13638Re: k versus t
- Feb 12, 2005--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "dabrown1973"
>Great question! I think the answer is that you are
> hi ya all first of all, im glad their is a website devoted to one of
> the most important things in life to me. i have experimented with a
> variety of meditation techniques, the ones i have focused on
> primarily is "feeling the body" and awareness of body.my first few
> months was devoted to feeling the breath enter and leave, and it was
> what got me hooked, but i found i couldnt do this while engaged in
> other activities, and since i beleive its important to meditate
> throughout the day, rather than just 20 minutes in the morning, i
> have since moved on. for some reason, when i feel the body throughout
> the day, i get a dull headache right where the "3rd eye" is located.
> anybody have any info on that? secondly,i love krishnamurtis
> teaching, as well as eckhart tolle, and have found both have been
> beneficial. there are areas where their teaching conflict, and i
> wondered if anybody with more clarity would want to respond on it.
> both have written about watching your thoughts, being aware of your
> reactions, however, tolle, as well as many others, states that when
> you watch a thought, you are aware of your thought being there, and
> here you are watching it(you are separate from your thought) but
> krishnamurti states that division is the problem, that you are your
> thoughts. anybody have any ideas, opinions on this?
looking at 2 different types of experiences. Here's
an excellent article by the great Swami Sivananda that
deals perfectly with these two perspectives as well
as the other states that all are part of the divine
Raja Yoga Samadhi. It is fairly long, but well worth
the reading time as it also offers an opportunity
to better understand some of the Sanskrit termonology
that often is used to discuss these higher realms of
Raja Yoga Samadhi
Sri Swami Sivananda
According to Raja Yoga, Samadhi is of two kinds, viz., Samprajnata and
Asamprajnata. In the former, the seeds of Samskaras are not destroyed.
In the latter, the Samskaras are fried or annihilated in toto. That is
the reason why the former is called Sabija Samadhi (with seeds) and
the latter as Nirbija Samadhi (without seeds or Samskaras).
Samprajnata Samadhi leads to Asamprajnata Samadhi.
The Samprajnata Samadhi is also known by the name Savikalpa Samadhi or
Sabija Samadhi. This Samadhi brings perfect knowledge of the object of
meditation. The mind continuously and to the exclusion of all other
objects assumes the nature and becomes one with the object of its
contemplation. The Yogi attains all the powers of controlling the
nature in this Samadhi.
The Samprajnata Samadhi is of four kinds, viz., Savitarka, Savichara,
Sananda and Asmita Samadhi. All these Samadhis have something to
grasp. There is Alambana or argumentation or questioning. They give
intensive joy but they are not the best and finest forms of Samadhi.
They cover the gross or the subtle elements of nature and the organs
of sense. They give you the direct knowledge of the elements, objects
and instruments of knowledge and some freedom.
These stages are in the form of steps of an ascending staircase. To
begin with, meditation should be done on a gross form. When you
advance in this meditation, you can take to abstract meditation, or
meditation on subtle things or ideas. Mind should be gradually
disciplined and trained in meditation. It cannot all at once enter
into the highest Asamprajnata Samadhi or that which constitutes the
highest subtle essence. That is the reason why Patanjali Maharshi has
prescribed the practice of various kinds of lower Samadhis. When the
mind is extremely attached to gross objects, it is not possible to fix
it on subtle objects all at once. There must be gradual ascent in the
ladder of Yoga. You should place your footstep cautiously in each rung
of the ladder. You should pass through successive stages before you
attain the highest Asamprajnata or Nirvikalpa Samadhi. But
Yoga-Bhrashtas who have passed through the lower stages in their
previous birth can attain to the highest stage at the very outset
through the grace of the Lord. If the Yogic student had reached the
higher stage, he need not revert to the lower stages.
All the forms of Samprajnata Samadhi are Salambana Yoga (with support)
and Sabija Yoga (with seed of Samskara). The Yogins enjoy a form of
freedom. Dharma Megha in Raja Yoga means "the cloud of virtue". Just
as clouds shower rain, so also this Dharma Megha Samadhi showers on
the Yogins omniscience and all sorts of Siddhis or powers. The Yogi
enjoys a form of freedom. Therefore, this Samadhi is called the
Showerer or cloud (Megha) of virtue (Dharma). The Yogi enjoys expanded
vision of God.
Ritambhara, Prajnaloka, Prasannavahita are the three stages or
Bhumikas of Samprajnata Samadhi. In Ritambhara the content of the
mental Vritti is Satchidananda. There is still a separate knower. You
get Yathartha Jnana or real wisdom. In the second, every kind of
Avarana (veiling) is removed. The third state is the state of peace in
which the mind is destitute of all mental modifications. The knowledge
that you get from testimony and inference is above objects of the
world; but the knowledge that you obtain from Samadhi is Divine
Knowledge. It is super-sensual, intuitive knowledge where reason,
inference and testimony cannot go.
Savitarka and Nirvitarka Samadhis
Savitarka Samadhi is Samadhi with reasoning. It is a superficial
attempt of the mind to grasp any object. In this Samadhi, Sabda
(sound), Artha (meaning), Jnana (knowledge) are mixed up.
The. aspirant can meditate on the body of Virat or Lord Vishnu with
four hands or Lord Krishna with flute in hand or any ordinary object.
He will obtain the direct perception of all the peculiar features, the
excellences (Gunas) and defects (Doshas) of the object of meditation.
He will have complete knowledge of the object. He will be endowed with
all the features of the object unheard of and unthought of. He will
obtain these through Savitarka Samadhi. The Yogic student meditates on
the object again and again by isolating it from other objects.
You can meditate on the gross elements also. You will gain power over
them through intense meditation. The elements will reveal to you their
Just as the new archer first aims at big object only and then at
smaller ones gradually, so also the beginner in Yoga concentrates on
the gross objects such as the five Maha Bhutas, Lord Hari with four
hands, and then on subtle ones. In this manner the grasp of the
objects by the mind becomes subtle. A Yogi directly perceives the real
body of the Lord Vishnu as He lives in Vaikuntha, by the force of his
meditation although he remains at a great distance from the Lord.
In Savitarka Samadhi concentration is practised on gross objects and
their nature in relation to time and space. This is a gross form of
Samadhi. When the Yogi meditates on the elements as they are by taking
them out of time and space, then it is called Nirvitarka Samadhi
without questioning or reasoning or argumentation. This is a subtle
form of Samadhi.
In Savitarka there is Vikalpa or fanciful notion of word (Sabda),
object (Artha) and idea (Jneya). There is no such notion in Nirvitarka
Samadhi. There are three factors in the comprehension of a word, e.g.,
cow(1) cow, the word, (2) cow, the object, (3) cow, the idea in the
mind. When the meditator imagines these three to be one and the same,
it is an instance of Vikalpa or fanciful notion of the word, object
Savichara and Nirvichara Samadhis
If you meditate on the subtle Tanmatras (subtle elements of matter)
and their nature in relation to time and space, it is Savichara
Samadhi with deliberation or discrimination. This is Sukshma or
subtle. This is subtler than Savitarka and Nirvitarka Samadhis.
Tanmatras are the root-elements or Sukshma Bhutas. The five gross
elements are derived from the Tanmatras through the process of
quintuplication or mixing. Meditation goes a step higher in this
Samadhi than in the previous one. The Yogi will get knowledge of the
Tanmatras. He will obtain control over the Tanmatras. He will get the
direct perception of the various subtle forms of the object
culminating in primordial matter or Mula Prakriti.
The word `subtle' indicates cause in general. It stands for all such
causal principles as the Tanmatras or the primary elements egoism or
Ahankara, Mahat Tattva or intellect and Prakriti.
There is mysterious power, Achintya Sakti, in meditation. Although
ordinary meditation is possible only in ways already heard and thought
of, yet even such things as have not been heard or thought of may be
directly cognised by the force of meditation.
There is no difference between the cause and products. All gross
objects are the products of the twenty-six principles. They are really
of the same nature as that of twenty-six principles.
If you meditate on the subtle Tanmatras by taking them out of time and
space by thinking as they are, it will constitute Nirvichara Samadhi
without deliberation or discrimination. As there is pure Sattva only
in the mind owing to the eradication of Rajas and Tamas the Yogi
enjoys internal peace or contentment (Adhyatmic Prasada) and
subjective luminosity. The mind is very steady.
Sananda Samadhi or the Blissful Samadhi
Now we proceed to describe the joyful Samadhi. This is joyous Samadhi
and it gives intense joy. In this Samadhi the gross and the five
element's are given up. The Yogi meditates on the Sattvic mind itself.
He thinks of the mind which is devoid of Rajas and Tamas. There arises
in the Yogi a peculiar perception in the form of intense joy through
this type of Samadhi.
In this Samadhi the mind is the object of meditation. It bestows the
knowledge of the subject of all experiences. The Self knows the Self.
The Sattvic state of the ego only remains. The Yogi can think himself
now as without his gross body. He feels that he has a fine body. This
Samadhi takes the Yogi to the root of experiences and shows the way to
The Yogi feels "I am (Asmi) other than the body". He experiences that
the gross, subtle and joyous Samadhis are not the highest Samadhis. He
finds defects in them also and gets disgusted with them. He proceeds
further and practises Asmita Samadhi. He experiences
Self-consciousness (Asmita). He experiences a feeling of `enough' and
develops dispassion in its highest form (Para Vairagya). This finally
leads to the development of Asamprajnata Samadhi.
Asamprajnata Samadhi or Nirbija or Nirbikalpa Samadhi
This is the highest form of Samadhi. This comes after Viveka-khyati or
the final discrimination between Prakriti and Purusha. All the seeds
or impressions are burnt by the fire of knowledge. This Samadhi brings
Kaivalya or Absolute Independence. This is the culmination or climax
of Yoga, or final Prasankhyana which bestows the supreme, undying
peace or knowledge. The Yogi enjoys the transcendental glories of the
Self and has perfect freedom from the mental life. The sense of time
is replaced by a sense of Eternity.
In this Samadhi, there is neither Triputi nor Alambana. The Samskaras
are fried in toto. This Samadhi alone can destroy birth end death and
bring in highest knowledge and bliss.
When you get full success or perfection (Siddhi) in Raja yoga by
entering into Asamprajnata Samadhi (Nirvikalpa State), all the
Samskaras and Vasanas which bring on rebirths are totally fried up.
All Vrittis or mental modifications that arise form the mind-lake come
under restraint. The five afflictions, viz., Avidya (ignorance),
Asmita (egoism), Raga-dvesha (love and hatred) and Abhinivesha
(clinging to life) are destroyed and the bonds of Karma are
annihilated. This Samadhi brings on highest good (Nihsreyasa) and
exaltation (Abhyudaya). It gives Moksha (deliverance form the wheel of
births and deaths). With the advent of the knowledge of the Self,
ignorance vanishes. With the disappearance of the root-cause, viz.,
ignorance, egoism, etc., also disappear.
In the Asamprajnata Samadhi, all the modifications of the mind are
completely restrained. All the residual Samskaras are totally fried
up. This is the highest Samadhi of Raja yoga. This is also known as
Nirbija Samadhi (without seeds) and Nirvikalpa Samadhi.
In this Samadhi, the Yogi sees without eyes, tastes without tongue,
hears without ears, smells without nose and touches without skin. His
Sankalpas can work miracles. He simply wills and everything comes into
Being. This state is described in Taittariya AranyakaI-ii-5: "The
blind man pierced the pearl, the fingerless put a thread into it; the
neckless wore it and the touchless praised it."
Eventually, the Purusha realises His own native state of Divine glory,
Isolation or absolute Independence (Kaivalya). He has completely
disconnected himself from the Prakriti and its effects. He feels his
absolute freedom and attains Kaivalya, the highest goal of Raja Yoga.
All Klesha Karmas are destroyed now. The Gunas having fulfilled their
objects of Bhoga and Apavarga now entirely cease to act. He has
simultaneous knowledge now. The past and the future are blended into
the present. Everything is "Now". Everything is "Here". He has
transcended time and space. The sum-total of all knowledge of the
three worlds, of all secular sciences is nothing but mere husk when
compared to the Infinite knowledge of a Yogi who has attained
Kaivalya. Glory, glory to such exalted Yogins!
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