15377Re: [Meditation Society of America] Thoughts on individuality
- Jun 3, 2007Sandeep Thank you for that. If I put something out there I fully expect it to be chalenged. And for that I am greatfull, with Ideas come and go and without chalenging them they hold no experencial value. I can only bang these thoughts off of the guys on the docks so much before they get tired of that kind of banter. I think there is in me a certain "cling-ing" to a sense of self. But I also think there is a degree of something that I am failing to find words for. I have found meditation and yoga to be very grounding tools these help wash away the morgage bills and traffic and free me up for the direct experience of those things and people that I find value in. Striping away my own negitivity alows me to fully appreiciate the moment. I think thats the thing I refer to remembering or appreciating in children when the world was new to us and we expreienced it as it was without putting values to it. The mechanics of what is real and what is not real I believe are unimportant(At least for me right now) What is important (at least to me at this moment) is awakening to my here and now, and a bit of indugence for th ID because in this point and time this is the only reality I know. So we go, weather we believe this is al a dream or not we think, feel ,love and other stuff day in day out and sure the scene changes, rapidly in some cases slowly in other something familar remains and others fade into memory.Humanity is the creator beast, the animal that conjures into being things that before did not exist, such as great works of art, music, dinner a house you name it we do this daily with the cooperation of others. This ability is what I refer to as our great redeming quality and it starts with our imagination, first we dream it then we build it, the dark side of this is that with this same imagination we can create false negative realities for ourselves and get stuck in them, first we dream it then we build it. and that I guess is what I would like to guard myself against I sometimes use a long run to do this, or Ashtanga as I have recently discovered(thanks to my wife)I have created many things butI didnt create the finches in my back yardI didnt create the works of Charlie ParkerI didnt create Boston cream pieI didnt create Triumph motocyclesI didnt create the strange creatuers I've seen at the bottom of the seaI didnt create you guys or this forumBut I'm glad your all here and I'm thankfull to you for taking the time to entertain these leter and thank you for your insights and wisedompardon the typo's
Sandeep <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
Some musings..... ...
Each object...... .... apparently discrete, ..........each object with varying attributes including the attribute of sentience(with the object popularly known as "humans" having the most) ...........making up this phenomenality in which you are reading some squiggles on a PC screen...... .
.....is an expression.. ..ing.
Expression.. .ing because there is nothing static about any object.
Whether that object is a stone lying still for a million years or that youngest son thinking out of the box in elementary school.
Each expression.. .ing is uniquely crafted and is getting expressed uniquely.... ......... with each expressioning existing only as reflection in the other.
And through "expression. ..ing"... ......... are further expressionings getting expressed... ......... as thoughts.... .....as a choosing among thoughts to arrive at
what is felt as MY DECISION.... .
.....the external actualization of that decision as a physical action, through the physio-neurological -spatial complex..... ..
....and the further invoked reaction/response/ consequence of that occurring physical action.
Moment to moment to moment, through the infinite array of objects..... this mosaic of expressionings. ....lo behold the drama of infinite hues, colours and nuances.
Indeed, decisions are getting taken, intentions are arising and some of them getting intended, some withering away........ . will is being exercised in the form of an exercising of choice of this and not that....
.....the successful/not- successful actualization of this will, intention, decision.... ... each as as "events", as "happenings" ........making up the woof and warp of the fabric of phenomenality.
And in this whole drama made up of infinite "happenings" ......... ..there is no "individuated- discrete- stand alone" entity making/enabling/ abetting any of these "happenings" .
Whether that "happening" is a thought of having a cup of tea instead of a tequila shot, ............ sitting in zazen or in the frenzy of a stock market .......
.......OR even the thought as a reaction.... ......that this no-self-proposition is a whole lot of hogwash, a mere justification to rationalize the "bad/evil/wrong doing" that dots the world.
The acceptance of something, anything ...........OR the opposition/rejectio n of that something, anything.... ......is once again a mere nuance of the movement of the moment.
So what is this self, the "me", the "individual" , the ego, the mind.
It is a sense.
A sense arising out of a sense of forgetfulness, resulting in a identification with a particular, which results in a sense of separation.
And consequences of this sense of separation are the feelings of ownership (MY out-of-box thinking son), which has to invoke the need to defend that ownership, whether that be "MY" beloved offspring or "MY" conclusions, "MY" understandings, "MY" book, "MY" truth....... .. et al.
How does forgetfulness come into the equation and create "MY" world, which appears so compelling real, in which I-Sean have so much stake.
An anecdote.... ..
There was a farmer and his wife who were childless, for decades.
After years, they have a son, who grows up to be a handsome lad, a paragon of virtue, of loving nature...... ......the pride of not just his parents but of the entire village.
One day the son falls sick and his health starts deteriorating.
No medical treatment is able to address the illness and after spending a fortune on treating his son's illness, the father and mother are told that nothing can be done and the son has few hours to live.
Weeping for the impending demise of his only beloved son.......in sheer exhaustion the father dozes off.
And after some time is woken by the loud cries of his wife who wails that their beloved son is dead.
The father remains silent.
And for hours, while working out the modalities of the funeral..... .....there appears to be no visible sign of grief on the father's face or behaviour.
The son's mother berates her husband on this lack of grief for the death of their only son.
The farmer responds" While I had dozed off, I dreamt I was the king, with a huge kingdom.
I had 7 sons, each sturdy and handsome, each so capable, so lovingly helping me discharge my duties in running the kingdom.
There was so much joy, so much richness in my life."
The son's mother scornfully asks "So what has that stupid dream to do with anything now?"
The farmer responds " I am wondering, whose death should I mourn?
Of this boy or of those 7 boys?"
Nothing, absolutely nothing of this waking dream world has an existential meaning, in the dream-world of your last night sleep.
The beloved relationships, the not-so beloved relationships, the joys, the griefs, the achievements, the successes, the failures, the understandings, spiritual or otherwise, the sufferings, pain, hurts....... ...in a blip they get erased.
And re-appears on waking from the last night sleep....... ......(which is believed to be the same as before, but is not)
And nothing, absolutely nothing of that dream-world of last night sleep (which was so compelling real) has any existential meaning in this waking dream world.
And nothing, absolutely nothing of either of these 2 dream worlds...... ....has an existential meaning in the state of deep sleep.
That which appears and disappears in time........ ...can only be akin to the eddies in the water.
Not the water.
That there is no "individuated- discrete- stand alone" entity making/enabling/ abetting any of these "happenings" ......... ..gets revealed through a very simple
If there is an interest.... .....this unraveling is detailed in the Covenant site.
Now the "clever mind" will immediately jump up and state if there is no "individuated- discrete- stand alone" entity/me/self. ......... ....who is do this unraveling.
In that "clever" question is the same paradigm at work........ ......that there is something/some one to do ............ ..OR..... ....... not to do.
If the unraveling happens as an expressioning through an expressioning popularly known as "Sean"...... .......it will be a nuance of the Totality ...as the happening of that moment.
If not, ..........that non-happening as an expressioning through an expressioning popularly known as "Sean"...... ..
....that too will be a nuance of the Totality ...as the happening of that moment.
Doooo Beeee Dooo Beeeeee Doooooo
sean tremblay wrote:_,_._,___Greetings all!, I was just pondering some of the thoughts I have read and written on Ideas of the self and I seem to have been railing heavely in favor of the individual will. I would like to give a little more of where I'm coming from on this. There are many Ideas of what the mind is and what the self is. Some would say it is a collection of memories stored by an organ bio chemical in nature and based on biochemical responses to stimulas, I can't argue with that but Jeeeeez thats cold. Others would say it is the acumulation of past karma, again I can't argue with but it's the metaphysical equivalent of the first option. Being a person of realitive reason I base as most do my opinions on a combination of experience, observation and good old fashioned gut feeling. As a father I have had the wonderfull experience of observing my kids grow and develope and from the moment they were born they have had something uniquely there own, a light inside them so precious and unlike any other. This is the thing they came here with and it grows with them, it tells jokes and plays pranks, its the thing that drives them to climb trees explore a new creek or just sit for an hour watching birds in the feeder in the back yard. Everyone of us has this light this thing inside us that makes us so unique and individual this is the thing that lends so much flavor to our daily lives. I cant begin to acount for all the people I have met that have left something with me some experience a piece of there light I've met them in bus stations, city streets, on trains and back ally's like one young girl bare foot in a tank top and boxer shorts I met her while riding my motorcycle down a back country road, she showed me which plants I need to pick to polish the chrome on my bike. That thing that eassence of being in humanity is our redeaming quality and if fully realized and expressed it can be the thing that saves us from ruin. It's not to find or even awaken I supose it's to be remembered. It's the person you where before expectations and pain and diapointment set in when the demands of life made you shut off that piece of you. I must say though that boddisattvas walk amoungst us on the streets and in our children. I was called in to the elementary school one day because my youngest son was having difficulty, the teacher told me that he thought outside the box and danced to the tune of his own drummer, well with great pride I said Ma'am he's a seven year old little boy.
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