13061Re: [Meditation Society of America] Digest Number 1027/jason
- Jul 4, 2004Hi Jason,
> Hi Grant, thanks for the share!replying to the digest last time. Always drives me crazy when that happens
> Apologies to you and the the other folks here for forgetting to edit when
and I'm receiving.
>(which >probably shows). Just wisps right off the cuff.
> --- I thought it very clear. But then again I rarely edit the text I write
I meant that I hadn't cut out redundant copied text, of which there's a lot,
if you reply to the digest, ie not snipping.
> >I've never been a buff or a big time knower of types and names ofweapons.
>I remember names and faces on screen and directors. I've often been amazed
> I'm a terrible accumulator of gun names and models, the same with cinema,
at how effortless this is and opined at my failure to make any real use of
this skill other than for fun.
>part my >memory is less then keen.
> --- Wow, thats great! I'm like that with music and cars. But for the most
My memory for this trivia stuff is getting worse now; maybe it's aging,
maybe it's repeated blows to the top of the head (we live in a house with
low doorways and I'm tallish).
> >I'm >not a big gun fan(via
> >in general for the simple fact that I just don't need a gun these days
> hunting or >sharplocked up and out of the way of the kids.
> Mine's just for fun but at the same time it's not a toy and I keep it
>discipline and repetition.
> They like to shoot with me occasionally but are soon bored by the
>Mine aren't reading yet but we live in the country and have plenty of books
> --- Yea I understand. I don't do that well with repeatition either unless
>it's >something that somehow really grabs me. My kids can't sit still for
>much other >then movies and the tv. One or two of them can actually sit and
>read an entire >book, but only on rare occasions of sheer bordem.
so we hope they'll get a taste for it.
They'll sit down and draw or paint or make things (they're 6 and 3) but
their concentration, while intense, is short-lived.
> >and really don't want the responsability to keep them out of the handsthere
> the kids,
> >especially when they feel they want to impress thier friends. I know
> are >ways to do this andto
> >teach them they shouldn't be pulling out weapons to show off, but that
> would be >the only reason I
> >would have a gun collection (to show them off). It's just too dangerous
> have >them around, evenfor instance the gun laws are very draconian making the ownership of any
> >when properly trained in the use.
> I agree with you as far as bullet firing weapons are concerned. In England
firearm a tricky proposition and i fully support them.
>I couldn't agree more. The type of conflict you describe is traditional
> --- It's wierd for me... I'm not a big advocate of laws in general, but
>somehow >it's slighty unnerving if I think about the new gun laws at the
>local bar (pub) in that >someone might just have a gun, get drunk and start
>firing off rounds when >someone looks at thier girlfriend wrong.
outside pubs the length and breadth of the UK on friday nights at closing
time. I'd dread to think what would happen if people were toting guns;
enough damage is done with fists and glasses as it is.
>This is the state of the US more often then not. From what I hear fromfriends, >they seem to be constently nervous of being injured and or killed,
which is a huge >reason for this endless piles of laws we seem to have.
>if you're a soccer fan) everyone has a shotgun and goes hunting. Several
> Where I live now (Portugal, just about to win the European cup by the way,
hunters are blown away annually by other hunters, as well as thousands of
small birds, rabbits, deer and boar.
>of the >metro-parks here open up for dear season and there is pratically
> --- Yes, shooting up the forest! We have that here pretty often too! Some
always a story >about how someone got shot in thier backyard trimming bushes
or playing with >the dog.
> >Not that I'm against gun ownership, especially >when people are
> >smart about using them, but here in Ohio they just passed a law that
> gun >owners rights tocrime. In Canada for instance, while they have almost as many guns percapita
> >carry them concealed and there are just alot of angery people out there.
> I think it's a complex issue, the relationship between gun law and gun
as the states, they still have almost negligible rate of death by shooting.
>I can't remember what the rate of taxation was last time I looked but
> --- True. I think the mentality is more stable in Canada. One major reason
>is that >they have a form of government that actually tends to cater to the
>desires of the >people and manages a health care system thats "free" as
>well. The US >government is a tax junkie and the people pay every last cent
>for greedy palms >>(including all sorts of insurances). I typically get
>half my earned salary after >taxes .and I hear england is running close
>behind in wage taxation. Costs for >goods here are very high in comparison
>to income, but you might hardly notice it >on the surface in the middle
certainly the UK's NHS is a wonderful thing. In general the UK is spending
more of its tax income socially since the Tories were defeated.
> This was something highlighted in the excellent 'Bowling for Columbine' byMichael Moore; highly recommended as a doc. on these issues if you haven't
caught it already.
>growing list of docs to look into.
> --- No, I haven't maybe I'll check it out. For sure I'll add it to the
> >Anywho, I'm glad to hear you actually enjoy the gun and shooting. I've
> to >the range withdon't
> >friends and had a great time firing off rounds too! Funny how I just
> have >any motivationleisure time activity; I hope to do some archery too one of these days.
> >for that kind of stress relief stuff anymore.
> >Peace and Love
> I'm glad to say that most of the time my shooting is just an agreeable
>from time at the PC and then a spot of shooting (by moonlight with the
> In terms of stress relief, I often get hunched in my shoulders and neck
lasersight!) provides welcome relief from that particular stress, as does
the throwing about of nunchukas from time to time.
>Yes; we look at it through a small telescope and can see craters. The
> --- Yes, that sounds like an all around great view to have of weapons in
>general. >I enjoy doing all sorts of stuff by moonlight too, the moon is
>such a draw!
landscape gets lit up so each feature is very stark and clear; beautiful.
We have dogs and a cherry tree too so it can get very zennish.
> Speaking of which.... I was enjoying the full moon tonight and noticed it.>standard measure). Yet tonight it's just a little over 1/4. It's
>low in the sky but much smaller then it was last time when it was this low
>in the sky. Last time, at arms length it measured aprox. 1 inch (sorry US
>how many theories there are about why the moon appears so big when it's lowWere asking similar questions ourselves just the other night. I favour the
>in the horizon, but tonight it's not. I guess I'm still in awe of such
>mysteries. Perhaps the moons orbit does get shallower, but according to
>science, it doesn't change in distance very much at all.
theory that says it looks bigger because of comparison with objects on the
horizon and the horizon itself; without an object to compare it to its
subjective size shrinks.
The amount I don't know about astronomy and the movements of the planets
fills several large libraries though.
The skies here (southern portugal) are very clear and I love to look at the
stars, without really knowing much about them. On most nights if you look up
when you're outside (our bathroom is a walk away from our house) you'll see
I was given a wonderful program that runs on real time and will print out
star maps of the sky from your longitude and latitude. You can hold them at
arms length next to the sky they represent and follow constellations; name
stars. Red Shift 4 it's called, great piece of kit.
> Hunter S Thompson was a big fan of destressing by shooting with largeguns, as I recall.
>anti-liberal charge as symbols, though there's an intimate relationship
> Guns and knives and the martial arts in general carry a heavy non-pc
between the martial arts and religion; I've just read 'Zen in the Art of
Archery' by Eugene Herrigel which is fascinating and all about this.
>Not in form but in essence.
> --- Is it anything like Zen and the art of motorcycle maintainence?
> I read that some years ago and wasn't too fond of the ideas behind theAs I remember it, it's more the process of maintenance, the craft/skill
>comparison. Zen just feels so personal and abstract where motorcycle
>maintainence more mechanical, geometric, general and scientific.
itself, rather than the technological object, that's being looked at for its
In ZIAA, Herrigel is not allowed to practice Zen in Japan until he has
mastered a Zen art, such as calligraphy, flower arranging or archery.
To begin with, he is unsure how the art relates to the spiritual practice,
seeing them as distinct. To begin with it is not clear that his archery
master is also a master of Zen too.
Eventually he reaches the position of shooting without intention, aim or
control; of allowing IT to shoot through him.
In ZIMM he talks about a similar flow in the care of motorcycle engines; a
way that engines which have been maintained with care display this in their
running. The care he's talking of should be capitalised really as it's
analgous to zen practice.
> There was just >alot of referencing to mechanation and logic in what it'slike to >experience being >human. To me, the 2 are almost completely
Yes, I seem to remember that there was alot of heavy philosophy stuff with
his alter-ego Phaedrus or something, which I didn't enjoy at the time, but I
think there is zen in the maintenance of engines, in motorcycles and engines
I see no difficulty in analogising humanity in machine terms; in my view, we
are biological body/mind machines, conditioned by the collision of
environment and psychophysical nature to behave/think/feel as we do.
> Oh, which reminds me of a preview for a new movie thats comming out that Irobots to >serve mankind, but then the robots attempt to take control (not a
>saw before spiderman 2 this evening. It's about the human race building
new idea, but >looks like fun for sci-fi/action buffs like me), adopting the
human attributes of >power and desire.
Yeah, 'I, Robot', does it look cool?
Am an sf fan too and I wonder how close it will be to Asimov's original (not
at all by the look of it). There was 'Bicentennial Man' that was made out of
another of his books but I missed that, di you catch it? Just re-reading the
classic 'Foundation' series again now. Bit dated and dry but good fun too!
>It's starring Will Smith (who was a rapper, turned tv star, then >moviestar) and >who I think is great and versatile, even in the more serious
Yes, he's great in 'Men In Black' and 'Independence Day' and when he just
started out in 'Six Degrees of Separation'.
>Just some >thoughts as you mentioned cinema, spiderman 2 was awesome andExcellent!
>thrilling! >Better then the first one I think.
Am a big Raimi fan, love comic books and thought the last one was fabulous.
Nice slinging webs with you,
> Peace and Lovewonder if people on here just pass the experience by, perhaps no one here
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> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 05:06:06 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@...>
> Subject: Stepping away - Remote View
> Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@...> wrote:
> I've posted stuff like this before without much or any todo over it. I
can't relate. I'd be interested in comments and/or thoughts.
>quite often, but stopped for the last experience was vapid and seemed
> Last night I set aside a little time for a practice that I used to do
deadly. It's a remote viewing of sorts, but it doen't seem to take on the
quality that I have read about in the past. Most people that I have read on
the experience of remote viewing describe it as a tearing away from the
body, almost like a ripping can be heard/felt.
>the time it doesn't matter anymore what position. There are 3 stages. The
> I did do a short travel last night and this is how it typically goes...
> It's a must (I have found) to lie down, usually on my back, but most of
first is a silent witness role, as in most meditation practices, of just
getting into watch mode. It's not in breath control or any other exercise
though, since what your looking to do is break away from the body. As I
start to fall back the second stage is a heaviness, a sinking like a ton,
but if I lift my arm during it feels normal, it's something else that gets
heavy. This is where I usually used to bail out, it's very, very heavy as
you follow it in. The third step is as the heaviness smooths out into a
float, but the sensation is practically vacant, almost as if the feeling
aspect is just residual. Like feeling limbs, eyes ears, etc. are just
minimal sensations, but there is a very strong emotional feeling, not sure
how to describe it because typically when there is feeling of emotion there
is a bodily sensation that correspondes,
> there just isn't that sort of sensation, it's very dull.feel a balance or local I only "see" local and very fainty "hear", both of
> After that stage I'm there and can move about (as if by will). I don't
which are very clear but ghostly in quality. I don't have perfect vision and
usually cant read the clock across the room well, but in this "state" it's
crystal clear, but hollow in appearence. It's almost like the reverse of
what a ghostly image is to a physical body. If you pass your hand through a
mist, thats what it's like with normally solid objects. There also seems to
be a residual self image of a body going on too, as I have gone by a mirror,
looked at myself and I look like I would "expect" myself to look like. I
often don't get off far, for to long, maybe 10-12 feet from the body, then
the heaviness kicks in and almost immediately I'm back.
>in writting it. Part of it is "passing" on the logic of it "this can't be
> I'm a pretty logical oriented person, all of this sounds far fetched, even
happening" which stops it pronto, although there may be a slight heaviness
for a few minutes after. I can't suggest that any try it unless they have
been in the heaviness stage before and know how that feels. It's not painful
or anything, just very intense.
>I'd really be interested in anyones thoughts or shares, save it though if
> Since many of us here talk about meditation, yoga and spiritual practices,
you just think I'm hallucinating, I've already concidered that! Being an LSD
user in the past, this aint nothing like that at all. Since Jeff isn't
around anymore, no one "goes" there much these days with me, at least not on
> Peace and Love
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