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Re: surrendering the ego

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  • maria luisa
    ... Self, ... the ... even ... of ... by ... consciousness of ... knows ... it ... identifies ... from ... released ... The ... is ... 2) ... tamas). ...
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 31, 2003
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "satkartar7"
      <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
      > > > Surrender of the ego...Bede Griffiths
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Ramanuja says that in pure knowledge there is no distinction
      > > between
      > > > the knowing subject and the known object. For the universal
      Self,
      > > > there is no distinction between the knower and the known. For
      the
      > > > individual Self, however, the 'I' or ego cannot be obliterated
      > > > without obliterating the essential nature of the Self. The
      > > > individual Self must have an I-consciousness which persists
      even
      > > in
      > > > the state of ultimate release. The 'I' or ego is not merely an
      > > > attribute of the individual Self, but constitutes the nature
      of
      > > the
      > > > individual Self. Thus, the I-consciousness is not obliterated
      by
      > > > knowledge of Brahman.
      > > >
      > > > The knowing subject is the 'I' or ego, which is a
      consciousness of
      > > > the inward Self. The 'I' or ego is a form of knowledge,
      > > constituting
      > > > the essential nature of the Self. Thus, the released Self
      knows
      > > the
      > > > essential nature of the inward Self.
      > > >
      > > > Atman may take three forms: 1) it may be bound to the material
      > > > world, 2) it may be released from the material world, and 3)
      it
      > > may
      > > > be eternal in its unity with Brahman. The bound Self
      identifies
      > > > itself with the material world. The released Self is freed
      from
      > > > attachment to the material world, and is aware of itself as a
      > > > spiritual reality. Release from samsara (cyclic, worldly
      > > existence)
      > > > is a state of non-difference from the highest Self. The
      released
      > > > Self is aware of the unity of Brahman.
      > > >
      > > > Ramanuja rejects the doctrine that the phenomenal world is
      > > illusory
      > > > and unreal. According to Ramanuja, the phenomenal world is not
      > > > unreal unless it is viewed as distinct from Brahman. The
      > > phenomenal
      > > > world is not simply a realm of false and illusory appearances.
      The
      > > > phenomenal world includes primordial matter (prakriti), which
      is
      > > > part of the body of Brahman.
      > > >
      > > > Prakriti has three qualities (or gunas): 1) clarity (sattva),
      2)
      > > > activity (passion, rajas), and 3) inactivity (darkness,
      tamas).
      > > > These gunas may interact to determine the nature of the
      material
      > > > world. Brahman is the inner Self or spirit (purusha) of
      prakriti.
      > > > Thus, reality is both material and spiritual. Spiritual
      reality
      > > may
      > > > transform material reality. Plurality is not unreal unless it
      is
      > > > seen as replacing the unity of Brahman.
      > > >
      > > > Ramanuja's Visishtadvaita Vedanta (or philosophy of qualified
      non-
      > > > dualism) has some important differences from Shankara's
      Advaita
      > > > Vedanta (or philosophy of non-dualism). For Shankara,
      > > > undifferentiated Brahman is ultimate realty. For Ramanuja,
      > > > differentiated Brahman is ultimate reality. For Shankara,
      > > > undifferentiated Brahman can be known and experienced
      intuitively.
      > > > For Ramanuja, Brahman can only be known through its
      attributes,
      > > and
      > > > since Brahman has attributes which can be known and
      experienced
      > > > intuitively, it must be differentiated.
      > > >
      > > > For Shankara, maya is an illusory appearance of reality,
      occurring
      > > > when the plurality of the phenomenal world is superimposed on
      the
      > > > unity of Brahman. For Ramanuja, however, maya is real and is
      the
      > > > plurality of attributes which are manifested by Brahman. Maya
      is
      > > the
      > > > way in which Brahman is manifested in the phenomenal world.
      > >
      > >
      > > When it is said that Maya is illusion, it is reffered to its
      > > temporary and impermanent characteristic, while Brahman is that
      > > which is eternal, unmoving and permanent. So illusion really
      reffers
      > > to a non-permanent state. Only to understand and accept that all
      > > that is born must die, all that is created will be destroyed,
      all
      > > that implies evolution will have involution, that the yin needs
      the
      > > yang, black needs white. Brahman needs nothing. Since Brahman is
      > > permanent and eternal, it is said that it's Real. The real
      source
      > > and substratum of manifestation called maya or illusion.
      Nothing
      > > wrong nor right with illusion or maya or body or mind. Only the
      > > points of view may keep man bounded or not. So it'a a matter of
      > > point of view (for the thinking mind).
      > >
      > > ml
      >
      >
      > yes, so true
      >
      > I wanted to post something within
      > our discussion about viewing the ego
      > in a forgiving light, since I can't
      > put into words what I know about
      > the subject as intelligent as you I
      > Cut & Pasted the Ramajuna interview..
      > I am not sure if it is from Ramana,
      > but this is not what I wanted to
      > highlight, so I'll come back dear
      > Maria Luisa
      >
      > love Karta

      You have just said it. Forgiveness. That is acceptance, a clear view
      of things as they are, an open mind, not bounded to preconceptions,
      to fear and doubt. Just things as they are. That's forgiveness. And
      not necessarily we need to put words on things, we don't need to
      understand via words. We can understand and see all as it is, just
      in silence, without naming and categoraizing. You have the word:
      forgiving light, very beautiful. Intelligence plays a little roll in
      this. The Heart knows better.

      Yours in the Heart,
      ml
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