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13551Re: Weekly Words ofWisdom-Love-Bob

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  • tarah513
    Jan 17, 2005
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
      <no_reply@y...> wrote:

      Dear Faithe,
      I'd say that you present an intellectual
      argument pretty well, but it is a spiritual
      and emotional situation. As Gurdjieff would
      put it, you're using the "wrong center"
      to deal with Love.

      Faithe:

      You separate "intellectual" from "spiritual &
      emotional" situations. Is there really a
      separation? (More below in this topic.)

      Since Gurdjieff is not around to ask what he
      means, I will side-step the comment on
      "wrong center" as you say he would put it.

      I ask YOU what do you mean by "wrong center"?

      Bob:

      In Raja Yoga, the yoga
      of meditation, we find the first 2 steps
      are to discriminate between the real/eternal
      and the unreal/transient, and to have dispassion.

      Faithe:

      And how does one be discriminate at the same
      time as having dispassion? Is this not a conflict
      of terms? To discriminate is to find favor with
      something compared to another...which suggests
      emotion.

      Bob:

      The selfish love you write of is clearly
      situational and changing. It goes from worthy to
      unworthy.

      Faithe:

      I disagree. The selfish love which I speak of is
      unchanging. It is the "unselfish" love that
      vacillates from the worthy to unworthy. The selfish
      love is always worthy.

      Bob:

      This has nothing whatsoever to do with
      what Swamiji is pointing to. To use an example
      from another yoga that deals with Love, Kundalini
      Yoga, the Heart Chakra, when opened, is not
      selfish at all, and is infinite and non-exclusive
      in nature.

      Faithe:

      Could you please explain that further. I do not
      understand what you are saying. What does this
      love, when opened, do? How do you suppose that
      this Kundalini Yoga came to be?

      Bob:

      And when the veil of illusion is ripped
      away, the undescribable Reality presents itself as
      can perhaps best be most closly described as
      Loving Consciousness.

      Faithe:

      Have you met "Loving Consciousness". Who rips
      this veil away? Why is "Reality" undescribable?

      Bob:

      Words can only give a drop in the oceans worth of
      understanding of what this "Love" is.

      Faithe:

      Forget about the drops, do you understand it,
      and if so, can you explain it to me a little bit
      better?

      Bob:

      IT is only known experientially. And until that is
      our reality, all of our "selfish" actions are only
      attempts to experience this unselfish Love.

      Faithe:

      What is this "IT" that you refer to? Since it is only
      known personally through experiences (experientially)
      then it should be able to be explained...no?

      Could you please give me an example of what you
      perceive to be a "selfish" action?

      Bob:

      Peace and blessing,
      Bob

      PS: I remember Swami Satchidananda once saying
      (and I'm paraphrasing here) that the most selfish
      person was the one who wants to be unselfish,
      as s/he knows that only then will the entire
      creation be known as themselves, and thus
      satisfy all desires.

      Faithe:

      And what does that above mean? Sounds confusing to me.

      With all the conversation above, I now
      point out that your attempt to separate
      "intellectual" from "spiritual" is nothing
      more than a concept derived from an intellectual
      base to describe the "spiritual" as "separate".

      You make reference to "steps to be taken" above in
      Yoga...this too is nothing more than using the
      intellectual to come up with more concepts.

      All the meditation & yoga "theories", practices
      and "how to's" are all intellectual means to
      describe a process. Man is wondrous in using
      the intellectual to explain everything...even
      to the point of saying certain things are
      "unexplainable"...because intellectually
      they have been set up that way.

      Please, do not construe this as a belittling of
      meditation & yoga, because this is NOT the intention.
      What I am attempting to do is to take the mystique,
      secretiveness and "unexplainable" aspect out of it. My
      life is one continual meditative process.

      Man has been working on making spirituality full of
      hidden meanings, etc., for thousands of years. Haven't
      we been asleep long enough? Isn't it about time
      that we wake up to this fraud and take the hocus-
      pocus out of it?

      The "Loving Consciousness" that you refer to, falls
      into this same mode. It has been conceived out of
      the intellectual. Can you explain the difference
      between "Loving Consciousness" and "consciousness"?

      Intellectually, emotionally & spiritually yours,

      Faithe
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