14048Re: WHAT IS CERTAINTY ?
- May 19, 2005Thanks, Jody -
All is well.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "jodyrrr"
> --- In email@example.com, "Jeff Belyea"
> <jeff@m...> wrote:
> > Jody,
> > I'm not an advocate of
> > the transmission view,
> > and you know that. I
> > just can't resist jostling
> > your "certainty" whenever
> > I read your fiery "this is
> > nothing more than..."
> > attempts to present your
> > bitter bluster as objective
> > truth.
> It's not coming from a bitter place, Jeff,
> but a frustrated and exasperated one.
> Frustrated by the many wrong ideas and
> beliefs about gurus, and exasperated by
> those who believe and promote them.
> > That fundamentalists' fungi
> > stinks worse than any flight
> > of glittery creative rubric
> > that goes into the make-up
> > of the guru magic show.
> Fundamentalist? Not at all, Jeff.
> I'm convinced any path will work,
> including the heaviest guru bhakti
> with the most narcissistic of the
> "divine" among us.
> It's not what you believe (or who
> you are believing in,) it's how you
> believe it.
> I'm not saying that the "magic" can't
> work, I'm that believing in magical
> gurus is not one bit different from
> believing in fairy tales as children.
> And like children waiting to see the
> tooth fairy, many folks get stuck waiting
> for something that will never come, their
> idea of magical enlightenment being the
> primary impediment.
> > Voltaire, another fiery
> > habanero imbiber who
> > did his share of singes
> > in his time, said,
> > "Uncertainly may be
> > uncomfortable, but
> > certainty is ridiculous."
> My "certainty" is much more in how I'm
> sounding rather than what I'm meaning.
> As I said, the whole (ridiculous) magic
> thing can work. It does work. That's
> why it's so successful. But the way it
> works is just like faith-healing. The
> guru doesn't have the power, *you* do.
> You allow yourself to experience your
> *own* power in the presence of a guru,
> because having a guru around allows you
> to believe it will happen.
> > Anyway, I love your
> > writing style. Even if
> > the content is blustery,
> > your tenacity is awesome.
> > It's like...(another of
> > my bruxism-producing
> > favorites)...never not
> > the case.
> I suppose I'm a bit of a broken record
> about these things. Ces't la vie.
> > Your relentless pursuit
> > of the phoney guru hasn't
> > abated for a minute since
> > your own Guru Application
> > was turned down.
> My "relentless pursuit" was going long,
> long before that little debacle. I never
> considered that application valid
> anyway, given the state of mind of the
> manager there. Besides, everyone I respect
> *except* you were out of that comeditragedy
> soon after I left anyway.
> > You even have a handle on
> > what constitutes a "real"
> > guru? Where are they?
> > Who are they?
> Anyone who knows who they are and are *not*
> on any kind of pedestal, whether by their own
> devices or that of their devotees.
> A real guru makes sure his/her people know
> that they are just exactly like them, in the
> same boat of life floating on the same sea
> together. A real guru makes everyone know
> that they are just as divine as anyone else,
> that divinity is right here, right now in
> all of our lives, exclusive of no one.
> BTW: I'm heading into the bush for a few days.
> I'll be back online Monday.
> > Love transmitting
> > every minute,
> > Jeff
> > PS: This has to bring
> > Bruce out.
> > >
> > > I've been in the presence of 4 well-known gurus,
> > > and I've seen people practically flipping on the
> > > ground like fish over them, but there was never
> > > any evidence of anything more than their ideas
> > > about the gurus causing anything. If "transmission"
> > > was really a legit avenue for realization, why aren't
> > > ALL of Amma's devotees realized?
> > >
> > > Amma's devotees will say because we're not pure
> > > enough. And that is the occluding idea which Amma
> > > clogs their brains with. The fact is that everyone
> > > has itas you knowthey just don't all see it.
> > > It has nothing to do with purity and everything to
> > > do with a simple lack of recognition. That's what
> > > a real guru helps you with. S/he doesn't bathe you
> > > in their "divine" light. That's just sales boilerplate
> > > to keep the satsang junkies coming. What a real guru
> > > does is recognize the Self in the devotee, and gently
> > > attempt to put the devotee's attention there.
> > >
> > > If gurus did that instead of enjoying all the adulation
> > > that comes with being thought of as God, a whole lot
> > > more of their devotees would actually come to realization,
> > > rather than getting stuck in a cul-de-sac of shame and
> > > obsessiveness over not being pure enough to know God.
> > >
> > > That is one of the biggest tragedies wrought by the
> > > egregious misinterpretation of Vedanta by the hagio-
> > > deluded progenitors of neo Hinduism coming out of
> > > India these days.
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