15187Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Meditation Advice
- Jan 26, 2007Could you please make an effort to stop saying stuff like....We Americans or
.....I'm a typical American or........in America we do this or that. There
are other people on the planet besides you lot, doncha know? When I lived in
America I got so tired of all that crap.
We in England or France or Ireland do not constantly refer to the human
race as us Frenchies or we English or Irish. Think about it and stop
irritating the rest of us. It is bad enough that you Americans cause more
wars and kill more of us and pollute more than the rest of us without you
constantly speaking as if there is nobody else on this planet that matters.
>From: Marc Moss <jellybean0729@...>_________________________________________________________________
>Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Meditation Advice
>Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:35:27 -0800 (PST)
> I am sorry that you have your disagreements, and that is to be
>understood. Those that follow what is written on ink and utilize everyday
>beta/alpha wave mental processes simply come to more imaginary conclusions,
>regardless of how strong and logical they are.
> Up to this point, I would make the assumption that you have been reading
>and studying the teachings from the First Turning of the Wheel. This is
>good. This will develop a very clear and understandable idea of what a self
>nature is. Without a picture of self-existence, we cannot come to
>understand what the absence of that is when we read the Heart Sutra.
> And with this, I don't know how much more I can offer because I sense
>that you do not believe in past life. That is fine. It is good to have a
>definite practice for developing your heart and mind, building compassion
>and wisdom. But, I would say that you should read Master Dignaga's
>teachings and proofs of past life and then meditate on this deeply (Pramana
>Samuchaya) or Master Dharmakirti's Pramanavartika. With a Master to guide
>you through these teachings, you can come to deep understandings that this
>life that we believe is it is simply a reflection of the enfolded univeral
>nature of our deepest consciousness reasserting itself with these
>perceptions of us and now.
> The most difficult part of our practice is understanding what is
>meditation. To just sit and have no thoughts whatsoever is a good practice,
>but it is not the ends...just a means. Emptiness is not just some big
>blank, some big nothing. It is an adjective, a negative of the positive.
>The result of meditation is to remove the idea that the disparity of
>subject and object exists, and this is true because one has removed that
>form of delusion in samadhi.
> There are nine levels to meditation in the "desire realm", meaning that
>you go through nine different states or degrees of keeping the mind fixed
>on an object. The ninth level is deep meditation, where distraction is
>completely removed. Only after developing this deep samadhi can one begin
>to experience form realm meditation. And it is only in this level can one
>see emptiness directly. If one has not yet had this experience, then one's
>speculations of emptiness are merely that. One cannot corroborate the
>Buddha's teachings for themselves, they cannot understand all the
> In our skeptical and unbelieving world, we scoff at the idea of
>omniscience, though science is beginning to understand that this is a
>possibility. For our normal everyday thinking, we do not believe if we do
>not see. That is exactly correct. So, it is preferable to accept the word
>of an authority, one that we believe cannot lie. And for Mahayana
>practitioners, we do not believe that the Buddha can lie. His teachings on
>karma show how one's mental obscurations will not be totally removed when
>commiting acts such as these that would plant more bakchak (mental seeds,
>if you will) into the continuum, only to ripen as a negative result. So, we
>accept the Buddha's words and take them into our practice until we develop
>deep realizations and direct experiences with them.
> Typically, Americans new to the practice of buddhism get
>misunderstandings and create confusion for themselves by jumping to
>conclusions because the teachings do not always accord to our version of
>reality. But, if our version of reality was correct in the first place, why
>seek buddhism for answers to questions that could not have formed?
> Philosophers and Buddhologists in America compare historical situations
>and primary source material to come to the conclusions that these things
>developed because so and so changed this, or so and so influenced that. But
>even within the Buddha's own teaching career we see three distinct
>episodes, and most believe that only one of them could have been correct
>because of the apparent contradictions. But think about the fact that we do
>not send senior class teachings into kindergarten. The mind must be
>cultivated and developed. And when you look at the entire scope of the
>teachings throughout the career of Lord Buddha, you see how he ripens the
>minds of the students. But, during this career we also see that he told his
>disciples that some of the deepest teachings of emptiness he just cannot
>publicly render and prophesied that Nagarjuna would come and expound upon
>it during a time when disciples minds were more developed.
> After studying the Pramanavartika by Master Dharmakirti, one comes
>closer to understanding how the mind works in a deep way. The differences
>between mental images in general and specific...this could be a long
>letter, so I'll leave it there. The Pramanavartika is to deep to just grab
>off the shelf and try to understand. So much of it requires a commentary,
>and a teacher to teach the commentary as well. Suffice it to say, that the
>biggest problem with Buddhism in America is that there are more "I think
>it's like this" people than true and qualified teachers. Without the
>blessings of the organic, spoken teaching from teacher to student, one is
>left to guesswork. And this will only bring more confusion.
> I applaud all the teachers that are trying to put into words what is
>truly wordless. There are many who think that the Buddha was a man that
>just got some cool idea and point of view on life. If that is the case, and
>suffering cannot be fully abated, then we might as well just go out and
>have a few drinks, steal a few cars and accumulate as much shit as we can
>before we die. But, he taught that BIRTH is suffering, AGING and SICKNESS
>are suffering, and DEATH is suffering. You said that he was "awakened", is
>that different than enlightenment? And these four are the fundamental
>"dukkhas". If he taught that all suffering can be removed, after one
>completes the first turning of the wheel, go back and see if those have
>been taken care of...prick yourself with a pin and if you say "ouch", you
>haven't got it yet. So move on...never stop until you see for yourself that
>the freedom from samsara is not just metaphoric, here it is literal.
> Je Tsongkhapa wrote Drang nges legs shes, Clear understanding of how to
>interpret when the Buddha was being figurative or literal. Sure, there is
>the "mythology" that Je Tsongkhapa claims to have written 10,000 pages of
>teachings in his lifetime because he was receiving direct communication
>with Manjushri. I do not doubt that anymore.
> Openness and emptiness are not the same. One cannot understand emptiness
>and pass karma off without a thought. Emptiness and karma are so intimately
>intertwined; because things do not possess a self-nature, they depend upon
>our consciousness...they arise due to the things that we do, think and say.
>You are completely in control of your future, but the past is pommeling you
>and forcing you to have the perceptions that you are having. I suggest
>reading Candace Pert on any of this, scientifically. She has done a lot of
>study with brain chemistry and has nothing to do with Buddhism, though does
>not contradict it.
> You say imaginary beings...and for you, that is true. If you haven't
>seen them, you can't comment on them. And if you have seen them, talking
>about them to someone else isn't going to make them more inspired, for
>they'll just think you're crazy. Miracles are called miracles because the
>masses need to be able to compare regularities against other regularities.
>The flashlight to a primitive culture is an irregularity though does not
>bring much awe to a developed society. Therefore, those whose minds still
>resonate in the common, do not have trust or belief in anything that
>requires a higher resonance to directly experience. However, as a
>meditative tool, these pictures, statues, and other renderings can bring
>great benefit, great reminders and greater progress on the path.
> The Buddha did experience dukkha, or suffering...but only BEFORE
>achieving buddhahood. He had lived a life as a prince, had a wife and
>son...and for countless lifetimes existed in unenlightenment. So, his
>teachings were not from his current situation but the reflection of those
>past. It is common for us to turn lemons into lemonade and then think that
>if there were no negatives in life for us to overcome, life would be
>boring. That is bullshit. The enlightened mind does not get bored, does not
>experience suffering, for the dharmakaya aspect is stainless and pure, and
>it is through this purity that all is expressed...even the impurities of
>beings who have yet to enter into the dharmadhatu.
> It has to work...that's the bottom line. If this practice we are on
>doesn't work, it is useless. There have been many masters in the past to
>make very high achievements, but total enlightenment is the rarest.
> Now, you enjoy science, and you are probably as typical an american as I
>used to be, and still am in too many ways. Science says that the human
>being can only live a certain amount of time without food or water or
>excreting waste. And yet, Ram Bahadur Bomjon, aka Palden Dorje, sat under a
>tree last year for ten months without leaving his meditation for any of
>these things. He remained in constant meditation except for two occasions
>where he helped his uncle remove a cobra from the area; his uncle was
>frantically trying to keep the snake from the boy (15) as not to interrupt
>his meditation. The boy was bitten by the snake and told his uncle he did
>not need treatment, just meditation. He disappeared on March 11, returned
>seven days later to tell his uncle that he was going deeper into the
>jungles outside Nepal to meditate for the next six years...there was too
>little peace in his previous location as too many followers were coming,
>thousands - to take pictures and pay honor
> and respect to what the hindus called the reincarnation of shiva. But, he
>was and is buddhist.
> We will see in six years, now about five. That brings us to 2012, the
>end of the Mayan calendar, which does not end because all life or the world
>ends, but because it is mapped as the next big shift in human
> As long as we still see ourselves as human, and we have not seen
>emptiness directly, we are children trying to explain the inside of the
>creepy old man's house without ever going in to see it for ourselves. The
>masters have taught us, even Jesus tried to get his students to sit still
>long enough...but, none of them have. If they would, or we would too, we'd
>see the inner kingdom that Jesus saw, we'd understand more than we ever
>humanly could in our current condition. Without this knowledge, it will all
>sound superstitious and crazy.
> See emptiness, see past lives, and see for yourself the Four Arya
>Truths. Life will change.
> Anything I can EVER do to help you in any way, and now that I understand
>your discipline (one with which I practiced for almost ten years before
>moving into the Mahayana teachings of Tibetan Buddhism) I can lend you so
>much more help. So, where would you like to start first?
> Sonam Tsering
> As long as space remains, as long as living beings remain, until then -
>may I too remain to dispel the sufferings of the world. - Master Shantideva
>Bored stiff? Loosen up...
>Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
Get Hotmail, News, Sport and Entertainment from MSN on your mobile.
- << Previous post in topic Next post in topic >>