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  • jodyrrr
    May 19, 2005
      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
      <jeff@m...> wrote:
      > Jody,
      > I'm not an advocate of
      > the transmission view,
      > and you know that. I
      > just can't resist jostling
      > your "certainty" whenever
      > I read your fiery "this is
      > nothing more than..."
      > attempts to present your
      > bitter bluster as objective
      > truth.

      It's not coming from a bitter place, Jeff,
      but a frustrated and exasperated one.

      Frustrated by the many wrong ideas and
      beliefs about gurus, and exasperated by
      those who believe and promote them.

      > That fundamentalists' fungi
      > stinks worse than any flight
      > of glittery creative rubric
      > that goes into the make-up
      > of the guru magic show.

      Fundamentalist? Not at all, Jeff.
      I'm convinced any path will work,
      including the heaviest guru bhakti
      with the most narcissistic of the
      "divine" among us.

      It's not what you believe (or who
      you are believing in,) it's how you
      believe it.

      I'm not saying that the "magic" can't
      work, I'm that believing in magical
      gurus is not one bit different from
      believing in fairy tales as children.
      And like children waiting to see the
      tooth fairy, many folks get stuck waiting
      for something that will never come, their
      idea of magical enlightenment being the
      primary impediment.

      > Voltaire, another fiery
      > habanero imbiber who
      > did his share of singes
      > in his time, said,
      > "Uncertainly may be
      > uncomfortable, but
      > certainty is ridiculous."

      My "certainty" is much more in how I'm
      sounding rather than what I'm meaning.
      As I said, the whole (ridiculous) magic
      thing can work. It does work. That's
      why it's so successful. But the way it
      works is just like faith-healing. The
      guru doesn't have the power, *you* do.
      You allow yourself to experience your
      *own* power in the presence of a guru,
      because having a guru around allows you
      to believe it will happen.

      > Anyway, I love your
      > writing style. Even if
      > the content is blustery,
      > your tenacity is awesome.
      > It's like...(another of
      > my bruxism-producing
      > favorites)...never not
      > the case.

      I suppose I'm a bit of a broken record
      about these things. Ces't la vie.

      > Your relentless pursuit
      > of the phoney guru hasn't
      > abated for a minute since
      > your own Guru Application
      > was turned down.

      My "relentless pursuit" was going long,
      long before that little debacle. I never
      considered that application valid
      anyway, given the state of mind of the
      manager there. Besides, everyone I respect
      *except* you were out of that comeditragedy
      soon after I left anyway.

      > You even have a handle on
      > what constitutes a "real"
      > guru? Where are they?
      > Who are they?

      Anyone who knows who they are and are *not*
      on any kind of pedestal, whether by their own
      devices or that of their devotees.

      A real guru makes sure his/her people know
      that they are just exactly like them, in the
      same boat of life floating on the same sea
      together. A real guru makes everyone know
      that they are just as divine as anyone else,
      that divinity is right here, right now in
      all of our lives, exclusive of no one.


      BTW: I'm heading into the bush for a few days.
      I'll be back online Monday.

      > Love transmitting
      > every minute,
      > Jeff
      > PS: This has to bring
      > Bruce out.
      > >
      > > I've been in the presence of 4 well-known gurus,
      > > and I've seen people practically flipping on the
      > > ground like fish over them, but there was never
      > > any evidence of anything more than their ideas
      > > about the gurus causing anything. If "transmission"
      > > was really a legit avenue for realization, why aren't
      > > ALL of Amma's devotees realized?
      > >
      > > Amma's devotees will say because we're not pure
      > > enough. And that is the occluding idea which Amma
      > > clogs their brains with. The fact is that everyone
      > > has it—as you know—they just don't all see it.
      > > It has nothing to do with purity and everything to
      > > do with a simple lack of recognition. That's what
      > > a real guru helps you with. S/he doesn't bathe you
      > > in their "divine" light. That's just sales boilerplate
      > > to keep the satsang junkies coming. What a real guru
      > > does is recognize the Self in the devotee, and gently
      > > attempt to put the devotee's attention there.
      > >
      > > If gurus did that instead of enjoying all the adulation
      > > that comes with being thought of as God, a whole lot
      > > more of their devotees would actually come to realization,
      > > rather than getting stuck in a cul-de-sac of shame and
      > > obsessiveness over not being pure enough to know God.
      > >
      > > That is one of the biggest tragedies wrought by the
      > > egregious misinterpretation of Vedanta by the hagio-
      > > deluded progenitors of neo Hinduism coming out of
      > > India these days.
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