14382Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: in response to GUru Guru....
- Sep 20, 2005
Pat of Swamiji's discourse ...........
How can one argue that the Lord cannot come down in the human form? If He is incapable of doing so, He cannot be omnipotent. You need not argue that though the Lord is capable, there is no necessity of such human form. You may not have that necessity. Are you the only human being on this whole earth? Have you taken the opinion of all the human beings to say like this? There are several devotees who belong to Nivrutti (path of liberation) and desire for the Lord in human form to see (Darsanam), to touch (Sparsanam), to hear the knowledge and clarify their doubts (Sambhashanam) and to live along with the Lord (Sahavasa) for achieving these three for a long time. The main purpose is preaching the divine knowledge and clarify the doubts. The statues or photos or energetic forms or space cannot preach the knowledge and that is against the universal observation (perception). Preaching of the knowledge by the human forms of the Lord like Krishna, Jesus etc is observed universally and accepted perception. Such universal observation is according to the rules of the nature. When something is possible through a simple way by following the rules of the nature, is it not foolish to do the same simple thing in the complicated way violating the rules of the nature? When water is available in plenty from the tap, what is the necessity of producing water by forcing Hydrogen and Oxygen to react with the help of an electric arc?
To show the production of the water by this reaction, this experiment can be performed once but not every time whenever water is required. To show the super power of the Lord a statue or a photo or the energetic form or even formless space may talk once. But to preach the spiritual knowledge continuously, the Lord need not talk continuously through statues or photos or energetic forms or space. Some devotee might have experienced such super power in some place and in some time. Such experience is not supported by simultaneous universal observation. When you are seeing the moon in the sky, others are also observing the same moon simultaneously. This is required to authorise any experience. When this authorisation is absent, your experience may be true or might have been due to some psychological disorder. The existence of such psychic experience is also observed in this world. Therefore we cannot isolate the possibility of these two cases in your experience. Therefore there is a necessity for the human form of the Lord and since the Lord is omnipotent, He is coming down in the human form. There cannot be any further argument on this point. I know you are worried that the Lord is modified into the human body and thus the unchangeable Lord has to be changed. Do not worry about this point, because the Lord is never modified into the human body. He only entered into the human body. The word Asritam in the verse of Gita Manushim tanumasritam means the entry of the Lord into the human body and not the modification of the Lord as a human body. Lord Krishna in Gita clarified this in the verse Avyaktam Vyaktimapannam.
When a person says that God sent him as messenger and that He has brought the message of the Lord, again the same problem appears. When God is giving the message to that person, nobody has seen it. That person is the single witness. Now the leftover alternative to believe that the knowledge was given by the Lord only is that we have to test the knowledge. Had we seen the transfer of the knowledge from God to that person with our eyes, we need not test that knowledge. It must have been definitely the divine knowledge. If we have to believe a statement of that person without the simultaneous universal perception, then we have to believe even a fraud person who utters the same statement. If you give us a piece of metal and say that is Gold, since God gave it, we cannot believe it. Either we must have seen the God giving it to you or we must analyse the metal. Moreover the knowledge is not like the piece of metal, which will not change by transfer. When a teacher explains a concept to somebody and asks him to deliver it to his students, it cannot be transferred as it is. The transfer of knowledge consists of not only the concept but also the explanation. The concept might have been transferred but any body other than that original teacher cannot do the same way of explanation of the concept by which the concept pierces into the heart. Therefore to propagate the divine knowledge the Lord Himself comes down in a human form. Arjuna said the same in Gita Tvadanyah which means that except the Lord nobody can preach the divine knowledge and clarify the spiritual doubts.
Veda says that the Lord alone knows about Himself (Brahmavit Brahmaiva). Gita says that nobody other than the Lord can know the Lord. Some people misinterpret this Vedic statement as that he who knows Brahman becomes Brahman. But this interpretation contradicts Gita because Gita says that nobody other than the Brahman can know Brahman. The conclusion of this is that the Lord alone can preach about the Lord or Himself. Therefore from this point of view also the Lord has to come down in the human form to preach about Himself. When the Lord preaches, He preaches the concept very clearly. Then you will naturally detect the preacher as the Lord Himself. This is inevitable with any human incarnation. Now you cannot tolerate this because you misunderstand Him that He indirectly ended in Himself. You will think that He is the biggest cheater. You will be the happiest person if His divine knowledge concludes that you are the Lord in the human form. Then you will praise such knowledge. The advaita scholar solves this problem of your egoism and jealousy by saying that He and yourself are the Lord. It is a compromise in the spiritual business. Unfortunately Lord Krishna did not know such norms of the business. Throughout the Gita He repeatedly emphasized that He alone is the Lord in the human form and He preached very clearly about the Lord. He did not say even once that Arjuna was Brahman like the Advaita scholar. He asked Arjuna to salute Him, to meditate upon Him and to serve Him (ManmanabhavaGita). If Arjuna was Brahman, Brahman cannot salute Brahman. If you have any doubt about the preacher to be the Lord, you can analyse His knowledge. First you must see whether He is coating the scriptures as a support while introducing the concepts. Then you must apply the faculty of your analysis and see whether His interpretations are logical. When you are satisfied with His divine knowledge in all angles and if such knowledge indicates Him as Lord you must accept Him.
at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
vishal pandya <yogivishal@...> wrote:
i am getting you.
but how can you say one man as a lord even lord rama even not said
himself as a lord.
i am not saying ur guru is not powerful he is powerful but not the god
sorry if i said something wrong
On 9/20/05, prakki surya <dattapr2000@...> wrote:
> Oh shenoy
> i am saadhaka only and not making any comparison with anybody. this
> discourse was written by my Satguru His Holiness Shri Datta Swami, who is
> Lord Datta in human form.
> I am surya His disciple participating in His mission of divine knowledge
> propagation. Anyway as the administrator of the Universe, it is Lord who is
> only capable of putting people in right track. I am just a human being like
> any other and serving Him only in His mission.
> in your analysis, you are more concentrating on qualities forgetting about
> the best quality devotion. Spiritual growth itself means increase of
> devotion on Lord day by day by getting more and more divine knowledge. we
> should spend every minute in getting devotion which is the best quality.
> at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
> veena shenoy <rajeevi0416@...> wrote:
> The real purpose of life cannot be understood by ego. When the ego is
> dropped, you will understand the Divine purpose of life, the Leelas or the
> Divine play. You will then enjoy the whole drama!
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