class.
          It was the story of what was happening between
          quiet lengths of infinity, which I didn't mention.

          I'll leave you with a story I came across
          last night:

          (begin excerpt, p. 210, Brain States by Tom Kenyon, M.A.)

          Belief is a powerful filter of perception
          whether it be a perception of an individual
          or of a group. An incident tha occurred on
          one of Magellan's voyages demonstrates this
          point in a dramatic manner. As the explorer
          sailed around the tip of South America, he
          stopped at a place called Tierra del Fuego,
          the southernmost point in the Western Hemisphere.
          Coming ashore he met some local natives who had
          come out to see the strange visitors. What
          transpired is hard to imagine, but the ship's
          historian documented the event.

          As Magellan came ashore, the natives asked him
          how he got there. He pointed out the the full-masted
          sailing ships at anchor off the coast. Incredible
          as it seems, none of the natives could see the
          ships that were clearly visible to Magellan and
          his crew. The natives had never seen anything
          like sailing ships. They did not expect to see
          them, and so they did not see them.

          According to the historian's records, the first
          person to see the ships was the village shaman
          or witch doctor. He said that if they looked out
          to the sea from the corner of their eyes they
          could see something. Finally, everyone in the
          tribe could see the ships.

          Shamans are trained to "see" and work in the
          inner world of reality. My hunch is that through
          years of entering trance states and working in
          his own "inner reality," the shaman's perception
          was more flexible than the other members of his
          tribe. Thus, he was able to see Magellan's ships
          even though they violated the consensus reality
          of his kinsmen.

          (end excerpt)

          Nina
        • Onniko
          ... That would do it. I call all people enlightened because of something I see, but I agree with you that it s either all or something like a couple of people
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Era"
            <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
            > I use and do respect the word and what
            > it conotes: "Enlightened" only for the
            > likes of saints like Ramana Maharshi,
            > or my Master
            >
            > maybe this explaines me

            That would do it. I call all people enlightened because of
            something I see, but I agree with you that it's either all or
            something like a couple of people on earth. There is no special
            category for the inbetween. They are just like everyone else.



            > > > > Since imho you are one of the most
            > > > > enlightened and intelligent person on
            > > > > this forum, if you wish I can call
            > > > > you Swami, or Baba or somethin' like
            > > > > thats gonna change *Realty* lol
            > > >
            > > > (removed for space)
            > > >
            > > > I know, for someone as pure and
            > > > transparent as yourself without any
            > > > holy, guru, or any kind of ill ego
            > > > this fact never occurred, because you
            > > > can share your precious self without
            > > > an agenda, but with abundance and with
            > > >
            > > > > Infinite Love always
            > > > >
            > > > > you ARE THAT!
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > love, Karta
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Karta - Swami is not something that you simply decide to
            call
            > > > someone ...... it is a term for a consecrated hindu
            renunciate ....
            > > >
            > > > my question is WHY this sarcastic bent ?
            > > >
            > > > it is like making fun of a nun and putting her down because
            > > > others call her *sister* ----- it is simply a pointing that
            she is a
            > > > christian renunciate ....... would you deride that term and
            then
            > > > sling it as an epitaph and say like it would change
            *Reality* ?
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Respect goes two ways ....... if you want it ---- you
            might want to
            > > > try giving a little without the continuous slights thrown in
            here and
            > > > there around the net .......
            > > >
            > > > by the way there is an open letter for you at Sarlos
            addressing
            > > > the uncalled for remarks and slanders you have made towards
            > > > me there
            > >
            > >
            > > dear SG
            > >
            > > I read it
            > >
            > > but, I unsubed from Sarlo the minute
            > > when Devi called you enlightened, just protecting my eyes from
            all the light
            > > you two were emanating there
            > >
            > > I had and have no quarrel with you,
            > > I like and respect the work you do.
            > >
            > > Devi irritates me with her
            > > *enlightenment* obsession and
            > >
            > > I do respond when they call me
            > > twofaced!!!!
            > >
            > > I did never endorsed your enlightenment
            > > higher than it is
            > >
            > > I am sure you know that there are
            > > various debts to that term
            > >
            > > SO REFRAIN YOURSELF TO CALL ME TWOFACED!
            > >
            > > you don't understand me and never did
            > >
            > > Karta
            > >
            > >
            > > ....... i have no ill will towards you as whatever pain
            > > > you are in is projecting itself in many directions....... i
            am not
            > > > your enemy and never have been........
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Infinite Love bears all things ---- it continues to give ---
            ---
            > > > Infinite Love has no strings - it cares not to bind but
            only set
            > > > free that which is bound.........
          • Onniko
            ... That is a great story, Nina. Thanks. Anyone who hasn t done it in awhile might walk out in the world, today, and include their corner of the eye vision
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Nina"
              <murrkis@y...> wrote:
              > > dear Nina my angel,
              > >
              > > I was thinking on your post and than
              > > I couldn't resist anymore to answer
              > > with my 0.02$
              > >
              > > Since imho you are one of the most
              > > enlightened and intelligent person on
              > > this forum, if you wish I can call
              > > you Swami, or Baba or somethin' like
              > > thats gonna change *Realty* lol
              > >
              > > Truth can not be manipulated
              > >
              > > what is IS, Timothy Leary
              > >
              > > spirituality 101
              > >
              > > anyway, the shakti: one's sex drive,
              > > ego, intentions, understanding,
              > > ethical values, Consciousness, Awareness
              > > soul are all in the eyes of everyone
              > >
              > > those for the holy tradition o
              > > transference through Darshan
              > >
              > > if a violent, or a mentally disturbed
              > > creature looks into an innocent child's
              > > eye, the seed of its damage is planted,
              > > a gaze does awoke something
              > >
              > > please take my word for this; entities
              > > the essences of others are highly
              > > contagious, so to speak
              > >
              > > even online, let alone with eye-contact!
              > >
              > > so is the circus created: the action
              > > the *reality* by us humans
              > >
              > > so if you want to sit down in meditation
              > > and ONLY!!! deal with your own 'shit'
              > > and not add others to it: it is best
              > > to stay away from all contacts before meditation
              > >
              > > I know, for someone as pure and
              > > transparent as yourself without any
              > > holy, guru, or any kind of ill ego
              > > this fact never occurred, because you
              > > can share your precious self without
              > > an agenda, but with abundance and with
              > >
              > > Infinite Love always
              > >
              > > you ARE THAT!
              > >
              > >
              > > love, Karta
              >
              > Hello, Karta,
              >
              > Thank you for your concern.
              >
              > You seem to be speaking of empathy, the
              > ability to share what another is experiencing,
              > whatever that may be.
              >
              > It seems, that empathic understanding can be
              > filtered by perception.
              >
              > So, where one may see the innocent child
              > seeded with violence and mental disturbance,
              > another may see the violent and mentally
              > disturbed one seeded with innocence.
              >
              > At any rate, we may struggle to put up
              > barriers to empathy, by removing ourselves
              > from the presence of disturbing people,
              > but the range of the quantum mind is boundless
              > and doesn't discriminate in the ways we might
              > like.
              >
              > I can claim it all as mine: the innocence,
              > violence and mental disturbance. I can also
              > see through it.
              >
              > The story I wrote, on which you have commented,
              > revealed only one aspect of that meditation class.
              > It was the story of what was happening between
              > quiet lengths of infinity, which I didn't mention.
              >
              > I'll leave you with a story I came across
              > last night:
              >
              > (begin excerpt, p. 210, Brain States by Tom Kenyon, M.A.)
              >
              > Belief is a powerful filter of perception
              > whether it be a perception of an individual
              > or of a group. An incident tha occurred on
              > one of Magellan's voyages demonstrates this
              > point in a dramatic manner. As the explorer
              > sailed around the tip of South America, he
              > stopped at a place called Tierra del Fuego,
              > the southernmost point in the Western Hemisphere.
              > Coming ashore he met some local natives who had
              > come out to see the strange visitors. What
              > transpired is hard to imagine, but the ship's
              > historian documented the event.
              >
              > As Magellan came ashore, the natives asked him
              > how he got there. He pointed out the the full-masted
              > sailing ships at anchor off the coast. Incredible
              > as it seems, none of the natives could see the
              > ships that were clearly visible to Magellan and
              > his crew. The natives had never seen anything
              > like sailing ships. They did not expect to see
              > them, and so they did not see them.
              >
              > According to the historian's records, the first
              > person to see the ships was the village shaman
              > or witch doctor. He said that if they looked out
              > to the sea from the corner of their eyes they
              > could see something. Finally, everyone in the
              > tribe could see the ships.
              >
              > Shamans are trained to "see" and work in the
              > inner world of reality. My hunch is that through
              > years of entering trance states and working in
              > his own "inner reality," the shaman's perception
              > was more flexible than the other members of his
              > tribe. Thus, he was able to see Magellan's ships
              > even though they violated the consensus reality
              > of his kinsmen.
              >
              > (end excerpt)
              >
              > Nina

              That is a great story, Nina. Thanks. Anyone who hasn't done it in
              awhile might walk out in the world, today, and include their corner
              of the eye vision just to see how remarkable the ordinary world is
              before it gets edited by the guy in front.
            • Era
              I thought that members online knew who do I call enlightened, since I made it clear several times, last time when PapaJeff popped up as god in human form this
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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                I thought that members online knew who
                do I call enlightened, since I made it
                clear several times, last time when
                PapaJeff popped up as god in human form

                this thingy crashed on me more times
                than homeless people

                its is also hard to come of opiates
                painkillers

                sorry for being short fused

                Oniko, to hold a view, that everyone is
                enlightened is beautiful, but I was
                trained in dialectical thought, and I can't change that


                > > I use and do respect the word and what
                > > it connotes: "Enlightened" only for the
                > > likes of saints like Ramana Maharshi,
                > > or my Master
                > >
                > > maybe this explains me
                >
                > That would do it. I call all people enlightened because of
                > something I see, but I agree with you that it's either all or
                > something like a couple of people on earth. There is no special
                > category for the inbetween. They are just like everyone else.
                >
                >
                >
                > > > > > Since imho you are one of the most
                > > > > > enlightened and intelligent person on
                > > > > > this forum, if you wish I can call
                > > > > > you Swami, or Baba or somethin' like
                > > > > > thats gonna change *Realty* lol
                > > > >
                > > > > (removed for space)
                > > > >
                > > > > I know, for someone as pure and
                > > > > transparent as yourself without any
                > > > > holy, guru, or any kind of ill ego
                > > > > this fact never occurred, because you
                > > > > can share your precious self without
                > > > > an agenda, but with abundance and with
                > > > >
                > > > > > Infinite Love always
                > > > > >
                > > > > > you ARE THAT!
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > love, Karta
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Karta - Swami is not something that you simply decide to
                > call
                > > > > someone ...... it is a term for a consecrated hindu
                > renunciate ....
                > > > >
                > > > > my question is WHY this sarcastic bent ?
                > > > >
                > > > > it is like making fun of a nun and putting her down because
                > > > > others call her *sister* ----- it is simply a pointing that
                > she is a
                > > > > christian renunciate ....... would you deride that term and
                > then
                > > > > sling it as an epitaph and say like it would change
                > *Reality* ?
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Respect goes two ways ....... if you want it ---- you
                > might want to
                > > > > try giving a little without the continuous slights thrown in
                > here and
                > > > > there around the net .......
                > > > >
                > > > > by the way there is an open letter for you at Sarlos
                > addressing
                > > > > the uncalled for remarks and slanders you have made towards
                > > > > me there
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > dear SG
                > > >
                > > > I read it
                > > >
                > > > but, I unsubed from Sarlo the minute
                > > > when Devi called you enlightened, just protecting my eyes from
                > all the light
                > > > you two were emanating there
                > > >
                > > > I had and have no quarrel with you,
                > > > I like and respect the work you do.
                > > >
                > > > Devi irritates me with her
                > > > *enlightenment* obsession and
                > > >
                > > > I do respond when they call me
                > > > twofaced!!!!
                > > >
                > > > I did never endorsed your enlightenment
                > > > higher than it is
                > > >
                > > > I am sure you know that there are
                > > > various debts to that term
                > > >
                > > > SO REFRAIN YOURSELF TO CALL ME TWOFACED!
                > > >
                > > > you don't understand me and never did
                > > >
                > > > Karta
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ....... i have no ill will towards you as whatever pain
                > > > > you are in is projecting itself in many directions....... i
                > am not
                > > > > your enemy and never have been........
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Infinite Love bears all things ---- it continues to give ---
                > ---
                > > > > Infinite Love has no strings - it cares not to bind but
                > only set
                > > > > free that which is bound.........
              • Era
                ... thank you Nina for being here and being yourself, and for your patience with me I had to cut out the espressos too, what I was gulping down all day, and I
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Nina" <murrkis@y...> wrote:
                  > > dear Nina my angel,
                  > >
                  > > I was thinking on your post and than
                  > > I couldn't resist anymore to answer
                  > > with my 0.02$
                  > >
                  > > Since imho you are one of the most
                  > > enlightened and intelligent person on
                  > > this forum, if you wish I can call
                  > > you Swami, or Baba or somethin' like
                  > > thats gonna change *Realty* lol
                  > >
                  > > Truth can not be manipulated
                  > >
                  > > what is IS, Timothy Leary
                  > >
                  > > spirituality 101
                  > >
                  > > anyway, the shakti: one's sex drive,
                  > > ego, intentions, understanding,
                  > > ethical values, Consciousness, Awareness
                  > > soul are all in the eyes of everyone
                  > >
                  > > those for the holy tradition o
                  > > transference through Darshan
                  > >
                  > > if a violent, or a mentally disturbed
                  > > creature looks into an innocent child's
                  > > eye, the seed of its damage is planted,
                  > > a gaze does awoke something
                  > >
                  > > please take my word for this; entities
                  > > the essences of others are highly
                  > > contagious, so to speak
                  > >
                  > > even online, let alone with eye-contact!
                  > >
                  > > so is the circus created: the action
                  > > the *reality* by us humans
                  > >
                  > > so if you want to sit down in meditation
                  > > and ONLY!!! deal with your own 'shit'
                  > > and not add others to it: it is best
                  > > to stay away from all contacts before meditation
                  > >
                  > > I know, for someone as pure and
                  > > transparent as yourself without any
                  > > holy, guru, or any kind of ill ego
                  > > this fact never occurred, because you
                  > > can share your precious self without
                  > > an agenda, but with abundance and with
                  > >
                  > > Infinite Love always
                  > >
                  > > you ARE THAT!
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > love, Karta
                  >
                  > Hello, Karta,
                  >
                  > Thank you for your concern.
                  >
                  > You seem to be speaking of empathy, the
                  > ability to share what another is experiencing,
                  > whatever that may be.
                  >
                  > It seems, that empathic understanding can be
                  > filtered by perception.
                  >
                  > So, where one may see the innocent child
                  > seeded with violence and mental disturbance,
                  > another may see the violent and mentally
                  > disturbed one seeded with innocence.
                  >
                  > At any rate, we may struggle to put up
                  > barriers to empathy, by removing ourselves
                  > from the presence of disturbing people,
                  > but the range of the quantum mind is boundless
                  > and doesn't discriminate in the ways we might
                  > like.
                  >
                  > I can claim it all as mine: the innocence,
                  > violence and mental disturbance. I can also
                  > see through it.
                  >
                  > The story I wrote, on which you have commented,
                  > revealed only one aspect of that meditation class.
                  > It was the story of what was happening between
                  > quiet lengths of infinity, which I didn't mention.
                  >
                  > I'll leave you with a story I came across
                  > last night:
                  >
                  > (begin excerpt, p. 210, Brain States by Tom Kenyon, M.A.)
                  >
                  > Belief is a powerful filter of perception
                  > whether it be a perception of an individual
                  > or of a group. An incident tha occurred on
                  > one of Magellan's voyages demonstrates this
                  > point in a dramatic manner. As the explorer
                  > sailed around the tip of South America, he
                  > stopped at a place called Tierra del Fuego,
                  > the southernmost point in the Western Hemisphere.
                  > Coming ashore he met some local natives who had
                  > come out to see the strange visitors. What
                  > transpired is hard to imagine, but the ship's
                  > historian documented the event.
                  >
                  > As Magellan came ashore, the natives asked him
                  > how he got there. He pointed out the the full-masted
                  > sailing ships at anchor off the coast. Incredible
                  > as it seems, none of the natives could see the
                  > ships that were clearly visible to Magellan and
                  > his crew. The natives had never seen anything
                  > like sailing ships. They did not expect to see
                  > them, and so they did not see them.
                  >
                  > According to the historian's records, the first
                  > person to see the ships was the village shaman
                  > or witch doctor. He said that if they looked out
                  > to the sea from the corner of their eyes they
                  > could see something. Finally, everyone in the
                  > tribe could see the ships.
                  >
                  > Shamans are trained to "see" and work in the
                  > inner world of reality. My hunch is that through
                  > years of entering trance states and working in
                  > his own "inner reality," the shaman's perception
                  > was more flexible than the other members of his
                  > tribe. Thus, he was able to see Magellan's ships
                  > even though they violated the consensus reality
                  > of his kinsmen.
                  >
                  > (end excerpt)
                  >
                  > Nina




                  thank you Nina for being here and being yourself,

                  and for your patience with me

                  I had to cut out the espressos too,
                  what I was gulping down all day, and
                  I will be more civil from now on

                  I LOVE YOUR STORIES!

                  love, Karta
                • Swami Ganga-Puri Kaliuttamananda-Giri
                  ... enlightened, just protecting my eyes from all the light you two were emanating there SG: why do you link me with Devi ? i have no strings with
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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                    > dear SG
                    >
                    > I read it

                    > but, I unsubed from Sarlo the minute when Devi called you
                    enlightened, just protecting my eyes from all the light you two
                    were emanating there

                    SG: why do you link me with Devi ? i have no strings with
                    either of you .........


                    > I had and have no quarrel with you,
                    > I like and respect the work you do.

                    SG: really ? then what is this as written :


                    K: > she belongs to the circus of self- proclaimed deluded ones
                    together with Judi and you

                    > and the gap between the *understanding" held by Don and
                    Ganga is as big as between you and me

                    SG: that statement is not showing one ounce of
                    respect .......

                    if you are going to be Transparent it
                    means being honest and Ethical in all respects.......

                    if you say you respect me here and then go to Sarlos
                    and post this type of inflamitory statement that is called
                    being double minded or two faced .......

                    Bible Quote : a Double minded man is unstable in all his
                    ways.......... if you want to get a firm foundation that is
                    unshakable one must use the single eye to see ........


                    K> Devi irritates me with her
                    > *enlightenment* obsession and
                    >
                    > I do respond when they call me
                    > twofaced!!!!

                    SG: so once again WHY are you linking me up with Devi ?
                    Why are you projecting what she says onto me and
                    suddenly then taking up this banner that if she sees
                    value and considers me enlightened then of course
                    that proves i am a fraud ?


                    K: > I did never endorsed your enlightenment
                    > higher than it is

                    SG: there is either Enlightenment in which the conditionings
                    are blown out and Liberation IS ....... or it isn't ...... there aren't
                    degrees of enlightenment ......
                    Like pregnancy it either is or is not ...... you can have degrees of
                    relative knowledge but not Self Realization........


                    K; > I am sure you know that there are various debts to that term
                    > SO REFRAIN YOURSELF TO CALL ME TWOFACED!

                    SG: there are debts when you slander a swami ( a renunciate
                    dedicated to God ) ...... but we won't get into that here ...... if you
                    are acting in a double minded way ..... if you are doing two
                    separate actions between here and and somewhere else then
                    that is termed twofaced......... it does not mean necessarily as
                    you might be taking it as a treacherous person not to be trusted
                    but simply that you are acting in two separate manners here and
                    there .........


                    > you don't understand me and never did

                    > Karta

                    SG: what is to understand ? let's try this on for size......


                    you are still searching and at present in a very reactive mode
                    ........
                    you want to trust but are afraid to open yourself to it .........

                    you think that being strong is in building up an ego identity
                    (positive affirmation) rather than letting it go and not needing to
                    control anything..........

                    there is a mistrust of anyone with a label such as guru and it is
                    construed as some projection of being better than others ( while
                    that is not the case at all) ........

                    there is a need to keep secure boundaries in place and seeing
                    things in terms of black and white ......

                    while Sant Thakar Singh wears white and has a title that
                    is well and good...... if anyone else does then they are a
                    sham...
                    My question is what makes it pure for him and you see
                    religious clothes or titles as a sham for others ? is it becuase
                    he is indian ?
                    if you think that he would come as sit down with you and
                    have a one to one conversation, think again ....... and yet you do
                    not see him as being ego centric and caught in a Guru image
                    ......... while there is this very projection on others.........


                    SG: the following words still stand :

                    ....... i have no ill will towards you as whatever pain you are in
                    is projecting itself in many directions....... i am not your enemy
                    and never have been........


                    Infinite Love bears all things ---- it continues to give ------
                    Infinite Love has no strings - it cares not to bind but only set
                    free that which is bound.........

                    i would celebrate your freedom and liberation ......
                  • Era
                    ... she really ticks me off with .. i have no strings with ... I am glad, it puzzles me how I am forced to speak about things I would rather keep to myself ...
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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                      "Swami Ganga-Puri Kaliuttamananda-Giri" <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > dear SG
                      > >
                      > > I read it
                      >
                      > > but, I unsubed from Sarlo the minute when Devi called you
                      > enlightened, just protecting my eyes from all the light you two
                      > were emanating there
                      >
                      > SG: why do you link me with Devi ?
                      she really ticks me off with ..
                      i have no strings with
                      > either of you .........
                      >
                      I am glad, it puzzles me how I am
                      forced to speak about things I would
                      rather keep to myself
                      >
                      > > I had and have no quarrel with you,
                      > > I like and respect the work you do.
                      >
                      > SG: really ? then what is this as written :
                      >
                      >
                      > K: > she belongs to the circus of self- proclaimed deluded ones
                      > together with Judi and you
                      >



                      dear SG, that is exactly the reason
                      I unsubed from Sarlo because Devi
                      irritates me beyond my endurance,

                      please believe me I would never post
                      such things, only when I am pushed over
                      the top, what the deva succeeds to do
                      on a regular bases; now posting from
                      her Thuraya samadhi

                      and Sarlo thinks, that she is charming

                      oh!!!! somebody help!!!!!

                      I live in my world, with my value
                      system, with my understanding of what
                      enlightenment is and wo is and who is
                      not, and will not lye about it


                      > > and the gap between the *understanding" held by Don and
                      > Ganga is as big as between you and me
                      >
                      > SG: that statement is not showing one ounce of
                      > respect .......
                      >
                      > if you are going to be Transparent it
                      > means being honest and Ethical in all respects.......
                      >
                      > if you say you respect me here and then go to Sarlos
                      > and post this type of inflamitory statement that is called
                      > being double minded or two faced .......
                      >
                      > Bible Quote : a Double minded man is unstable in all his
                      > ways.......... if you want to get a firm foundation that is
                      > unshakable one must use the single eye to see ........
                      >
                      >
                      > K> Devi irritates me with her
                      > > *enlightenment* obsession and
                      > >
                      > > I do respond when they call me
                      > > twofaced!!!!
                      >
                      > SG: so once again WHY are you linking me up with Devi ?
                      > Why are you projecting what she says onto me and
                      > suddenly then taking up this banner that if she sees
                      > value and considers me enlightened then of course
                      > that proves i am a fraud ?
                      >
                      >
                      > K: > I did never endorsed your enlightenment
                      > > higher than it is
                      >
                      > SG: there is either Enlightenment in which the conditionings
                      > are blown out and Liberation IS ....... or it isn't ...... there aren't
                      > degrees of enlightenment ......
                      > Like pregnancy it either is or is not



                      you said it than, not me <grin>



                      ...... you can have degrees of
                      > relative knowledge but not Self Realization........
                      >
                      >
                      > K; > I am sure you know that there are various debts to that term
                      > > SO REFRAIN YOURSELF TO CALL ME TWOFACED!
                      >
                      > SG: there are debts when you slander a swami ( a renunciate
                      > dedicated to God ) ...... but we won't get into that here ...... if you
                      > are acting in a double minded way ..... if you are doing two
                      > separate actions between here and and somewhere else then
                      > that is termed twofaced......... it does not mean necessarily as
                      > you might be taking it as a treacherous person not to be trusted
                      > but simply that you are acting in two separate manners here and
                      > there .........
                      >
                      >
                      > > you don't understand me and never did
                      >
                      > > Karta
                      >
                      > SG: what is to understand ? let's try this on for size......
                      >



                      Oh! SG don't ware me down please!
                      you always did misinterpreted me

                      ALWAYS! lookig through your heavily
                      colored glasses which I have nohing
                      to do with




                      >
                      > you are still searching and at present in a very reactive mode



                      keep your pseudo analysis to your self
                      please, you don't know me what was
                      proved over and over how you mis
                      understood me in the past also

                      and imo your divisions and fixation with
                      seekers and searchers and masters and
                      gurus is childish




                      > ........
                      > you want to trust but are afraid to open yourself to it .........
                      >
                      > you think that being strong is in building up an ego identity
                      > (positive affirmation) rather than letting it go and not needing to
                      > control anything..........
                      >
                      > there is a mistrust of anyone with a label such as guru and it is
                      > construed as some projection of being better than others ( while
                      > that is not the case at all) ........
                      >
                      > there is a need to keep secure boundaries in place and seeing
                      > things in terms of black and white ......
                      >
                      > while Sant Thakar Singh wears white



                      He is a sikh, that is their attire
                      accept the radical ones; who have
                      hotpink turbans


                      > and has a title that
                      > is well and good...... if anyone else does then they are a
                      > sham...



                      no, I never said that your title is
                      a sham, never and I adore your initiation
                      mystic flame dancing Siva photos

                      and wish you the best with your journey


                      > My question is what makes it pure for him and you see
                      > religious clothes or titles as a sham for others ? is it because
                      > he is indian ?
                      > if you think that he would come as sit down with you and
                      > have a one to one conversation, think again ....... and yet you do
                      > not see him as being ego centric and caught in a Guru image
                      > ......... while there is this very projection on others.........
                      >
                      >
                      > SG: the following words still stand :
                      >
                      > ....... i have no ill will towards you
                      yes, I always knew, that dear SG
                      > as whatever pain you are in
                      > is projecting itself in many directions....... i am not your enemy
                      > and never have been........
                      >
                      >
                      > Infinite Love bears all things ---- it continues to give ------
                      > Infinite Love has no strings - it cares not to bind but only set
                      > free that which is bound.........
                      >
                      > i would celebrate your freedom and
                      liberation ......



                      peace peace, and please forgive me
                      for being alive and being myself


                      Karta
                    • Swami Ganga-Puri Kaliuttamananda-Giri
                      ... i celebrate your being alive ...... i celebrate your being your Self....... but cringe when that spills over into tearing apart another in order to think
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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                        >
                        > peace peace, and please forgive me
                        > for being alive and being myself
                        >
                        >
                        > Karta

                        i celebrate your being alive ......
                        i celebrate your being your Self.......
                        but cringe when that spills over into tearing apart another in
                        order to think you can keep your center, that way .......

                        Peace is a center ...... Infinite Love needs hold no center
                        it's transparent nature gives simply due to its very nature of
                        presenting freedom rather than bondage.........

                        Blessings and Infinite Love
                      • Era
                        ... thanks SG this makes me very happy love, Karta
                        Message 11 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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                          <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          > > peace peace, and please forgive me
                          > > for being alive and being myself
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Karta
                          >
                          > i celebrate your being alive ......
                          > i celebrate your being your Self.......
                          > Blessings and Infinite Love


                          thanks SG

                          this makes me very happy

                          love, Karta
                        • Swami Ganga-Puri Kaliuttamananda-Giri
                          ... SG: you have edited it ........ what you have taken out is just as important as what is left ........... but cringe when that spills over into
                          Message 12 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Era"
                            <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                            > <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > > > peace peace, and please forgive me
                            > > > for being alive and being myself
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Karta
                            > >
                            > > i celebrate your being alive ......
                            > > i celebrate your being your Self.......
                            > > Blessings and Infinite Love
                            >
                            >
                            > thanks SG
                            >
                            > this makes me very happy
                            >
                            > love, Karta



                            SG: you have edited it ........ what you have taken out is just
                            as important as what is left ...........

                            but cringe when that spills over into tearing apart another in
                            order to think you can keep your center, that way .......

                            Peace is a center ...... Infinite Love needs hold no center
                            it's transparent nature gives simply due to its very nature of
                            presenting freedom rather than bondage.........


                            Blessings and Infinite Love
                          • Era
                            Message 13 of 18 , Oct 7, 2003
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                              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Swami Ganga-Puri Kaliuttamananda-Giri" <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
                              > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Era"
                              > <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                              > > <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > peace peace, and please forgive me
                              > > > > for being alive and being myself
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Karta
                              > > >
                              > > > i celebrate your being alive ......
                              > > > i celebrate your being your Self.......
                              > > > Blessings and Infinite Love
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > thanks SG
                              > >
                              > > this makes me very happy
                              > >
                              > > love, Karta
                            • Onniko
                              ... Un nAtURaL sTiLL NesS I aM tHe oNe i sTaND aT tHe cEN tEr oF lOVe AlL mEn pLaY aT tHe eDGeS oF mY SKiRT AS iT sWWiSHHes tHe EArthS gRounD iN My SiL EnCE i
                              Message 14 of 18 , Oct 7, 2003
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                                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Era"

                                Un nAtURaL sTiLL NesS

                                I aM tHe oNe

                                i sTaND aT tHe cEN tEr oF lOVe

                                AlL mEn pLaY aT tHe eDGeS oF mY SKiRT

                                AS iT sWWiSHHes tHe EArthS gRounD

                                iN My SiL EnCE i tRy tO SmooTh tHe wRin Kles mEn mAKe tHEre

                                AnD I trY tO sTop tHe IDlE pLaY tHat rUF Fles mY hOLy sKiRt

                                i BrUsH aNd I BruSH aT tHeSe fOOl iSh mEn

                                aNd Rea RaNge mY dIVine gArMenT

                                bUt tHey WOn'T bE sTiLl

                                pLaYiNg and bLOwInG

                                PlAyIng AND BloWiNg





                                <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Swami Ganga-
                                Puri Kaliuttamananda-Giri" <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
                                > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Era"
                                > > <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                                > > > <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > peace peace, and please forgive me
                                > > > > > for being alive and being myself
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Karta
                                > > > >
                                > > > > i celebrate your being alive ......
                                > > > > i celebrate your being your Self.......
                                > > > > Blessings and Infinite Love
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > thanks SG
                                > > >
                                > > > this makes me very happy
                                > > >
                                > > > love, Karta
                              • satkartar14
                                looks like deaf poetry haha Oniko reminds me of Freyja.. I miss her
                                Message 15 of 18 , Oct 7, 2003
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                                  looks like deaf poetry haha Oniko

                                  reminds me of Freyja.. I miss her




                                  > Un nAtURaL sTiLL NesS
                                  >
                                  > I aM tHe oNe
                                  >
                                  > i sTaND aT tHe cEN tEr oF lOVe
                                  >
                                  > AlL mEn pLaY aT tHe eDGeS oF mY SKiRT
                                  >
                                  > AS iT sWWiSHHes tHe EArthS gRounD
                                  >
                                  > iN My SiL EnCE i tRy tO SmooTh tHe wRin Kles mEn mAKe tHEre
                                  >
                                  > AnD I trY tO sTop tHe IDlE pLaY tHat rUF Fles mY hOLy sKiRt
                                  >
                                  > i BrUsH aNd I BruSH aT tHeSe fOOl iSh mEn
                                  >
                                  > aNd Rea RaNge mY dIVine gArMenT
                                  >
                                  > bUt tHey WOn'T bE sTiLl
                                  >
                                  > pLaYiNg and bLOwInG
                                  >
                                  > PlAyIng AND BloWiNg
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                                  > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Swami Ganga-
                                  > Puri Kaliuttamananda-Giri" <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
                                  > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Era"
                                  > > > <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                                  > > > > <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > peace peace, and please forgive me
                                  > > > > > > for being alive and being myself
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Karta
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > i celebrate your being alive ......
                                  > > > > > i celebrate your being your Self.......
                                  > > > > > Blessings and Infinite Love
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > thanks SG
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > this makes me very happy
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > love, Karta
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