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12297Re: No Thoughts Are Brilliant

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  • medit8ionsociety
    Dec 17, 2003
      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, endofthedream@y...
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
      > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > Dear Bob ~
      > > Sitting in meditation and witnessing your body, emotions,
      > > or whatever, eventually realization of a moment between the
      > > occurs.
      > *****In that moment, you are not. ;-)
      > > When in the thoughts, you are either drawn toward or going
      > > away from the objects of your thoughts. All the chasing after or
      > > running away from these things leads to an infinity of
      > > mind chatter.
      > *****If you mean "in" thoughts as in "sucked into believing them,"
      > then yes, what you state is true.

      Of course.

      However, if you are equating "when
      > in the thoughts" with "being in the presence of thoughts," this is
      > not necessarily so. In my experience, (and I speak ONLY for Andy,
      > one else), there is *no* problem with thoughts or their objects.
      > is there chasing or running away from them. They are seen,
      > receding ... just there, like the weather. Sure, some mornings, I
      > get up, look at the stormy sky, a bitter cold wintery day, and find
      > disinclination to going outside in such inclement weather. But
      > is just another thought, another story. Appropriate clothing is
      > selected and the journey outside is taken. (Or I crawl back under
      > the covers and call in sick! Hahaha!!!) Sure, there is a sting! of
      > discomfort when the wife offers a sharp word to me. However, in
      > watching, any stories, tales, or spinning out from what happened
      > (some words were articulated, that is all) just does not happen.
      > horizontal involvement in 'the play' gets cut off, even in the
      > of the thoughts ('She's such a bitch' or whatever).

      Well, actually this seems to be is a good example of not just "being
      in the presence of thoughts," but being caught up in them.
      > > The space between your thoughts is where brilliance is
      > > found. Brilliance as in light, and brilliance as in wisdom. The
      > > brilliance between thoughts is the experience of the infinite
      > > transcendent of thought.
      > *****Yes, it is peace, of a sort. But not one that is very useful,
      > in my opinion.

      You think so? I don't:-)

      > Most of our 'conscious' life is navigated in the
      > presence of thoughts. Until they are experienced to be empty,
      > one can 'ride' them with no upset, the work is not done. Thoughts
      > are not ~ and have never been ~ the "problem." It is the
      > in them that causes upset, disrupts the equanimity. Even the
      > thought "I am to die tomorrow," need not cause upset. It is, after
      > all, just a thought. It is not the dying (which is either to come
      > not to come, at a later moment).
      > It is all well and good to experience peace, serentiy, even
      > brilliance!, while engaged in formal sitting. It certainly has
      > (a lot! for some folks). But the persistent value of meditation is
      > that it may allow this Seeing to be carried off of the cushion,
      > the workplace, the family, the world. And that entails being
      > serenely WITH the thoughts that bombard us throughout our day, not
      > escaping from them in the silence between them.
      > ~andy

      Dear Andyji,
      You know how when you're in a movie theater and the movie is playing,
      and you are aware of what's going on, but you know it's a movie;
      well, that's about what thoughts about "stuff" is. But it's rare to
      not get caught up in the plot if the characters play their parts
      convincingly. As a matter of fact, here in the movie houses in
      Philly, the audience often talks back to the characters on the
      screen, and have even been known to shoot their guns at them. And
      like the audiences here, most people (99.99999%) find there isn't
      any "serenity WITH the thoughts" in their 'real life'. The space
      between the thoughts is the only thing that is "persistent", and
      can "be carried off of the cushion, into the workplace, the family,
      the world." The space between the thoughts isthe ocean from which the
      waves peak and subside, and not just an "escape".
      Anyway, these are just thoughts...(and what is between them):-)
      Peace and blessings,
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