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12983Re: About Drugs and Delusional Advise/Bob...Anna

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  • Jason Fishman
    Jun 21, 2004
      Hi Bob,
      As with dependencies in general, there is a continual cause and effect idealism about these dependencies. Not that this post will help Anna or any other person that has a habitual drug use need. It's just that the need is paramount to the issue it's trying to address. No one can address those issue like Anna or any other dependent person can, thats the crux of what I see Tom saying here. Not that Anna should dump the drug because he believes something about it, but that Anna should take a gander into the dependence she places on the drug and find out what value weening off the drug might provide for her.
      Simply put, the anxiety seemed to spur the need for the drug, now they are interdependent, which the way out of interdependency is to tackle the problem or perceptual problems that provide us the use of the drug. When broken down, there is very little truth to drug using beyond the desire to not suffer, or to stay alive, or to enjoy our aliveness, as well as a plethera of other assorted goodies we like to use to make things better, funner or more useful. This boils down to mearly tackling the perceptual-ness of the need, do I want to live a life without anxiety? if yes, then I do so by tackling it with or without the use of a dependency like a drug. Should I think that anxiety won't pop up again, probably not, but when it does will I be better equipt to manage it? And as I do so, become better able to manage it, as that progresses, is anxiety really an issue for me anymore?
      So Anna, no one here is an authority as to how weening you from the drug might affect you. As Bob said most doc's might be afraid to remove patients from drug dependencies since it affects people in all sorts of ways, or a doc might hook a patient into another drug. Best for you to make those desicions, since the power is in your hands, which might jsut cause a whole 'nother set of anxieties. The key here is what your willing to do, as those here can only offer up from thier experiences, you must pull from yours.
      Best of luck!
      Peace and Love

      medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tom flou"
      <tom@f...> wrote:
      > >  Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 15:47:26 -0700 (PDT)
      > >  From: Anna Cardinal <kalinitkadrimos@y...>
      > >  Subject: Re: About Drugs and Meditation
      > > Tom,
      > > Thank you for great information.
      > > This is what concerns me, I believe 15 years of this toxin is
      possibley irreversible.
      > This is a very natural worry that you can notice when it enters your
      > The thought itself is not unreasonable, but you need to investigate
      > its plausibility.
      > Promoting it into a belief is a problem, then you are hooked on it,
      > - until you don't believe it anymore.
      > (The little man I talked about, keeps sending upp all the thoughts
      he think
      > you need to support your current belief-system ;-)
      > I, for one, do not believe it is a fact.

      Well, one can believe that there is no moon in the sky, no other
      living people, horses that talk, and other similar things, but it is a
      FACT that there is a brutal physical, emotional, and mental result if
      you are not weaned off of a benzodiazepine medication medically
      appropriately. You will have "REAL" problems that may take weeks or
      even months to come on, but when they do, and they will, whether you
      "believe" it or not, ... you'll then understand why many doctors Anna
      has seen refuse to even get involved with the process. But, there are
      physicians who can help getting off of these meds. It's a matter of
      finding them.

      > I have a friend who for many years has taken Clonazepam for epilepsy.
      > If he forgets to take it, he is at risk of getting an epileptic
      > but he does not miss the drug in any other way - rather, he feels
      less tired without it.
      > But when you discontinue the drug, your underlying anxiety emerges
      > This can be mistaken for withdrawal symptoms.

      No - you WILL experience withdrawal symptoms. And they are heavy-duty
      and can be life threatening.

      > In fact this is what you choose to believe,
      > according to your self-proclaimed belief-system ;-)

      No, all of medical knowledge will point to this as reality - not a
      "belief system". Thinking they are just a choice that can be ignored
      is a potentially dangerous "self-proclaimed belief-system".

      > >I am working very hard at "being surpremely happy in thought",

      > All this hard work does nothing but draining your energy, Anna.
      > It cannot be 'done'.

      Well, there are dozens of studies that demonstrate that "being
      surpremely happy in thought" is very much more beneficial to healing,
      organ-system function, mood, and so on, than is just letting your
      thoughts run wild and/or stay in negativity.

      > The happiest you can get, is when you let go of all thoughts :-)
      > Start with investigating the truth-value of all emerging thoughts.
      > Write them down as they appear.
      > Then, ask yourself, one by one, if you can be really certain, they
      are true.
      > If not, discard them. (Once you realize they are lies, you don�t
      want them anyway)
      > It takes some doing and repetition. Don't blame yourself, if they
      emerge again.
      > This part is beyond your control.

      > >and to just tell the negative stuff that starts swirling around in
      our minds, to go away.
      > >It has no true power over us.  We are protected all the time, even
      > >and even when we do not consciosly asks.
      > Yes! In reality there are no problems.

      That's quite a judgement call, and I think that this statement itself
      is leaning towards magical thinking, and being in denial, and a whole
      bunch of other "problems".

      > Problems are caused by the mind,

      and the body, and other people, and stress, and other things that on
      our dualistic reality extistence level are "real".

      > suggesting uninvestigated, unverified hypothesis, we chose to
      believe in.

      Like much of what you have shared here. I'm sure you have good
      intentions, but medically I think you mistaken, and it would be a
      disaster to follow the path you are pointing to.

      > >Peace and Agape,
      > >Anna
      > You too!
      > Tom

      Peace and blessings,

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