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11805Re: [Meditation Society of America] apperception? Sandeep

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  • Sandeep
    Dec 1, 2003
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      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 12:08 PM
      Subject: [Meditation Society of America] apperception? Sandeep




      Hi Sandeep:

      I will see if I understand you. 

      Nothing needs to be considered as good or bad action because any action is taken simply as the result of the gestalt or deposit of actions that lead to it.  It is completely impersonal.  There is noone to do it, it just happens because of the Matrix so to speak.
      The term Matrix has now taken a dramatic hue, thanks to the movie, but decades back, the holographic nature of movement was reached by fundamental Science.
       
      I think it was in the 70s, that Bell came up with his theorem of Non-Locality.
       
      If you are somewhat scientifically inclined, have a look at "Upanashids, Bell Theorem, Holographic Universe" at
       
       
      and "The Holographic Universe" at
       
       
       
      Things happen as they happen in the moment,...........whether at the Univsersal/cosmic level,....global, national, communal, societal, individual, molecular, sub-ionic levels, ..............because the Universe is the way it is,........ in THAT moment.
       
      Every cause is a Universal cause, every effect is a Universal effect.
       
      "Pulla a blade of grass and shale the Universe."
       
      There is no " independent individual self",......... doing anything.
       
      Something, which can be easily investigated and seen.
       
      Take any action, (which could be a thought, a choosing among thoughts, aka a decision, or a physical action),
       
      .........about which you are conpletely and totally convinced was a result of Bobby's independent volition,.....
       
      ....and unravel it to ascertain just what independent volition got excercised in that event.
       
       


      The conditioning in the moment.

      To explain something is to live out your karma to explain.  To kill another is to live out the cultural deposit that led to the killing.  This takes ethics out of the realm of the "real".
       
      Yes.
      If I AM, .................is all there was,..............all there is,...............is all that there is to be,.......
       
      ..........then I have to be,......both the sinner and the saint, in simultaneous time, .........isn't it?
      If I AM the Primordial cause and I am the phenomenal effect of that primordial cause,.......
       
      .......then it can either be said, that all karmas are mine,...............or.................there is nothing like karmas.
       
      While the popular connotation of the term "karma" is fate,.........it is actually means action.
       


      If I got that much right, then I will try to go a little further.  There is apperception (of the moment to moment?) or there is not.  It does not affect the events as they unfold.  Do whatever you are moved to.
       
      Indeed.
      And this can be easily ascertained, as suggested above.


      Events unfold, Motivation is moot
       
      Yes, ........including the unfolding of an appearance, which is hell-bent motivated to search for the cure of AIDS virus, or the artist, which throws a dozen painted canvases away, searching for that "the" expressioning.
       
       
       
      and apperception does not hinge upon it.
       
      The term apperception, is just another term, as conceptual as any.
       
      It connotes the perceiving WITHOUT a "perceiver" thereof.
       

      I have added my phrases to see if I am on the right track with understanding you.
      :-)
       

      >
      > >
      > > At some point the concept can be seen as such, and meditation is not
      > > hindered by it.
      >
      >
      > Meditation which is "hinderable" or which is "enhanceable:,.............is a technique,.............not meditation.
      >
      > The state of meditation, is really the end of the concept of meditation,......and thus the end of the "meditator".
      >
      > It is thus not dependant on ideation, any ideation, any conceptualization, (Zennic or Buddhist or Advaitic or Bhakti)....is not dependant on.....time, ........surrounding environ, ........place, .........or eventings which are happening in the moment.

      I think you are saying here that meditation is the "natural state".  With meditation there are no concepts or conceiver; just the state of meditation.
      Yes.
       
      And since naturalness is already the case, you cannot become what you already are.
       
      Which does not preclude having fun with the particular techniques of meditation.
       
      In playfulness, ............which then does not serve to enact the same old game, i.e. a "means" to some "end".
       
       


      Actually that is what I was referring to in my remark.

      E. said "1. The concept of escaping the chain of causation
      > > > > > is a motivation for living an ethical life." 

      And I responded that at some point the concept can be seen as such, perceived as a concept, and then meditation is not hindered by it.

      I hope you will let me know if I am on the right track.
       
      :-)
       
      Try out the investigation and share what arose in that unravelling,.......
       
      ......if you are moved to, ofcourse<LOL>
       
       
       
       
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