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Re: false teaching about false gurus

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  • Jeff Belyea
    Leaving the Upthread for those who wish to go back and read the centuries old traditional teachings of some sects of the eastern religions. The teaching Karta
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 1, 2003
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      Leaving the Upthread for
      those who wish to go back
      and read the centuries old
      traditional teachings of
      some sects of the eastern
      religions.

      The teaching Karta posted
      speaks of the need for The
      Highest Creative Power,
      The Highest Divine Power
      to bestow role of master,
      teacher, guru.

      Then it goes on to say that
      the student cannot go
      beyond the level of his
      physical, living teacher.

      But ordination does not come
      from another physical teacher,
      nor need it be confirmed by
      another physical teacher.

      It is written on the tablets
      of our hearts. When our heart,
      4th chakra, pick-your-model,
      opens, when we remember our
      divinity, we merge with God,
      beyond the physical realm.

      An aspirant can recieve
      direct experiential knowledge
      of: our oneness with God, that
      there is nothing that is not
      God, that all is within God,
      an all-pervading, peaceful,
      Loving, illuminating God...

      The guru is a convenience and
      one honor, but only as is my
      own experience. The seeker is
      the one served by the master,
      and the only mission of the
      true master is to make another
      master.

      It is another form of manipulative,
      exclusive-club "priesthood" to
      say that another person, guru or
      not, is our only route to God
      and that we can go no higher
      than the one who pointed to
      the door.

      We have a direct route.

      Need a guru, do you?


      Jeff
    • kathy rabold
      Karta, Who are self-appointed masters ? Do you know who they are ? Who are the good ones ? Kathy satkartar7 wrote: Difference between a
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 1, 2003
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        Karta, Who are self-appointed masters ?  Do you know who they are ?
         
        Who are the good ones ?   Kathy

        satkartar7 <mi_nok@...> wrote:

        Difference between a true Master and a self-appointed Master

        Many claim to be Masters without possessing knowledge or experience
        from the Divine plane.
        There are today thousands of "Masters" in both the east and the west
        All these claim to be Masters themselves.

        Considered from the point
        of view of a true, genuine teacher, Master, the teaching of the self-
        appointed, physical "Masters" are directly or indirectly influenced
        by the negative sensory power.

        What is it then that these self-appointed teachers or Masters teach?

        On the surface they supply the same teaching, but deliver a
        different sort of doctrine, experience. They can lead or guide their
        disciples only to those areas within the astral world or the sensory
        dimensions which they have reached themselves. The message or the
        teaching is the same. With some training, anybody is capable of
        teaching without any problems whatsoever. But it is difficult to
        provide the practical demonstration and the first-hand information.

        This is only possible for him/her who has been appointed by the
        Highest Creative Power.

        What is the difference between a true, genuine, competent master and
        a so-called self-appointed master? There is a big difference! It is
        easy to ascend beyond the physical consciousness and concentrate on
        the area between the brows (the third eye, the seat of the soul).

        But it is very difficult to (completely) withdraw the consciousness
        from the body consciousness and reach beyond the astral and causal
        regions. In order to accomplish this, one has to be focused and
        constantly have his/her attention in the third eye. This is only
        possible with the help of the Highest Creative Power. A human being
        can never reach this on his own.

        Erroneous guidance of so-called self-appointed "masters".
        All impressions and experiences from previous lives (all karma), are
        gathered in a big reservoir in our unconscious mind. This works as
        an iron curtain hindering the soul or spirit in reaching its
        destination. Only the Highest Divine Power, the Word or Shabd (the
        sound within) can incinerate, eliminate karma and open the third eye
        so that the soul can pass beyond the darkness and experience the
        spiritual light. Since the so-called self-appointed "masters" are
        incapable of eliminating karma, the information they deliver at the
        time of initiation is connected to the sensory regions, and the
        message or knowledge coming from there is of solely negative
        character. This kind of energy and knowledge keeps one bound in the
        lower sensory regions and whatever experiences there are pure
        illusion.

        Even the five holy names, mantras or words, revealed by some self-
        appointed teacher or master not empowered by the Highest Divine
        Power, are without any value at all. He, who received the five
        mantras at his initiation by a self-appointed teacher, can only
        reach as far as the respective teacher had reached. If, for example,
        such a "master" has reached no further than the lower or
        intermediary regions of the astral plane, neither can his disciples.

        On this plane, the disciple may be able to perform many kinds of
        miracles and have fascinating experiences that make him believe that
        he is in constant progress, but in reality he is moving around
        within the same plane.

        The self-appointed masters existing today in the sensory world, make
        their disciples believe that the experiences they have on these
        sensory regions are in fact of spiritual nature. This is misleading
        for the disciples and keeps them bound in this region and to their
        ego. These astral experiences make on see different kinds of
        phenomenon as for example various landscapes, flowery fields,
        angels, buildings and various kinds of places, etc. The purpose of
        the five names (mantras) given at the time of initiation by a
        competent master living among us here and now, is to withdraw the
        soul from the sensory world and thereby enable the disciple to learn
        to control the sensory world instead of being controlled by it. The
        purpose of this is to enable the soul to free itself from the
        treadmill of birth and death and return to its original source - to
        the home of the soul - Sach Kand.

        Alexander J. Markus





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      • satkartar7
        ... hi, Kathy There is a great variety in the level of guruship. In the US the term is badly abused Almost every guru here in are teachers who know the books
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 1, 2003
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          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, kathy rabold <karatagi34677@y...> wrote:
          > Karta, Who are self-appointed masters ? Do you know who they are ?
          >
          > Who are the good ones ? Kathy
          >
          > satkartar7 <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Difference between a true Master and a self-appointed Master
          >
          > Many claim to be Masters without possessing knowledge or experience
          > from the Divine plane.
          > There are today thousands of "Masters" in both the east and the west
          > All these claim to be Masters themselves.
          >
          > Considered from the point
          > of view of a true, genuine teacher, Master, the teaching of the self-
          > appointed, physical "Masters" are directly or indirectly influenced
          > by the negative sensory power.
          >
          > What is it then that these self-appointed teachers or Masters teach?
          >
          > On the surface they supply the same teaching, but deliver a
          > different sort of doctrine, experience. They can lead or guide their
          > disciples only to those areas within the astral world or the sensory
          > dimensions which they have reached themselves. The message or the
          > teaching is the same. With some training, anybody is capable of
          > teaching without any problems whatsoever. But it is difficult to
          > provide the practical demonstration and the first-hand information.
          >
          > This is only possible for him/her who has been appointed by the
          > Highest Creative Power.
          >
          > What is the difference between a true, genuine, competent master and
          > a so-called self-appointed master? There is a big difference! It is
          > easy to ascend beyond the physical consciousness and concentrate on
          > the area between the brows (the third eye, the seat of the soul).
          >
          > But it is very difficult to (completely) withdraw the consciousness
          > from the body consciousness and reach beyond the astral and causal
          > regions. In order to accomplish this, one has to be focused and
          > constantly have his/her attention in the third eye. This is only
          > possible with the help of the Highest Creative Power. A human being
          > can never reach this on his own.
          >
          > Erroneous guidance of so-called self-appointed "masters".
          > All impressions and experiences from previous lives (all karma), are
          > gathered in a big reservoir in our unconscious mind. This works as
          > an iron curtain hindering the soul or spirit in reaching its
          > destination. Only the Highest Divine Power, the Word or Shabd (the
          > sound within) can incinerate, eliminate karma and open the third eye
          > so that the soul can pass beyond the darkness and experience the
          > spiritual light. Since the so-called self-appointed "masters" are
          > incapable of eliminating karma, the information they deliver at the
          > time of initiation is connected to the sensory regions, and the
          > message or knowledge coming from there is of solely negative
          > character. This kind of energy and knowledge keeps one bound in the
          > lower sensory regions and whatever experiences there are pure
          > illusion.
          >
          > Even the five holy names, mantras or words, revealed by some self-
          > appointed teacher or master not empowered by the Highest Divine
          > Power, are without any value at all. He, who received the five
          > mantras at his initiation by a self-appointed teacher, can only
          > reach as far as the respective teacher had reached. If, for example,
          > such a "master" has reached no further than the lower or
          > intermediary regions of the astral plane, neither can his disciples.
          >
          > On this plane, the disciple may be able to perform many kinds of
          > miracles and have fascinating experiences that make him believe that
          > he is in constant progress, but in reality he is moving around
          > within the same plane.
          >
          > The self-appointed masters existing today in the sensory world, make
          > their disciples believe that the experiences they have on these
          > sensory regions are in fact of spiritual nature. This is misleading
          > for the disciples and keeps them bound in this region and to their
          > ego. These astral experiences make on see different kinds of
          > phenomenon as for example various landscapes, flowery fields,
          > angels, buildings and various kinds of places, etc. The purpose of
          > the five names (mantras) given at the time of initiation by a
          > competent master living among us here and now, is to withdraw the
          > soul from the sensory world and thereby enable the disciple to learn
          > to control the sensory world instead of being controlled by it. The
          > purpose of this is to enable the soul to free itself from the
          > treadmill of birth and death and return to its original source - to
          > the home of the soul - Sach Kand.
          >
          > Alexander J. Markus
          >
          >


          hi, Kathy

          There is a great variety in the level
          of guruship. In the US the term is
          badly abused Almost every guru here
          in are teachers who know the books
          and can teach wisdom, or yoga, but that
          has nothing to do with guruship. A
          real guru preferably from a lineage
          receives the 'rod' [gaddi] from her/
          his guru and they are able, like John
          the Baptist connect one to the Divine

          It is a very sacred tradition, even
          Jesus HAD to be baptised

          Since a teenager I am seeking out
          gurus and can tell who has the rod and
          who doesn't

          I dunno how .. here are my gurus
          from them I received initiations
          among them there are only 2 real guru
          for me.

          From the Eck gurus I met: Darwin was
          very powrful and Harold Klemp is not..

          MataiJi is also a real guru, she would
          be the third one, but she is not at
          the level I like it.

          <http://santmat-meditation.net/1/gurus.html>
        • satkartar7
          ... yes mine too ... yes, all kinds of games are at play in the name of ego ... no thanks I had the best, but I am looking for a tennis coach ... John
          Message 4 of 5 , Sep 1, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            > Leaving the Upthread for
            > those who wish to go back
            > and read the centuries old
            > traditional teachings of
            > some sects of the eastern
            > religions.
            >
            > The teaching Karta posted
            > speaks of the need for The
            > Highest Creative Power,
            > The Highest Divine Power
            > to bestow role of master,
            > teacher, guru.
            >
            > Then it goes on to say that
            > the student cannot go
            > beyond the level of his
            > physical, living teacher.
            >
            > But ordination does not come
            > from another physical teacher,
            > nor need it be confirmed by
            > another physical teacher.
            >
            > It is written on the tablets
            > of our hearts. When our heart,
            > 4th chakra, pick-your-model,
            > opens, when we remember our
            > divinity, we merge with God,
            > beyond the physical realm.
            >
            > An aspirant can recieve
            > direct experiential knowledge
            > of: our oneness with God, that
            > there is nothing that is not
            > God, that all is within God,
            > an all-pervading, peaceful,
            > Loving, illuminating God...
            >
            > The guru is a convenience and
            > one honor, but only as is my
            > own experience.



            yes mine too



            > The seeker is
            > the one served by the master,
            > and the only mission of the
            > true master is to make another
            > master.
            >
            > It is another form of manipulative,
            > exclusive-club "priesthood" to
            > say that another person, guru or
            > not,



            yes, all kinds of games are at play
            in the name of ego


            > is our only route to God
            > and that we can go no higher
            > than the one who pointed to
            > the door.
            >
            > We have a direct route.
            >
            > Need a guru, do you?
            >



            no thanks I had the best, but I am
            looking for a tennis coach

            <grin>

            >
            > Jeff

            John the Baptist wasn't within the same
            Consciousness as Christ and he was
            needed, but please belive there is a
            wast, wast wast differnce between guru
            and the next one; like night and day

            of course there is a need and a market
            for teachers at all levels

            BUT THE WORD "GURU" SHOULD NOT
            BE USED IN VAIN!!!!!

            Karta
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