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Robin Woods Tools

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  • Bill Brown
    1st question Does anyone on the list work with the same type hook tools that Robin Wood from the UK works with? For any not familiar with him he has some great
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 7, 2007
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      1st question

       

      Does anyone on the list work with the same type hook tools that Robin Wood from the UK works with? For any not familiar with him he has some great videos on You Tube. One question in particular is the hook tool that he uses to gouge the inner bowl out. Also can these same hook tools be effective on a motorized lathe or are they specific to the pole lathe setup he uses (reciprocating and low RPM). I am currently working on learning to make goblets and cups and have gotten the hang of things pretty good (thanks to 3 years of shop class in high school 20 years ago.) and I am ready to turn bowls, I just hate to gouge out all the wood in the center when I could just cut the core out and have the makings for another smaller bowl.

       

      I do have a forge and have made some tools that work. My skill at the forge is minimal but growing daily. My biggest question comes from the shape of the tool and the bevel of the cutting edge.

       

       

      2nd question

      What angle is proper for the cutting edge bevel of a motorized lathe tool vs pole lathe. Why?

       

      Will be positing some of my work soon for critique. Gotta figure out this upload thing first.

       

      Domingos of Arenal

    • leaking pen
      speaking of that last part, anyone who needs some hosting space for photos, as long as you arent tossing them all over, i have a couple websites i can upload
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 7, 2007
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        speaking of that last part, anyone who needs some hosting space for photos, as long as you arent tossing them all over, i have a couple websites i can upload things too.  just email me the files, and ill get you a link in a day or so.

        On 12/7/07, Bill Brown <stickbow@...> wrote:

        1st question

         

        Does anyone on the list work with the same type hook tools that Robin Wood from the UK works with? For any not familiar with him he has some great videos on You Tube. One question in particular is the hook tool that he uses to gouge the inner bowl out. Also can these same hook tools be effective on a motorized lathe or are they specific to the pole lathe setup he uses (reciprocating and low RPM). I am currently working on learning to make goblets and cups and have gotten the hang of things pretty good (thanks to 3 years of shop class in high school 20 years ago.) and I am ready to turn bowls, I just hate to gouge out all the wood in the center when I could just cut the core out and have the makings for another smaller bowl.

         

        I do have a forge and have made some tools that work. My skill at the forge is minimal but growing daily. My biggest question comes from the shape of the tool and the bevel of the cutting edge.

         

         

        2nd question

        What angle is proper for the cutting edge bevel of a motorized lathe tool vs pole lathe. Why?

         

        Will be positing some of my work soon for critique. Gotta figure out this upload thing first.

         

        Domingos of Arenal




        --
        That which yields isn't always weak.
      • Dave Calafrancesco - Yahoo
        Yes. We do use the same types of tools that Robin Wood uses. Their info can be found in the YAT books on Viking age woodworking. My books are still packed so
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 8, 2007
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          Yes. We do use the same types of tools that Robin Wood uses. Their info
          can be found in the YAT books on Viking age woodworking. My books are
          still packed so I'd have to Google the book to get you the ISBN details.

          The author of that book and the people I work with (Budgardr is our camp
          name at Pennsic) disagree on how to use the tools. We believe they used
          their hands and the deck of their lathes to support the tools. The
          author shows a very awkward style using a tool rest of dubious origins
          (it wasn't found near the wood working materials but in the weaving shed).

          To address the heart of the question, I don't believe the techniques we
          use would lend itself well to the stresses of a motor powered lathe. The
          techniques we use often require that we cut on the backside of the
          workpiece and that would be dangerous with a fast spinning powered
          piece. When one nervous system controls the spin power via your foot,
          the tool via your hands, then everything is working in tune.

          Now, this is not to say that hooked cutting surfaces aren't found in a
          power setting, but the angled end hook tools are not going to work well
          from a power tool/tool rest perspective, in my opinion. Just like
          scrapers don't work well at all on green wood on a spring pole lathe.

          Use power tool capable tools on your power lathe and spring pole capable
          tools on your spring pole lathe. A very few of the tools will be able to
          work in both environments (specifically those where the cutting edge
          profiles look similar when you hold them p to each other). As an
          example, the bowl gauge and roughing gauge when you look end on have a
          very similar cutting shape to the hook tools when you look end on to
          their cutting arc.

          It is also a real PITA to sharpen those hand made hook tools and I think
          the speed of a power lathe would negatively impact them and require lots
          more sharpening. There are wood miser modern circular cutter lathe tools
          designed to do nesting bowls that could probably be adapted to save your
          cores for a secondary bowl.

          Best of luck,
          Haraldr Bassi



          Bill Brown wrote:
          > 1^st question
          >
          >
          >
          > Does anyone on the list work with the same type hook tools that Robin
          > Wood from the UK works with? For any not familiar with him he has some
          > great videos on You Tube. One question in particular is the hook tool
          > that he uses to gouge the inner bowl out. Also can these same hook tools
          > be effective on a motorized lathe or are they specific to the pole lathe
          > setup he uses (reciprocating and low RPM). I am currently working on
          > learning to make goblets and cups and have gotten the hang of things
          > pretty good (thanks to 3 years of shop class in high school 20 years
          > ago.) and I am ready to turn bowls, I just hate to gouge out all the
          > wood in the center when I could just cut the core out and have the
          > makings for another smaller bowl.
          >
          >
          >
          > I do have a forge and have made some tools that work. My skill at the
          > forge is minimal but growing daily. My biggest question comes from the
          > shape of the tool and the bevel of the cutting edge.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > 2^nd question
          >
          > What angle is proper for the cutting edge bevel of a motorized lathe
          > tool vs pole lathe. Why?
          >
          >
          >
          > Will be positing some of my work soon for critique. Gotta figure out
          > this upload thing first.
          >
          >
          >
          > Domingos of Arenal
          >
          >
        • leaking pen
          having just been introduced to robins work, and hook tools, i have to try it first, but i disagree. when i was first introduced to lathe work, it reminded me
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 8, 2007
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            having just been introduced to robins work, and hook tools, i have to try it first, but i disagree.  when i was first introduced to lathe work, it reminded me of a pottery wheel.  and a lot of potters tools look just like the hook tools.  i think the back and forth vs circular force therefore shouldnt render the tools worthless, just require slightly different techniques.  i for one am going to forge myself some hook tools, for hand and lathe use.

            On Dec 8, 2007 2:07 PM, Dave Calafrancesco - Yahoo <yahoo@...> wrote:

            Yes. We do use the same types of tools that Robin Wood uses. Their info
            can be found in the YAT books on Viking age woodworking. My books are
            still packed so I'd have to Google the book to get you the ISBN details.

            The author of that book and the people I work with (Budgardr is our camp
            name at Pennsic) disagree on how to use the tools. We believe they used
            their hands and the deck of their lathes to support the tools. The
            author shows a very awkward style using a tool rest of dubious origins
            (it wasn't found near the wood working materials but in the weaving shed).

            To address the heart of the question, I don't believe the techniques we
            use would lend itself well to the stresses of a motor powered lathe. The
            techniques we use often require that we cut on the backside of the
            workpiece and that would be dangerous with a fast spinning powered
            piece. When one nervous system controls the spin power via your foot,
            the tool via your hands, then everything is working in tune.

            Now, this is not to say that hooked cutting surfaces aren't found in a
            power setting, but the angled end hook tools are not going to work well
            from a power tool/tool rest perspective, in my opinion. Just like
            scrapers don't work well at all on green wood on a spring pole lathe.

            Use power tool capable tools on your power lathe and spring pole capable
            tools on your spring pole lathe. A very few of the tools will be able to
            work in both environments (specifically those where the cutting edge
            profiles look similar when you hold them p to each other). As an
            example, the bowl gauge and roughing gauge when you look end on have a
            very similar cutting shape to the hook tools when you look end on to
            their cutting arc.

            It is also a real PITA to sharpen those hand made hook tools and I think
            the speed of a power lathe would negatively impact them and require lots
            more sharpening. There are wood miser modern circular cutter lathe tools
            designed to do nesting bowls that could probably be adapted to save your
            cores for a secondary bowl.

            Best of luck,
            Haraldr Bassi

            Bill Brown wrote:
            > 1^st question


            >
            >
            >
            > Does anyone on the list work with the same type hook tools that Robin
            > Wood from the UK works with? For any not familiar with him he has some
            > great videos on You Tube. One question in particular is the hook tool
            > that he uses to gouge the inner bowl out. Also can these same hook tools
            > be effective on a motorized lathe or are they specific to the pole lathe
            > setup he uses (reciprocating and low RPM). I am currently working on
            > learning to make goblets and cups and have gotten the hang of things
            > pretty good (thanks to 3 years of shop class in high school 20 years
            > ago.) and I am ready to turn bowls, I just hate to gouge out all the
            > wood in the center when I could just cut the core out and have the
            > makings for another smaller bowl.
            >
            >
            >
            > I do have a forge and have made some tools that work. My skill at the
            > forge is minimal but growing daily. My biggest question comes from the
            > shape of the tool and the bevel of the cutting edge.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 2^nd question

            >
            > What angle is proper for the cutting edge bevel of a motorized lathe
            > tool vs pole lathe. Why?
            >
            >
            >
            > Will be positing some of my work soon for critique. Gotta figure out
            > this upload thing first.
            >
            >
            >
            > Domingos of Arenal
            >
            >



            --
            That which yields isn't always weak.
          • Ralph Lindberg
            While I have never done business with them, a friend recommends http://www.hiltonhandcraft.com/ (note, visit with MS Explorer, I ve had issues visiting their
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 9, 2007
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              While I have never done business with them, a friend recommends
              http://www.hiltonhandcraft.com/ (note, visit with MS Explorer, I've
              had issues visiting their site with any other browser)

              TTFN
              Ralg
              AnTir
            • Ralph Lindberg
              ... Are you talking about Wood and Woodworking in Anglo-Scandinavian and Medieval York ? ... camp ... shed). ... The tool rest shown in the book I
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 9, 2007
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                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Dave Calafrancesco - Yahoo
                <yahoo@...> wrote:
                >
                > Yes. We do use the same types of tools that Robin Wood uses. Their info
                > can be found in the YAT books on Viking age woodworking. My books are
                > still packed so I'd have to Google the book to get you the ISBN details.
                >

                Are you talking about "Wood and Woodworking in Anglo-Scandinavian
                and Medieval York"?

                > The author of that book and the people I work with (Budgardr is our
                camp
                > name at Pennsic) disagree on how to use the tools. We believe they used
                > their hands and the deck of their lathes to support the tools. The
                > author shows a very awkward style using a tool rest of dubious origins
                > (it wasn't found near the wood working materials but in the weaving
                shed).
                >
                The "tool rest" shown in the book I referenced is just plan wacky. I
                also had to laugh at her marveling at the skill of the woodworkers.
                based on the lack of spoiled bowl-blanks. Why I laughed was because
                they got rid of theirs the same way I do, they burn them as fire wood.

                Ralg
                AnTir
              • Ralph Lindberg
                ... to try it ... just like ... I tend to agree, technique and tool position should handle the effort. ... My understanding, from doing a far amount of
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 9, 2007
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                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "leaking pen" <itsatrap@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > having just been introduced to robins work, and hook tools, i have
                  to try it
                  > first, but i disagree. when i was first introduced to lathe work, it
                  > reminded me of a pottery wheel. and a lot of potters tools look
                  just like
                  > the hook tools. i think the back and forth vs circular force therefore
                  > shouldnt render the tools worthless, just require slightly different
                  > techniques.

                  I tend to agree, technique and tool position should handle the effort.

                  > i for one am going to forge myself some hook tools, for hand
                  > and lathe use.
                  >
                  My understanding, from doing a far amount of arm-chair research, that
                  concrete nails work well for that.

                  TTFN
                  Ralg
                  AnTir
                • Ralph Lindberg
                  To see someone (a fellow I know) making hook chisel for use on his power lathe, see
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 9, 2007
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                    To see someone (a fellow I know) making hook chisel for use on his
                    power lathe, see
                    http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=turning&Number=3318635&fpart=&PHPSESSID=

                    TTFN
                    Ralg
                    AnTir
                  • Dave Calafrancesco - Yahoo
                    ... Yup. ... Yeah. She really stretches in order to force a tool rest when none of the illuminations I ve found showed one. That s not to say they don t
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 15, 2007
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                      Ralph Lindberg wrote:
                      > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Dave Calafrancesco - Yahoo
                      > <yahoo@...> wrote:
                      >> Yes. We do use the same types of tools that Robin Wood uses. Their info
                      >> can be found in the YAT books on Viking age woodworking. My books are
                      >> still packed so I'd have to Google the book to get you the ISBN details.
                      >>
                      >
                      > Are you talking about "Wood and Woodworking in Anglo-Scandinavian
                      > and Medieval York"?

                      Yup.

                      >
                      >> The author of that book and the people I work with (Budgardr is our
                      > camp
                      >> name at Pennsic) disagree on how to use the tools. We believe they used
                      >> their hands and the deck of their lathes to support the tools. The
                      >> author shows a very awkward style using a tool rest of dubious origins
                      >> (it wasn't found near the wood working materials but in the weaving
                      > shed).
                      > The "tool rest" shown in the book I referenced is just plan wacky. I
                      > also had to laugh at her marveling at the skill of the woodworkers.
                      > based on the lack of spoiled bowl-blanks. Why I laughed was because
                      > they got rid of theirs the same way I do, they burn them as fire wood.


                      Yeah. She really stretches in order to force a tool rest when none of
                      the illuminations I've found showed one. That's not to say they don't
                      support a tool, I've used lots of different tool supports over the
                      years. Often looking like just a scrap block of wood of the correct
                      height to hold the tool at the position I desire or the tool rest that
                      lives at the end of my left arm that I carry with me everywhere.

                      I'm not so sure about whether they burned the botched bowl blanks, that
                      would be a lot of green wood to throw into a fire. They certainly would
                      have known how poorly wet green wood burns. After all, they tossed the
                      cores from the bowls into the midden instead of burning them. The cores
                      would have been drier than the botched blank would have been, yet they
                      ended up in the middens by the hundreds (perhaps thousands). I'm more
                      inclined to believe that a botched bowl blank is more likely to be
                      turned into a smaller bowl or a cup. Yet there is still a surprising
                      lack of severely broken cups and bowls with intact cores.

                      I suspect that the technique of starting the rough work in the field and
                      bringing the semi-completed work back to the village allowed for dumping
                      the detritus where it didn't stand a chance of discovery. It also means
                      having to transport back from the woods only viable bowl blanks instead
                      of the other 30-50% of the tree that isn't a bowl waiting to be discovered.

                      Haraldr Bassi
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