Re: organism and identity re: maria luisa
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Nina"
> > > > > > > Hi, Maria Luisa, I have no bones (tee hee) with yourbody
> > > > > > > words, except that I did want to point out that the
> > > > > > > organism is part of the identity and part of what may beI enjoyed reading this.
> > > > > > > protected.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To stop and observe reactions to threats
> > > > > > > we typically ascribe to 'being of the mind'
> > > > > > > and thus only 'threats to identity',
> > > > > > > will reveal that these 'threats to identity'
> > > > > > > correspond integrally with 'threats to the body'.
> > > > > > > The converse is also observable.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nina
> > > > > >
> > > > > > YES NINA,
> > > > > > BUT HAVE YOU SOMEHOW KNOWN OR NOTICED THAT EVEN
> > > > > > THE BODY ORGANISM IS ANOTHER PROJECTION OF MIND?
> > > > > > IT'S AS UNGRASPABLE AS ANYTHING ELSE
> > > > > > ONCE UNDERSTOOD AS A COMPOUND OF PERCEPTIONS
> > > > > > (VIA THE FIVE SENSES).
> > > > > > I THINK WE ARE TRAPPED IN THE FIVE SENSES
> > > > > > MORE THAN WE ACCEPT IT.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > LOVE,
> > > > > > ML
> > >
> > > Hello, Maria Luisa,
> > >
> > > I'm not entirely comfortable with the word 'projection'
> > > as you have used it, but I'll go along with it:
> > >
> > > Agreed, that the body organism is a projection of mind.
> > > However, mind is also a projection of the body organism.
> > > The two feed each other, and are united in that feeding.
> > >
> > > It's another chicken and egg story.
> > >
> > > The mind speaks in thoughts, the body in sensation.
> > > Thoughts and sensations are both expressions of stimulation.
> > >
> > > Where does the stimulation come from?
> > >
> > > What prompts a thought or a sensation to arise?
> > >
> > > Nina
> > No Nina,
> > sorry, sorry, but no.
> > There is the Self or Consciousness,
> > the basis, the substratum.
> > From the Self or Consciousness
> > the first cognition, "I", arises.
> > "I" is the first thing for any other thought to arise,
> > the thought of a body, the thought of a world,
> > the thought of a me in the world, etc.
> > This thoughts are what i term as MIND.
> > Mind is thought, and thought does not come from a body,
> > it comes from Consciousness.
> > Stimulations are responses to accumulated memories,
> > (ask Gene about samskaras, or tendencies).
> > Thoughts arise spontaneously, they get an order by their own,
> > ones come first, others come afterwards, time is created.
> > maria luisa
> Why be sorry, Maria Luisa? Let's look at this again..
> What is required, for the "I" thought to arise?
> Allow me to put forth,
> that the "I" thought is a complex thought
> that is not simple differentiation
> of "me" from "Consciousness",
> but rather,
> differentiation of "me" from
> a datum which exists prior to the "I" thought.
> What is required, for a newborn
> to come into the "I" thought?
> In other words,
> what is this datum that must exist prior to the "I" thought?
> Allow me to put forth,
> that the newly conceived human
> has no sense of "I" prior to birth,
> there is a vast, timeless undifferentiated being.
> What happens?
> There forms a body, through mytosis,
> which is the splitting and differentiation of cells.
> Has the "I" thought arisen in the mind of the newly conceived?
> No, but it has arisen in the body of the newly conceived.
> One cell declares, "I am a liver cell."
> The next declares, "I am a muscle cell."
> The newly conceived human, however, has no "I" sense.
> Duality, however, is working its way up
> through the newly conceived's cells,
> waiting for the pieces to be put in place
> and for the quickening to build
> to the moment where the newborn is propelled
> into a most profound experience of
> mytosis: that of birth, the rending of
> the newly conceived from union with the mother.
> A newly conceived human, has no sense
> of 'void/form', 'push/pull', 'up/down', 'light/dark', etc.
> as the newly conceived human has not yet
> experienced these dualities. A newborn, however,
> rapidly assimilates these experiences, which
> register as profound realizations, obscuring
> the void of prebirth.
> It is in the rapid assimilation of these experiences
> of difference, that the "I" sense begins to form,
> from most simple to the most complex.
> It is through the body that these experiences are had,
> and it is through the body, that the mind
> forms the original sense of "I".
> Samskaras are nothing but accumulations of
> experiences of difference. It may be seen
> that the root of samskara is found in our
> cellular function, in the dynamics of birth,
> and in the flurry of realizations immediately
> following birth.
> It is only later, when the original moment of
> the arising "I" thought is completely lost,
> that it seems that "I" have always been present,
> that "I" is the first thought that arises.
> By this time, the "I" thought is so well-ingrained
> as to its purpose, the perpetuation of the "I",
> that it has convinced us, that there is nothing but "I"
> as the source of thought.
> It might be said, that the "I" awareness percolates
> from the bottom up, from the cells into the mind,
> which is only the most superficial, graspable
> sheath of millions of functions within the bodymind.
> You have no doubt heard, in your study of yoga,
> that the mind is a sense organ. The body is an
> integral part of that sensing. Without the body,
> without the living breath, the mind has no ground,
> and so, dissolves. Where does your thinking mind
> go upon death? Back into the void.
> There can be no thinking mind without the body.
> Likewise, body does not exist without some form of
> thinking mind. They are an inseparable siamese twin,
> saying "I" am not "you", but at the same time,
> sharing the most vital of organs and fluids.
> Do you see here, I am not speaking of "thoughts of
> the body" or "thoughts of the mind", but rather,
> about a functional relationship between body and mind?
> I am also pointing to the origins of this relationship,
> from a place where sensation in the body comes into being
> at the same time that thought in the mind comes into being.
> We may never understand how it is that the origination
> of all this arising was stimulated. We must go way back
> to find this, well before the arising of my "I" thought,
> well before the arising of my cellular division, and that
> of my ancestors, and the world that bore my ancestors.
> It is the epic tale of genesis - and that is the truly
> ungraspable piece, beyond imagination, beyond thinking.
> You let me know if this isn't a simple enough. ;)
- --- In email@example.com, "Nina" <murrkis@y...> wrote:
> > > When the inspiration fails, it is no worse thanNina, you just made my day
> > > a sandcastle being washed away by the beach tide.
> > > Tomorrow, I build another sandcastle.
> > >
> > > The thing is, I do know that at any time, I could
> > > let go of the sandcastle building... but why?
> > > Maybe you know why and would share the why...
> > SG: one perhaps builds sandcastles until there is no longer
> > an attachment to building and creating a structured form ......
> > Inspirations may be wrapped up in sandcastles .....
> > perhaps at that point one simply creates them out of the joy of
> > the moment..... not expecting them to last but simply for the
> > beauty and joy of spontaneous art and motion which flows from
> > the Bliss of Being here now in this place in this moment .......
> > it needs not carry behind it some representation or hidden
> > meaning it simply is as it is Beautiful and sacred within it's own
> > right.......
> > then as in all things (this creation of the moment) simply falls
> > away so that another image may take its place
> > First one goes beyond the transient unfolding play before it is
> > fully understood and appreciated for what it is ....... then one
> > steps back into the lila and play simply Enjoying that lila as an
> > expression of Infinite Love in motion........
> > Formless or Form it is the same Essense
> > minus the distinguishing factors .....
> > SG: hahahahaha perhaps so .... everything proceeds from
> > Source and returns to Source in some manner......
> > Infinite Love
> 1. There are pictures of this sandcastle building: faded square
> photographs with radiused corners, the blues and greens and sand
> colors of photographs from that time, the reds always slightly
> pungent, as if the pigment were wired and erratic, unsure of its
> place in the film. There we are, squatting in the sand: my blond-
> haired mother, sitting aside, arm around the barrel-chest of the
> small grey dog; my father and a very small I sitting together,
> scraping sand into forms. What the photograph barely hints at is the
> joy of building that sandcastle, part enjoyment of the sand and
> water, part thrill and satisfaction of building it with my father.
> What the photograph doesn't contain is what came later. After
> building it, I felt so much happiness and pride; we played in the
> water, and I kept looking back to see that sandcastle sitting before
> the waves. Then the two boys came, stepping into the sandcastle,
> crushing it. I cried salt tears to the sea, inconsolable, and unable
> to explain or even understand that the greatest loss was not the
> sandcastle, but what the sandcastle represented.
> 2. We like to go early to the beach, before the beach patrol comes on
> line, and let our dogs run off leash. One morning, on the way back,
> we are walking close to the dunes, past a sandcastle left above the
> tide line. One of the dogs stalks the sandcastle, circling it,
> sniffing it carefully, as if the castle might move. She notes the
> hollow center of the castle, and daintily scratches it with one paw,
> once, twice. Moving within the hollow, she begins to dig, throwing
> large arcs of sand beneath and behind her, very efficiently deepening
> the hollow. Sufficiently inspired, she leaps from the castle, and
> runs circles on the beach. She is amazing, lean muscle and arching
> back, her earth-pounding feet carrying her so close to us on her
> returns that her breath is heard and wake is felt.
> 3. After the walk, I remain on the beach after the others return
> home. The sun is coming up, pink and orange, and the sky is humid and
> a thick blue-grey. The moon is still out, and a few stars, but are
> gradually fading in a sky that is approaching their brilliance. I
> stand within the laps of the waves, and look out to the rocking
> shrimp boats, and the long, thin horizon beyond. With each receding
> wave, the water draws sand from beneath the edges of my feet.
> Eventually, I am balancing on two pyramids beneath my arches. I find
> that if I am not perfectly balanced through the soles of my feet as
> these pyramids form, that eventually I must cling to the tops of the
> pyramids with the muscles of my legs, lest my feet slide from the
> pyramids. I stand for a long while like this, trying on new pyramids,
> learning as a matter of course what it is to be perfectly balanced
> within my soles, and how transparent and effortless that feels,
> watching the night suns recede as I am warmed by the heat advancing
> in the eastern sky. At some point, the shrimp boats disappear, and I
> take that as my cue to leave.
> Thanks for your letter, SG.