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Re: [MedievalSawdust] St Cross

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  • julian wilson
    tracey sawyer wrote: OH MY GOD... and you just use this for a regular event - not for special events like Coronations... (gasp) envy,
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 4, 2007


      tracey sawyer <tfsawyer@...> wrote:
      OH MY GOD... and you just use this for a regular event - not for special events like Coronations. .. (gasp)
       
      envy,  envy (control thyself!!!) .... When did you say this event was?  Maybe I can save the airfare .... sigh!
       
      Lowry
       
      REPLY
      Dear Lowry,
      The 2006 and 2007 Winchester Pilgrimages have NOT been your "regular SCA Event"
      Because they had distinct Christian religious symbolism, which you were invited to experience for yourself. Furthermore, we were guests of the resident Master and Brothers of St. Cross - "guests in their Houses" if you will - rather like staying in a working Monastery, - though St. Cross is a "Lay foundation".
      Dates? - I think the announcement for the 2007 event is still running on the Net, it was in early June; - perhaps even the site for 2006 may still be "active" also.
      Lord Raphe Cuthbert is enquiring of the Master & Brothers if - and when - we may have a "Pilgrimage" in 2008 - no date has been fixed yet, but his last update for the ID Populace said he wanted to try and avoid conflict with "Double Wars", IIRC
      The Almshouse and Hospital of St Cross is about 1.5 hours walk through the lovely watermeadows alongside the River Itchen to Winchester Cathedral - which in the medieval period contained the Shrine of St. Swithin.
       
      The core of the Event is to experience the part of the Pilgrims' Walk between St. Cross and the Shrine of St. Swithin. Even with MoP to be met-with along the way [ surprisingly non-intrusive in 2007 - in our 3 hour walk to & fro, - and including the time in the Cathedral, only 3 persons approached my Lady and I to ask us what we were doing] - the effort of imagination to make the mental journey back through Time was for me very little. The ambience was wonderful!
       
      On the Friday evening, after the Outer gates are closed to MoP, - there were readings from the Canterbury Tales, in the Hundred Mens' Hall, - to get everyone "in pilgrimage mood". In 2007, we were honoured by the presence of a Brother both on Friday evening and at Feast.
       
      Saturday morning, - breakfast in the Hundred Mens' Hall, followed by a general-knowledge briefing about medieval pilgrimages. This couple of hours includes making pilgrims' scrips by everyone, from materials provided by the event organisers.
       
      Thereafter, about 10 to 10.30 BST all gathered in the Outer Court, and grouped themselves into smaller parties  - couples, quaretets &c, and started off along the walk at short intervals,  - knowing they would meet Hermits and/or possibly Anchoresses on the way who would question them about their "pilgrims' general knowledge". Kind of a "Pilgrims' 20 Questions"  - about medieval shrines, medieval saints, &c - the sort of stuff any averagely-educated Christian Gentle of the medieval period might have known. You marked your own correct answers on your personal briefing sheet, for your personal satisfaction.
       
      On arriving at The Cathedral, after a pleasant walk through the watermeadows, [which walk is mostly rural, with few anachronisms in sight until one reaches the ruins of Winchester Castle].  very shortly after leaving the Castle Ruins, one can either return at once, go and see the Cathedral, or go and explore the old City - bearing in mind there will be a "light luncheon" between  about 1300 and 1430 BST back at St Cross.
       
      During the afternoon, both years' there has been a "Pas d'Arms" in the Inner Court. The MoP visiting St Cross get to watch, if they wish. Those SCAdians not fighting, explore St Cross, and the lovely Church, or spectate.
      Meanwhile, the cooks have laboured to prepare a Feast.
      Come the evening, all "dress for the feast" - which is held in the Brothers' Hall, adjacent to the Master's Lodgings in the Tower.
       
      During the feast or afterwards, members of the company entertain the rest by music, song, readings, or recitations, -  from the Minstrels' Gallery.  For those who stay overnight, there is either medieval camping in the grassy Inner Court, or "crash space" in the medieval first-floor rooms adjacent the Brothers' Hall, sleeping on "pallets" on the ancient floors as medieval pilgrims would have done.
      Sunday morning, one may relax, enjoy converse, enjoy a tour of the gardens not normally open to the MoP every day - [indeed some parts are not open to the MoP at all] - and if one wishes, attend Morning Service in the lovely Church., in garb.
      In 2007, erveryone started to pack-up around mid-day, though there was no sense of " we must be offsite by XXXXhrsBST" - especially because the weather was wonderful, and the St. Cross gardens were "open" to the MoP that afternoon.
      IMHO, re-enacting in the UK doesn't get much better than this!
      I hope that answers the FAQ's that may have been in Listers' minds.
       
      In humble Service,
      Matthew Baker.
    • Chris Chastain
      I m envious! European SCAdians have it made! Definitely by the sound of things an extremely lovely event. Dmitrii May you never get lost! _____ From:
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 4, 2007

        I’m envious! European SCAdians have it made! Definitely by the sound of things an extremely lovely event.

         

         

        Dmitrii

         

         

         

        May you never get lost!


        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of julian wilson
        Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:46 PM
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: tracey sawyer
        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] St Cross

         



        tracey sawyer <tfsawyer@yahoo. com.au> wrote:

        OH MY GOD... and you just use this for a regular event - not for special events like Coronations. .. (gasp)

         

        envy,  envy (control thyself!!!) .... When did you say this event was?  Maybe I can save the airfare .... sigh!

         

        Lowry

         

        REPLY

        Dear Lowry,

        The 2006 and 2007 Winchester Pilgrimages have NOT been your "regular SCA Event"

        Because they had distinct Christian religious symbolism, which you were invited to experience for yourself. Furthermore, we were guests of the resident Master and Brothers of St. Cross - "guests in their Houses" if you will - rather like staying in a working Monastery, - though St. Cross is a "Lay foundation".

        Dates? - I think the announcement for the 2007 event is still running on the Net, it was in early June; - perhaps even the site for 2006 may still be "active" also.

        Lord Raphe Cuthbert is enquiring of the Master & Brothers if - and when - we may have a "Pilgrimage" in 2008 - no date has been fixed yet, but his last update for the ID Populace said he wanted to try and avoid conflict with "Double Wars", IIRC

        The Almshouse and Hospital of St Cross is about 1.5 hours walk through the lovely watermeadows alongside the River Itchen to Winchester Cathedral - which in the medieval period contained the Shrine of St. Swithin.

         

        The core of the Event is to experience the part of the Pilgrims' Walk between St. Cross and the Shrine of St. Swithin. Even with MoP to be met-with along the way [ surprisingly non-intrusive in 2007 - in our 3 hour walk to & fro, - and including the time in the Cathedral, only 3 persons approached my Lady and I to ask us what we were doing] - the effort of imagination to make the mental journey back through Time was for me very little. The ambience was wonderful!

         

        On the Friday evening, after the Outer gates are closed to MoP, - there were readings from the Canterbury Tales, in the Hundred Mens' Hall, - to get everyone "in pilgrimage mood". In 2007, we were honoured by the presence of a Brother both on Friday evening and at Feast.

         

        Saturday morning, - breakfast in the Hundred Mens' Hall, followed by a general-knowledge briefing about medieval pilgrimages. This couple of hours includes making pilgrims' scrips by everyone, from materials provided by the event organisers.

         

        Thereafter, about 10 to 10.30 BST all gathered in the Outer Court, and grouped themselves into smaller parties  - couples, quaretets &c, and started off along the walk at short intervals,  - knowing they would meet Hermits and/or possibly Anchoresses on the way who would question them about their "pilgrims' general knowledge". Kind of a "Pilgrims' 20 Questions"  - about medieval shrines, medieval saints, &c - the sort of stuff any averagely-educated Christian Gentle of the medieval period might have known. You marked your own correct answers on your personal briefing sheet, for your personal satisfaction.

         

        On arriving at The Cathedral, after a pleasant walk through the watermeadows, [which walk is mostly rural, with few anachronisms in sight until one reaches the ruins of Winchester Castle ].  very shortly after leaving the Castle Ruins, one can either return at once, go and see the Cathedral, or go and explore the old City - bearing in mind there will be a "light luncheon" between  about 1300 and 1430 BST back at St Cross.

         

        During the afternoon, both years' there has been a "Pas d'Arms" in the Inner Court . The MoP visiting St Cross get to watch, if they wish. Those SCAdians not fighting, explore St Cross, and the lovely Church, or spectate.

        Meanwhile, the cooks have laboured to prepare a Feast.

        Come the evening, all "dress for the feast" - which is held in the Brothers' Hall, adjacent to the Master's Lodgings in the Tower.

         

        During the feast or afterwards, members of the company entertain the rest by music, song, readings, or recitations, -  from the Minstrels' Gallery.  For those who stay overnight, there is either medieval camping in the grassy Inner Court , or "crash space" in the medieval first-floor rooms adjacent the Brothers' Hall, sleeping on "pallets" on the ancient floors as medieval pilgrims would have done.

        Sunday morning, one may relax, enjoy converse, enjoy a tour of the gardens not normally open to the MoP every day - [indeed some parts are not open to the MoP at all] - and if one wishes, attend Morning Service in the lovely Church., in garb.

        In 2007, erveryone started to pack-up around mid-day, though there was no sense of " we must be offsite by XXXXhrsBST" - especially because the weather was wonderful, and the St. Cross gardens were "open" to the MoP that afternoon.

        IMHO, re-enacting in the UK doesn't get much better than this!

        I hope that answers the FAQ's that may have been in Listers' minds.

         

        In humble Service,

        Matthew Baker.

      • julian wilson
        Chris Chastain wrote: I’m envious! European SCAdians have it made! Definitely by the sound of things an extremely lovely event.
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 5, 2007
          Chris Chastain <ckchastain@...> wrote:
          I’m envious! European SCAdians have it made! Definitely by the sound of things an extremely lovely event.
          Dmitrii
           
          REPLY
          Chris/Dimitrii,
          try the "look of things" as an incentive to try and come along sometime!
          I posted 67 pictures of the 2007 Pilgrimage in an Album labelled "2007 Winchester Pilgrimage" [or some such] in the Photo files of the "NottheIML - yahoo-group" List - the album can be found at the following URL
          I've just checked the List Files, and my photo album is still "up".
          So if you join that List, you'll be able to see my pictures there still. Hopefully they'll act as an extra incentive to try and come to the Event in 2008, [when it is arranged.]
          I wasn't the only person who took pictures and posted them, and I'll try to find the other albums and send you those URL's as well.
          I'm not sure which other Shire Lists Lord Raphe Cuthbert will post the details to, - but since West Dragoningshire "host" the event, I'm sure that the 2008 details will be posted there, for certain, - when he has agreed a date with the Master and Brethren of St. Cross.
          So I'd suggest subscribing to that List, and you'll then be certain to get the details, when they shall be known.
           
          Yours in humble service,
          Matthew Baker.



        • Helen Schultz
          Sadly, Matthew, unless one is a member of that list, they cannot view photos or any other items on the site. So, one would have to join just to view your
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 5, 2007
            Sadly, Matthew, unless one is a member of that list, they cannot view photos or any other items on the site.  So, one would have to join just to view your photos (which I am sure are fabulous) <grin>.  Maybe you could start a personal Flickr account (through Yahoo!) and put your photos up there for all to see?? 
             
            Curiously, what is "Not the IML" mean??
             
            But, I know what non-Drachenwalders mean about event envy... I started out in Drachenwald, and to have an event in a castle ruin, or near one, or even at a religious site, adds so much more to the atmosphere.  I went into a bit of culture shock when I returned to the US-based SCA after spending my first 3 years in the SCA there in Drachenwald <grin>.
             
            ~~ Katarina Helene
             
            ----- Original Message -----

            Chris Chastain <ckchastain@hotmail. com> wrote:
            I’m envious! European SCAdians have it made! Definitely by the sound of things an extremely lovely event.
            Dmitrii
             
            REPLY
            Chris/Dimitrii,
            try the "look of things" as an incentive to try and come along sometime!
            I posted 67 pictures of the 2007 Pilgrimage in an Album labelled "2007 Winchester Pilgrimage" [or some such] in the Photo files of the "NottheIML - yahoo-group" List - the album can be found at the following URL
            I've just checked the List Files, and my photo album is still "up".
            So if you join that List, you'll be able to see my pictures there still. Hopefully they'll act as an extra incentive to try and come to the Event in 2008, [when it is arranged.]
            I wasn't the only person who took pictures and posted them, and I'll try to find the other albums and send you those URL's as well.
            I'm not sure which other Shire Lists Lord Raphe Cuthbert will post the details to, - but since West Dragoningshire "host" the event, I'm sure that the 2008 details will be posted there, for certain, - when he has agreed a date with the Master and Brethren of St. Cross.
            So I'd suggest subscribing to that List, and you'll then be certain to get the details, when they shall be known.
             
            Yours in humble service,
            Matthew Baker.

            .

          • julian wilson
            Helen Schultz wrote: Sadly, Matthew, unless one is a member of that list, they cannot view photos or any other items on the site.
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 5, 2007
              Helen Schultz <helen.schultz@...> wrote:
              Sadly, Matthew, unless one is a member of that list, they cannot view photos or any other items on the site.  So, one would have to join just to view your photos (which I am sure are fabulous) <grin>.  Maybe you could start a personal Flickr account (through Yahoo!) and put your photos up there for all to see?? 
              .
               
              Meisterin Katarina Helene, Lowry, Dimitrii and all,
               I have now posted 107 pictures from the "2007 Winchester Pilgrimage" for you all to see on Flickr at
              This is the first time I've used Flickr, so I apologise that the pictures aren't in the order I would prefer - I did a batch upload, and can't figure out how to shuffle them around so that they come in an organised sequence.
               
              in humble service,
              Matthew Baker



            • Rhys Terafan Greydragon
              Katarina, Not-the-IML was the (originally unofficial) mailing list for the Isles of Drachenwald, meaning Great Britain and Ireland. It started out as an
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 5, 2007
                Katarina,
                 
                    Not-the-IML was the (originally unofficial) mailing list for the "Isles" of Drachenwald, meaning Great Britain and Ireland.
                 
                It started out as an alternate for what was supposed to be the official list, but it quickly evolved into the one list that everyone was on and so now it is "The IML" but no one sees any value in changing the name...
                 
                Terafan
                formerly in Insulae Draconis and on "Not-the-IML"...


                From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Schultz
                Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:48 PM
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] St Cross

                Sadly, Matthew, unless one is a member of that list, they cannot view photos or any other items on the site.  So, one would have to join just to view your photos (which I am sure are fabulous) <grin>.  Maybe you could start a personal Flickr account (through Yahoo!) and put your photos up there for all to see?? 
                 
                Curiously, what is "Not the IML" mean??
                 
                But, I know what non-Drachenwalders mean about event envy... I started out in Drachenwald, and to have an event in a castle ruin, or near one, or even at a religious site, adds so much more to the atmosphere.  I went into a bit of culture shock when I returned to the US-based SCA after spending my first 3 years in the SCA there in Drachenwald <grin>.
                 
                ~~ Katarina Helene
                 
                ----- Original Message -----

                Chris Chastain <ckchastain@hotmail. com> wrote:
                I’m envious! European SCAdians have it made! Definitely by the sound of things an extremely lovely event.
                Dmitrii
                 
                REPLY
                Chris/Dimitrii,
                try the "look of things" as an incentive to try and come along sometime!
                I posted 67 pictures of the 2007 Pilgrimage in an Album labelled "2007 Winchester Pilgrimage" [or some such] in the Photo files of the "NottheIML - yahoo-group" List - the album can be found at the following URL
                I've just checked the List Files, and my photo album is still "up".
                So if you join that List, you'll be able to see my pictures there still. Hopefully they'll act as an extra incentive to try and come to the Event in 2008, [when it is arranged.]
                I wasn't the only person who took pictures and posted them, and I'll try to find the other albums and send you those URL's as well.
                I'm not sure which other Shire Lists Lord Raphe Cuthbert will post the details to, - but since West Dragoningshire "host" the event, I'm sure that the 2008 details will be posted there, for certain, - when he has agreed a date with the Master and Brethren of St. Cross.
                So I'd suggest subscribing to that List, and you'll then be certain to get the details, when they shall be known.
                 
                Yours in humble service,
                Matthew Baker.

                .

              • Helen Schultz
                Thanks, Terafan... I knew it had something to do with Insulae Draconis, but couldn t figure out the acronym . Are you back from the desert yet? And,
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 5, 2007
                  Thanks, Terafan... I knew it had something to do with Insulae Draconis, but couldn't figure out the acronym <smile>.
                   
                  Are you back from the desert yet?
                   
                  And, Matthew, thank you for doing the Flickr thing... I think I'd seen some of those images on another list, but not all of them... I love the tiles at Winchester.  Did you go look at the Winchester Bible there, too?  I got to see it once in 1987, it is totally awesome... 3 very large volumes.
                   
                  ~~ Katarina Helene
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----

                  Katarina,
                   
                      Not-the-IML was the (originally unofficial) mailing list for the "Isles" of Drachenwald, meaning Great Britain and Ireland.
                   
                  It started out as an alternate for what was supposed to be the official list, but it quickly evolved into the one list that everyone was on and so now it is "The IML" but no one sees any value in changing the name...
                   
                  Terafan
                  formerly in Insulae Draconis and on "Not-the-IML" ...

                  .

                • Chris Chastain
                  I looked thru your pics and all I can say is ghosts! I see my fellow scadians doing what we do best and I honestly see ghosts of each persons respective time
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 5, 2007

                    I looked thru your pics and all I can say is ghosts! I see my fellow scadians doing what we do best and I honestly see ghosts of each persons respective time period. Sigh, the best we have is Saint Augustine Fl and not much is done there. Being the oldest city in America and also having the old Spanish fort you’d think somehow someway some scadian would find a way to put it to use. Looks like I need to pay a visit across the pond one year for some event. I say good job on this event, a definite achievement!

                     

                    Dmitrii

                     

                    Hurry to meet death before your place is taken!

                    Tommorow's victory is won in today's practice!

                    Samurai maxim


                    From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of julian wilson
                    Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:27 PM
                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] St Cross

                     

                    Helen Schultz <helen.schultz@ comcast.net> wrote:

                    Sadly, Matthew, unless one is a member of that list, they cannot view photos or any other items on the site.  So, one would have to join just to view your photos (which I am sure are fabulous) <grin>.  Maybe you could start a personal Flickr account (through Yahoo!) and put your photos up there for all to see?? 

                    .

                     

                    Meisterin Katarina Helene, Lowry, Dimitrii and all,

                     I have now posted 107 pictures from the "2007 Winchester Pilgrimage" for you all to see on Flickr at

                    This is the first time I've used Flickr, so I apologise that the pictures aren't in the order I would prefer - I did a batch upload, and can't figure out how to shuffle them around so that they come in an organised sequence.

                     

                    in humble service,

                    Matthew Baker



                     

                  • julian wilson
                    Chris Chastain wrote: I looked thru your pics and all I can say is ghosts! I see my fellow scadians doing what we do best and I
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 6, 2007
                      Chris Chastain <ckchastain@...> wrote:
                      I looked thru your pics and all I can say is ghosts! I see my fellow scadians doing what we do best and I honestly see ghosts of each persons respective time period. Sigh, the best we have is Saint Augustine Fl and not much is done there. Being the oldest city in America and also having the old Spanish fort you’d think somehow someway some scadian would find a way to put it to use. Looks like I need to pay a visit across the pond one year for some event. I say good job on this event, a definite achievement!
                      .
                      REPLY
                      Chris, Lowry,
                      for future reference then, - so far as I know, Insulæ Draconis has  recently mounted events at the following Period Locations - Raglan Castle; - St. Cross;  - Tretower Court & Castle;
                       and Barley Hall, York. - all of which have well-illustrated websites.
                      Of these, "Raglan Fair" 2008 will run from September 11th to 15th and looks as though it will be the longest period-location SCA event in ID next year.
                      A chance to camp medievally in a "slighted" castle, and test your medieval combat skills against other SCAdians, anywhere within the walls; and to attend a torchlit Ball in the Fountain Court on the Saturday evening!
                      My Lady and I missed Raglan 1, attended Raglan 2 and 3 where we had a wonderful weekend each time; and have already booked leave from our mundane world for Raglan 4 - which this year will be longer than ever before.
                      If one was thinking about travelling to the UK for one of those events, I'd say Raglan 4 would be the one to choose, - 'cos you'd get longer onsite in a period location. As an added incentive to visit the UK for SCAdians, KWHS 2008 is being held in London that September, also.
                      If we of ID are privileged to have another "Winchester Pilgrimage" in 2008, then St. Cross would be my second choice - especially for anyone on this medieval Sawdust List..  You've seen the pictures of St Cross, plus there is the ancient City of Winchester within walking distance, - and within an hour's drive there is the outstanding "Weald & Downland Museum"  - a collection of [mostly-timber-framed] medieval buildings salvaged from their original locations, and carefully re-erected [shorn of their later modifications] on a huge 45-acre "greenfield" site just to the north of the village of Singleton, West Sussex, 4 miles north of the ancient City of Chichester, - which of course has the wonderful "Roman Palace" nearby in the village of Fishbourne.
                      Amongst it's many attactions, the Weald & Downland Museum's "collection" includes a fully-furnished medieval manor house, and a separate Tudor Kitchen [working and staffed by re-enactor volunteers]; a working watermill which "mills" on an almost daily basis, a working Smithy, and a working [heavy] woodworking area in the woods at the back of the Museum Site. The gardens of the various houses are planted with period plants [ appropriate to the date of each building]. And there are stables for the Museums working draught horses, too.
                      The heavy woodworking "shop" in the Museum's woods has a working sawpit, a restored Victorian woodyard crane, a mobile and possibly Victorian sawmill for turning logs into planks, and the people who run this "woodyard" know how to do things in a historic manner with maximum hand-tooling and minimum powered-tool assitance.
                       
                      yours in humble service,
                      Matthew Baker

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