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16998Re: Cause and Effect and On-line Strategies

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  • cosmic_yogi1
    Feb 17, 2010
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      Brother Sandeep!

      Your piercing insight is truly appreci-Loved:-) Thank you for sharing.

      Hanif

      ONE, or ZERO;-)



      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sandeep <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Bob,
      >
      >
      >
      > medit8ionsociety wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Carl Sagan once said that to really find
      > > the cause of any effect you have to go back
      > > to the Big Bang and work from there.
      > >
      >
      >
      > Why even stop at that minor event?
      >
      > :-)
      >
      > Much though it may seem like..........there is no linear cause-effect
      > continuum.
      >
      >
      >
      > > In a
      > > universe that's characterized by adjectives
      > > and adverbs like "Chaos", it's interesting
      > > that things pop up exactly when they would
      > > fit in.
      > >
      >
      >
      > Exactly.
      >
      > Including the arising thought which may of the nature of bewilderment,
      > anger, agony............as to how can this "pop up" be seen to be a fit...
      > .. from any perspective.
      >
      > Aka, earthquakes, tsunamis, innocents getting blown apart in the name of
      > Allah or democracy.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > > Right after reading Papajeff and
      > > Sandeep, both of whom I respect and think
      > > are wiser than the average bear, I found this
      > > site that deals with strategies that are used
      > > in on-line arguments.
      > > http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70321
      > > <http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70321>
      > >
      >
      >
      > LOL
      >
      > Very good.
      >
      > Being on the cyber circuit from the early 80s.....have seen all these
      > variations.
      >
      >
      >
      > > I hope you enjoy what is shareed there even if it
      > > doesn't exactly fit with what has been going on
      > > in these recent posts. In the case of the last few
      > > posts here, I want to say that when I read Sandeep,
      > > my mind's chatter often stops and that opens the
      > > "doors of perception", and since Swami Chidananda's
      > > recent death, I think Sandeep may be the most conscious
      > > person in India.
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > Hey, the geographical spread of that endorsement is too small.
      >
      > Bob, how do you expect me to expand the business, in face of competition ?
      >
      > Be a little more generous, a bit more expansive, will ya!.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Coming back to the subject of effortless effort.
      >
      > In fact, every effort is effortless.
      >
      > Not that reaching an enlightened state makes subsequent efforting as
      > effortless.
      >
      > Effortless effort is already the case.
      >
      > What would effortfull effort be?
      >
      > It would be the enacting of actions, accompanied by a sense of ownership
      > of the action, which as a package deal comes with the sense of stake
      > with the unfolding actions.
      >
      > Doing......... with the accompanying halo of "I am the one doing such
      > and such and I am the one who hopes that such and such will get me, the
      > other,
      > society, community, nation, humanity at large, such and such".
      >
      > The halo is all mentation.
      >
      > The presence or absence of the halo of mentation.........does not in any
      > way effect the nature or content of the moment, which unfolds exactly as
      > it did as the moment.
      >
      > (A delving would apperceive that even the physical act as the content of
      > the moment.... is a wiggle in the field of mentation, but let's leave
      > that for the moment)
      >
      >
      > So this state of effortless effort( to use some terms for this
      > communication)........can it ever be reached, attained, realized, achieved?
      >
      > What is not-the-case.......can be made to be the case.
      >
      > Which obviously needs something to be done by some one.
      >
      > What is already the case........how can it be made to be the case again?
      >
      >
      >
      > Now, espying these pixels.....thought immediately comes up......
      >
      > "-that's all neo-advaita bullshit, did not such and such (put in any of
      > your favourite saint sage).....toil for decades, even several past
      > lifetimes...........to reach salvation, enlightenment.
      >
      > -"When nothing in life, ie.fame, fortune, sex, power can be got without
      > rowing your boat......how can the biggest mazumma be achieved just by
      > sitting on your back-side".
      >
      > Thought may even construct..
      >
      > "- How can such nonsense be allowed to be espoused when I through such
      > exacting and arduous rock climbing have reached the pinnacle of
      > spirituality"
      >
      > "-What would I be left with........if all that I have done and achieved
      > in the field of spirituality be debunked.....
      >
      > ....what would I be.....if ......it is all fluff?".
      >
      >
      >
      > In reverse thought may even construct
      >
      > " That is why effort is the very obstruction to realization,
      > enlightenment and must be totally shunned.
      > I must hunt down all these doers and negate them on every spiritual
      > lists on cyber space, as well as all physical satsanghs."
      >
      >
      > Both schools of thought.........are actually the same.
      >
      > What is the difference between believing that something is necessary,
      > that something is the causal requirement for what-is-already-the-case to
      > be reached.......
      >
      > ......and .....
      >
      > ..... believing that nothing has to be done........ as the causal
      > requirement...... for what-is-already-the-case to be reached.
      >
      > No difference whatsoever.
      >
      >
      > Which is why............if a specific technique is getting enacted which
      > is held to be meditation, bhakti-japa, self-enquiry........coming across
      > a spectacle of need, anguish, suffering and getting moved to do whatever
      > one did in that moment to assuage the spectacle......(whether succeeded
      > or not)
      >
      > .......in each of these instances.........the apperceiving is
      > that...........each of the instance was a natural nuance of the
      > moment.....an unfolding play of totality as that very specific act of a
      > multi-act drama......
      >
      > a drama .....which is nothing but a display of what would be it be like,
      > if for example .....meditation, bhakti-japa, self-enquiry, empathy.....
      >
      > ...was ever possible to be.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Similarly, the absence of any of these facets of
      > phenomenality........are as much .........a natural nuance of the
      > moment.....as much as acts
      > of the same multi-act drama.
      >
      >
      >
      > Now what is to be pursued, craved, intended, affirmed?
      >
      > What is to be shunned, avoided, negated?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > The instance....... no matter what it's content.......... is not a means
      > to another instance.
      >
      > The instance........ no matter what its content........ is not an
      > obstruction to another instance
      >
      > For no instance has a relation with another instance.
      >
      > Why not?
      >
      > Because each instance, irrespective of the content of that
      > instance.........is complete in itself.
      >
      >
      > There is no pop-up needing to fit into frame.
      >
      > The pop-up IS the frame.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > In this light of apperception(again a mere term)............where there
      > is no surrounding halo of intentions, will, stakes, hopes.....
      >
      > the apperception that ....the halo IS the very unfolding meditation, if so.
      >
      > the apperception that .....the halo IS the very unfolding of empathy, if so.
      >
      > The apperception that....the halo IS the very unfolding absence of any
      > such activities, if such is the case.
      >
      >
      >
      > The apperception that the pervading stillness..........is not an effect
      > of what is unfolding................whether the unfolding happens in the
      > dirt of the gutter
      >
      > or in the pristinity of cathedral towers.
      >
      >
      >
      > The light of this apperception .........consumes( to use a
      > term).......all "other" instances......... both the recalled and the
      > projected.
      >
      >
      > The consumption of the recall and the projected .............is the
      > consumption of even this instance.
      >
      >
      >
      > And the apperception that the Big Bang ...
      >
      >
      > ..a mere infantile wiggle....
      >
      > .....to display what would it be like...... IF...... something could
      > ever be on display.
      >
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