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Re: maria luisa/UNDERSTANDING

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  • Onniko
    ... help ... thought, ... to ... notions. ... of ... EVERYTHING ... ANY ... *Yes, that does seem to be the case. ... * By chemical, I mean the emotional part,
    Message 1 of 105 , Sep 29, 2003
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "maria luisa"
      <mlcanow@y...> wrote:
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Onniko"
      > <onniko@y...> wrote:
      > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "maria luisa"
      > > <mlcanow@y...> wrote:
      > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Era"
      > > > <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
      > > > > > I have asked myself many times: Does this understanding
      help
      > > in
      > > > some
      > > > > > way?
      > > > > > And the answer is yes, of course. It is liberating because
      > it
      > > > makes
      > > > > > it very easy too not get trapped in the process of
      thought,
      > > > > > concepts, ideas, conditionings, etc. So it is much easier
      to
      > > > step
      > > > > > aside from suffering and identification with false
      notions.
      > A
      > > > clear
      > > > > > mind, is said to be this. Ecuanimity, balance, etc. ahhh,
      > and
      > > of
      > > > > > course, increasing peace (of mind, what else?). So yes, it
      > > helps
      > > > > > (mind, of course).
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > Dear Karta,
      > > > i am going to answer as i see it.
      > > >
      > > > > so true
      > > > >
      > > > > I don't understand my reactivity to
      > > > > put downs and name callings
      > > >
      > > > it is the mind reacting because it wants to protect itself
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > or why do I care who says what online
      > > >
      > > > same reason, always mind trying to protect its self created
      > image.
      > > >
      >
      > (CAPITALS FOR BETTER READING IN ALL THIS WORDS HERE)
      >
      > > Hi, ML...it sounds here as if you speak of the mind as capable
      of
      > > having feelings or caring one way or the other.
      >
      > WITHIN THE WORDS I USE, I INTEND TO PUT THE WORD MIND AS
      EVERYTHING
      > THAT MOVES. THIS INCLUDES 'CAPABILITY', FEELINGS', 'CARING' (OR
      ANY
      > OTHER VERB), AND MIND ITSELF.
      >
      > If we imagine that
      > > the logical mind is just putting out the possibilities that any
      > > given input caused it it look for, then where are these feelings
      > > coming from?
      >
      > AS REACTIONS TO STIMULUS.
      >
      > > Aren't they just as automatic?
      >
      > MAYBE, BUT THERE CAN BE OBSERVANCE THAT BY ITSELF SLOWS DOWN THE
      > MOVEMENT AND SPEED OF REACTIONS (EMOTIONAL ONES?)

      *Yes, that does seem to be the case.

      > > Chemical responses that
      > > match ideas and ideas that are brought into consciousness by
      > > chemical responses...
      >
      > I'M NOT SURE THAT ALL REDUCES TO CHEMICAL. I WOULD THINK THAT ALSO
      > SUBCONSCIOUS MEMORIES RELATED TO PLEASURABLE OR UNPLEASURABLE
      > SITUATIONS WOULD CONDITION OUR REACTIONS.

      * By chemical, I mean the emotional part, the physical reaction. A
      bit of 'stuff' in the blood and the thinking part will bring up
      thoughts to match the emotion as well as visa versa and the ping
      pong effect of it all will make the problem seems greater than it
      ever was, if, in fact, there was ever a problem at all.

      > > give and take between the two? But, is either
      > > capable of trying to protect itself or is the response pattern a
      > > genetic plan to protect the organism?
      >
      > I DON'T SEE A PROTECTION OF ANY ORGANISM IN THE THINGS WE ARE
      > OBSERVING HERE (SUCH AS KARTA'S REACTIONS TO DEVI'S WORDS, WHICH
      > SEEMS TO BE THE EXAMPLE WE ARE STUDYING HERE). WHAT I SEE IS A
      > PROTECTION OF A SELF CREATED IMAGE, A PSYCOLOGICAL CONCEPT OF
      > OURSELVES, A PATTERN WE HAVE CONSTRUCTED WITH SO MUCH EFFORT THAT
      > THERE IS THE APPARENT FEAR OF LOOSING THE ENERGY PUT ON IT, OR
      > SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

      *No, there's no real danger, just a runaway train.


      > > Aren't you really kind of
      > > saying that you have an overide button used by a more conscious
      > > observer self that can be used when it's clear that no real
      danger
      > > exists?
      >
      > WELL, I DON'T THINK THERE ARE ANY BUTTONS (IT WOULD BE MUCH
      EASIER,
      > DON'T YOU AGREE? ......PUSHING A BUTTON, AND KAPUT! HOW NICE).
      WHAT
      > I AM SAYING IS THAT MIND IS AT THE SAME TIME AN INSTRUMENT AND A
      > LOAD. IT IS THE TOOL FOR UNDERSTANDING ITS OWN CONFUSSIONS. VERY
      > PARADOXICAL, AND A LOT OF STUDIES IN PSYCOLOGY, PSICHIATRY,
      SCIENCE,
      > PHILOSOPHY, ETC, ALONG HISTORY OF HUMAN THOUGHT. AND THIS MAY BE
      > LONG TO STUDY AND MAYBE SOME THEORIES APPARENTLY CONTRADICTORY
      > BETWEEM THEMSELVES, CAUSING MORE CONFUSSION. THERE'S NO NEED FOR
      SO
      > MUCH STUDIES. IT'S NOT DIFFICULT TO APPRECIATE THE REAL POSSIBLITY
      > WE ALL HAVE OF "OBSERVING". WE ARE ABLE TO "OBSERVE". AND WE
      > OBSERVE "OURSELVES" UNTIL THE QUESTION ABOUT "WHO" WE ARE ARRIVES.
      > THERE'S NOT A MORE CONSCIOUS OBSERVER THAN ANOTHER WITHIN MY OWN
      > SELF. THERE IS ONLY THE ACT OF OBSERVING. THE ACTION. THAT'S ALL
      > THERE IS. ACTION OR MOVEMENT OVER A FIELD OF STILLNESS. WHEN THE
      > TRUE, REAL, NAKED QUESTION OF: WHO AM I? COMES, THE DISCOVERY OR
      > WHAT IS LEFT IS THIS STILLED FIELD OVER WHICH ALL THE MOVEMENTS
      > OCCUR. ALL THESE MOVEMENTS ARE WHAT I TERM MIND. THE FIELD OF
      > STILLNESS IS THAT I AM. SO THIS IS WHY ALL ARISES FORM ME, IS
      > SUSTAINED IN ME AND RETURNS TO ME.

      > >
      > > > > but I do care and I am effected
      > > >
      > > > sorry...you "think" you are affected. What is affected is
      mind,
      > > not
      > > > you. YOU are not mind.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > SGanga just wrote a wise letter saying
      > > > > she gets a lot of those but it leaves
      > > > > her uneffected
      > > >
      > > > because she knows this things come from mind, and she also
      knows
      > > she
      > > > is not mind.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Karta
      > > > >
      > > > > balance is good thing
      > > >
      > > > a good way to practice balance (of mind) is taking a break of
      5
      > > > seconds before reacting (some deep breaths, maybe?) to the
      anger
      > > > that borns from mind. You may know how advanced you are in
      your
      > > own
      > > > ability to be in balance by your reactivity. Be active, not re-
      > > > active. And much better, see how action and reaction are just
      > > > happenings that have nothing to do with the real YOU.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > > Much love,
      > > > > > maria luisa
    • Era
      ... Nina, you just made my day smiles
      Message 105 of 105 , Oct 5, 2003
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Nina" <murrkis@y...> wrote:
        > > > When the inspiration fails, it is no worse than
        > > > a sandcastle being washed away by the beach tide.
        > > > Tomorrow, I build another sandcastle.
        > > >
        > > > The thing is, I do know that at any time, I could
        > > > let go of the sandcastle building... but why?
        > > > Maybe you know why and would share the why...
        > >
        > > SG: one perhaps builds sandcastles until there is no longer
        > > an attachment to building and creating a structured form ......
        > > Inspirations may be wrapped up in sandcastles .....
        > >
        > > perhaps at that point one simply creates them out of the joy of
        > > the moment..... not expecting them to last but simply for the
        > > beauty and joy of spontaneous art and motion which flows from
        > > the Bliss of Being here now in this place in this moment .......
        > > it needs not carry behind it some representation or hidden
        > > meaning it simply is as it is Beautiful and sacred within it's own
        > > right.......
        > >
        > > then as in all things (this creation of the moment) simply falls
        > > away so that another image may take its place
        > >
        > > First one goes beyond the transient unfolding play before it is
        > > fully understood and appreciated for what it is ....... then one
        > > steps back into the lila and play simply Enjoying that lila as an
        > > expression of Infinite Love in motion........
        > > Formless or Form it is the same Essense
        > > minus the distinguishing factors .....
        >
        > > SG: hahahahaha perhaps so .... everything proceeds from
        > > Source and returns to Source in some manner......
        > >
        > >
        > > Infinite Love
        >
        > 1. There are pictures of this sandcastle building: faded square
        > photographs with radiused corners, the blues and greens and sand
        > colors of photographs from that time, the reds always slightly
        > pungent, as if the pigment were wired and erratic, unsure of its
        > place in the film. There we are, squatting in the sand: my blond-
        > haired mother, sitting aside, arm around the barrel-chest of the
        > small grey dog; my father and a very small I sitting together,
        > scraping sand into forms. What the photograph barely hints at is the
        > joy of building that sandcastle, part enjoyment of the sand and
        > water, part thrill and satisfaction of building it with my father.
        > What the photograph doesn't contain is what came later. After
        > building it, I felt so much happiness and pride; we played in the
        > water, and I kept looking back to see that sandcastle sitting before
        > the waves. Then the two boys came, stepping into the sandcastle,
        > crushing it. I cried salt tears to the sea, inconsolable, and unable
        > to explain or even understand that the greatest loss was not the
        > sandcastle, but what the sandcastle represented.
        >
        > 2. We like to go early to the beach, before the beach patrol comes on
        > line, and let our dogs run off leash. One morning, on the way back,
        > we are walking close to the dunes, past a sandcastle left above the
        > tide line. One of the dogs stalks the sandcastle, circling it,
        > sniffing it carefully, as if the castle might move. She notes the
        > hollow center of the castle, and daintily scratches it with one paw,
        > once, twice. Moving within the hollow, she begins to dig, throwing
        > large arcs of sand beneath and behind her, very efficiently deepening
        > the hollow. Sufficiently inspired, she leaps from the castle, and
        > runs circles on the beach. She is amazing, lean muscle and arching
        > back, her earth-pounding feet carrying her so close to us on her
        > returns that her breath is heard and wake is felt.
        >
        > 3. After the walk, I remain on the beach after the others return
        > home. The sun is coming up, pink and orange, and the sky is humid and
        > a thick blue-grey. The moon is still out, and a few stars, but are
        > gradually fading in a sky that is approaching their brilliance. I
        > stand within the laps of the waves, and look out to the rocking
        > shrimp boats, and the long, thin horizon beyond. With each receding
        > wave, the water draws sand from beneath the edges of my feet.
        > Eventually, I am balancing on two pyramids beneath my arches. I find
        > that if I am not perfectly balanced through the soles of my feet as
        > these pyramids form, that eventually I must cling to the tops of the
        > pyramids with the muscles of my legs, lest my feet slide from the
        > pyramids. I stand for a long while like this, trying on new pyramids,
        > learning as a matter of course what it is to be perfectly balanced
        > within my soles, and how transparent and effortless that feels,
        > watching the night suns recede as I am warmed by the heat advancing
        > in the eastern sky. At some point, the shrimp boats disappear, and I
        > take that as my cue to leave.
        >
        > Thanks for your letter, SG.
        >
        > Nina


        Nina, you just made my day

        smiles
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