Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

14048Re: WHAT IS CERTAINTY ?

Expand Messages
  • Jeff Belyea
    May 19, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Thanks, Jody -

      Nice response.

      All is well.

      Best,

      Jeff

      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
      <jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
      > <jeff@m...> wrote:
      > > Jody,
      > >
      > > I'm not an advocate of
      > > the transmission view,
      > > and you know that. I
      > > just can't resist jostling
      > > your "certainty" whenever
      > > I read your fiery "this is
      > > nothing more than..."
      > > attempts to present your
      > > bitter bluster as objective
      > > truth.
      >
      > It's not coming from a bitter place, Jeff,
      > but a frustrated and exasperated one.
      >
      > Frustrated by the many wrong ideas and
      > beliefs about gurus, and exasperated by
      > those who believe and promote them.
      >
      > > That fundamentalists' fungi
      > > stinks worse than any flight
      > > of glittery creative rubric
      > > that goes into the make-up
      > > of the guru magic show.
      >
      > Fundamentalist? Not at all, Jeff.
      > I'm convinced any path will work,
      > including the heaviest guru bhakti
      > with the most narcissistic of the
      > "divine" among us.
      >
      > It's not what you believe (or who
      > you are believing in,) it's how you
      > believe it.
      >
      > I'm not saying that the "magic" can't
      > work, I'm that believing in magical
      > gurus is not one bit different from
      > believing in fairy tales as children.
      > And like children waiting to see the
      > tooth fairy, many folks get stuck waiting
      > for something that will never come, their
      > idea of magical enlightenment being the
      > primary impediment.
      >
      > > Voltaire, another fiery
      > > habanero imbiber who
      > > did his share of singes
      > > in his time, said,
      > > "Uncertainly may be
      > > uncomfortable, but
      > > certainty is ridiculous."
      >
      > My "certainty" is much more in how I'm
      > sounding rather than what I'm meaning.
      > As I said, the whole (ridiculous) magic
      > thing can work. It does work. That's
      > why it's so successful. But the way it
      > works is just like faith-healing. The
      > guru doesn't have the power, *you* do.
      > You allow yourself to experience your
      > *own* power in the presence of a guru,
      > because having a guru around allows you
      > to believe it will happen.
      >
      > > Anyway, I love your
      > > writing style. Even if
      > > the content is blustery,
      > > your tenacity is awesome.
      > > It's like...(another of
      > > my bruxism-producing
      > > favorites)...never not
      > > the case.
      >
      > I suppose I'm a bit of a broken record
      > about these things. Ces't la vie.
      >
      > > Your relentless pursuit
      > > of the phoney guru hasn't
      > > abated for a minute since
      > > your own Guru Application
      > > was turned down.
      >
      > My "relentless pursuit" was going long,
      > long before that little debacle. I never
      > considered that application valid
      > anyway, given the state of mind of the
      > manager there. Besides, everyone I respect
      > *except* you were out of that comeditragedy
      > soon after I left anyway.
      >
      > > You even have a handle on
      > > what constitutes a "real"
      > > guru? Where are they?
      > > Who are they?
      >
      > Anyone who knows who they are and are *not*
      > on any kind of pedestal, whether by their own
      > devices or that of their devotees.
      >
      > A real guru makes sure his/her people know
      > that they are just exactly like them, in the
      > same boat of life floating on the same sea
      > together. A real guru makes everyone know
      > that they are just as divine as anyone else,
      > that divinity is right here, right now in
      > all of our lives, exclusive of no one.
      >
      > --jody
      >
      > BTW: I'm heading into the bush for a few days.
      > I'll be back online Monday.
      >
      > > Love transmitting
      > > every minute,
      > >
      > > Jeff
      > >
      > > PS: This has to bring
      > > Bruce out.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > >
      > > > I've been in the presence of 4 well-known gurus,
      > > > and I've seen people practically flipping on the
      > > > ground like fish over them, but there was never
      > > > any evidence of anything more than their ideas
      > > > about the gurus causing anything. If "transmission"
      > > > was really a legit avenue for realization, why aren't
      > > > ALL of Amma's devotees realized?
      > > >
      > > > Amma's devotees will say because we're not pure
      > > > enough. And that is the occluding idea which Amma
      > > > clogs their brains with. The fact is that everyone
      > > > has it—as you know—they just don't all see it.
      > > > It has nothing to do with purity and everything to
      > > > do with a simple lack of recognition. That's what
      > > > a real guru helps you with. S/he doesn't bathe you
      > > > in their "divine" light. That's just sales boilerplate
      > > > to keep the satsang junkies coming. What a real guru
      > > > does is recognize the Self in the devotee, and gently
      > > > attempt to put the devotee's attention there.
      > > >
      > > > If gurus did that instead of enjoying all the adulation
      > > > that comes with being thought of as God, a whole lot
      > > > more of their devotees would actually come to realization,
      > > > rather than getting stuck in a cul-de-sac of shame and
      > > > obsessiveness over not being pure enough to know God.
      > > >
      > > > That is one of the biggest tragedies wrought by the
      > > > egregious misinterpretation of Vedanta by the hagio-
      > > > deluded progenitors of neo Hinduism coming out of
      > > > India these days.
    • Show all 21 messages in this topic