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12600Localization - dualist in space - endless musings

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  • Gregory Goode
    Jan 29, 2004
      Sorry about my top posting too! Is that a rule here?

      Nice article Bob! I'd say that the "maglev" phenomenon is a physical metaphor for what we were talking about here. It could be an aid in teaching it! One can understand first the physical body, qua solid physical body, floating or levitating. This is actually how some people first visualize the movement meditation I was speaking about. They first need to sever their notion of the physical body from some other customary notions, like "a body always sinks" - before they can begin to see that it isn't physical in the first place. The body is made of sensations, just like the teacup and the freight train. There's no Out There with physical substance external to these sensations, causing them. And of course the sensations don't sink! They are lightness, and come and go, like breath.



      On 1/30/04 00:02 am medit8ionsociety (no_reply@yahoogroups.com) wrote:

      Dear Nina and all,<BR>
      Sorry about the top posting, which I under/overstand is no longer PC.<BR>
      There's a (supposedly) spiritual truism which states "As above, so<BR>
      below". Well, Nina and Greg's fine commentaries on moving,<BR>
      weightlesness, gravity, etc may somehow connect with this article on<BR>
      magnetic levitation from Popular Science magazine, and all of it may<BR>
      have some evolutionary spiritual understanding to be gained in regard<BR>
      to seeing how things in the physical world relate to the inner universe.<BR>
      <a href="http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/article/0,12543,577754,00.html#"><a href="http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/article/0,12543,577754,00.html#" target="NewWin">http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/article/0,12543,577754,00.html#</a></a><BR>
      I found this article at least semi-interesting, and with some possibly<BR>
      magical thinking, I extrapolated how being centered/having developed a<BR>
      "higher body"/having control overand/or being in touch with your<BR>
      moving center, and other similar things, could lead to being able to<BR>
      do what most would think can't be done, which is a kind of sub-plot to<BR>
      the article. There's also a very cool Real Player levitation<BR>
      demonstration thing if you click on a link on the right side of the<BR>
      page. In any event, as with Gregji's brillant presentation on<BR>
      movement, I enjoyed Nina's sharing very much. Thanks!<BR>
      Peace and blessings,<BR>
      "Nina" <murrkis@y...> wrote:<BR>
      > To pick up on this thread again, I wanted to share a few<BR>
      > randome musings, including something I heard on XM Radio <BR>
      > Discovery channel.<BR>
      > <BR>
      > First, a few links:<BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > A general overview of the physiological effects of weightlessness:<BR>
      > <BR>
      > <a href="http://www.permanent.com/s-nograv.htm"><a href="http://www.permanent.com/s-nograv.htm" target="NewWin">http://www.permanent.com/s-nograv.htm</a></a><BR>
      > <BR>
      > 11. vertigo and spatial disorientation: Without a stable <BR>
      > gravitational reference, crew members experience arbitrary and <BR>
      > unexpected changes in their sense of verticality. Rooms that are <BR>
      > thoroughly familiar when viewed in one orientation may become <BR>
      > unfamiliar when viewed from a different up-down reference. Skylab <BR>
      > astronaut Ed Gibson reported a sharp transition in the familiarity of <BR>
      > the wardroom when rotated approximately 45 degrees from the "normal" <BR>
      > vertical attitude in which he had trained. There is evidence that, in <BR>
      > adapting to weightlessness, the brain comes to rely more on visual <BR>
      > cues and less on other senses of motion or position. In orbit, Skylab <BR>
      > astronauts lost the sense of where objects were located relative to <BR>
      > their bodies when they could not actually see the objects. After <BR>
      > returning home, one of them fell down in his own house when the <BR>
      > lights went out unexpectedly [4, 18].<BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > Here is another general overview if the physiological effects of <BR>
      > weightlessness:<BR>
      > <BR>
      > <a href=""><a href="" target="NewWin"></a></a><BR>
      > q=cache:u3UUmJLWudoJ:library.thinkquest.org/C003763/index.php%3Fpage%<BR>
      > 3Dadapt02+the+effects+of+weightlessness&hl=en&ie=UTF-8<BR>
      > <BR>
      > In this link to an experiment on 'critters in space', it is<BR>
      > possible to reflect on how deeply rooted our spatial mapping<BR>
      > in relation to gravity may be:<BR>
      > <a href="http://lsda.jsc.nasa.gov/scripts/cf/exper.cfm?exp_index=256"><a href="http://lsda.jsc.nasa.gov/scripts/cf/exper.cfm?exp_index=256" target="NewWin">http://lsda.jsc.nasa.gov/scripts/cf/exper.cfm?exp_index=256</a></a><BR>
      > (click +Read full experiment description)<BR>
      > <BR>
      > More on some experiments:<BR>
      > <a href="http://www.redcross.org/news/bm/holland/010313wtless.html"><a href="http://www.redcross.org/news/bm/holland/010313wtless.html" target="NewWin">http://www.redcross.org/news/bm/holland/010313wtless.html</a></a><BR>
      > <BR>
      > Gravity, is the force of attraction between any two objects.<BR>
      > It seems, that our physiological relationship to duality is<BR>
      > 'built in' - not just in our own bodies, but in all of<BR>
      > physical space and form - which has some interesting implications<BR>
      > for nonduality.<BR>
      > <BR>
      > The other interesting mention in the link above is the<BR>
      > experiments that are being done with orthostatically suspended<BR>
      > mice. Apparently, restrained suspension produces physiological<BR>
      > effects similar to those of suspension in zero gravity, such<BR>
      > as the production of opioids and certain changes in the immune<BR>
      > system.<BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > Returning, now, to what I heard on Discovery Channel / XM Radio,<BR>
      > it was an interview with an astronaut about her experiences<BR>
      > upon returning to earth from weightless, zero gravity space<BR>
      > flight. She described how her inner ear took a while to<BR>
      > 'reboot', and so during this time, her eyes had to serve as<BR>
      > her main means of spatial navigation.<BR>
      > <BR>
      > This astronaut describe how everything<BR>
      > in space becomes referent to her, rather than the other way<BR>
      > around. This is remarkably like what Greg and Gene have described<BR>
      > in previous posts - the world moved around her, rather than<BR>
      > her moving through the world. For instance, upon returning, she<BR>
      > found that it was not that she was climbing steps, but rather,<BR>
      > that she was pushing steps down. (This may also have something to<BR>
      > do with the physiological changes experienced by pressure<BR>
      > receptors.)<BR>
      > <BR>
      > On this show, it was also described how sudden changes in the<BR>
      > visual field, such as the lights going off, would cause returned<BR>
      > astronauts to lose their balance and fall.<BR>
      > <BR>
      > This is interesting to me, because our eyes do function in this<BR>
      > way, and can be trained to assume more of this role. A steady<BR>
      > gaze and steady breathing in combination with all of the<BR>
      > sensory information coming from the muscles and skin of the<BR>
      > body are used to perform complicated balance postures in <BR>
      > hatha yoga. I've always thought this has interesting implications<BR>
      > for folks with vertigo.<BR>
      > <BR>
      > It is remarkable how our 'brains' (inclusive of body and mind)<BR>
      > adapt to different experiences of gravity. Could it be that we<BR>
      > are not sick because of a certain 'condition of gravity', but<BR>
      > rather, we are sick due to the processes of adaption/change?<BR>
      > Seasickness does not seem too far removed from space sickness.<BR>
      > <BR>
      > One way to play with the way the body adapts to gravity is<BR>
      > to jump on a trampoline long for a time and then come back<BR>
      > to solid ground. Even with a few minutes of altered relation<BR>
      > to gravity (muscular, inner ear, sight), the return to solid<BR>
      > ground creates a situation in which balance and muscular effort<BR>
      > is taken from the 'background' into 'foreground'. Just try<BR>
      > jumping after returning to solid ground, and you will see what <BR>
      > I mean.<BR>
      > <BR>
      > At any rate, what I'm getting at is that what Greg and Gene<BR>
      > are pointing to is a manner of working in space that seems<BR>
      > counter to the way our bodies and brains are generally set<BR>
      > up to work. What I wonder is - how much of a role does<BR>
      > disciplined imagination play in an 'on earth' experience<BR>
      > of space that makes objects in space referential to the<BR>
      > one who sees them? Does this disciplined imagination actually<BR>
      > change the workings of our physiology, such that the experience<BR>
      > moves out of the realm of imagination and rewrites our<BR>
      > physiological workings?<BR>
      > <BR>
      > I can certainly see that this is possible, having practiced<BR>
      > asana for some time. The mind and body fundamentally change.<BR>
      > It is a different relationship to gravity and space, and even<BR>
      > the objects in space.<BR>
      > <BR>
      > Lastly, there is another connection I want to draw out, and<BR>
      > that is something that Dona Holleman shared in an interview<BR>
      > (from the book "Eyes of Innocence", the complete interviews<BR>
      > taken for the documentary video "A Fish in Search of Water").<BR>
      > She speaks of how young flamenco dancers project energy<BR>
      > outwards and mature flamenco dancers consolidate energy within.<BR>
      > The movements of a mature flamenco dancer are 'of the mind',<BR>
      > directed from within, rather than expressed outward. It brings<BR>
      > to my mind a sense of compaction and 'central locus', that is<BR>
      > the same sense I have gotten from Greg and Gene's description<BR>
      > of 'moving space around me'. Awesome!<BR>
      > <BR>
      > This 'consolidation of energy' may be observed in those who<BR>
      > have practiced asana to a degree of proficiency. The coorinated<BR>
      > effort is so efficient as to create a movement that is... nearly<BR>
      > non-movement. Certainly, it changes one's relation to gravity<BR>
      > and space, or perhaps, it merely removes one's obstacles to<BR>
      > 'understanding' gravity and space.<BR>
      > <BR>
      > Dona Holleman describes, also, how brilliant Douglas Fairbanks<BR>
      > was in his movements, in the movie Zorro, for instance. She<BR>
      > describes how most people have a 'center of gravity' that<BR>
      > resides in the upper chest and that the lower body 'dangles'<BR>
      > from this. However, Douglas Fairbanks seemed to have his center<BR>
      > of gravity directly between his ankles, and his body projected<BR>
      > upward and outward from this place, in some surprisingly<BR>
      > 'impossible' ways. (Zorro was long before the stunts of<BR>
      > the Matrix, but there is a definite relation - and Fairbanks<BR>
      > was performing his 'stunts' without cables and computer<BR>
      > animation.) However, his energy was still consolidated -<BR>
      > it simply moved a moment before his physical body.<BR>
      > <BR>
      > This really highlights the role of the imagination in<BR>
      > navigation. Essentially, Douglas Fairbanks was putting his<BR>
      > mind one step before his body - and his body was being sucked,<BR>
      > vacuum-like, into the space created by his mind!<BR>
      > <BR>
      > I stumbled across this function on my own a while back. <BR>
      > I noticed I had 'impressions' and 'images'<BR>
      > of my limbs being in other places in the space around me.<BR>
      > So, I followed those impression/images... precisely filling <BR>
      > the space created by those impression/images with my limbs.<BR>
      > It took me through various positions, and into some strange<BR>
      > contortions, which I recognized months later on a poster<BR>
      > of hundreds of asanas as advanced yoga asanas. Some of those<BR>
      > positions are places I have not been able to return to,<BR>
      > despite what I know now about the techniques of asana.<BR>
      > It is remarkable to me how the mind creates and limits<BR>
      > possibility.<BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > Thanks for bearing with me in this incredibly long and<BR>
      > chaotic message. It was nice to spit it all out without<BR>
      > trying to organize it.<BR>
      > <BR>
      > Nina<BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Goode <BR>
      > <goode@d...> wrote:<BR>
      > > I've done this with people, and it really works.� It goes against <BR>
      > the grain of belief, and it can help dissolve the grip of belief.<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > People feel limited partly because they feel like they are in the <BR>
      > body.� They feel like, "I'm RIGHT HERE."� This is the feeling of <BR>
      > being localized.� Part of this is because of muscular contractions, <BR>
      > and part is related to beliefs about the physical structure of the <BR>
      > body and the notion of the little humunculus supposedly directing <BR>
      > things from within.<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > But there are several ways to experience things differently, and <BR>
      > begin to see through and dissolve the assumptions of physical <BR>
      > structure notion.<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > You can see this through movement.� <BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > Through movement, you can see that you never move.� <BR>
      > (snip)<BR>


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