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17025Re: Enlightenment Myths

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  • westwindwood2003
    Feb 24, 2010
      Comments on your comments, see below:

      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" <faithearden@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Hi Jeff.
      >
      > Thank you for this post. I now add a little of my own nonsense to what
      > you offer.
      >
      >
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Papajeff" <jeff@>
      > wrote:
      > <snip>
      >
      >
      > > Response to Myth #1: If
      > > you kill the ego, you have
      > > no self to enjoy the Realized
      > > Self in the material world.
      > > The ego must be silenced and
      > > sent to a corner for a time
      > > out, but enlightenment brings
      > > the ego instant relief of not
      > > having to be "on" 24/7 and
      > > presents the startled ego with
      > > a new playmate - a new Captain
      > > of The Ship (of consciousness) -
      > > who dispels the ego's fear
      > > and doubt...and as they say
      > > in advertising - much, much more.
      > >
      > > But the ego lives on as a
      > > tenured resident of this
      > > temporal life. And some would
      > > say, plots mutiny once again,
      > > after a while. Meditation can
      > > be a good crimestopper. But
      > > that's another story.
      > >
      >
      > Faithe:
      >
      > To attempt to kill or not to kill the ego...is there any difference
      > here?
      >

      My experience is if you try to kill the ego, it just pops up more strongly, but if one goes with not trying to kill the ego then suffering continues.

      >
      > > Response to Myth #2: The is
      > > trickier. It is a matter of
      > > timing. All 'teachers' who
      > > parrot the "You must not seek"
      > > admonishment eventually, if they
      > > go on long enough, replace
      > > the word seek with a synonym
      > > of some sort (like: inquire,
      > > for instance). And their personal
      > > stories ALWAYS have some reference
      > > to seeking (a rose by any other
      > > name). It is true that absolute
      > > surrender opens the door, but...
      > >
      > > seeking ALWAYS precedes the
      > > point of surrender. We don't
      > > need anything else to perpetuate
      > > the feeling of separation - we
      > > were already socially coerced
      > > into it before any thought of
      > > seeking occurred to us. And
      > > we don't come to feel the intuitive
      > > stirring at some point in our
      > > lives, and immediately flop down
      > > in complete and absolute surrender.
      > >
      > > It is only after a time of seeking,
      > > listening, reading, questioning,
      > > sitting in meditation, sitting
      > > in satsang, pleading for
      > > deliverance from despair and such
      > > (and for some, this goes on for
      > > a very long time - and for
      > > others, no time is long enough
      > > in their present lifetime) that
      > > the seeking gives way to utter
      > > surrender - and with grace,
      > > enlightenment.
      > >
      > > Effort precedes grace.
      >
      > Faithe:
      >
      > Is there any difference between the "teacher" and the "seeker". Is not
      > the "teacher" just another person that is seeking to change another
      > whether it be through repeating "lofty messages with hidden meaning" or
      > encouragement through offering comforting words to make one feel good
      > themselves?
      >
      > Could it be that the "teacher" is actually the "ultimate seeker" -
      > seeking others in order to keep their own beliefs afloat within
      > themselves?
      >

      My experience from the 1970s was the seekers were more evolved than the teachers. The teachers were in it for the power and money. However, I did find one teacher after I had meditated for 45 minutes per day on average for twenty-two years who had some real guidance for me at a crucial time.

      >
      > >
      > > Response to Myth #3: Much like
      > > Myth #2, all professed 'teachers'
      > > who parrot the "We're already
      > > all enlightened" line eventually,
      > > if they are authentically (or
      > > poetically) enlightened, and
      > > go on long enough, relate
      > > personal stories that ALWAYS
      > > have some reference to their
      > > awakening/realization/shift
      > > in perspective, ...
      > >
      > > at a specific point in time.
      > > Otherwise, they wouldn't have
      > > anything to say - negation or
      > > propagation - about enlightenment.
      > >
      > > To parrot this,"We're
      > > already all enlightened," pat
      > > phrase is to discourage the
      > > sincere seeker (who must one
      > > day surrender utterly if they
      > > ever hope to experience
      > > enlightenment).
      > >
      > > My 3-Myths worth.
      > >
      > > Jeff
      >
      > Faithe:
      >
      > Is there is any purpose to having or not having this "enlightenment"?
      > Does it really, really make any difference? Is there any difference in
      > this concept of enlightenment or for instance reading a great novel and
      > feeling sooooooooo good afterwards...even if just for a fraction of
      > time? At least one can clearly remember the novel!!!
      >
      > It amazes me what the human mind can conjure up to make itself feel like
      > there is some great spiritual achievement to attain. It's similar to
      > dying...as I approach (in fact if I take a hard, cold analytical look,
      > realize I am not approaching but am in it) my elderly years and look
      > back on my life, I ponder upon the "worth" of my life. I worked hard,
      > have a family, garden, repair my home, have my animals. played with
      > religion, spirituality, non-duality (which is just another fancy name
      > for religion), yoga, sports, meditation...and now, so what? Would I
      > change any of it? Nope, not one bit. I have tasted this mundane life. I
      > have learned much. The most important thing learned is that no one has
      > the answers to "all that IS", and I best spend what little time I have
      > left working on understanding more on the mundane and less on the
      > spiritual to which one can only imagine answers, answers depending on
      > the current status of the mundane life surrounding one.
      >
      > Imagine what could be accomplished on the mundane level if the illusive
      > spiritual could be understand for what it is.

      Well, the vast majority of people in India would agree with you completely, that the spiritual path is not for them, too hard to do at this time so why bother even thinking about it. Perhaps some other life time, maybe. This path is not something I can recommend to anyone, friend or foe. For me though, it is the most important thing in my life by far, the whole 40 years starting since I was 30. You are content so stay the course.

      >
      > Thanks again, Jeff.
      >
      > Faithe
      >
      >
      > PS: Hello Bob, it has been a LONG, LONG time! Glad to see you are OK
      > and that this meditation work project of yours receives such high
      > acclaim.
      >
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