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thin stock joints

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  • lambdakennels1@juno.com
    What is the best joint to use in small jewelry boxes with 1/4 thick walls? Is that too thin for dovetails, or will they still work? Lady Stephanie Lilburn
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 13, 2008
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      What is the best joint to use in small jewelry boxes with 1/4" thick walls?  Is that too thin for dovetails, or will they still work?

      Lady Stephanie Lilburn
      Stephanie Smith, Ph.D
      Hunt County, Texas
      Owned by a Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
      K5AMK


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    • Liedtke Goetz
      ... I would think the wood you re using is very important when thinking of how to work thin pieces of it. Some wood will be brittle and difficult to cut into
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 13, 2008
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        --- "lambdakennels1@..." <lambdakennels1@...> wrote:

        > What is the best joint to use in small jewelry boxes with 1/4" thick
        > walls? Is that too thin for dovetails, or will they still work?

        I would think the wood you're using is very important when thinking
        of how to work thin pieces of it. Some wood will be brittle and
        difficult to cut into dovetails at that thickness. Other wood will
        work nicely. A lap joint may be more suitable at that thickness.

        Goetz



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      • Bruce S. R. Lee
        Finger joints have a long and honorable history. Just about all Roman small boxes recovered use them (I only know of 2-3 ;-) ) They are also a good bit
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 13, 2008
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          Finger joints have a long and honorable history. Just about all
          'Roman' small boxes recovered use them (I only know of 2-3 ;-) ) They
          are also a good bit easier to make with modern machinery, but about
          as hard to cut with hand tools.

          The other method that I know of is to make plain mitre or butt joints
          (Swallowcliffe Down & Frank's Casket respectively) and have external
          metal corner reinforcements.

          regards
          Brusi of ORkney
          Rowany/Lochac


          At 10:47 AM 14/01/2008, you wrote:
          >What is the best joint to use in small jewelry boxes with 1/4" thick
          >walls? Is that too thin for dovetails, or will they still work?
          >
          >Lady Stephanie Lilburn
          >Stephanie Smith, Ph.D
          >Hunt County, Texas
          >Owned by a Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
          >K5AMK
        • Don Eisele
          I ve made dozens of boxes with 1/4 walls with box joints: (Here s a picture of some:) http://tengaicon.com/gallery/2006/boxes/0-dyed-8.jpg You can hide the
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 13, 2008
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            I've made dozens of boxes with 1/4" walls with box joints:

            (Here's a picture of some:)
            http://tengaicon.com/gallery/2006/boxes/0-dyed-8.jpg

            You can hide the joints afterwards if you don't want them to show:
            http://toysmakeuspowerful.com/woodenplunder/gallery/cardcase

            A friend has made some with mitered sides without a problem:
            http://customcardboxes.com/gallery/walnut_inlaid_mitered.png

            Which should be fine for something like a jewelry box that won't get a
            lot of abuse. You could also do a keyed miter to add some strength
            (and if you use contrasting wood, it can add visual impact)
            random google picture:
            http://www.shopsmithhandson.com/archives/mar_apr_03/html/weekend_project.htm

            As to dovetails, I don't really know. I've not done a lot of them.

            On Sun, Jan 13, 2008 at 11:47:53PM +0000, lambdakennels1@... did say:
            > What is the best joint to use in small jewelry boxes with 1/4" thick
            > walls? Is that too thin for dovetails, or will they still work?
            >
            > Lady Stephanie Lilburn
            > Stephanie Smith, Ph.D
            > Hunt County, Texas
            > Owned by a Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
            > K5AMK
            >
            > _____________________________________________________________
            > [1]Planning for retirement? Click for free information on 401(k) plans.
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            >References
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            > 3. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwODdkOHJ2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyMDA3MjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MjgzBG1zZ0lkAzk1MzAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjAwMjY4MTk0?act=reply&messageNum=9530
            > 4. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNzh2bzM4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyMDA3MjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MjgzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTIwMDI2ODE5NA--
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            > 22. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcjlrNWY0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyMDA3MjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MjgzBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyMDAyNjgxOTQ-
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            > 24. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMTdyYWxrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyMDA3MjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MjgzBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTIwMDI2ODE5NA--
            > 25. http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12j2l90dk/M=493064.12016259.12445666.9963301/D=groups/S=1705126283:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1200275394/A=5008816/R=0/SIG=10sulld0b/*http://starwars.yahoo.com/
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            > 27. http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12jhtn4tu/M=493064.12016262.12445669.8674578/D=groups/S=1705126283:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1200275394/A=5028928/R=0/SIG=11e3tma2a/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/moderatorcentral

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          • Rebekah d'Avignon
            You might want to consider finger joints. They supply more surface for glueing than butt joints. lambdakennels1@juno.com wrote:
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 14, 2008
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              You might want to consider finger joints. They supply more surface for glueing than butt joints.


              "lambdakennels1@..." <lambdakennels1@...> wrote:
              What is the best joint to use in small jewelry boxes with 1/4" thick walls?  Is that too thin for dovetails, or will they still work?

              Lady Stephanie Lilburn
              Stephanie Smith, Ph.D
              Hunt County, Texas
              Owned by a Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
              K5AMK


              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ____
              Planning for retirement? Click for free information on 401(k) plans.



              The dissatisfaction of the populace with any form of government takes one of two forms: First, people register their complaint at the ballot box and through petitions and demonstrations. When that doesn't work, dissatisfaction takes the form of mobs in the street with torches and pitchforks....adjusted for the current technology and availability, of course.


              Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

            • Bill McNutt
              I like box joints for that sort of work. Will _____ From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 14, 2008
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                I like box joints for that sort of work.

                 

                Will

                 


                From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of lambdakennels1@...
                Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 6:48 PM
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] thin stock joints

                 

                What is the best joint to use in small jewelry boxes with 1/4" thick walls?  Is that too thin for dovetails, or will they still work?

                Lady Stephanie Lilburn
                Stephanie Smith, Ph.D
                Hunt County , Texas
                Owned by a Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
                K5AMK


                ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ____
                Planning for retirement? Click for free information on 401(k) plans.

              • C N Schwartz
                Finger joints, pre-industrial? I m curious. I can see the advantage with a powered circular saw, but not with a handsaw. I ve found it harder to simulate
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 14, 2008
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                  Finger joints, pre-industrial?  I'm curious.  I can see the advantage with a powered circular saw, but not with a handsaw.  I've found it harder to simulate finger joints with a handsaw than to just go ahead and make mechanically superior dovetails.  I'd love to see Roman examples!
                   
                  As for the original question, you can make dovetail joints on stock that small.  How period it is is another argument.
                   
                   
                   
                   
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Bruce S. R. Lee
                  Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:33 AM
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] thin stock joints

                  Finger joints have a long and honorable history. Just about all
                  'Roman' small boxes recovered use them (I only know of 2-3 ;-) ) They
                  are also a good bit easier to make with modern machinery, but about
                  as hard to cut with hand tools.

                  The other method that I know of is to make plain mitre or butt joints
                  (Swallowcliffe Down & Frank's Casket respectively) and have external
                  metal corner reinforcements.

                  regards
                  Brusi of ORkney
                  Rowany/Lochac

                  At 10:47 AM 14/01/2008, you wrote:
                  >What is the best joint to use in small jewelry boxes with 1/4" thick
                  >walls? Is that too thin for dovetails, or will they still work?
                  >
                  >Lady Stephanie Lilburn
                  >Stephanie Smith, Ph.D
                  >Hunt County, Texas
                  >Owned by a Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
                  >K5AMK

                • julian wilson
                  C N Schwartz wrote: Finger joints, pre-industrial? I m curious. I can see the advantage with a powered circular saw, but not with a
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 14, 2008
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                    C N Schwartz <kjworz@...> wrote:
                    Finger joints, pre-industrial?  I'm curious.  I can see the advantage with a powered circular saw, but not with a handsaw.  I've found it harder to simulate finger joints with a handsaw than to just go ahead and make mechanically superior dovetails.  I'd love to see Roman examples!
                     
                    As for the original question, you can make dovetail joints on stock that small.  How period it is is another argument.
                     
                    COMMENT
                    In Volume 3 of the Archeological Report on the Wreck of the Mary Rose - "Before The Mast, &c" - when writing about the Barber Surgeon's Chest - the text comments that this chest is the earliest example of "dovetailing" which has been found on a British Site - since dovetailing was at the time thought to have been a continental joinery technique which hadn't reached England until much later than the date of the sinking.
                     The text suggests that the Barber Surgeon may have acquired a chest of continental make.
                    The closest 15th C technique previously identified in extant "English" objects had been simple "comb-joints".
                     
                    In Service to the Light, to our dream, and to Drachenwald,
                    Matthew Baker

                    .


                  • C N Schwartz
                    Is there a reference to comb joints in Before the Mast? I have a copy here. ... From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 14, 2008
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                      Is there a reference to comb joints in Before the Mast?  I have a copy here.
                       
                       
                       
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of julian wilson
                      Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 5:46 PM
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] thin stock joints

                      C N Schwartz <kjworz@comcast. net> wrote:
                      Finger joints, pre-industrial?  I'm curious.  I can see the advantage with a powered circular saw, but not with a handsaw.  I've found it harder to simulate finger joints with a handsaw than to just go ahead and make mechanically superior dovetails.  I'd love to see Roman examples!
                       
                      As for the original question, you can make dovetail joints on stock that small.  How period it is is another argument.
                       
                      COMMENT
                      In Volume 3 of the Archeological Report on the Wreck of the Mary Rose - "Before The Mast, &c" - when writing about the Barber Surgeon's Chest - the text comments that this chest is the earliest example of "dovetailing" which has been found on a British Site - since dovetailing was at the time thought to have been a continental joinery technique which hadn't reached England until much later than the date of the sinking.
                       The text suggests that the Barber Surgeon may have acquired a chest of continental make.
                      The closest 15th C technique previously identified in extant "English" objects had been simple "comb-joints" .
                       
                      In Service to the Light, to our dream, and to Drachenwald,
                      Matthew Baker

                      .


                    • Rebekah d'Avignon
                      Finger joints are easy if you are using a table router (almost too easy). They aren t that hard with hand tools - just make the fingers as wide as your chisel.
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 15, 2008
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                        Finger joints are easy if you are using a table router (almost too easy). They aren't that hard with hand tools - just make the fingers as wide as your chisel.


                        C N Schwartz <kjworz@...> wrote:
                        Finger joints, pre-industrial?  I'm curious.  I can see the advantage with a powered circular saw, but not with a handsaw.  I've found it harder to simulate finger joints with a handsaw than to just go ahead and make mechanically superior dovetails.  I'd love to see Roman examples!
                         
                        As for the original question, you can make dovetail joints on stock that small.  How period it is is another argument.
                        .




                        The dissatisfaction of the populace with any form of government takes one of two forms: First, people register their complaint at the ballot box and through petitions and demonstrations. When that doesn't work, dissatisfaction takes the form of mobs in the street with torches and pitchforks....adjusted for the current technology and availability, of course.


                        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                      • C N Schwartz
                        Yes, but if you are going to do that with chisel and handsaw, you might as well make dovetails, is what I m saying. It might be MORE work if you make as many
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jan 15, 2008
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                          Yes, but if you are going to do that with chisel and handsaw, you might as well make dovetails, is what I'm saying.  It might be MORE work if you make as many finger joints as are usually made with a machine.   
                           
                           
                           
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Rebekah d'Avignon
                          Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 7:41 AM
                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] thin stock joints

                          Finger joints are easy if you are using a table router (almost too easy). They aren't that hard with hand tools - just make the fingers as wide as your chisel.


                          C N Schwartz <kjworz@comcast. net> wrote:
                          Finger joints, pre-industrial?  I'm curious.  I can see the advantage with a powered circular saw, but not with a handsaw.  I've found it harder to simulate finger joints with a handsaw than to just go ahead and make mechanically superior dovetails.  I'd love to see Roman examples!
                           
                          As for the original question, you can make dovetail joints on stock that small.  How period it is is another argument.
                          .




                          The dissatisfaction of the populace with any form of government takes one of two forms: First, people register their complaint at the ballot box and through petitions and demonstrations. When that doesn't work, dissatisfaction takes the form of mobs in the street with torches and pitchforks.. ..adjusted for the current technology and availability, of course.


                          Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                        • Tracy Swanson
                          ... From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of C N Schwartz Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:04 PM To:
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jan 15, 2008
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                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of C N Schwartz
                            Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:04 PM
                            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] thin stock joints

                            Yes, but if you are going to do that with chisel and handsaw, you might as well make dovetails, is what I'm saying.  It might be MORE work if you make as many finger joints as are usually made with a machine.   
                             
                             
                            .

                              
                            A macaroni tool would make short work of it, simply use the size of the tool to dictate the size of the fingers.
                             
                            In Magical Service,
                            Malaki
                          • kirkdrago
                            I ve used both box and dovetails on 1/4 stock. If you ve never done dovetails, practice with box joints first. You can use a dado blade on a table saw or a
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jan 15, 2008
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                              I've used both box and dovetails on 1/4" stock. If you've never done
                              dovetails, practice with box joints first. You can use a dado blade
                              on a table saw or a straight router bit and a spacing jig. If you
                              really want to do a dovetail, use a router 1/2" dovetail bit and a
                              spacing jig till you get the feel of how they work.

                              Yours in sawdust,
                              Kirk Dragomani


                              >
                              > At 10:47 AM 14/01/2008, you wrote:
                              > >What is the best joint to use in small jewelry boxes with 1/4" thick
                              > >walls? Is that too thin for dovetails, or will they still work?
                              > >
                              > >Lady Stephanie Lilburn
                              > >Stephanie Smith, Ph.D
                              > >Hunt County, Texas
                              > >Owned by a Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
                              > >K5AMK
                              >
                            • John LaTorre
                              ... You know, there is one place where finger joints are easier to cut than dovetails, even for hand tools. That s where you are stacking a number of boards or
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jan 16, 2008
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                                "C N Schwartz" wrote:

                                >
                                >
                                > Yes, but if you are going to do that with chisel and handsaw, you might as
                                > well make dovetails, is what I'm saying. It might be MORE work if you make
                                > as many finger joints as are usually made with a machine.

                                You know, there is one place where finger joints are easier to cut than
                                dovetails, even for hand tools. That's where you are stacking a number
                                of boards or whatever and, using a miter-box type jig, cutting the
                                joints into several boards at a time. That wouldn't be possible for
                                dovetails, which are cut at an angle other than perpendicular.

                                --Johann von Drachenfels
                                West Kingdom
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