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13638Re: k versus t

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  • medit8ionsociety
    Feb 12, 2005
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "dabrown1973"
      <daleryukyu@p...> wrote:
      > hi ya all first of all, im glad their is a website devoted to one of
      > the most important things in life to me. i have experimented with a
      > variety of meditation techniques, the ones i have focused on
      > primarily is "feeling the body" and awareness of body.my first few
      > months was devoted to feeling the breath enter and leave, and it was
      > what got me hooked, but i found i couldnt do this while engaged in
      > other activities, and since i beleive its important to meditate
      > throughout the day, rather than just 20 minutes in the morning, i
      > have since moved on. for some reason, when i feel the body throughout
      > the day, i get a dull headache right where the "3rd eye" is located.
      > anybody have any info on that? secondly,i love krishnamurtis
      > teaching, as well as eckhart tolle, and have found both have been
      > beneficial. there are areas where their teaching conflict, and i
      > wondered if anybody with more clarity would want to respond on it.
      > both have written about watching your thoughts, being aware of your
      > reactions, however, tolle, as well as many others, states that when
      > you watch a thought, you are aware of your thought being there, and
      > here you are watching it(you are separate from your thought) but
      > krishnamurti states that division is the problem, that you are your
      > thoughts. anybody have any ideas, opinions on this?

      Great question! I think the answer is that you are
      looking at 2 different types of experiences. Here's
      an excellent article by the great Swami Sivananda that
      deals perfectly with these two perspectives as well
      as the other states that all are part of the divine
      Raja Yoga Samadhi. It is fairly long, but well worth
      the reading time as it also offers an opportunity
      to better understand some of the Sanskrit termonology
      that often is used to discuss these higher realms of
      awareness. Enjoy!..........

      Raja Yoga Samadhi

      Sri Swami Sivananda

      According to Raja Yoga, Samadhi is of two kinds, viz., Samprajnata and
      Asamprajnata. In the former, the seeds of Samskaras are not destroyed.
      In the latter, the Samskaras are fried or annihilated in toto. That is
      the reason why the former is called Sabija Samadhi (with seeds) and
      the latter as Nirbija Samadhi (without seeds or Samskaras).
      Samprajnata Samadhi leads to Asamprajnata Samadhi.

      The Samprajnata Samadhi is also known by the name Savikalpa Samadhi or
      Sabija Samadhi. This Samadhi brings perfect knowledge of the object of
      meditation. The mind continuously and to the exclusion of all other
      objects assumes the nature and becomes one with the object of its
      contemplation. The Yogi attains all the powers of controlling the
      nature in this Samadhi.

      The Samprajnata Samadhi is of four kinds, viz., Savitarka, Savichara,
      Sananda and Asmita Samadhi. All these Samadhis have something to
      grasp. There is Alambana or argumentation or questioning. They give
      intensive joy but they are not the best and finest forms of Samadhi.
      They cover the gross or the subtle elements of nature and the organs
      of sense. They give you the direct knowledge of the elements, objects
      and instruments of knowledge and some freedom.

      These stages are in the form of steps of an ascending staircase. To
      begin with, meditation should be done on a gross form. When you
      advance in this meditation, you can take to abstract meditation, or
      meditation on subtle things or ideas. Mind should be gradually
      disciplined and trained in meditation. It cannot all at once enter
      into the highest Asamprajnata Samadhi or that which constitutes the
      highest subtle essence. That is the reason why Patanjali Maharshi has
      prescribed the practice of various kinds of lower Samadhis. When the
      mind is extremely attached to gross objects, it is not possible to fix
      it on subtle objects all at once. There must be gradual ascent in the
      ladder of Yoga. You should place your footstep cautiously in each rung
      of the ladder. You should pass through successive stages before you
      attain the highest Asamprajnata or Nirvikalpa Samadhi. But
      Yoga-Bhrashtas who have passed through the lower stages in their
      previous birth can attain to the highest stage at the very outset
      through the grace of the Lord. If the Yogic student had reached the
      higher stage, he need not revert to the lower stages.

      All the forms of Samprajnata Samadhi are Salambana Yoga (with support)
      and Sabija Yoga (with seed of Samskara). The Yogins enjoy a form of
      freedom. Dharma Megha in Raja Yoga means "the cloud of virtue". Just
      as clouds shower rain, so also this Dharma Megha Samadhi showers on
      the Yogins omniscience and all sorts of Siddhis or powers. The Yogi
      enjoys a form of freedom. Therefore, this Samadhi is called the
      Showerer or cloud (Megha) of virtue (Dharma). The Yogi enjoys expanded
      vision of God.

      Ritambhara, Prajnaloka, Prasannavahita are the three stages or
      Bhumikas of Samprajnata Samadhi. In Ritambhara the content of the
      mental Vritti is Satchidananda. There is still a separate knower. You
      get Yathartha Jnana or real wisdom. In the second, every kind of
      Avarana (veiling) is removed. The third state is the state of peace in
      which the mind is destitute of all mental modifications. The knowledge
      that you get from testimony and inference is above objects of the
      world; but the knowledge that you obtain from Samadhi is Divine
      Knowledge. It is super-sensual, intuitive knowledge where reason,
      inference and testimony cannot go.

      Savitarka and Nirvitarka Samadhis

      Savitarka Samadhi is Samadhi with reasoning. It is a superficial
      attempt of the mind to grasp any object. In this Samadhi, Sabda
      (sound), Artha (meaning), Jnana (knowledge) are mixed up.

      The. aspirant can meditate on the body of Virat or Lord Vishnu with
      four hands or Lord Krishna with flute in hand or any ordinary object.
      He will obtain the direct perception of all the peculiar features, the
      excellences (Gunas) and defects (Doshas) of the object of meditation.
      He will have complete knowledge of the object. He will be endowed with
      all the features of the object unheard of and unthought of. He will
      obtain these through Savitarka Samadhi. The Yogic student meditates on
      the object again and again by isolating it from other objects.

      You can meditate on the gross elements also. You will gain power over
      them through intense meditation. The elements will reveal to you their

      Just as the new archer first aims at big object only and then at
      smaller ones gradually, so also the beginner in Yoga concentrates on
      the gross objects such as the five Maha Bhutas, Lord Hari with four
      hands, and then on subtle ones. In this manner the grasp of the
      objects by the mind becomes subtle. A Yogi directly perceives the real
      body of the Lord Vishnu as He lives in Vaikuntha, by the force of his
      meditation although he remains at a great distance from the Lord.

      In Savitarka Samadhi concentration is practised on gross objects and
      their nature in relation to time and space. This is a gross form of
      Samadhi. When the Yogi meditates on the elements as they are by taking
      them out of time and space, then it is called Nirvitarka Samadhi
      without questioning or reasoning or argumentation. This is a subtle
      form of Samadhi.

      In Savitarka there is Vikalpa or fanciful notion of word (Sabda),
      object (Artha) and idea (Jneya). There is no such notion in Nirvitarka
      Samadhi. There are three factors in the comprehension of a word, e.g.,
      cow—(1) cow, the word, (2) cow, the object, (3) cow, the idea in the
      mind. When the meditator imagines these three to be one and the same,
      it is an instance of Vikalpa or fanciful notion of the word, object
      and idea.

      Savichara and Nirvichara Samadhis

      If you meditate on the subtle Tanmatras (subtle elements of matter)
      and their nature in relation to time and space, it is Savichara
      Samadhi with deliberation or discrimination. This is Sukshma or
      subtle. This is subtler than Savitarka and Nirvitarka Samadhis.
      Tanmatras are the root-elements or Sukshma Bhutas. The five gross
      elements are derived from the Tanmatras through the process of
      quintuplication or mixing. Meditation goes a step higher in this
      Samadhi than in the previous one. The Yogi will get knowledge of the
      Tanmatras. He will obtain control over the Tanmatras. He will get the
      direct perception of the various subtle forms of the object
      culminating in primordial matter or Mula Prakriti.

      The word `subtle' indicates cause in general. It stands for all such
      causal principles as the Tanmatras or the primary elements egoism or
      Ahankara, Mahat Tattva or intellect and Prakriti.

      There is mysterious power, Achintya Sakti, in meditation. Although
      ordinary meditation is possible only in ways already heard and thought
      of, yet even such things as have not been heard or thought of may be
      directly cognised by the force of meditation.

      There is no difference between the cause and products. All gross
      objects are the products of the twenty-six principles. They are really
      of the same nature as that of twenty-six principles.

      If you meditate on the subtle Tanmatras by taking them out of time and
      space by thinking as they are, it will constitute Nirvichara Samadhi
      without deliberation or discrimination. As there is pure Sattva only
      in the mind owing to the eradication of Rajas and Tamas the Yogi
      enjoys internal peace or contentment (Adhyatmic Prasada) and
      subjective luminosity. The mind is very steady.

      Sananda Samadhi or the Blissful Samadhi

      Now we proceed to describe the joyful Samadhi. This is joyous Samadhi
      and it gives intense joy. In this Samadhi the gross and the five
      element's are given up. The Yogi meditates on the Sattvic mind itself.
      He thinks of the mind which is devoid of Rajas and Tamas. There arises
      in the Yogi a peculiar perception in the form of intense joy through
      this type of Samadhi.

      Asmita Samadhi

      In this Samadhi the mind is the object of meditation. It bestows the
      knowledge of the subject of all experiences. The Self knows the Self.
      The Sattvic state of the ego only remains. The Yogi can think himself
      now as without his gross body. He feels that he has a fine body. This
      Samadhi takes the Yogi to the root of experiences and shows the way to

      The Yogi feels "I am (Asmi) other than the body". He experiences that
      the gross, subtle and joyous Samadhis are not the highest Samadhis. He
      finds defects in them also and gets disgusted with them. He proceeds
      further and practises Asmita Samadhi. He experiences
      Self-consciousness (Asmita). He experiences a feeling of `enough' and
      develops dispassion in its highest form (Para Vairagya). This finally
      leads to the development of Asamprajnata Samadhi.

      Asamprajnata Samadhi or Nirbija or Nirbikalpa Samadhi

      This is the highest form of Samadhi. This comes after Viveka-khyati or
      the final discrimination between Prakriti and Purusha. All the seeds
      or impressions are burnt by the fire of knowledge. This Samadhi brings
      Kaivalya or Absolute Independence. This is the culmination or climax
      of Yoga, or final Prasankhyana which bestows the supreme, undying
      peace or knowledge. The Yogi enjoys the transcendental glories of the
      Self and has perfect freedom from the mental life. The sense of time
      is replaced by a sense of Eternity.

      In this Samadhi, there is neither Triputi nor Alambana. The Samskaras
      are fried in toto. This Samadhi alone can destroy birth end death and
      bring in highest knowledge and bliss.

      When you get full success or perfection (Siddhi) in Raja yoga by
      entering into Asamprajnata Samadhi (Nirvikalpa State), all the
      Samskaras and Vasanas which bring on rebirths are totally fried up.
      All Vrittis or mental modifications that arise form the mind-lake come
      under restraint. The five afflictions, viz., Avidya (ignorance),
      Asmita (egoism), Raga-dvesha (love and hatred) and Abhinivesha
      (clinging to life) are destroyed and the bonds of Karma are
      annihilated. This Samadhi brings on highest good (Nihsreyasa) and
      exaltation (Abhyudaya). It gives Moksha (deliverance form the wheel of
      births and deaths). With the advent of the knowledge of the Self,
      ignorance vanishes. With the disappearance of the root-cause, viz.,
      ignorance, egoism, etc., also disappear.

      In the Asamprajnata Samadhi, all the modifications of the mind are
      completely restrained. All the residual Samskaras are totally fried
      up. This is the highest Samadhi of Raja yoga. This is also known as
      Nirbija Samadhi (without seeds) and Nirvikalpa Samadhi.

      In this Samadhi, the Yogi sees without eyes, tastes without tongue,
      hears without ears, smells without nose and touches without skin. His
      Sankalpas can work miracles. He simply wills and everything comes into
      Being. This state is described in Taittariya Aranyaka—I-ii-5: "The
      blind man pierced the pearl, the fingerless put a thread into it; the
      neckless wore it and the touchless praised it."

      Eventually, the Purusha realises His own native state of Divine glory,
      Isolation or absolute Independence (Kaivalya). He has completely
      disconnected himself from the Prakriti and its effects. He feels his
      absolute freedom and attains Kaivalya, the highest goal of Raja Yoga.
      All Klesha Karmas are destroyed now. The Gunas having fulfilled their
      objects of Bhoga and Apavarga now entirely cease to act. He has
      simultaneous knowledge now. The past and the future are blended into
      the present. Everything is "Now". Everything is "Here". He has
      transcended time and space. The sum-total of all knowledge of the
      three worlds, of all secular sciences is nothing but mere husk when
      compared to the Infinite knowledge of a Yogi who has attained
      Kaivalya. Glory, glory to such exalted Yogins!
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