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Re: A few comments on biaural stimulation

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  • Jeffrey S. Brooks
    Hello David, and thank-you for posting your most interesting experiment on this listserve. Inherent in your record is an assumption that deeper levels of
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 1, 2008
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      Hello David, and thank-you for posting your most interesting
      experiment on this listserve. Inherent in your record is an
      assumption that deeper levels of absorption produce lower brainwaves.
      However, since not a single researcher into meditation has yet
      established they understand meditative absorption, or that there
      subjects indeed exhibit meditative absorption, I do not believe we can
      presume there is such a correlation until that basic link is established.

      Kindest regards, Jeff Brooks
    • David
      ... established. ... Thanks as always Jeff for checking my logic, I do sometimes still make faulty calls in my research and it is always helpful to have
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 6, 2008
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        --- In meditation_research@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey S. Brooks"
        <jhanananda@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello David, and thank-you for posting your most interesting
        > experiment on this listserve. Inherent in your record is an
        > assumption that deeper levels of absorption produce lower brainwaves.
        > However, since not a single researcher into meditation has yet
        > established they understand meditative absorption, or that there
        > subjects indeed exhibit meditative absorption, I do not believe we can
        > presume there is such a correlation until that basic link is
        established.
        >
        > Kindest regards, Jeff Brooks
        >
        Thanks as always Jeff for checking my logic, I do sometimes still
        make faulty calls in my research and it is always helpful to have
        someone intelligent and scientifically trained critique my theories.

        In this case to support of the premise that meditation can create
        lower brainwaves I would start by citing 4 sources.

        1)The infamous Ken Wilber video. If Ken constructed the machine
        correctly, and I suspect he did since he is a genius(from what I can
        tell; and much more intelligent than myself) then the machine showed
        many various types of lower brainwaves.

        2)Swami Rama's interaction with the Menninger Clinic where he displayed
        Theta brainwave production in meditation for an EEG machine, and lower.

        3)The Noetic institute's studies on Swami Veda(One of Swami Rama's
        disciples) where S.Veda showed delta brainwave generation during waking
        state.

        4)The relatively well known fact that certain 'epileptic seizures'
        generates various ecstasies rather than pain. These particular
        temporal love seizures generates brainwave spike frequencies of 3Hz,
        which is in the Delta band range, very low, and aside from then almost
        exclusively seen in deeper sleep states

        I also think that it is also the case that increased alpha wave
        coherence can generate very deep relaxation. Also increased gamma
        frequencies(30Hz+) increase and broaden across the surface of the
        brain, which I believe account for the humming sound we hear,(dibba
        sota?).

        It seems to me that they are many orthogonal phenomena occuring here
        in tandem.

        -David Whitehouse
      • Jeffrey S. Brooks
        Hello David, it is good to know that you are interested in keeping your research model rigorous. 1) Please do not forget that we have already reviewed the
        Message 3 of 4 , Jan 7, 2008
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          Hello David, it is good to know that you are interested in keeping
          your research model rigorous.

          1) Please do not forget that we have already reviewed the infamous Ken
          Wilber video and found that he clearly just paused the video at points
          in the video where the randomly moving display of his simple EEG
          device produced data that he thought the audience would think he was
          doing something useful in his meditation. He too apparently presumed
          that lower brainwaves equals success in meditation; however, do not
          forget no one has yet to establish the connection between skillful
          meditation practice and brainwaves. And, I should also remind you
          that only the GWV has clearly established the characteristics of
          skillful meditation through our literature search of the record of the
          experience of the mystics and compared that description to a community
          of rigorous contemplatives who manifest many of the characteristic
          phenomena that was reported by key mystics.

          2) Also, if you recall we have already reviewed Swami Rama and
          rejected him as a reliable source of information regarding the
          practice of meditation for a number of reasons. First, he claimed he
          did a few decades of meditation practice and got nothing out of it.
          Then, he claimed he got "enlightened" through shaktipat, then he
          reported that once he was a guru he was too busy pandering to his
          devotees to continue to engage in communion with the sacred through
          meditation.

          Regarding the pseudo science that was conducted upon Swami Rama at the
          Menninger Clinic: We found that they did not have a technician who had
          experience with the precise measurement of temperature to monitor the
          tests with Swami Rama. And, for the above reasons, any data that the
          Menninger Clinic acquired with the subject Swami Rama is thus meaningless.

          3) I do not recall The Noetic institute's studies on Swami Veda, but
          if they have yet to establish what the characteristics of absorption
          are, then their research into it is meaningless. If you have the link
          for the paper I would be happy to review it unless that was already
          done here.

          4) Yes, I recall we discussed a type of 'epileptic seizures' that is
          associated with manifesting characteristics that are similar to
          absorption, but since absorption has been inadequately explored that
          association cannot be made at this time.

          In conclusion until the historical research into the phenomena that is
          associated with absorption has been done and accepted, then correlated
          with a group of case histories, then those subjects examined with fMRI
          and EEG no research into the phenomena of successful meditation is
          valid, and any conjectures about the biology of skillful meditation
          are purely speculative.

          Kindest regards, Jeff Brooks
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