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unnatural stillness

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  • Nina
    Earlier this week, I had an opportunity to attend a local meditation class. In a town full of possibilities to experience the strange theatrical by-products of
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 3, 2003
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      Earlier this week, I had an opportunity to attend a local meditation
      class. In a town full of possibilities to experience the strange
      theatrical by-products of spirituality, I thought this class to be a
      relatively safe haven. As it turned out, it was one of the most
      intense experiences I have had in this spiritual circus town.

      From the time I arrived, 5 minutes early, to the time I left, 5
      minutes late, there was in place an unspoken, but clearly enforced
      rule of 'no contact'. When I arrived, people were already sitting,
      eyes closed. There was no eye contact or greeting from the teacher to
      the students as they arrived. People found their places and went
      directly into sitting. There was some teaching, there were some
      questions. When class ended, everyone packed their cushions, put on
      their shoes, and left. Immediately. Like leaves adrift on a pond,
      staring at the sky - the class gathered, and drifted apart.

      Earlier today, I met a woman who recognized me from the class.
      Carefully, I inquired about her participation and the class.
      Eventually, the key was offered up: a few weeks ago, the teacher had
      advised everyone to leave their stories at the door. A-ha!

      How serious we become! How we constrict!

      It is as if the simple act of greeting another, or making eye
      contact, would betray us. We are unable to leave our story behind. It
      follows us, pulling at our pantlegs, with more or less intensity,
      until the moment we die to this body.

      Why leave our stories at the door, and to struggle with the unnatural
      stillness of that, when the stories are naturally, and with complete
      grace, left at the threshold of meditation?

      (Then again, maybe I've misread the situation. Could be that it is
      none of the above, and that the people of the class, as my husband
      explained to me, were only late for the mothership.)

      Nina
    • Era
      ... dear Nina my angel, I was thinking on your post and than I couldn t resist anymore to answer with my 0.02$ Since imho you are one of the most enlightened
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 5, 2003
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        "Nina" <murrkis@y...> wrote:
        > Earlier this week, I had an opportunity to attend a local meditation
        > class. In a town full of possibilities to experience the strange
        > theatrical by-products of spirituality, I thought this class to be a
        > relatively safe haven. As it turned out, it was one of the most
        > intense experiences I have had in this spiritual circus town.
        >
        > From the time I arrived, 5 minutes early, to the time I left, 5
        > minutes late, there was in place an unspoken, but clearly enforced
        > rule of 'no contact'. When I arrived, people were already sitting,
        > eyes closed. There was no eye contact or greeting from the teacher to
        > the students as they arrived. People found their places and went
        > directly into sitting. There was some teaching, there were some
        > questions. When class ended, everyone packed their cushions, put on
        > their shoes, and left. Immediately. Like leaves adrift on a pond,
        > staring at the sky - the class gathered, and drifted apart.
        >
        > Earlier today, I met a woman who recognized me from the class.
        > Carefully, I inquired about her participation and the class.
        > Eventually, the key was offered up: a few weeks ago, the teacher had
        > advised everyone to leave their stories at the door. A-ha!
        >
        > How serious we become! How we constrict!
        >
        > It is as if the simple act of greeting another, or making eye
        > contact, would betray us. We are unable to leave our story behind. It
        > follows us, pulling at our pantlegs, with more or less intensity,
        > until the moment we die to this body.
        >
        > Why leave our stories at the door, and to struggle with the unnatural
        > stillness of that, when the stories are naturally, and with complete
        > grace, left at the threshold of meditation?
        >
        > (Then again, maybe I've misread the situation. Could be that it is
        > none of the above, and that the people of the class, as my husband
        > explained to me, were only late for the mothership.)
        >
        > Nina

        dear Nina my angel,

        I was thinking on your post and than
        I couldn't resist anymore to answer
        with my 0.02$

        Since imho you are one of the most
        enlightened and intelligent person on
        this forum, if you wish I can call
        you Swami, or Baba or somethin' like
        thats gonna change *Realty* lol

        Truth can not be manipulated

        what is IS, Timothy Leary

        spirituality 101

        anyway, the shakti: one's sex drive,
        ego, intentions, understanding,
        ethical values, Consciousness, Awareness
        soul are all in the eyes of everyone

        those for the holy tradition o
        transference through Darshan

        if a violent, or a mentally disturbed
        creature looks into an innocent child's
        eye, the seed of its damage is planted,
        a gaze does awoke something

        please take my word for this; entities
        the essences of others are highly
        contagious, so to speak

        even online, let alone with eye-contact!

        so is the circus created: the action
        the *reality* by us humans

        so if you want to sit down in meditation
        and ONLY!!! deal with your own 'shit'
        and not add others to it: it is best
        to stay away from all contacts before meditation

        I know, for someone as pure and
        transparent as yourself without any
        holy, guru, or any kind of ill ego
        this fact never occurred, because you
        can share your precious self without
        an agenda, but with abundance and with

        Infinite Love always

        you ARE THAT!


        love, Karta
      • Swami Ganga-Puri Kaliuttamananda-Giri
        ... (removed for space) I know, for someone as pure and transparent as yourself without any holy, guru, or any kind of ill ego this fact never occurred,
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 5, 2003
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          > Since imho you are one of the most
          > enlightened and intelligent person on
          > this forum, if you wish I can call
          > you Swami, or Baba or somethin' like
          > thats gonna change *Realty* lol

          (removed for space)

          I know, for someone as pure and
          transparent as yourself without any
          holy, guru, or any kind of ill ego
          this fact never occurred, because you
          can share your precious self without
          an agenda, but with abundance and with

          > Infinite Love always
          >
          > you ARE THAT!
          >
          >
          > love, Karta


          Karta - Swami is not something that you simply decide to call
          someone ...... it is a term for a consecrated hindu renunciate ....

          my question is WHY this sarcastic bent ?

          it is like making fun of a nun and putting her down because
          others call her *sister* ----- it is simply a pointing that she is a
          christian renunciate ....... would you deride that term and then
          sling it as an epitaph and say like it would change *Reality* ?


          Respect goes two ways ....... if you want it ---- you might want to
          try giving a little without the continuous slights thrown in here and
          there around the net .......

          by the way there is an open letter for you at Sarlos addressing
          the uncalled for remarks and slanders you have made towards
          me there ....... i have no ill will towards you as whatever pain
          you are in is projecting itself in many directions....... i am not
          your enemy and never have been........


          Infinite Love bears all things ---- it continues to give ------
          Infinite Love has no strings - it cares not to bind but only set
          free that which is bound.........
        • Era
          ... dear SG I read it but, I unsubed from Sarlo the minute when Devi called you enlightened, just protecting my eyes from all the light you two were emanating
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Swami Ganga-Puri Kaliuttamananda-Giri" <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
            >
            > > Since imho you are one of the most
            > > enlightened and intelligent person on
            > > this forum, if you wish I can call
            > > you Swami, or Baba or somethin' like
            > > thats gonna change *Realty* lol
            >
            > (removed for space)
            >
            > I know, for someone as pure and
            > transparent as yourself without any
            > holy, guru, or any kind of ill ego
            > this fact never occurred, because you
            > can share your precious self without
            > an agenda, but with abundance and with
            >
            > > Infinite Love always
            > >
            > > you ARE THAT!
            > >
            > >
            > > love, Karta
            >
            >
            > Karta - Swami is not something that you simply decide to call
            > someone ...... it is a term for a consecrated hindu renunciate ....
            >
            > my question is WHY this sarcastic bent ?
            >
            > it is like making fun of a nun and putting her down because
            > others call her *sister* ----- it is simply a pointing that she is a
            > christian renunciate ....... would you deride that term and then
            > sling it as an epitaph and say like it would change *Reality* ?
            >
            >
            > Respect goes two ways ....... if you want it ---- you might want to
            > try giving a little without the continuous slights thrown in here and
            > there around the net .......
            >
            > by the way there is an open letter for you at Sarlos addressing
            > the uncalled for remarks and slanders you have made towards
            > me there


            dear SG

            I read it

            but, I unsubed from Sarlo the minute
            when Devi called you enlightened, just protecting my eyes from all the light
            you two were emanating there

            I had and have no quarrel with you,
            I like and respect the work you do.

            Devi irritates me with her
            *enlightenment* obsession and

            I do respond when they call me
            twofaced!!!!

            I did never endorsed your enlightenment
            higher than it is

            I am sure you know that there are
            various debts to that term

            SO REFRAIN YOURSELF TO CALL ME TWOFACED!

            you don't understand me and never did

            Karta


            ....... i have no ill will towards you as whatever pain
            > you are in is projecting itself in many directions....... i am not
            > your enemy and never have been........
            >
            >
            > Infinite Love bears all things ---- it continues to give ------
            > Infinite Love has no strings - it cares not to bind but only set
            > free that which is bound.........
          • Era
            I use and do respect the word and what it conotes: Enlightened only for the likes of saints like Ramana Maharshi, or my Master maybe this explaines me
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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              I use and do respect the word and what
              it conotes: "Enlightened" only for the
              likes of saints like Ramana Maharshi,
              or my Master

              maybe this explaines me


              > >
              > > > Since imho you are one of the most
              > > > enlightened and intelligent person on
              > > > this forum, if you wish I can call
              > > > you Swami, or Baba or somethin' like
              > > > thats gonna change *Realty* lol
              > >
              > > (removed for space)
              > >
              > > I know, for someone as pure and
              > > transparent as yourself without any
              > > holy, guru, or any kind of ill ego
              > > this fact never occurred, because you
              > > can share your precious self without
              > > an agenda, but with abundance and with
              > >
              > > > Infinite Love always
              > > >
              > > > you ARE THAT!
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > love, Karta
              > >
              > >
              > > Karta - Swami is not something that you simply decide to call
              > > someone ...... it is a term for a consecrated hindu renunciate ....
              > >
              > > my question is WHY this sarcastic bent ?
              > >
              > > it is like making fun of a nun and putting her down because
              > > others call her *sister* ----- it is simply a pointing that she is a
              > > christian renunciate ....... would you deride that term and then
              > > sling it as an epitaph and say like it would change *Reality* ?
              > >
              > >
              > > Respect goes two ways ....... if you want it ---- you might want to
              > > try giving a little without the continuous slights thrown in here and
              > > there around the net .......
              > >
              > > by the way there is an open letter for you at Sarlos addressing
              > > the uncalled for remarks and slanders you have made towards
              > > me there
              >
              >
              > dear SG
              >
              > I read it
              >
              > but, I unsubed from Sarlo the minute
              > when Devi called you enlightened, just protecting my eyes from all the light
              > you two were emanating there
              >
              > I had and have no quarrel with you,
              > I like and respect the work you do.
              >
              > Devi irritates me with her
              > *enlightenment* obsession and
              >
              > I do respond when they call me
              > twofaced!!!!
              >
              > I did never endorsed your enlightenment
              > higher than it is
              >
              > I am sure you know that there are
              > various debts to that term
              >
              > SO REFRAIN YOURSELF TO CALL ME TWOFACED!
              >
              > you don't understand me and never did
              >
              > Karta
              >
              >
              > ....... i have no ill will towards you as whatever pain
              > > you are in is projecting itself in many directions....... i am not
              > > your enemy and never have been........
              > >
              > >
              > > Infinite Love bears all things ---- it continues to give ------
              > > Infinite Love has no strings - it cares not to bind but only set
              > > free that which is bound.........
            • Nina
              ... Hello, Karta, Thank you for your concern. You seem to be speaking of empathy, the ability to share what another is experiencing, whatever that may be. It
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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                > dear Nina my angel,
                >
                > I was thinking on your post and than
                > I couldn't resist anymore to answer
                > with my 0.02$
                >
                > Since imho you are one of the most
                > enlightened and intelligent person on
                > this forum, if you wish I can call
                > you Swami, or Baba or somethin' like
                > thats gonna change *Realty* lol
                >
                > Truth can not be manipulated
                >
                > what is IS, Timothy Leary
                >
                > spirituality 101
                >
                > anyway, the shakti: one's sex drive,
                > ego, intentions, understanding,
                > ethical values, Consciousness, Awareness
                > soul are all in the eyes of everyone
                >
                > those for the holy tradition o
                > transference through Darshan
                >
                > if a violent, or a mentally disturbed
                > creature looks into an innocent child's
                > eye, the seed of its damage is planted,
                > a gaze does awoke something
                >
                > please take my word for this; entities
                > the essences of others are highly
                > contagious, so to speak
                >
                > even online, let alone with eye-contact!
                >
                > so is the circus created: the action
                > the *reality* by us humans
                >
                > so if you want to sit down in meditation
                > and ONLY!!! deal with your own 'shit'
                > and not add others to it: it is best
                > to stay away from all contacts before meditation
                >
                > I know, for someone as pure and
                > transparent as yourself without any
                > holy, guru, or any kind of ill ego
                > this fact never occurred, because you
                > can share your precious self without
                > an agenda, but with abundance and with
                >
                > Infinite Love always
                >
                > you ARE THAT!
                >
                >
                > love, Karta

                Hello, Karta,

                Thank you for your concern.

                You seem to be speaking of empathy, the
                ability to share what another is experiencing,
                whatever that may be.

                It seems, that empathic understanding can be
                filtered by perception.

                So, where one may see the innocent child
                seeded with violence and mental disturbance,
                another may see the violent and mentally
                disturbed one seeded with innocence.

                At any rate, we may struggle to put up
                barriers to empathy, by removing ourselves
                from the presence of disturbing people,
                but the range of the quantum mind is boundless
                and doesn't discriminate in the ways we might
                like.

                I can claim it all as mine: the innocence,
                violence and mental disturbance. I can also
                see through it.

                The story I wrote, on which you have commented,
                revealed only one aspect of that meditation class.
                It was the story of what was happening between
                quiet lengths of infinity, which I didn't mention.

                I'll leave you with a story I came across
                last night:

                (begin excerpt, p. 210, Brain States by Tom Kenyon, M.A.)

                Belief is a powerful filter of perception
                whether it be a perception of an individual
                or of a group. An incident tha occurred on
                one of Magellan's voyages demonstrates this
                point in a dramatic manner. As the explorer
                sailed around the tip of South America, he
                stopped at a place called Tierra del Fuego,
                the southernmost point in the Western Hemisphere.
                Coming ashore he met some local natives who had
                come out to see the strange visitors. What
                transpired is hard to imagine, but the ship's
                historian documented the event.

                As Magellan came ashore, the natives asked him
                how he got there. He pointed out the the full-masted
                sailing ships at anchor off the coast. Incredible
                as it seems, none of the natives could see the
                ships that were clearly visible to Magellan and
                his crew. The natives had never seen anything
                like sailing ships. They did not expect to see
                them, and so they did not see them.

                According to the historian's records, the first
                person to see the ships was the village shaman
                or witch doctor. He said that if they looked out
                to the sea from the corner of their eyes they
                could see something. Finally, everyone in the
                tribe could see the ships.

                Shamans are trained to "see" and work in the
                inner world of reality. My hunch is that through
                years of entering trance states and working in
                his own "inner reality," the shaman's perception
                was more flexible than the other members of his
                tribe. Thus, he was able to see Magellan's ships
                even though they violated the consensus reality
                of his kinsmen.

                (end excerpt)

                Nina
              • Onniko
                ... That would do it. I call all people enlightened because of something I see, but I agree with you that it s either all or something like a couple of people
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Era"
                  <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                  > I use and do respect the word and what
                  > it conotes: "Enlightened" only for the
                  > likes of saints like Ramana Maharshi,
                  > or my Master
                  >
                  > maybe this explaines me

                  That would do it. I call all people enlightened because of
                  something I see, but I agree with you that it's either all or
                  something like a couple of people on earth. There is no special
                  category for the inbetween. They are just like everyone else.



                  > > > > Since imho you are one of the most
                  > > > > enlightened and intelligent person on
                  > > > > this forum, if you wish I can call
                  > > > > you Swami, or Baba or somethin' like
                  > > > > thats gonna change *Realty* lol
                  > > >
                  > > > (removed for space)
                  > > >
                  > > > I know, for someone as pure and
                  > > > transparent as yourself without any
                  > > > holy, guru, or any kind of ill ego
                  > > > this fact never occurred, because you
                  > > > can share your precious self without
                  > > > an agenda, but with abundance and with
                  > > >
                  > > > > Infinite Love always
                  > > > >
                  > > > > you ARE THAT!
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > love, Karta
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Karta - Swami is not something that you simply decide to
                  call
                  > > > someone ...... it is a term for a consecrated hindu
                  renunciate ....
                  > > >
                  > > > my question is WHY this sarcastic bent ?
                  > > >
                  > > > it is like making fun of a nun and putting her down because
                  > > > others call her *sister* ----- it is simply a pointing that
                  she is a
                  > > > christian renunciate ....... would you deride that term and
                  then
                  > > > sling it as an epitaph and say like it would change
                  *Reality* ?
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Respect goes two ways ....... if you want it ---- you
                  might want to
                  > > > try giving a little without the continuous slights thrown in
                  here and
                  > > > there around the net .......
                  > > >
                  > > > by the way there is an open letter for you at Sarlos
                  addressing
                  > > > the uncalled for remarks and slanders you have made towards
                  > > > me there
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > dear SG
                  > >
                  > > I read it
                  > >
                  > > but, I unsubed from Sarlo the minute
                  > > when Devi called you enlightened, just protecting my eyes from
                  all the light
                  > > you two were emanating there
                  > >
                  > > I had and have no quarrel with you,
                  > > I like and respect the work you do.
                  > >
                  > > Devi irritates me with her
                  > > *enlightenment* obsession and
                  > >
                  > > I do respond when they call me
                  > > twofaced!!!!
                  > >
                  > > I did never endorsed your enlightenment
                  > > higher than it is
                  > >
                  > > I am sure you know that there are
                  > > various debts to that term
                  > >
                  > > SO REFRAIN YOURSELF TO CALL ME TWOFACED!
                  > >
                  > > you don't understand me and never did
                  > >
                  > > Karta
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ....... i have no ill will towards you as whatever pain
                  > > > you are in is projecting itself in many directions....... i
                  am not
                  > > > your enemy and never have been........
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Infinite Love bears all things ---- it continues to give ---
                  ---
                  > > > Infinite Love has no strings - it cares not to bind but
                  only set
                  > > > free that which is bound.........
                • Onniko
                  ... That is a great story, Nina. Thanks. Anyone who hasn t done it in awhile might walk out in the world, today, and include their corner of the eye vision
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Nina"
                    <murrkis@y...> wrote:
                    > > dear Nina my angel,
                    > >
                    > > I was thinking on your post and than
                    > > I couldn't resist anymore to answer
                    > > with my 0.02$
                    > >
                    > > Since imho you are one of the most
                    > > enlightened and intelligent person on
                    > > this forum, if you wish I can call
                    > > you Swami, or Baba or somethin' like
                    > > thats gonna change *Realty* lol
                    > >
                    > > Truth can not be manipulated
                    > >
                    > > what is IS, Timothy Leary
                    > >
                    > > spirituality 101
                    > >
                    > > anyway, the shakti: one's sex drive,
                    > > ego, intentions, understanding,
                    > > ethical values, Consciousness, Awareness
                    > > soul are all in the eyes of everyone
                    > >
                    > > those for the holy tradition o
                    > > transference through Darshan
                    > >
                    > > if a violent, or a mentally disturbed
                    > > creature looks into an innocent child's
                    > > eye, the seed of its damage is planted,
                    > > a gaze does awoke something
                    > >
                    > > please take my word for this; entities
                    > > the essences of others are highly
                    > > contagious, so to speak
                    > >
                    > > even online, let alone with eye-contact!
                    > >
                    > > so is the circus created: the action
                    > > the *reality* by us humans
                    > >
                    > > so if you want to sit down in meditation
                    > > and ONLY!!! deal with your own 'shit'
                    > > and not add others to it: it is best
                    > > to stay away from all contacts before meditation
                    > >
                    > > I know, for someone as pure and
                    > > transparent as yourself without any
                    > > holy, guru, or any kind of ill ego
                    > > this fact never occurred, because you
                    > > can share your precious self without
                    > > an agenda, but with abundance and with
                    > >
                    > > Infinite Love always
                    > >
                    > > you ARE THAT!
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > love, Karta
                    >
                    > Hello, Karta,
                    >
                    > Thank you for your concern.
                    >
                    > You seem to be speaking of empathy, the
                    > ability to share what another is experiencing,
                    > whatever that may be.
                    >
                    > It seems, that empathic understanding can be
                    > filtered by perception.
                    >
                    > So, where one may see the innocent child
                    > seeded with violence and mental disturbance,
                    > another may see the violent and mentally
                    > disturbed one seeded with innocence.
                    >
                    > At any rate, we may struggle to put up
                    > barriers to empathy, by removing ourselves
                    > from the presence of disturbing people,
                    > but the range of the quantum mind is boundless
                    > and doesn't discriminate in the ways we might
                    > like.
                    >
                    > I can claim it all as mine: the innocence,
                    > violence and mental disturbance. I can also
                    > see through it.
                    >
                    > The story I wrote, on which you have commented,
                    > revealed only one aspect of that meditation class.
                    > It was the story of what was happening between
                    > quiet lengths of infinity, which I didn't mention.
                    >
                    > I'll leave you with a story I came across
                    > last night:
                    >
                    > (begin excerpt, p. 210, Brain States by Tom Kenyon, M.A.)
                    >
                    > Belief is a powerful filter of perception
                    > whether it be a perception of an individual
                    > or of a group. An incident tha occurred on
                    > one of Magellan's voyages demonstrates this
                    > point in a dramatic manner. As the explorer
                    > sailed around the tip of South America, he
                    > stopped at a place called Tierra del Fuego,
                    > the southernmost point in the Western Hemisphere.
                    > Coming ashore he met some local natives who had
                    > come out to see the strange visitors. What
                    > transpired is hard to imagine, but the ship's
                    > historian documented the event.
                    >
                    > As Magellan came ashore, the natives asked him
                    > how he got there. He pointed out the the full-masted
                    > sailing ships at anchor off the coast. Incredible
                    > as it seems, none of the natives could see the
                    > ships that were clearly visible to Magellan and
                    > his crew. The natives had never seen anything
                    > like sailing ships. They did not expect to see
                    > them, and so they did not see them.
                    >
                    > According to the historian's records, the first
                    > person to see the ships was the village shaman
                    > or witch doctor. He said that if they looked out
                    > to the sea from the corner of their eyes they
                    > could see something. Finally, everyone in the
                    > tribe could see the ships.
                    >
                    > Shamans are trained to "see" and work in the
                    > inner world of reality. My hunch is that through
                    > years of entering trance states and working in
                    > his own "inner reality," the shaman's perception
                    > was more flexible than the other members of his
                    > tribe. Thus, he was able to see Magellan's ships
                    > even though they violated the consensus reality
                    > of his kinsmen.
                    >
                    > (end excerpt)
                    >
                    > Nina

                    That is a great story, Nina. Thanks. Anyone who hasn't done it in
                    awhile might walk out in the world, today, and include their corner
                    of the eye vision just to see how remarkable the ordinary world is
                    before it gets edited by the guy in front.
                  • Era
                    I thought that members online knew who do I call enlightened, since I made it clear several times, last time when PapaJeff popped up as god in human form this
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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                      I thought that members online knew who
                      do I call enlightened, since I made it
                      clear several times, last time when
                      PapaJeff popped up as god in human form

                      this thingy crashed on me more times
                      than homeless people

                      its is also hard to come of opiates
                      painkillers

                      sorry for being short fused

                      Oniko, to hold a view, that everyone is
                      enlightened is beautiful, but I was
                      trained in dialectical thought, and I can't change that


                      > > I use and do respect the word and what
                      > > it connotes: "Enlightened" only for the
                      > > likes of saints like Ramana Maharshi,
                      > > or my Master
                      > >
                      > > maybe this explains me
                      >
                      > That would do it. I call all people enlightened because of
                      > something I see, but I agree with you that it's either all or
                      > something like a couple of people on earth. There is no special
                      > category for the inbetween. They are just like everyone else.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > > > > > Since imho you are one of the most
                      > > > > > enlightened and intelligent person on
                      > > > > > this forum, if you wish I can call
                      > > > > > you Swami, or Baba or somethin' like
                      > > > > > thats gonna change *Realty* lol
                      > > > >
                      > > > > (removed for space)
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I know, for someone as pure and
                      > > > > transparent as yourself without any
                      > > > > holy, guru, or any kind of ill ego
                      > > > > this fact never occurred, because you
                      > > > > can share your precious self without
                      > > > > an agenda, but with abundance and with
                      > > > >
                      > > > > > Infinite Love always
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > you ARE THAT!
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > love, Karta
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Karta - Swami is not something that you simply decide to
                      > call
                      > > > > someone ...... it is a term for a consecrated hindu
                      > renunciate ....
                      > > > >
                      > > > > my question is WHY this sarcastic bent ?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > it is like making fun of a nun and putting her down because
                      > > > > others call her *sister* ----- it is simply a pointing that
                      > she is a
                      > > > > christian renunciate ....... would you deride that term and
                      > then
                      > > > > sling it as an epitaph and say like it would change
                      > *Reality* ?
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Respect goes two ways ....... if you want it ---- you
                      > might want to
                      > > > > try giving a little without the continuous slights thrown in
                      > here and
                      > > > > there around the net .......
                      > > > >
                      > > > > by the way there is an open letter for you at Sarlos
                      > addressing
                      > > > > the uncalled for remarks and slanders you have made towards
                      > > > > me there
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > dear SG
                      > > >
                      > > > I read it
                      > > >
                      > > > but, I unsubed from Sarlo the minute
                      > > > when Devi called you enlightened, just protecting my eyes from
                      > all the light
                      > > > you two were emanating there
                      > > >
                      > > > I had and have no quarrel with you,
                      > > > I like and respect the work you do.
                      > > >
                      > > > Devi irritates me with her
                      > > > *enlightenment* obsession and
                      > > >
                      > > > I do respond when they call me
                      > > > twofaced!!!!
                      > > >
                      > > > I did never endorsed your enlightenment
                      > > > higher than it is
                      > > >
                      > > > I am sure you know that there are
                      > > > various debts to that term
                      > > >
                      > > > SO REFRAIN YOURSELF TO CALL ME TWOFACED!
                      > > >
                      > > > you don't understand me and never did
                      > > >
                      > > > Karta
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ....... i have no ill will towards you as whatever pain
                      > > > > you are in is projecting itself in many directions....... i
                      > am not
                      > > > > your enemy and never have been........
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Infinite Love bears all things ---- it continues to give ---
                      > ---
                      > > > > Infinite Love has no strings - it cares not to bind but
                      > only set
                      > > > > free that which is bound.........
                    • Era
                      ... thank you Nina for being here and being yourself, and for your patience with me I had to cut out the espressos too, what I was gulping down all day, and I
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Nina" <murrkis@y...> wrote:
                        > > dear Nina my angel,
                        > >
                        > > I was thinking on your post and than
                        > > I couldn't resist anymore to answer
                        > > with my 0.02$
                        > >
                        > > Since imho you are one of the most
                        > > enlightened and intelligent person on
                        > > this forum, if you wish I can call
                        > > you Swami, or Baba or somethin' like
                        > > thats gonna change *Realty* lol
                        > >
                        > > Truth can not be manipulated
                        > >
                        > > what is IS, Timothy Leary
                        > >
                        > > spirituality 101
                        > >
                        > > anyway, the shakti: one's sex drive,
                        > > ego, intentions, understanding,
                        > > ethical values, Consciousness, Awareness
                        > > soul are all in the eyes of everyone
                        > >
                        > > those for the holy tradition o
                        > > transference through Darshan
                        > >
                        > > if a violent, or a mentally disturbed
                        > > creature looks into an innocent child's
                        > > eye, the seed of its damage is planted,
                        > > a gaze does awoke something
                        > >
                        > > please take my word for this; entities
                        > > the essences of others are highly
                        > > contagious, so to speak
                        > >
                        > > even online, let alone with eye-contact!
                        > >
                        > > so is the circus created: the action
                        > > the *reality* by us humans
                        > >
                        > > so if you want to sit down in meditation
                        > > and ONLY!!! deal with your own 'shit'
                        > > and not add others to it: it is best
                        > > to stay away from all contacts before meditation
                        > >
                        > > I know, for someone as pure and
                        > > transparent as yourself without any
                        > > holy, guru, or any kind of ill ego
                        > > this fact never occurred, because you
                        > > can share your precious self without
                        > > an agenda, but with abundance and with
                        > >
                        > > Infinite Love always
                        > >
                        > > you ARE THAT!
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > love, Karta
                        >
                        > Hello, Karta,
                        >
                        > Thank you for your concern.
                        >
                        > You seem to be speaking of empathy, the
                        > ability to share what another is experiencing,
                        > whatever that may be.
                        >
                        > It seems, that empathic understanding can be
                        > filtered by perception.
                        >
                        > So, where one may see the innocent child
                        > seeded with violence and mental disturbance,
                        > another may see the violent and mentally
                        > disturbed one seeded with innocence.
                        >
                        > At any rate, we may struggle to put up
                        > barriers to empathy, by removing ourselves
                        > from the presence of disturbing people,
                        > but the range of the quantum mind is boundless
                        > and doesn't discriminate in the ways we might
                        > like.
                        >
                        > I can claim it all as mine: the innocence,
                        > violence and mental disturbance. I can also
                        > see through it.
                        >
                        > The story I wrote, on which you have commented,
                        > revealed only one aspect of that meditation class.
                        > It was the story of what was happening between
                        > quiet lengths of infinity, which I didn't mention.
                        >
                        > I'll leave you with a story I came across
                        > last night:
                        >
                        > (begin excerpt, p. 210, Brain States by Tom Kenyon, M.A.)
                        >
                        > Belief is a powerful filter of perception
                        > whether it be a perception of an individual
                        > or of a group. An incident tha occurred on
                        > one of Magellan's voyages demonstrates this
                        > point in a dramatic manner. As the explorer
                        > sailed around the tip of South America, he
                        > stopped at a place called Tierra del Fuego,
                        > the southernmost point in the Western Hemisphere.
                        > Coming ashore he met some local natives who had
                        > come out to see the strange visitors. What
                        > transpired is hard to imagine, but the ship's
                        > historian documented the event.
                        >
                        > As Magellan came ashore, the natives asked him
                        > how he got there. He pointed out the the full-masted
                        > sailing ships at anchor off the coast. Incredible
                        > as it seems, none of the natives could see the
                        > ships that were clearly visible to Magellan and
                        > his crew. The natives had never seen anything
                        > like sailing ships. They did not expect to see
                        > them, and so they did not see them.
                        >
                        > According to the historian's records, the first
                        > person to see the ships was the village shaman
                        > or witch doctor. He said that if they looked out
                        > to the sea from the corner of their eyes they
                        > could see something. Finally, everyone in the
                        > tribe could see the ships.
                        >
                        > Shamans are trained to "see" and work in the
                        > inner world of reality. My hunch is that through
                        > years of entering trance states and working in
                        > his own "inner reality," the shaman's perception
                        > was more flexible than the other members of his
                        > tribe. Thus, he was able to see Magellan's ships
                        > even though they violated the consensus reality
                        > of his kinsmen.
                        >
                        > (end excerpt)
                        >
                        > Nina




                        thank you Nina for being here and being yourself,

                        and for your patience with me

                        I had to cut out the espressos too,
                        what I was gulping down all day, and
                        I will be more civil from now on

                        I LOVE YOUR STORIES!

                        love, Karta
                      • Swami Ganga-Puri Kaliuttamananda-Giri
                        ... enlightened, just protecting my eyes from all the light you two were emanating there SG: why do you link me with Devi ? i have no strings with
                        Message 11 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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                          > dear SG
                          >
                          > I read it

                          > but, I unsubed from Sarlo the minute when Devi called you
                          enlightened, just protecting my eyes from all the light you two
                          were emanating there

                          SG: why do you link me with Devi ? i have no strings with
                          either of you .........


                          > I had and have no quarrel with you,
                          > I like and respect the work you do.

                          SG: really ? then what is this as written :


                          K: > she belongs to the circus of self- proclaimed deluded ones
                          together with Judi and you

                          > and the gap between the *understanding" held by Don and
                          Ganga is as big as between you and me

                          SG: that statement is not showing one ounce of
                          respect .......

                          if you are going to be Transparent it
                          means being honest and Ethical in all respects.......

                          if you say you respect me here and then go to Sarlos
                          and post this type of inflamitory statement that is called
                          being double minded or two faced .......

                          Bible Quote : a Double minded man is unstable in all his
                          ways.......... if you want to get a firm foundation that is
                          unshakable one must use the single eye to see ........


                          K> Devi irritates me with her
                          > *enlightenment* obsession and
                          >
                          > I do respond when they call me
                          > twofaced!!!!

                          SG: so once again WHY are you linking me up with Devi ?
                          Why are you projecting what she says onto me and
                          suddenly then taking up this banner that if she sees
                          value and considers me enlightened then of course
                          that proves i am a fraud ?


                          K: > I did never endorsed your enlightenment
                          > higher than it is

                          SG: there is either Enlightenment in which the conditionings
                          are blown out and Liberation IS ....... or it isn't ...... there aren't
                          degrees of enlightenment ......
                          Like pregnancy it either is or is not ...... you can have degrees of
                          relative knowledge but not Self Realization........


                          K; > I am sure you know that there are various debts to that term
                          > SO REFRAIN YOURSELF TO CALL ME TWOFACED!

                          SG: there are debts when you slander a swami ( a renunciate
                          dedicated to God ) ...... but we won't get into that here ...... if you
                          are acting in a double minded way ..... if you are doing two
                          separate actions between here and and somewhere else then
                          that is termed twofaced......... it does not mean necessarily as
                          you might be taking it as a treacherous person not to be trusted
                          but simply that you are acting in two separate manners here and
                          there .........


                          > you don't understand me and never did

                          > Karta

                          SG: what is to understand ? let's try this on for size......


                          you are still searching and at present in a very reactive mode
                          ........
                          you want to trust but are afraid to open yourself to it .........

                          you think that being strong is in building up an ego identity
                          (positive affirmation) rather than letting it go and not needing to
                          control anything..........

                          there is a mistrust of anyone with a label such as guru and it is
                          construed as some projection of being better than others ( while
                          that is not the case at all) ........

                          there is a need to keep secure boundaries in place and seeing
                          things in terms of black and white ......

                          while Sant Thakar Singh wears white and has a title that
                          is well and good...... if anyone else does then they are a
                          sham...
                          My question is what makes it pure for him and you see
                          religious clothes or titles as a sham for others ? is it becuase
                          he is indian ?
                          if you think that he would come as sit down with you and
                          have a one to one conversation, think again ....... and yet you do
                          not see him as being ego centric and caught in a Guru image
                          ......... while there is this very projection on others.........


                          SG: the following words still stand :

                          ....... i have no ill will towards you as whatever pain you are in
                          is projecting itself in many directions....... i am not your enemy
                          and never have been........


                          Infinite Love bears all things ---- it continues to give ------
                          Infinite Love has no strings - it cares not to bind but only set
                          free that which is bound.........

                          i would celebrate your freedom and liberation ......
                        • Era
                          ... she really ticks me off with .. i have no strings with ... I am glad, it puzzles me how I am forced to speak about things I would rather keep to myself ...
                          Message 12 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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                            "Swami Ganga-Puri Kaliuttamananda-Giri" <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > dear SG
                            > >
                            > > I read it
                            >
                            > > but, I unsubed from Sarlo the minute when Devi called you
                            > enlightened, just protecting my eyes from all the light you two
                            > were emanating there
                            >
                            > SG: why do you link me with Devi ?
                            she really ticks me off with ..
                            i have no strings with
                            > either of you .........
                            >
                            I am glad, it puzzles me how I am
                            forced to speak about things I would
                            rather keep to myself
                            >
                            > > I had and have no quarrel with you,
                            > > I like and respect the work you do.
                            >
                            > SG: really ? then what is this as written :
                            >
                            >
                            > K: > she belongs to the circus of self- proclaimed deluded ones
                            > together with Judi and you
                            >



                            dear SG, that is exactly the reason
                            I unsubed from Sarlo because Devi
                            irritates me beyond my endurance,

                            please believe me I would never post
                            such things, only when I am pushed over
                            the top, what the deva succeeds to do
                            on a regular bases; now posting from
                            her Thuraya samadhi

                            and Sarlo thinks, that she is charming

                            oh!!!! somebody help!!!!!

                            I live in my world, with my value
                            system, with my understanding of what
                            enlightenment is and wo is and who is
                            not, and will not lye about it


                            > > and the gap between the *understanding" held by Don and
                            > Ganga is as big as between you and me
                            >
                            > SG: that statement is not showing one ounce of
                            > respect .......
                            >
                            > if you are going to be Transparent it
                            > means being honest and Ethical in all respects.......
                            >
                            > if you say you respect me here and then go to Sarlos
                            > and post this type of inflamitory statement that is called
                            > being double minded or two faced .......
                            >
                            > Bible Quote : a Double minded man is unstable in all his
                            > ways.......... if you want to get a firm foundation that is
                            > unshakable one must use the single eye to see ........
                            >
                            >
                            > K> Devi irritates me with her
                            > > *enlightenment* obsession and
                            > >
                            > > I do respond when they call me
                            > > twofaced!!!!
                            >
                            > SG: so once again WHY are you linking me up with Devi ?
                            > Why are you projecting what she says onto me and
                            > suddenly then taking up this banner that if she sees
                            > value and considers me enlightened then of course
                            > that proves i am a fraud ?
                            >
                            >
                            > K: > I did never endorsed your enlightenment
                            > > higher than it is
                            >
                            > SG: there is either Enlightenment in which the conditionings
                            > are blown out and Liberation IS ....... or it isn't ...... there aren't
                            > degrees of enlightenment ......
                            > Like pregnancy it either is or is not



                            you said it than, not me <grin>



                            ...... you can have degrees of
                            > relative knowledge but not Self Realization........
                            >
                            >
                            > K; > I am sure you know that there are various debts to that term
                            > > SO REFRAIN YOURSELF TO CALL ME TWOFACED!
                            >
                            > SG: there are debts when you slander a swami ( a renunciate
                            > dedicated to God ) ...... but we won't get into that here ...... if you
                            > are acting in a double minded way ..... if you are doing two
                            > separate actions between here and and somewhere else then
                            > that is termed twofaced......... it does not mean necessarily as
                            > you might be taking it as a treacherous person not to be trusted
                            > but simply that you are acting in two separate manners here and
                            > there .........
                            >
                            >
                            > > you don't understand me and never did
                            >
                            > > Karta
                            >
                            > SG: what is to understand ? let's try this on for size......
                            >



                            Oh! SG don't ware me down please!
                            you always did misinterpreted me

                            ALWAYS! lookig through your heavily
                            colored glasses which I have nohing
                            to do with




                            >
                            > you are still searching and at present in a very reactive mode



                            keep your pseudo analysis to your self
                            please, you don't know me what was
                            proved over and over how you mis
                            understood me in the past also

                            and imo your divisions and fixation with
                            seekers and searchers and masters and
                            gurus is childish




                            > ........
                            > you want to trust but are afraid to open yourself to it .........
                            >
                            > you think that being strong is in building up an ego identity
                            > (positive affirmation) rather than letting it go and not needing to
                            > control anything..........
                            >
                            > there is a mistrust of anyone with a label such as guru and it is
                            > construed as some projection of being better than others ( while
                            > that is not the case at all) ........
                            >
                            > there is a need to keep secure boundaries in place and seeing
                            > things in terms of black and white ......
                            >
                            > while Sant Thakar Singh wears white



                            He is a sikh, that is their attire
                            accept the radical ones; who have
                            hotpink turbans


                            > and has a title that
                            > is well and good...... if anyone else does then they are a
                            > sham...



                            no, I never said that your title is
                            a sham, never and I adore your initiation
                            mystic flame dancing Siva photos

                            and wish you the best with your journey


                            > My question is what makes it pure for him and you see
                            > religious clothes or titles as a sham for others ? is it because
                            > he is indian ?
                            > if you think that he would come as sit down with you and
                            > have a one to one conversation, think again ....... and yet you do
                            > not see him as being ego centric and caught in a Guru image
                            > ......... while there is this very projection on others.........
                            >
                            >
                            > SG: the following words still stand :
                            >
                            > ....... i have no ill will towards you
                            yes, I always knew, that dear SG
                            > as whatever pain you are in
                            > is projecting itself in many directions....... i am not your enemy
                            > and never have been........
                            >
                            >
                            > Infinite Love bears all things ---- it continues to give ------
                            > Infinite Love has no strings - it cares not to bind but only set
                            > free that which is bound.........
                            >
                            > i would celebrate your freedom and
                            liberation ......



                            peace peace, and please forgive me
                            for being alive and being myself


                            Karta
                          • Swami Ganga-Puri Kaliuttamananda-Giri
                            ... i celebrate your being alive ...... i celebrate your being your Self....... but cringe when that spills over into tearing apart another in order to think
                            Message 13 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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                              >
                              > peace peace, and please forgive me
                              > for being alive and being myself
                              >
                              >
                              > Karta

                              i celebrate your being alive ......
                              i celebrate your being your Self.......
                              but cringe when that spills over into tearing apart another in
                              order to think you can keep your center, that way .......

                              Peace is a center ...... Infinite Love needs hold no center
                              it's transparent nature gives simply due to its very nature of
                              presenting freedom rather than bondage.........

                              Blessings and Infinite Love
                            • Era
                              ... thanks SG this makes me very happy love, Karta
                              Message 14 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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                                <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
                                >
                                > >
                                > > peace peace, and please forgive me
                                > > for being alive and being myself
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Karta
                                >
                                > i celebrate your being alive ......
                                > i celebrate your being your Self.......
                                > Blessings and Infinite Love


                                thanks SG

                                this makes me very happy

                                love, Karta
                              • Swami Ganga-Puri Kaliuttamananda-Giri
                                ... SG: you have edited it ........ what you have taken out is just as important as what is left ........... but cringe when that spills over into
                                Message 15 of 18 , Oct 6, 2003
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                                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Era"
                                  <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                                  > <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > peace peace, and please forgive me
                                  > > > for being alive and being myself
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Karta
                                  > >
                                  > > i celebrate your being alive ......
                                  > > i celebrate your being your Self.......
                                  > > Blessings and Infinite Love
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > thanks SG
                                  >
                                  > this makes me very happy
                                  >
                                  > love, Karta



                                  SG: you have edited it ........ what you have taken out is just
                                  as important as what is left ...........

                                  but cringe when that spills over into tearing apart another in
                                  order to think you can keep your center, that way .......

                                  Peace is a center ...... Infinite Love needs hold no center
                                  it's transparent nature gives simply due to its very nature of
                                  presenting freedom rather than bondage.........


                                  Blessings and Infinite Love
                                • Era
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Oct 7, 2003
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                                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Swami Ganga-Puri Kaliuttamananda-Giri" <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
                                    > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Era"
                                    > <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                                    > > <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > peace peace, and please forgive me
                                    > > > > for being alive and being myself
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Karta
                                    > > >
                                    > > > i celebrate your being alive ......
                                    > > > i celebrate your being your Self.......
                                    > > > Blessings and Infinite Love
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > thanks SG
                                    > >
                                    > > this makes me very happy
                                    > >
                                    > > love, Karta
                                  • Onniko
                                    ... Un nAtURaL sTiLL NesS I aM tHe oNe i sTaND aT tHe cEN tEr oF lOVe AlL mEn pLaY aT tHe eDGeS oF mY SKiRT AS iT sWWiSHHes tHe EArthS gRounD iN My SiL EnCE i
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Oct 7, 2003
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                                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Era"

                                      Un nAtURaL sTiLL NesS

                                      I aM tHe oNe

                                      i sTaND aT tHe cEN tEr oF lOVe

                                      AlL mEn pLaY aT tHe eDGeS oF mY SKiRT

                                      AS iT sWWiSHHes tHe EArthS gRounD

                                      iN My SiL EnCE i tRy tO SmooTh tHe wRin Kles mEn mAKe tHEre

                                      AnD I trY tO sTop tHe IDlE pLaY tHat rUF Fles mY hOLy sKiRt

                                      i BrUsH aNd I BruSH aT tHeSe fOOl iSh mEn

                                      aNd Rea RaNge mY dIVine gArMenT

                                      bUt tHey WOn'T bE sTiLl

                                      pLaYiNg and bLOwInG

                                      PlAyIng AND BloWiNg





                                      <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                                      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Swami Ganga-
                                      Puri Kaliuttamananda-Giri" <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
                                      > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Era"
                                      > > <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                                      > > > <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > peace peace, and please forgive me
                                      > > > > > for being alive and being myself
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Karta
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > i celebrate your being alive ......
                                      > > > > i celebrate your being your Self.......
                                      > > > > Blessings and Infinite Love
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > thanks SG
                                      > > >
                                      > > > this makes me very happy
                                      > > >
                                      > > > love, Karta
                                    • satkartar14
                                      looks like deaf poetry haha Oniko reminds me of Freyja.. I miss her
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Oct 7, 2003
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        looks like deaf poetry haha Oniko

                                        reminds me of Freyja.. I miss her




                                        > Un nAtURaL sTiLL NesS
                                        >
                                        > I aM tHe oNe
                                        >
                                        > i sTaND aT tHe cEN tEr oF lOVe
                                        >
                                        > AlL mEn pLaY aT tHe eDGeS oF mY SKiRT
                                        >
                                        > AS iT sWWiSHHes tHe EArthS gRounD
                                        >
                                        > iN My SiL EnCE i tRy tO SmooTh tHe wRin Kles mEn mAKe tHEre
                                        >
                                        > AnD I trY tO sTop tHe IDlE pLaY tHat rUF Fles mY hOLy sKiRt
                                        >
                                        > i BrUsH aNd I BruSH aT tHeSe fOOl iSh mEn
                                        >
                                        > aNd Rea RaNge mY dIVine gArMenT
                                        >
                                        > bUt tHey WOn'T bE sTiLl
                                        >
                                        > pLaYiNg and bLOwInG
                                        >
                                        > PlAyIng AND BloWiNg
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                                        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Swami Ganga-
                                        > Puri Kaliuttamananda-Giri" <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
                                        > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Era"
                                        > > > <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                                        > > > > <manjusrilotus@y...> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > peace peace, and please forgive me
                                        > > > > > > for being alive and being myself
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Karta
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > i celebrate your being alive ......
                                        > > > > > i celebrate your being your Self.......
                                        > > > > > Blessings and Infinite Love
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > thanks SG
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > this makes me very happy
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > love, Karta
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