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Re: an introduction and question(s)

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  • Tracey
    Hi Jeffrey, I have been enjoying the group. I have a couple of questions: I have been an intuitive for as long as I can remember -- however I have had many
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 1, 2006
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      Hi Jeffrey,
      I have been enjoying the group. I have a couple of questions: I have been an intuitive for as long as I can remember -- however I have had many traumatic experiences, especially during OBE's. So, this has put a shield of fear up -- how can I break this shield, but still feel safe?
       
      Also, many times I will see a video screen of sorts -- I know what this is, but everytime I see it, I try to concentrate on it with my physical eyes *beneath closed lids* and then right away will lose the 'video'. Can you tell me a way I might can avoid trying to concentrate with my physical eyes, and instead use my 3rd eye, so that I may stay intuned with my vision?
       
      Thanks for your time and help.
       
      Tracey
    • Bruce P
      hi eva, thought this might interest you, it has helped me spiritually though it does take a lot of work and i don t have time for it lately. bruce Lucid
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 1, 2006
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        hi eva,
         
        thought this might interest you, it has helped me spiritually though it does take a lot of work and i don't have time for it lately.
         
        bruce
         

        Lucid dreaming

        Jump to: navigation, search
         
        Wikibooks
        Wikibooks has more about this subject:
        Lucid dreaming is the conscious perception of one's state while dreaming, resulting in a much clearer ("lucid") experience and usually enabling direct control over the content of the dream.[1] The complete experience from start to finish is called a lucid dream. Stephen LaBerge, a popular author and experimenter on the subject, has defined it as "dreaming while knowing that you are dreaming."[2]
        LaBerge and his associates have called people who purposely explore the possibilities of lucid dreaming oneironauts (literally from the Greek meaning "dream explorers"). The topic attracts the attention of a diverse and eclectic group, namely psychologists, self-help authors, New Age groups, mystics, occultists, and artists. This list is by no means exhaustive nor does interest in lucid dreaming apply necessarily to each group.
        Lucid dreamers regularly describe their dreams as exciting, colourful, and fantastic. Many compare it to a spiritual experience and say that it changed their lives or their perception of the world. Some have even reported lucid dreams that take on a hyperreality, seemingly "more real than real", where all the elements of reality are amplified. Lucid dreams are prodigiously more memorable than other kinds of dreaming, even nightmares, which may be why they are often prescribed as a means of ridding one's self of troubling dreams.
        Although clear and consistent knowledge is difficult to find among the many interpretations of the experience — especially considering its highly subjective nature — the validity of lucid dreaming as a scientifically verified phenomenon is well-established. It may be classified as a protoscience, pending an increase in scientific knowledge about the subject. Researchers such as Allan Hobson with his neurophysiological approach to dreaming have helped to push the understanding of lucid dreaming into a less speculative realm.

        maria_ave13 <maria_ave13@...> wrote:
        Dear Jeffrey,

        Thank you for your reply.

        I do appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions.

        I have had OOBEs while dreaming, that I have verified in some
        instances (seen people i know, next day told them what they were
        wearing, doing). However, these experiences usually are "non-aware",
        meaning at the time of the dream I am not usually conscious that it
        is an OOBE, only upon waking do I have the realization. I did not
        know one could achieve this through meditation. I have however,
        attempted to maintain mental awareness while falling asleep, through
        following the breath. I managed to 'get out' a few times but was
        startled by the sound of my own breathing-very loud- and got right
        back in.
        Is this practice worth pursuing, in your opinion, or is it
        a 'detour'? My interest is in spiritual development.

        Also, to remove the subliminal inhibition-- is this something I
        can do myself?

        Namaste
        Eva

        --- In meditation_research @yahoogroups. com, Jeffrey Brooks
        <jhanananda@ ...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Eva, and welcome to meditation_research . Since
        > you asked for some simple instruction in meditation,
        > let me first say that almost everyone in the
        > meditation world talks about practice, but very few
        > talk about attainment. Meditation instruction that is
        > not within the context of attainment, is nothing more
        > than a useless devotional. Faith and devotion without
        > an understanding of attainment is how the religions
        > continue their business of bilking the billions out of
        > trillions to keep a pompous and pretentious priesthood
        > in robes.
        >
        > The GWV offers a fairly comprehensive no=BS collection
        > of essays on both the practice of meditation and its
        > attainments or fruits. You can find that archive at
        > this URL
        >
        > The Great Western Vehicle Archive on Gnosis, Jhana,
        > Samadhi, Kundalini, Ecstatic Meditation
        > (Jhana/Samadhi) and Ecstatic Buddhism
        > http://www.greatwes ternvehicle. org/jhanaarticle s.htm
        >
        > With respect to the experiences in meditation that you
        > mentioned that you sit for an hour in meditation and
        > you are not aware of what happens. This could easily
        > be day-dreaming, especially when you say you've been
        > falling asleep. However, these are also symptoms of
        > meditative absorption, which is the primary fruit of
        > attainment of meditation.
        >
        > The fact that you state that you "go into a state with
        > lots of visuals" and, you reported after your first
        > yoga class, during the rest pose you experienced a
        > state of seeing "very beautiful drifty purple and gold
        > clouds" then I am inclined to believe that you are a
        > sensitive and your meditations are probably regularly
        > taking you into the 4th stage of absorption (samadhi).
        > After the 4th stage of absorption we enter into a
        > non-physical dimension of absorption states, which are
        > very sleep-like, so the body often begins to nod. I
        > would recommend at that time you try meditating lying
        > down and see where it takes you.
        >
        > If you can successfully negotiate the boundary of the
        > non-physical dimensions then you are likely to first
        > begin to experience out-of-body travel, which is also
        > called the OOB. After the OOB, if you do not get too
        > enthralled by it, then you will move into about 5
        > stages of non-material meditative absorption
        > (samadhi).
        >
        > It is most unfortunate that your yoga instructor
        > placed a subliminal instruction in your mind to avoid
        > this phenomena, so if you want to enter the
        > nonphysical you will have to remove that subliminal
        > instruction. Your teacher's reaction is typical of
        > how much ignorance, delusion and doubt there is among
        > meditation teachers. This is why we have begun this
        > research project to prove that meditative absorption
        > has value, and it is measurable.
        >
        > Jhanasamyutta (SN 34)
        > "Therein, bhikkhus, a contemplative who is skilled
        > both in meditation that leads to meditative absorption
        > (samadhi) and in the attainment of meditative
        > absorption (samadhi) is the chief, the best, the
        > foremost, the highest, the most excellent of…
        > meditators."
        > (Bodhi, Bhikkhu trans., Samyutta Nikaya Wisdom, 2000,
        > Page 1034)
        >
        > Jeffrey S, Brooks (Jhanananda)
        > the Great Western Vehicle
        > PO Box 41795
        > Tucson, AZ 85717-1795
        > http://www.greatwes ternvehicle. org/index. html
        > (((((((((((( ((o)))))) ))))))))) )
        >
        > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail. yahoo.com
        >




         
         
        Love,
        Bruce Pastor
        Safe in the light that surrounds me
         


         


        Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business.

      • Jhanananda
        Hello Eva, since you have reported spontaneous OOBs, then it is very possible that you are a sensitive, which is a good thing. Both Patanjali and the Buddha
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 1, 2006
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          Hello Eva, since you have reported spontaneous OOBs, then it is very
          possible that you are a sensitive, which is a good thing. Both Patanjali and
          the Buddha described OOBs in great detail, and they both said that OOBs are
          simply fruits (phala) of the contemplative life. As a contemplative I too
          have found OOBs and experience them every night. I believe one need not
          turn them into a practice, but simply accept that they are a naturally
          occurring phenomena of the contemplative life. Thus, I have found that one
          need only lead a contemplative life to find OOBs emerging naturally.

          The subliminal programming that your poorly trained meditation teacher left
          in your head: the contemplative life is about purifying the mind of all of
          the subliminal programming that we have received from many different
          sources. It is best not to keep adding to the heap, but to winnow it away
          through the skilful practice of meditation.

          Jhanasamyutta, SN 34
          "Therein, bhikkhus, a contemplative who is skilled both in meditation that
          leads to meditative absorption (jhana) and in the attainment of meditative
          absorption (jhana) is the chief, the best, the foremost, the highest, the
          most excellent of these four kinds of meditators."
          (Bodhi, Bhikkhu trans., Samyutta Nikaya Wisdom, 2000)

          The contemplative Jeffrey S, Brooks
          (Jhananda)
          the Great Western Vehicle
          PO Box 41795
          Tucson, AZ 85717
          http://www.becomepeace.org/

          (((((((((((((((((((0))))))))))))))))))))
        • maria_ave13
          Thank you Bruce, I do find that interesting. I just knew I found the right place when I saw this group listing :) Everyone has been so kind. I m going to look
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 1, 2006
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            Thank you Bruce, I do find that interesting. I just knew I found the
            right place when I saw this group listing :) Everyone has been so
            kind. I'm going to look over all this information, slowly, so I can
            absorb it.

            Namaste
            Eva


            -- In meditation_research@yahoogroups.com, Bruce P <dipper888bp@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > hi eva,
            >
            > thought this might interest you, it has helped me spiritually
            though it does take a lot of work and i don't have time for it
            lately.
            >
            > bruce
            >
            > Lucid dreaming
            > Jump to: navigation, search
            >
            >
            >
            > Wikibooks has more about this subject: Lucid Dreaming
            >
            >
            > Lucid dreaming is the conscious perception of one's state while
            dreaming, resulting in a much clearer ("lucid") experience and
            usually enabling direct control over the content of the dream.[1]
            The complete experience from start to finish is called a lucid
            dream. Stephen LaBerge, a popular author and experimenter on the
            subject, has defined it as "dreaming while knowing that you are
            dreaming."[2]
            > LaBerge and his associates have called people who purposely
            explore the possibilities of lucid dreaming oneironauts (literally
            from the Greek meaning "dream explorers"). The topic attracts the
            attention of a diverse and eclectic group, namely psychologists,
            self-help authors, New Age groups, mystics, occultists, and artists.
            This list is by no means exhaustive nor does interest in lucid
            dreaming apply necessarily to each group.
            > Lucid dreamers regularly describe their dreams as exciting,
            colourful, and fantastic. Many compare it to a spiritual experience
            and say that it changed their lives or their perception of the
            world. Some have even reported lucid dreams that take on a
            hyperreality, seemingly "more real than real", where all the
            elements of reality are amplified. Lucid dreams are prodigiously
            more memorable than other kinds of dreaming, even nightmares, which
            may be why they are often prescribed as a means of ridding one's
            self of troubling dreams.
            > Although clear and consistent knowledge is difficult to find
            among the many interpretations of the experience — especially
            considering its highly subjective nature — the validity of lucid
            dreaming as a scientifically verified phenomenon is well-
            established. It may be classified as a protoscience, pending an
            increase in scientific knowledge about the subject. Researchers such
            as Allan Hobson with his neurophysiological approach to dreaming
            have helped to push the understanding of lucid dreaming into a less
            speculative realm.
            >
            > maria_ave13 <maria_ave13@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear Jeffrey,
            >
            > Thank you for your reply.
            >
            > I do appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions.
            >
            > I have had OOBEs while dreaming, that I have verified in some
            > instances (seen people i know, next day told them what they were
            > wearing, doing). However, these experiences usually are "non-
            aware",
            > meaning at the time of the dream I am not usually conscious that
            it
            > is an OOBE, only upon waking do I have the realization. I did not
            > know one could achieve this through meditation. I have however,
            > attempted to maintain mental awareness while falling asleep,
            through
            > following the breath. I managed to 'get out' a few times but was
            > startled by the sound of my own breathing-very loud- and got right
            > back in.
            > Is this practice worth pursuing, in your opinion, or is it
            > a 'detour'? My interest is in spiritual development.
            >
            > Also, to remove the subliminal inhibition--is this something I
            > can do myself?
            >
            > Namaste
            > Eva
            >
            > --- In meditation_research@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Brooks
            > <jhanananda@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello Eva, and welcome to meditation_research. Since
            > > you asked for some simple instruction in meditation,
            > > let me first say that almost everyone in the
            > > meditation world talks about practice, but very few
            > > talk about attainment. Meditation instruction that is
            > > not within the context of attainment, is nothing more
            > > than a useless devotional. Faith and devotion without
            > > an understanding of attainment is how the religions
            > > continue their business of bilking the billions out of
            > > trillions to keep a pompous and pretentious priesthood
            > > in robes.
            > >
            > > The GWV offers a fairly comprehensive no=BS collection
            > > of essays on both the practice of meditation and its
            > > attainments or fruits. You can find that archive at
            > > this URL
            > >
            > > The Great Western Vehicle Archive on Gnosis, Jhana,
            > > Samadhi, Kundalini, Ecstatic Meditation
            > > (Jhana/Samadhi) and Ecstatic Buddhism
            > > http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/jhanaarticles.htm
            > >
            > > With respect to the experiences in meditation that you
            > > mentioned that you sit for an hour in meditation and
            > > you are not aware of what happens. This could easily
            > > be day-dreaming, especially when you say you've been
            > > falling asleep. However, these are also symptoms of
            > > meditative absorption, which is the primary fruit of
            > > attainment of meditation.
            > >
            > > The fact that you state that you "go into a state with
            > > lots of visuals" and, you reported after your first
            > > yoga class, during the rest pose you experienced a
            > > state of seeing "very beautiful drifty purple and gold
            > > clouds" then I am inclined to believe that you are a
            > > sensitive and your meditations are probably regularly
            > > taking you into the 4th stage of absorption (samadhi).
            > > After the 4th stage of absorption we enter into a
            > > non-physical dimension of absorption states, which are
            > > very sleep-like, so the body often begins to nod. I
            > > would recommend at that time you try meditating lying
            > > down and see where it takes you.
            > >
            > > If you can successfully negotiate the boundary of the
            > > non-physical dimensions then you are likely to first
            > > begin to experience out-of-body travel, which is also
            > > called the OOB. After the OOB, if you do not get too
            > > enthralled by it, then you will move into about 5
            > > stages of non-material meditative absorption
            > > (samadhi).
            > >
            > > It is most unfortunate that your yoga instructor
            > > placed a subliminal instruction in your mind to avoid
            > > this phenomena, so if you want to enter the
            > > nonphysical you will have to remove that subliminal
            > > instruction. Your teacher's reaction is typical of
            > > how much ignorance, delusion and doubt there is among
            > > meditation teachers. This is why we have begun this
            > > research project to prove that meditative absorption
            > > has value, and it is measurable.
            > >
            > > Jhanasamyutta (SN 34)
            > > "Therein, bhikkhus, a contemplative who is skilled
            > > both in meditation that leads to meditative absorption
            > > (samadhi) and in the attainment of meditative
            > > absorption (samadhi) is the chief, the best, the
            > > foremost, the highest, the most excellent of…
            > > meditators."
            > > (Bodhi, Bhikkhu trans., Samyutta Nikaya Wisdom, 2000,
            > > Page 1034)
            > >
            > > Jeffrey S, Brooks (Jhanananda)
            > > the Great Western Vehicle
            > > PO Box 41795
            > > Tucson, AZ 85717-1795
            > > http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/index.html
            > > ((((((((((((((o))))))))))))))))
            > >
            > > __________________________________________________
            > > Do You Yahoo!?
            > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > > http://mail.yahoo.com
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Love,
            > Bruce Pastor
            >
            > Safe in the light that surrounds me
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo!
            Small Business.
            >
          • maria_ave13
            Thanks Jeffrey, I ll contemplate what you ve said :) I feel a lot better about my meditations now, I was very confused trying to sort it all out. Letting go of
            Message 5 of 18 , Sep 1, 2006
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              Thanks Jeffrey,

              I'll contemplate what you've said :) I feel a lot better about
              my meditations now, I was very confused trying to sort it all out.
              Letting go of all programming seems right, as well as letting things
              happen in their own time.

              Namaste
              Eva


              --- In meditation_research@yahoogroups.com, Jhanananda
              <jhanananda@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Eva, since you have reported spontaneous OOBs, then it is
              very
              > possible that you are a sensitive, which is a good thing. Both
              Patanjali and
              > the Buddha described OOBs in great detail, and they both said that
              OOBs are
              > simply fruits (phala) of the contemplative life. As a
              contemplative I too
              > have found OOBs and experience them every night. I believe one
              need not
              > turn them into a practice, but simply accept that they are a
              naturally
              > occurring phenomena of the contemplative life. Thus, I have found
              that one
              > need only lead a contemplative life to find OOBs emerging
              naturally.
              >
              > The subliminal programming that your poorly trained meditation
              teacher left
              > in your head: the contemplative life is about purifying the mind
              of all of
              > the subliminal programming that we have received from many
              different
              > sources. It is best not to keep adding to the heap, but to winnow
              it away
              > through the skilful practice of meditation.
              >
              > Jhanasamyutta, SN 34
              > "Therein, bhikkhus, a contemplative who is skilled both in
              meditation that
              > leads to meditative absorption (jhana) and in the attainment of
              meditative
              > absorption (jhana) is the chief, the best, the foremost, the
              highest, the
              > most excellent of these four kinds of meditators."
              > (Bodhi, Bhikkhu trans., Samyutta Nikaya Wisdom, 2000)
              >
              > The contemplative Jeffrey S, Brooks
              > (Jhananda)
              > the Great Western Vehicle
              > PO Box 41795
              > Tucson, AZ 85717
              > http://www.becomepeace.org/
              >
              > (((((((((((((((((((0))))))))))))))))))))
              >
            • mohamed sayi
              peace to you, my name is mohamed sayid sufi, i am a seeker, a wisdom lover and a spirtual hermit. my aim in life are philosphical enquiry and experiencing the
              Message 6 of 18 , Sep 2, 2006
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                peace to you,

                my name is mohamed sayid sufi, i am a seeker, a wisdom lover
                and a spirtual hermit. my aim in life are philosphical enquiry and experiencing the divine through sincere compassion and mystical unity with the divine.

                i am born from a sunni moslem family but one day as i was contemplating in a sufi grave yard shrine near our home in india, i saw a powerful figure dressed in white with an exremely mystical Aura around Him. he smiled at me gently and He said to me " i have shosen you to be mine, go then and seek me all in that is good within you and within all religions. this your sole pilgrimage in life, go then and be blessed". i said to the amazing figure that spoke to me " who are you Master" and He smilingly replied, "i am Jesus Christ, the Divine Wisdom and I was in your school quotations as well as in your music".

                that experience took place 11 years ago when i was still a teenager but it is
                very fresh today as if it took place five minutes ago! i then started a life-long
                pilgrimage to seek knowldge and divine experience through all that which is
                good, including music. i do meditate occasionally but my meditation is different
                in that, in it i observe the temporariness of all and the unknowability of the existence...

                hope to learn from you,

                moha, the seeker...



                maria_ave13 <maria_ave13@...> wrote:
                Thanks Jeffrey,

                I'll contemplate what you've said :) I feel a lot better about
                my meditations now, I was very confused trying to sort it all out.
                Letting go of all programming seems right, as well as letting things
                happen in their own time.

                Namaste
                Eva

                --- In meditation_research @yahoogroups. com, Jhanananda
                <jhanananda@ ...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Eva, since you have reported spontaneous OOBs, then it is
                very
                > possible that you are a sensitive, which is a good thing. Both
                Patanjali and
                > the Buddha described OOBs in great detail, and they both said that
                OOBs are
                > simply fruits (phala) of the contemplative life. As a
                contemplative I too
                > have found OOBs and experience them every night. I believe one
                need not
                > turn them into a practice, but simply accept that they are a
                naturally
                > occurring phenomena of the contemplative life. Thus, I have found
                that one
                > need only lead a contemplative life to find OOBs emerging
                naturally.
                >
                > The subliminal programming that your poorly trained meditation
                teacher left
                > in your head: the contemplative life is about purifying the mind
                of all of
                > the subliminal programming that we have received from many
                different
                > sources. It is best not to keep adding to the heap, but to winnow
                it away
                > through the skilful practice of meditation.
                >
                > Jhanasamyutta, SN 34
                > "Therein, bhikkhus, a contemplative who is skilled both in
                meditation that
                > leads to meditative absorption (jhana) and in the attainment of
                meditative
                > absorption (jhana) is the chief, the best, the foremost, the
                highest, the
                > most excellent of these four kinds of meditators."
                > (Bodhi, Bhikkhu trans., Samyutta Nikaya Wisdom, 2000)
                >
                > The contemplative Jeffrey S, Brooks
                > (Jhananda)
                > the Great Western Vehicle
                > PO Box 41795
                > Tucson, AZ 85717
                > http://www.becomepe ace.org/
                >
                > (((((((((((( (((((((0) ))))))))) ))))))))) )
                >



                Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

              • mohamed sayi
                hello, Both music and visual beauty are the same thing in essence as far as we are concerned. They have the ability to hit the deepest nature of our being
                Message 7 of 18 , Sep 2, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  hello,

                  Both music and visual beauty are the same thing in essence as far as we are concerned. They have the ability to hit the deepest nature of our being and make us resonate with it that means harmonise at a set frequency of things – to be in resonance – like a tuned capacitor.
                   
                  Why do we think that so many mystics come to write poetry?  For it is both words and rhythm in unison – meaning and music in one slingshot.  It reaches parts that mere prose cannot reach.  I have watched people weeping when they read deep poems – and try keeping a dry eye when writing them!  We are made of stuff which resonates with the function of the cosmic order of things and the reason for its existence.  This is not magic – it is just the magic of the way things are – ultimate magic.  Go with the flow of anything which takes you home to your SELF.  And when you know YOU then you will know that which is not YOU, and as to why it all exists.  Why do people weep in the face of exquisite beauty?  Because we recognize something from home – an essence from eternity and the ground of being. And thus it is found to be.
                   
                   
                   


                  maria_ave13 <maria_ave13@...> wrote:
                  Thank you Bruce, I do find that interesting. I just knew I found the
                  right place when I saw this group listing :) Everyone has been so
                  kind. I'm going to look over all this information, slowly, so I can
                  absorb it.

                  Namaste
                  Eva

                  -- In meditation_research @yahoogroups. com, Bruce P <dipper888bp@ ...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > hi eva,
                  >
                  > thought this might interest you, it has helped me spiritually
                  though it does take a lot of work and i don't have time for it
                  lately.
                  >
                  > bruce
                  >
                  > Lucid dreaming
                  > Jump to: navigation, search
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Wikibooks has more about this subject: Lucid Dreaming
                  >
                  >
                  > Lucid dreaming is the conscious perception of one's state while
                  dreaming, resulting in a much clearer ("lucid") experience and
                  usually enabling direct control over the content of the dream.[1]
                  The complete experience from start to finish is called a lucid
                  dream. Stephen LaBerge, a popular author and experimenter on the
                  subject, has defined it as "dreaming while knowing that you are
                  dreaming."[2]
                  > LaBerge and his associates have called people who purposely
                  explore the possibilities of lucid dreaming oneironauts (literally
                  from the Greek meaning "dream explorers"). The topic attracts the
                  attention of a diverse and eclectic group, namely psychologists,
                  self-help authors, New Age groups, mystics, occultists, and artists.
                  This list is by no means exhaustive nor does interest in lucid
                  dreaming apply necessarily to each group.
                  > Lucid dreamers regularly describe their dreams as exciting,
                  colourful, and fantastic. Many compare it to a spiritual experience
                  and say that it changed their lives or their perception of the
                  world. Some have even reported lucid dreams that take on a
                  hyperreality, seemingly "more real than real", where all the
                  elements of reality are amplified. Lucid dreams are prodigiously
                  more memorable than other kinds of dreaming, even nightmares, which
                  may be why they are often prescribed as a means of ridding one's
                  self of troubling dreams.
                  > Although clear and consistent knowledge is difficult to find
                  among the many interpretations of the experience — especially
                  considering its highly subjective nature — the validity of lucid
                  dreaming as a scientifically verified phenomenon is well-
                  established. It may be classified as a protoscience, pending an
                  increase in scientific knowledge about the subject. Researchers such
                  as Allan Hobson with his neurophysiological approach to dreaming
                  have helped to push the understanding of lucid dreaming into a less
                  speculative realm.
                  >
                  > maria_ave13 <maria_ave13@ ...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear Jeffrey,
                  >
                  > Thank you for your reply.
                  >
                  > I do appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions.
                  >
                  > I have had OOBEs while dreaming, that I have verified in some
                  > instances (seen people i know, next day told them what they were
                  > wearing, doing). However, these experiences usually are "non-
                  aware",
                  > meaning at the time of the dream I am not usually conscious that
                  it
                  > is an OOBE, only upon waking do I have the realization. I did not
                  > know one could achieve this through meditation. I have however,
                  > attempted to maintain mental awareness while falling asleep,
                  through
                  > following the breath. I managed to 'get out' a few times but was
                  > startled by the sound of my own breathing-very loud- and got right
                  > back in.
                  > Is this practice worth pursuing, in your opinion, or is it
                  > a 'detour'? My interest is in spiritual development.
                  >
                  > Also, to remove the subliminal inhibition-- is this something I
                  > can do myself?
                  >
                  > Namaste
                  > Eva
                  >
                  > --- In meditation_research @yahoogroups. com, Jeffrey Brooks
                  > <jhanananda@ > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello Eva, and welcome to meditation_research . Since
                  > > you asked for some simple instruction in meditation,
                  > > let me first say that almost everyone in the
                  > > meditation world talks about practice, but very few
                  > > talk about attainment. Meditation instruction that is
                  > > not within the context of attainment, is nothing more
                  > > than a useless devotional. Faith and devotion without
                  > > an understanding of attainment is how the religions
                  > > continue their business of bilking the billions out of
                  > > trillions to keep a pompous and pretentious priesthood
                  > > in robes.
                  > >
                  > > The GWV offers a fairly comprehensive no=BS collection
                  > > of essays on both the practice of meditation and its
                  > > attainments or fruits. You can find that archive at
                  > > this URL
                  > >
                  > > The Great Western Vehicle Archive on Gnosis, Jhana,
                  > > Samadhi, Kundalini, Ecstatic Meditation
                  > > (Jhana/Samadhi) and Ecstatic Buddhism
                  > > http://www.greatwes ternvehicle. org/jhanaarticle s.htm
                  > >
                  > > With respect to the experiences in meditation that you
                  > > mentioned that you sit for an hour in meditation and
                  > > you are not aware of what happens. This could easily
                  > > be day-dreaming, especially when you say you've been
                  > > falling asleep. However, these are also symptoms of
                  > > meditative absorption, which is the primary fruit of
                  > > attainment of meditation.
                  > >
                  > > The fact that you state that you "go into a state with
                  > > lots of visuals" and, you reported after your first
                  > > yoga class, during the rest pose you experienced a
                  > > state of seeing "very beautiful drifty purple and gold
                  > > clouds" then I am inclined to believe that you are a
                  > > sensitive and your meditations are probably regularly
                  > > taking you into the 4th stage of absorption (samadhi).
                  > > After the 4th stage of absorption we enter into a
                  > > non-physical dimension of absorption states, which are
                  > > very sleep-like, so the body often begins to nod. I
                  > > would recommend at that time you try meditating lying
                  > > down and see where it takes you.
                  > >
                  > > If you can successfully negotiate the boundary of the
                  > > non-physical dimensions then you are likely to first
                  > > begin to experience out-of-body travel, which is also
                  > > called the OOB. After the OOB, if you do not get too
                  > > enthralled by it, then you will move into about 5
                  > > stages of non-material meditative absorption
                  > > (samadhi).
                  > >
                  > > It is most unfortunate that your yoga instructor
                  > > placed a subliminal instruction in your mind to avoid
                  > > this phenomena, so if you want to enter the
                  > > nonphysical you will have to remove that subliminal
                  > > instruction. Your teacher's reaction is typical of
                  > > how much ignorance, delusion and doubt there is among
                  > > meditation teachers. This is why we have begun this
                  > > research project to prove that meditative absorption
                  > > has value, and it is measurable.
                  > >
                  > > Jhanasamyutta (SN 34)
                  > > "Therein, bhikkhus, a contemplative who is skilled
                  > > both in meditation that leads to meditative absorption
                  > > (samadhi) and in the attainment of meditative
                  > > absorption (samadhi) is the chief, the best, the
                  > > foremost, the highest, the most excellent of…
                  > > meditators."
                  > > (Bodhi, Bhikkhu trans., Samyutta Nikaya Wisdom, 2000,
                  > > Page 1034)
                  > >
                  > > Jeffrey S, Brooks (Jhanananda)
                  > > the Great Western Vehicle
                  > > PO Box 41795
                  > > Tucson, AZ 85717-1795
                  > > http://www.greatwes ternvehicle. org/index. html
                  > > (((((((((((( ((o)))))) ))))))))) )
                  > >
                  > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                  > > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Love,
                  > Bruce Pastor
                  >
                  > Safe in the light that surrounds me
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                  > Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo!
                  Small Business.
                  >



                  Do you Yahoo!?
                  Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.

                • Jhanananda
                  Hello Tracey, and friends, we typically handle the questions regarding charismatic phenomena and the practice of meditation on our other lists, the Jhana
                  Message 8 of 18 , Sep 2, 2006
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                    Hello Tracey, and friends, we typically handle the questions regarding
                    charismatic phenomena and the practice of meditation on our other lists, the
                    Jhana Support Group, and kundaliniheat. You can find those lists at these
                    URL:

                    Jhana Support Group
                    A dialog support group for ecstatic contemplatives in a Buddhist context
                    website http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jhanas/
                    Subscribe: Jhanas-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    Kundaliniheat
                    A dialog support group for the ecstatic experience in a Yoga and Shamanic
                    context
                    website http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kundaliniheat/
                    Subscribe: kundaliniheat-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    This list is supposed to be about scientific enquiry into meditation and its
                    associated phenomena. However, OOBs, and meditative absorption states are
                    what the GWV is interested in studying, so it seems reasonable to field
                    questions regarding that phenomena here.

                    Many contemplatives who begin to experience OOBs often find them
                    frightening, especially at first. I believe one of the main reasons why we
                    find the OOB frightening is because we are often too identified with the
                    body, and, since an OOB is traveling out-of-body, the experience can be
                    death-like and thus frightening. Additionally, often during sojourns
                    out-of-body we may encounter ghosts, and demons. These encounters can be
                    quite frightening. Thus the OOB can certainly be an aspect of the dark
                    night of the soul, or descent into hell.

                    The dark night of the soul, or descent into hell can be so frightening that
                    early encounters with them can completely turn people off to the practice of
                    meditation, which produces them, and the phenomena of meditation, which they
                    are a part of. This is why we really should seek the guidance of a genuine
                    meditation master, because a genuine meditation master would have had a
                    great deal of personal experience with this and other charismatic phenomena.

                    If you search the archives of the jhana support group for the phrase 'dark
                    night of the soul' you will find that it is a common topic for us there.
                    You may find the following post from that group of interest:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jhanas/message/10274

                    The GWV archives also has several essays on the subject of the dark night of
                    the soul. You may find these essays of use:

                    Commitment as a Refuge, Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhism (January 1, 2003)
                    http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/commitment.htm

                    Understanding the Unwholesome States, The Darkness of the Dark Night
                    http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/unwholesome.htm

                    Virtue, Understanding What is a Wholesome State
                    http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/virtue.htm

                    Jhana and the Houses of God, Flooding the Dark Night of the Soul with
                    Wholesome States
                    http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/jhana&brhamaviharas.htm

                    Regarding your question about seeing something in your meditation that
                    appears like a "video screen:" We humans are very occupied with the sense
                    of seeing, perhaps more than any other sense. The cultivation of meditative
                    absorption requires that we pull ourselves away from the sensory phenomena
                    and bring our awareness inside. People often find this task rather
                    daunting, however, in the visual field we have the ability to defocus. You
                    could try "defocusing" on the internal visual plane to see if that helps
                    you. For more on this subject you may find the following essays of
                    interest:

                    Random Reflections Upon Field Meditation During a Solo Wilderness Retreat,
                    2005
                    http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/fieldmeditation.htm

                    The use of the Visual Meditation Object, Kasina (April 5, 2004)
                    http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/kasina.htm

                    Using the Moon as a visual meditation object, Kasina (August 11, 2004)
                    http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/kasinamoon.htm

                    Dark Night of the Soul, John of the Cross (pg 61 p 2).
                    ³The first purgation of the night is bitter and terrible to senseŠfor it is
                    horrible and awfulŠ²
                    Dark Night of the Soul, by St. John of the Cross (1542-1591) translated by
                    E. Allison Peers, Image Books, Garden City, New York, 3rd addition, 1959

                    Jeffrey S, Brooks
                    (Jhananda)
                    the Great Western Vehicle
                    PO Box 41795
                    Tucson, AZ 85717
                    http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/

                    (((((((((((((((((((0))))))))))))))))))))
                  • hridaya ishaya
                    thanks mohamed, beautiful description and i relate to it a lot. when someone shares an experience of the Divine in whichever way, it enlivens that experience
                    Message 9 of 18 , Sep 4, 2006
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                      thanks mohamed, beautiful description and i relate to it a lot. when someone shares an experience of the Divine in whichever way, it enlivens that experience in myself.
                       
                      hridaya


                      True Happiness lies within you.
                      Discover it!
                      www.ishaya.org
                      www.ishaya.com.mx
                       




                      To: meditation_research@yahoogroups.com
                      From: mohamedsayi@...
                      Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 09:00:54 -0700
                      Subject: [meditation_research] Beauty, music & mystical experience

                      hello,

                      Both music and visual beauty are the same thing in essence as far as we are concerned. They have the ability to hit the deepest nature of our being and make us resonate with it that means harmonise at a set frequency of things – to be in resonance – like a tuned capacitor.
                       
                      Why do we think that so many mystics come to write poetry?  For it is both words and rhythm in unison – meaning and music in one slingshot.  It reaches parts that mere prose cannot reach.  I have watched people weeping when they read deep poems – and try keeping a dry eye when writing them!  We are made of stuff which resonates with the function of the cosmic order of things and the reason for its existence.  This is not magic – it is just the magic of the way things are – ultimate magic.  Go with the flow of anything which takes you home to your SELF.  And when you know YOU then you will know that which is not YOU, and as to why it all exists.  Why do people weep in the face of exquisite beauty?  Because we recognize something from home – an essence from eternity and the ground of being. And thus it is found to be.
                       
                       
                       


                      maria_ave13 <maria_ave13@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                      Thank you Bruce, I do find that interesting. I just knew I found the
                      right place when I saw this group listing :) Everyone has been so
                      kind. I'm going to look over all this information, slowly, so I can
                      absorb it.

                      Namaste
                      Eva

                      -- In meditation_research @yahoogroups. com, Bruce P <dipper888bp@ ...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > hi eva,
                      >
                      > thought this might interest you, it has helped me spiritually
                      though it does take a lot of work and i don't have time for it
                      lately.
                      >
                      > bruce
                      >
                      > Lucid dreaming
                      > Jump to: navigation, search
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Wikibooks has more about this subject: Lucid Dreaming
                      >
                      >
                      > Lucid dreaming is the conscious perception of one's state while
                      dreaming, resulting in a much clearer ("lucid") experience and
                      usually enabling direct control over the content of the dream.[1]
                      The complete experience from start to finish is called a lucid
                      dream. Stephen LaBerge, a popular author and experimenter on the
                      subject, has defined it as "dreaming while knowing that you are
                      dreaming."[2]
                      > LaBerge and his associates have called people who purposely
                      explore the possibilities of lucid dreaming oneironauts (literally
                      from the Greek meaning "dream explorers"). The topic attracts the
                      attention of a diverse and eclectic group, namely psychologists,
                      self-help authors, New Age groups, mystics, occultists, and artists.
                      This list is by no means exhaustive nor does interest in lucid
                      dreaming apply necessarily to each group.
                      > Lucid dreamers regularly describe their dreams as exciting,
                      colourful, and fantastic. Many compare it to a spiritual experience
                      and say that it changed their lives or their perception of the
                      world. Some have even reported lucid dreams that take on a
                      hyperreality, seemingly "more real than real", where all the
                      elements of reality are amplified. Lucid dreams are prodigiously
                      more memorable than other kinds of dreaming, even nightmares, which
                      may be why they are often prescribed as a means of ridding one's
                      self of troubling dreams.
                      > Although clear and consistent knowledge is difficult to find
                      among the many interpretations of the experience — especially
                      considering its highly subjective nature — the validity of lucid
                      dreaming as a scientifically verified phenomenon is well-
                      established. It may be classified as a protoscience, pending an
                      increase in scientific knowledge about the subject. Researchers such
                      as Allan Hobson with his neurophysiological approach to dreaming
                      have helped to push the understanding of lucid dreaming into a less
                      speculative realm.
                      >
                      > maria_ave13 <maria_ave13@ ...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Dear Jeffrey,
                      >
                      > Thank you for your reply.
                      >
                      > I do appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions.
                      >
                      > I have had OOBEs while dreaming, that I have verified in some
                      > instances (seen people i know, next day told them what they were
                      > wearing, doing). However, these experiences usually are "non-
                      aware",
                      > meaning at the time of the dream I am not usually conscious that
                      it
                      > is an OOBE, only upon waking do I have the realization. I did not
                      > know one could achieve this through meditation. I have however,
                      > attempted to maintain mental awareness while falling asleep,
                      through
                      > following the breath. I managed to 'get out' a few times but was
                      > startled by the sound of my own breathing-very loud- and got right
                      > back in.
                      > Is this practice worth pursuing, in your opinion, or is it
                      > a 'detour'? My interest is in spiritual development.
                      >
                      > Also, to remove the subliminal inhibition-- is this something I
                      > can do myself?
                      >
                      > Namaste
                      > Eva
                      >
                      > --- In meditation_research @yahoogroups. com, Jeffrey Brooks
                      > <jhanananda@ > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello Eva, and welcome to meditation_research . Since
                      > > you asked for some simple instruction in meditation,
                      > > let me first say that almost everyone in the
                      > > meditation world talks about practice, but very few
                      > > talk about attainment. Meditation instruction that is
                      > > not within the context of attainment, is nothing more
                      > > than a useless devotional. Faith and devotion without
                      > > an understanding of attainment is how the religions
                      > > continue their business of bilking the billions out of
                      > > trillions to keep a pompous and pretentious priesthood
                      > > in robes.
                      > >
                      > > The GWV offers a fairly comprehensive no=BS collection
                      > > of essays on both the practice of meditation and its
                      > > attainments or fruits. You can find that archive at
                      > > this URL
                      > >
                      > > The Great Western Vehicle Archive on Gnosis, Jhana,
                      > > Samadhi, Kundalini, Ecstatic Meditation
                      > > (Jhana/Samadhi) and Ecstatic Buddhism
                      > > http://www.greatwes ternvehicle. org/jhanaarticle s.htm
                      > >
                      > > With respect to the experiences in meditation that you
                      > > mentioned that you sit for an hour in meditation and
                      > > you are not aware of what happens. This could easily
                      > > be day-dreaming, especially when you say you've been
                      > > falling asleep. However, these are also symptoms of
                      > > meditative absorption, which is the primary fruit of
                      > > attainment of meditation.
                      > >
                      > > The fact that you state that you "go into a state with
                      > > lots of visuals" and, you reported after your first
                      > > yoga class, during the rest pose you experienced a
                      > > state of seeing "very beautiful drifty purple and gold
                      > > clouds" then I am inclined to believe that you are a
                      > > sensitive and your meditations are probably regularly
                      > > taking you into the 4th stage of absorption (samadhi).
                      > > After the 4th stage of absorption we enter into a
                      > > non-physical dimension of absorption states, which are
                      > > very sleep-like, so the body often begins to nod. I
                      > > would recommend at that time you try meditating lying
                      > > down and see where it takes you.
                      > >
                      > > If you can successfully negotiate the boundary of the
                      > > non-physical dimensions then you are likely to first
                      > > begin to experience out-of-body travel, which is also
                      > > called the OOB. After the OOB, if you do not get too
                      > > enthralled by it, then you will move into about 5
                      > > stages of non-material meditative absorption
                      > > (samadhi).
                      > >
                      > > It is most unfortunate that your yoga instructor
                      > > placed a subliminal instruction in your mind to avoid
                      > > this phenomena, so if you want to enter the
                      > > nonphysical you will have to remove that subliminal
                      > > instruction. Your teacher's reaction is typical of
                      > > how much ignorance, delusion and doubt there is among
                      > > meditation teachers. This is why we have begun this
                      > > research project to prove that meditative absorption
                      > > has value, and it is measurable.
                      > >
                      > > Jhanasamyutta (SN 34)
                      > > "Therein, bhikkhus, a contemplative who is skilled
                      > > both in meditation that leads to meditative absorption
                      > > (samadhi) and in the attainment of meditative
                      > > absorption (samadhi) is the chief, the best, the
                      > > foremost, the highest, the most excellent of…
                      > > meditators."
                      > > (Bodhi, Bhikkhu trans., Samyutta Nikaya Wisdom, 2000,
                      > > Page 1034)
                      > >
                      > > Jeffrey S, Brooks (Jhanananda)
                      > > the Great Western Vehicle
                      > > PO Box 41795
                      > > Tucson, AZ 85717-1795
                      > > http://www.greatwes ternvehicle. org/index. html
                      > > (((((((((((( ((o)))))) ))))))))) )
                      > >
                      > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                      > > Do You Yahoo!?
                      > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Love,
                      > Bruce Pastor
                      >
                      > Safe in the light that surrounds me
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                      > Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo!
                      Small Business.
                      >



                      Do you Yahoo!?
                      Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.




                      Get the new Windows Live Messenger! Try it!
                    • Jhanananda
                      Hello friends and welcome to moha, the seeker... and the 23 other new members of this list. Thank-you Moha for sharing with us your incredible story of
                      Message 10 of 18 , Sep 5, 2006
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                        Hello friends and welcome to "moha, the seeker..." and the 23 other new
                        members of this list. Thank-you Moha for sharing with us your incredible
                        story of communion with Jesus. While the mainstream public, as well as the
                        scientific community often greets these kinds of stories with a great deal
                        of skepticism, since members of the GWV have been researching the phenomena
                        of meditative absorption for decades, we have found stories, like Moha's are
                        quite commonplace among the contemplative community who has found meditative
                        absorption.

                        Communion with the divine is what meditative absorption is. And, we have
                        found people from all walks of life experience meditative absorption. Even
                        a few priests and monks and nuns. It seems however, most of those who
                        experience meditative absorption are middle-aged house-wives. Why is this?
                        Because, since very often the kids have grown up, they have the time to
                        engage in a contemplative life.

                        One would think that monks and nuns would be the most likely to experience
                        meditation absorption, However, we find they are very often treated like
                        slaves by their order, and thus rarely have the time to meditate.

                        One would think priests would have experience with meditative absorption.
                        But, not often. Priests are very often too occupied with the management of
                        their temple and thus rarely have the opportunity to meditate.

                        People, like Moha, are often mistreated by the priesthood because the
                        priesthood looks bad when a teenager, or a middle-aged housewife develops
                        meditative absorption, and has communion with the sacred, when they
                        themselves rarely, if ever, have these experiences. This is why the
                        religions of man do not often understand meditative absorption.

                        People, like Moha, should be highly respected, and even revered members of
                        their community, however, if Moha has arrived here, then chances are he is
                        ignored by his religious community, as we have found is most often the case
                        for those who have arrived at meditative absorption.

                        It is interesting that in another message Moha mentioned beauty, music & the
                        mystical experiences. The Buddha spoke of 8 liberations (attha
                        vimokkha-mukha). The third of them is called ''By thinking of the
                        beautiful, one is filled with confidence: this is the 3rd liberation." (from
                        the Buddhist Dictionary, Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines, by
                        NYANATILOKA MAHATHERA)
                        http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/Pali/Nyanatiloka_Dictionary/ebidx.htm

                        MAHÂ-PARINIBBÂNA-SUTTANTA (DN 16)
                        aparihániya-dhamma: 'conditions of welfare'
                        The growth of the bhikkhus is to be expected, not their decline, bhikkhus,
                        so long as they cultivate the seven factors of enlightenment, that is:
                        mindfulness (sati), investigation into the way (dhamma-vicaya), energy
                        (viriya), bliss (piiti), tranquility (passaddhi), meditative absorption
                        (samadhi), and equanimity (upekkha). So long, bhikkhus, as these seven
                        conditions leading to welfare endure among the bhikkhus, and the bhikkhus
                        are known for it, their growth is to be expected, not their decline.
                        http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/1Digha-Nikaya
                        /Digha2/16-mahaparinibbana-e2.htm

                        Jeffrey S, Brooks
                        (Jhananda)
                        the Great Western Vehicle
                        PO Box 41795
                        Tucson, AZ 85717
                        http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/

                        (((((((((((((((((((0))))))))))))))))))))
                      • Nirodha (Bill Gray)
                        Hi Tracey, I don t know if the phenomena you re experiencing, in regards to the video screen, is similar to something I ve experienced off and on for several
                        Message 11 of 18 , Sep 6, 2006
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                          Hi Tracey,

                          I don't know if the phenomena you're experiencing, in regards to the
                          video screen, is similar to something I've experienced off and on for
                          several years, but I'll describe it none the less and perhaps other
                          can jump in, if they like:

                          Although I haven't had this happen lately, I went through a period
                          where I could literally see out of the back of my head while
                          meditating. It was really quite odd; I could see everything that was
                          in the room behind me almost as clear as if I were looking at it with
                          my physical eyes. I found that if I attempted to focus on the
                          phenomena that it would disappear in an instance. However, if I just
                          relaxed into it the vision got sharper.

                          While I suspected this ability was a precursor to remote viewing, or
                          perhaps a manifestation of an OBE, I really didn't pursue it as I
                          viewed it as a nuisance. I'm trying to realize the cessation of
                          perception and cognition, not enhance them, and this phenomena would
                          happen at what I felt were rather inconvenient times: There I was all
                          nice and relaxed, feeling a pleasantness in mind and body, and all of
                          a sudden I'm looking at the computer screen that's directly behind
                          me. That's not something I really want to do while I'm meditating as
                          I do enough of that as it is. ;)

                          Happiness and Ease to you all,
                          Nirodha (Bill Gray)



                          --- In meditation_research@yahoogroups.com,
                          >
                          > Also, many times I will see a video screen of sorts -- I know what
                          this is, but everytime I see it, I try to concentrate on it with my
                          physical eyes *beneath closed lids* and then right away will lose the
                          'video'. Can you tell me a way I might can avoid trying to
                          concentrate with my physical eyes, and instead use my 3rd eye, so
                          that I may stay intuned with my vision?
                          >
                          > Thanks for your time and help.
                          >
                          > Tracey
                          >
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