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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Robin Woods Tools

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  • Dave Calafrancesco - Yahoo
    Yes. We do use the same types of tools that Robin Wood uses. Their info can be found in the YAT books on Viking age woodworking. My books are still packed so
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 8, 2007
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      Yes. We do use the same types of tools that Robin Wood uses. Their info
      can be found in the YAT books on Viking age woodworking. My books are
      still packed so I'd have to Google the book to get you the ISBN details.

      The author of that book and the people I work with (Budgardr is our camp
      name at Pennsic) disagree on how to use the tools. We believe they used
      their hands and the deck of their lathes to support the tools. The
      author shows a very awkward style using a tool rest of dubious origins
      (it wasn't found near the wood working materials but in the weaving shed).

      To address the heart of the question, I don't believe the techniques we
      use would lend itself well to the stresses of a motor powered lathe. The
      techniques we use often require that we cut on the backside of the
      workpiece and that would be dangerous with a fast spinning powered
      piece. When one nervous system controls the spin power via your foot,
      the tool via your hands, then everything is working in tune.

      Now, this is not to say that hooked cutting surfaces aren't found in a
      power setting, but the angled end hook tools are not going to work well
      from a power tool/tool rest perspective, in my opinion. Just like
      scrapers don't work well at all on green wood on a spring pole lathe.

      Use power tool capable tools on your power lathe and spring pole capable
      tools on your spring pole lathe. A very few of the tools will be able to
      work in both environments (specifically those where the cutting edge
      profiles look similar when you hold them p to each other). As an
      example, the bowl gauge and roughing gauge when you look end on have a
      very similar cutting shape to the hook tools when you look end on to
      their cutting arc.

      It is also a real PITA to sharpen those hand made hook tools and I think
      the speed of a power lathe would negatively impact them and require lots
      more sharpening. There are wood miser modern circular cutter lathe tools
      designed to do nesting bowls that could probably be adapted to save your
      cores for a secondary bowl.

      Best of luck,
      Haraldr Bassi



      Bill Brown wrote:
      > 1^st question
      >
      >
      >
      > Does anyone on the list work with the same type hook tools that Robin
      > Wood from the UK works with? For any not familiar with him he has some
      > great videos on You Tube. One question in particular is the hook tool
      > that he uses to gouge the inner bowl out. Also can these same hook tools
      > be effective on a motorized lathe or are they specific to the pole lathe
      > setup he uses (reciprocating and low RPM). I am currently working on
      > learning to make goblets and cups and have gotten the hang of things
      > pretty good (thanks to 3 years of shop class in high school 20 years
      > ago.) and I am ready to turn bowls, I just hate to gouge out all the
      > wood in the center when I could just cut the core out and have the
      > makings for another smaller bowl.
      >
      >
      >
      > I do have a forge and have made some tools that work. My skill at the
      > forge is minimal but growing daily. My biggest question comes from the
      > shape of the tool and the bevel of the cutting edge.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > 2^nd question
      >
      > What angle is proper for the cutting edge bevel of a motorized lathe
      > tool vs pole lathe. Why?
      >
      >
      >
      > Will be positing some of my work soon for critique. Gotta figure out
      > this upload thing first.
      >
      >
      >
      > Domingos of Arenal
      >
      >
    • leaking pen
      having just been introduced to robins work, and hook tools, i have to try it first, but i disagree. when i was first introduced to lathe work, it reminded me
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 8, 2007
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        having just been introduced to robins work, and hook tools, i have to try it first, but i disagree.  when i was first introduced to lathe work, it reminded me of a pottery wheel.  and a lot of potters tools look just like the hook tools.  i think the back and forth vs circular force therefore shouldnt render the tools worthless, just require slightly different techniques.  i for one am going to forge myself some hook tools, for hand and lathe use.

        On Dec 8, 2007 2:07 PM, Dave Calafrancesco - Yahoo <yahoo@...> wrote:

        Yes. We do use the same types of tools that Robin Wood uses. Their info
        can be found in the YAT books on Viking age woodworking. My books are
        still packed so I'd have to Google the book to get you the ISBN details.

        The author of that book and the people I work with (Budgardr is our camp
        name at Pennsic) disagree on how to use the tools. We believe they used
        their hands and the deck of their lathes to support the tools. The
        author shows a very awkward style using a tool rest of dubious origins
        (it wasn't found near the wood working materials but in the weaving shed).

        To address the heart of the question, I don't believe the techniques we
        use would lend itself well to the stresses of a motor powered lathe. The
        techniques we use often require that we cut on the backside of the
        workpiece and that would be dangerous with a fast spinning powered
        piece. When one nervous system controls the spin power via your foot,
        the tool via your hands, then everything is working in tune.

        Now, this is not to say that hooked cutting surfaces aren't found in a
        power setting, but the angled end hook tools are not going to work well
        from a power tool/tool rest perspective, in my opinion. Just like
        scrapers don't work well at all on green wood on a spring pole lathe.

        Use power tool capable tools on your power lathe and spring pole capable
        tools on your spring pole lathe. A very few of the tools will be able to
        work in both environments (specifically those where the cutting edge
        profiles look similar when you hold them p to each other). As an
        example, the bowl gauge and roughing gauge when you look end on have a
        very similar cutting shape to the hook tools when you look end on to
        their cutting arc.

        It is also a real PITA to sharpen those hand made hook tools and I think
        the speed of a power lathe would negatively impact them and require lots
        more sharpening. There are wood miser modern circular cutter lathe tools
        designed to do nesting bowls that could probably be adapted to save your
        cores for a secondary bowl.

        Best of luck,
        Haraldr Bassi

        Bill Brown wrote:
        > 1^st question


        >
        >
        >
        > Does anyone on the list work with the same type hook tools that Robin
        > Wood from the UK works with? For any not familiar with him he has some
        > great videos on You Tube. One question in particular is the hook tool
        > that he uses to gouge the inner bowl out. Also can these same hook tools
        > be effective on a motorized lathe or are they specific to the pole lathe
        > setup he uses (reciprocating and low RPM). I am currently working on
        > learning to make goblets and cups and have gotten the hang of things
        > pretty good (thanks to 3 years of shop class in high school 20 years
        > ago.) and I am ready to turn bowls, I just hate to gouge out all the
        > wood in the center when I could just cut the core out and have the
        > makings for another smaller bowl.
        >
        >
        >
        > I do have a forge and have made some tools that work. My skill at the
        > forge is minimal but growing daily. My biggest question comes from the
        > shape of the tool and the bevel of the cutting edge.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > 2^nd question

        >
        > What angle is proper for the cutting edge bevel of a motorized lathe
        > tool vs pole lathe. Why?
        >
        >
        >
        > Will be positing some of my work soon for critique. Gotta figure out
        > this upload thing first.
        >
        >
        >
        > Domingos of Arenal
        >
        >



        --
        That which yields isn't always weak.
      • Ralph Lindberg
        While I have never done business with them, a friend recommends http://www.hiltonhandcraft.com/ (note, visit with MS Explorer, I ve had issues visiting their
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 9, 2007
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          While I have never done business with them, a friend recommends
          http://www.hiltonhandcraft.com/ (note, visit with MS Explorer, I've
          had issues visiting their site with any other browser)

          TTFN
          Ralg
          AnTir
        • Ralph Lindberg
          ... Are you talking about Wood and Woodworking in Anglo-Scandinavian and Medieval York ? ... camp ... shed). ... The tool rest shown in the book I
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 9, 2007
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            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Dave Calafrancesco - Yahoo
            <yahoo@...> wrote:
            >
            > Yes. We do use the same types of tools that Robin Wood uses. Their info
            > can be found in the YAT books on Viking age woodworking. My books are
            > still packed so I'd have to Google the book to get you the ISBN details.
            >

            Are you talking about "Wood and Woodworking in Anglo-Scandinavian
            and Medieval York"?

            > The author of that book and the people I work with (Budgardr is our
            camp
            > name at Pennsic) disagree on how to use the tools. We believe they used
            > their hands and the deck of their lathes to support the tools. The
            > author shows a very awkward style using a tool rest of dubious origins
            > (it wasn't found near the wood working materials but in the weaving
            shed).
            >
            The "tool rest" shown in the book I referenced is just plan wacky. I
            also had to laugh at her marveling at the skill of the woodworkers.
            based on the lack of spoiled bowl-blanks. Why I laughed was because
            they got rid of theirs the same way I do, they burn them as fire wood.

            Ralg
            AnTir
          • Ralph Lindberg
            ... to try it ... just like ... I tend to agree, technique and tool position should handle the effort. ... My understanding, from doing a far amount of
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 9, 2007
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              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "leaking pen" <itsatrap@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > having just been introduced to robins work, and hook tools, i have
              to try it
              > first, but i disagree. when i was first introduced to lathe work, it
              > reminded me of a pottery wheel. and a lot of potters tools look
              just like
              > the hook tools. i think the back and forth vs circular force therefore
              > shouldnt render the tools worthless, just require slightly different
              > techniques.

              I tend to agree, technique and tool position should handle the effort.

              > i for one am going to forge myself some hook tools, for hand
              > and lathe use.
              >
              My understanding, from doing a far amount of arm-chair research, that
              concrete nails work well for that.

              TTFN
              Ralg
              AnTir
            • Ralph Lindberg
              To see someone (a fellow I know) making hook chisel for use on his power lathe, see
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 9, 2007
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                To see someone (a fellow I know) making hook chisel for use on his
                power lathe, see
                http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=turning&Number=3318635&fpart=&PHPSESSID=

                TTFN
                Ralg
                AnTir
              • Dave Calafrancesco - Yahoo
                ... Yup. ... Yeah. She really stretches in order to force a tool rest when none of the illuminations I ve found showed one. That s not to say they don t
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 15, 2007
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                  Ralph Lindberg wrote:
                  > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Dave Calafrancesco - Yahoo
                  > <yahoo@...> wrote:
                  >> Yes. We do use the same types of tools that Robin Wood uses. Their info
                  >> can be found in the YAT books on Viking age woodworking. My books are
                  >> still packed so I'd have to Google the book to get you the ISBN details.
                  >>
                  >
                  > Are you talking about "Wood and Woodworking in Anglo-Scandinavian
                  > and Medieval York"?

                  Yup.

                  >
                  >> The author of that book and the people I work with (Budgardr is our
                  > camp
                  >> name at Pennsic) disagree on how to use the tools. We believe they used
                  >> their hands and the deck of their lathes to support the tools. The
                  >> author shows a very awkward style using a tool rest of dubious origins
                  >> (it wasn't found near the wood working materials but in the weaving
                  > shed).
                  > The "tool rest" shown in the book I referenced is just plan wacky. I
                  > also had to laugh at her marveling at the skill of the woodworkers.
                  > based on the lack of spoiled bowl-blanks. Why I laughed was because
                  > they got rid of theirs the same way I do, they burn them as fire wood.


                  Yeah. She really stretches in order to force a tool rest when none of
                  the illuminations I've found showed one. That's not to say they don't
                  support a tool, I've used lots of different tool supports over the
                  years. Often looking like just a scrap block of wood of the correct
                  height to hold the tool at the position I desire or the tool rest that
                  lives at the end of my left arm that I carry with me everywhere.

                  I'm not so sure about whether they burned the botched bowl blanks, that
                  would be a lot of green wood to throw into a fire. They certainly would
                  have known how poorly wet green wood burns. After all, they tossed the
                  cores from the bowls into the midden instead of burning them. The cores
                  would have been drier than the botched blank would have been, yet they
                  ended up in the middens by the hundreds (perhaps thousands). I'm more
                  inclined to believe that a botched bowl blank is more likely to be
                  turned into a smaller bowl or a cup. Yet there is still a surprising
                  lack of severely broken cups and bowls with intact cores.

                  I suspect that the technique of starting the rough work in the field and
                  bringing the semi-completed work back to the village allowed for dumping
                  the detritus where it didn't stand a chance of discovery. It also means
                  having to transport back from the woods only viable bowl blanks instead
                  of the other 30-50% of the tree that isn't a bowl waiting to be discovered.

                  Haraldr Bassi
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