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5641Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Any relevance here? Jeff

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  • Jason Fishman
    Apr 1, 2003
      --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
      > Dan -
      >
      > I'm assuming that you were not opposed
      > to having this posted and I therefore
      > consider if appropriate to respond to
      > your comments, on this site...

      J: Still enjoying assumptions, eh? I'm assuming your
      enjoying my inappropriateness.

      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
      > "judirhodes" <
      > judirhodes@z...> wrote:
      > > No, does this have any relevance - a repost from
      > the ranch list -
      > > from Dan -
      > >
      > >
      > > Not to mention the happy meditators who
      > > have to make sure you understand how realized
      > and in bliss
      > > they are, how deep from the silence they are
      > > speaking, how really truly real is their
      > realization --
      > > Just so you know that it's just like Ramana
      > said,
      > > and how amazing it is to realize that it's
      > > just like he said -- and if you don't get that,
      > > you are going to get the subtle love darts
      > > intended to bring you down some notches -- every
      > time.
      >
      > What you see as ego-centered peacocking,

      J: Personally I see me, like my feathers?

      > happy meditators see as offering of a lively hope,
      > and our purpose is to serve as witnesses to the
      > beautiful truth that the past and present awakened,
      > enlightened and realized teachers offer, as
      > encouragement to those "on the road".

      J: I'm not only on the road, I am the road. I don't
      only have hope, I am the hope. I hope to serve you
      better right now.

      > The "love darts" are provoked by the
      > attributions that you, Judi and Jason post about
      > many of us happy meditators: accusations of fraud,
      > delusion, deceit and the litany of negativity
      > that comes from little or no direct contact with
      > those at whom you fire your own darts.

      J: I accuse myself of fraud, I'm so fraudulent that
      I've deluded myself so long to believing I was. I keep
      throwing these dart and OUCH!

      > It seems to me that you have no understanding of
      > what
      > motivates a happy meditator. The return darts are
      > intended to counter false accusations and
      > attributions
      > that seem to me to be attempts to undermine the
      > veracity and purpose of the happy meditators'
      > offering,
      > and which potentially discourage those who seek
      > to find ways past the stress and discouragement
      > in their lives. Happy meditators offer reports
      > of rewards they found on the road they traveled.
      > And that is what we defend.

      J: Thats the key, I suppose. I do understand what
      motivates the happy motivator, you just don't care for
      it. Thats ok neither do I.

      > > Confronting people about self-satisfaction and
      > > smug bullshit is a losing proposition -- they
      > > will keep on with what keeps them feeling good
      > > about themselves, and stick it to ya in return
      > --
      > > every time.
      >
      > What you see as self-satisfaction and smug bullshit,
      > happy meditators see as gratitude and an eagerness
      > to share the bounty of the treasure they have found
      > with all who ask about it.

      J: Yes, self-satisfaction thats it! Here have the
      treasure, it's to heavy for me to carry.

      > >
      > > It's remarkable how the same ploy gets played
      > again
      > > and again and again ...
      > >
      > > That's all selves are is these ploys, so that's
      > the last thing
      > > anyone is going to look into.
      > >
      > > The spiritual ploys somehow seem the worst of all,
      > as
      > > bad as all the other ploys can be. There is
      > something
      > > particularly nasty, vicious, and self-serving
      > about
      > > the spiritualized self-ploys. I think it's
      > because
      > > all the knives have to be covered up with lots
      > > of gooey love and wisdom.
      >
      > What you see as nasty, vicious and self-serving,
      > happy
      > meditators see as selfness, loving, kind and caring
      > service
      > to other people. Love and wisdom are not derisive or
      > threatening terms
      > to happy meditators.

      J: I'm threatened by that! I think. Here have some
      Love and Wisdom, thats to heavy too.

      > >
      > > A favorite seems to be:
      > > It's fine with me to lose my self as long as I
      > can
      > > tell everyone how deep from silence I'm
      > speaking, or
      > > the amazing love bliss I now have, and we get
      > > to smugly congratulate and reinforce one another
      > --
      > > and so on.
      >
      > What you see as self-aggrandizement, happy
      > meditators
      > see as witnessing to the reality of a way of escape
      > from
      > stress and confusion, which they speak to from
      > experiential
      > knowledge. What you see as smug congratulations,
      > happy
      > meditators see as positive and faith-building
      > affirmations.
      > The view is toward those seeking a way out. To tell
      > them
      > they are already out leaves the vast majority in
      > despair
      > when what they hear from the advaita view is "this
      > is all
      > there is, live with it." Happy meditators offer real
      > world
      > efforts that precede grace.

      J: Yes, I'm happy you see ALL that way too!

      > > But to look into that "act" and see that it's just
      > > another version of self -- that would be to
      > suffer
      > > a real loss ...
      > >
      > > And that's the last thing any of these
      > self-proclaimed
      > > realizers living in contentment and bliss want
      > ...
      > >
      > > The claim of a loss that made me a special
      > realizer
      > > living deep in silent bliss love
      > > is so much easier to deal with,
      > > and then I get to keep the suffering and call
      > > it blissful silence ... what could be better?
      >
      > What you see as us happy meditators feeling like we
      > are "special realizers", is us happy meditators
      > jumping for joy for us anything-but-special people
      > having received a beautiful gift that ends the
      > suffering - mountains of suffering made into mole
      > hills, dust in the wind.
      >
      > Suffering succotash! Is that all you eat? Don't you
      > ever have a gooey dessert and get past all your
      > suffering?
      >
      > All the love,
      >
      > Jeff

      J: I am passed all my suffering, since I am suffering
      right now. I'm passed all my happiness, since I'm
      happy right now. The rest they say, is you, me and
      history make three.

      Peace and Love

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