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17032Re: Enlightenment Realities

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  • medit8ionsociety
    Feb 27, 2010
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      Yo Papajeff,
      Thanks, but I'm all for clarifications of the words
      of the Saints. Every religion has a tradition of
      expounding on what wisdom has been shared by their
      Gods or holiest people. And I certainly feel it's a
      "good thing" when someone helps point out a position
      that lets us gain greater understanding about such an
      esoteric subject as non-duality, or whatever we label
      Sri Ramana's thoughts (and non-thoughts). Matter of
      fact, you (your Self) do this kind of thing superbly!
      Peace and blessings,
      Bob

      "Papajeff" <jeff@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks, Bob.
      >
      > The red flag of ego (mind's)
      > presence wil be obvious in
      > one's attempt to say what
      > Ramana said, "only better".
      >
      > It is very comforting that
      > you let the words of Bhagavan
      > speak for themselves without
      > feeling the need to add
      > "your" elucidation.
      >
      > A silent namaste,
      >
      > Jeff
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Question : Can the meditator be affected by
      > > physical disturbances during nirvikalpa samadhi?
      > > My friend and I disagree on this point.
      > > Ramana Maharshi : Both of you are right. One of
      > > you is referring to kevala and the other to sahaja
      > > samadhi. In both cases the mind is immersed in
      > > the bliss of the Self. In the former, physical
      > > movements may cause disturbance to the meditator,
      > > because the mind has not completely died out.
      > > It is still alive and can, as after deep sleep,
      > > at any moment be active again.
      > >
      > > It is compared to a bucket, which, although
      > > completely submerged under water, can be pulled
      > > out by a rope which is still attached to it. In
      > > sahaja, the mind has sunk completely into the
      > > Self, like the bucket which has got drowned in
      > > the depths of the well along with its rope. In
      > > sahaja there is nothing left to be disturbed or
      > > pulled back to the world. One's activities then
      > > resemble that of the child who sucks its mother's
      > > milk in sleep, and is hardly aware of the feeding.
      > >
      > > Question : How can one function in the world
      > > in such a state?
      > > Ramana Maharshi : One who accustoms himself
      > > naturally to meditation and enjoys the bliss
      > > of meditation will not lose his samadhi state
      > > whatever external work he does, whatever thoughts
      > > may come to him. That is sahaja nirvikalpa. Sahaja
      > > nirvikalpa is nasa [total destruction of the mind]
      > > whereas kevala nirvikalpa is laya [temporary
      > > abeyance of the mind].
      > >
      > > Those who are in the laya samadhi state will
      > > have to bring the mind back under control from
      > > time to time. If the mind is destroyed, as it
      > > is in sahaja samadhi, it will never sprout again.
      > > Whatever is done by such people is just incidental,
      > > they will never slide down from their high state.
      > >
      > > Those that are in the kevala nirvikalpa state
      > > are not realized, they are still seekers. Those
      > > who are in the sahaja nirvikalpa state are like
      > > a light in a windless place, or the ocean without
      > > waves; that is, there is no movement in them. They
      > > cannot find anything which is different from
      > > themselves. For those who do not reach that state,
      > > everything appears to be different from themselves.
      > >
      > > Question : Is the experience of kevala nirvikalpa
      > > the same as that of sahaja, although one comes down
      > > from it to the relative world?
      > > Ramana Maharshi : There is neither coming down nor
      > > going up - he who goes up and down is not real. In
      > > kevala nirvikalpa there is the mental bucket still
      > > in existence under the water, and it can be pulled
      > > out at any moment. Sahaja is like the river that
      > > has linked up with the ocean from which there is
      > > no return. Why do you ask all these questions? Go
      > > on practicing till you have the experience yourself.
      > >
      >
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