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12687[Meditation Society of America] Re: lucid dreaming, pavlani's question and yoga

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  • Melody
    Feb 3, 2004
      > >
      > > In this sense, the idea earlier expressed
      > > about "yielding to gravity", struck me.
      > >
      > >
      > > If Sandeep's response to you about Pavlani
      > > could be said to have effected a kind of
      > > 'gravitational pull',
      > >
      > > what would a yielding response have
      > > looked like, in the context of yoga?
      > Hi, Melody, this is a good question, because 'yielding'
      > can be misinterpreted to be 'giving way', which it is
      > not. It is, rather, a 'meeting in balance', which sometimes
      > requires getting to know the 'force' that is coming at you,
      > and to meet it equally.
      > Think of what it is to 'yield' to traffic as you merge
      > onto a highway. You do not blast right in, nor do you
      > linger back timidly. You must gauge the speed and position
      > of the vehicles you will be merging with, and adjust your
      > speed and position accordingly. In traffic, just as in
      > 'real life', there are certain ways to 'know' who is
      > in the 'main traffic flow' and who is 'merging'.

      So, to follow your example of yielding in traffic,

      there seems to need to be a balance between
      knowing the 'laws' that pertain [to individual
      bodies]....whether 'natural', or man-made,

      as well as a sense of 'flow' [where the sense of
      individuality, and all the accompanying past future
      associations, are suspended].

      Is that too simplistic an observation?

      > In yoga, the most widely seen symbol of 'yielding' is
      > anjali mudra, or prayer position. Left meeting right
      > and right meeting left. Typically, to find 'equal
      > pressure', it takes a bit of 'back and forth'.

      Like finding the centering point on a set of scales?

      > > And to what extent does concerns over
      > > future rewards or consequences have
      > > in one's ability to have ones inte-rest
      > > completely on the 'body' of the presentation -
      > >
      > > rather than on the gravitational effect
      > > of the way that presentation impacted
      > > our own 'body'?
      > >
      > > How could the experience of having
      > > "no-center", as opposed to having a center
      > > which can be manipulated or pushed
      > > or pulled,
      > >
      > > alter the mind's discernment?
      > >
      > > These are the types of questions that
      > > interest me, in the context of earlier
      > > insights and discussions.
      > Well then, please share your insights into your
      > questions. I'd love to read them.
      > Nina

      My initial thought was that the mind's
      attempts to know or expose the motivation
      behind an [outside] movement affecting
      its course

      appeared to succeed in pulling the body/mind
      off balance.

      (Not saying my perception was "for sure",
      of course.....only revealing what I 'saw'.)

      I was wondering if perhaps there was some
      pointer in your earlier offering , from
      the thread "Focalization-body, a map of consciousness"
      in which you offered Dona Holleman's 'take' on
      embodiment, and the dynamic of body/no-body:

      "To be totally attentive to the body means that you are
      interested in the body and in the movement. 'Interest' in
      Latin, as we said before, means 'to be inside'. It is the
      moment of being inter-ested, being 'inside' the movement
      or the posture as the posture unfolds that makes it complete.
      There is no future reward and no retreating involved, but it
      is only the moment as it is there. So the body is completely
      filled with the mind. The mind fills the body completely
      from the bone structure to the skin structure, while as long
      as there is a future reward the mind is very small within the
      skin and so there is a lot of empty space in the body."

      Maybe it's possible to relate the observation above,
      to that of the work of "yielding".

      Concerning 'yielding' in traffic, it's a balance
      between being 'mindful' of the laws, and going
      beyond mind (or reason, or memory) and getting
      into the 'flow' (no mind.)

      To do one, without the other, you're apt
      to crash the vehicle. :-)

      I see that this now weaves back into Freyja's
      posting of the lyrics of the song "The Rose",
      and to the discussion about discernment.

      And the question arises,

      what place does "discerning the motives of
      others" have in 'Yielding'?

      More specificially,

      is suspicion, in and of itself, an
      indicator that the balance between
      'mind' and 'flow' has been lost?

      It seems, from here, that suspicion,
      reveals desire to 'manage' the flow,
      [or outcome] rather than dissolve into it.

      I'd look forward to hearing your
      take on this.
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