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RE: [MedievalSawdust] Cutting octagonals on a slope

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  • James Winkler
    I saw this done (haven t done it myself. so I m a little short on the subtleties that may be involved) once using a gig that was set up for a table saw. I
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 2, 2007
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      I saw this done (haven’t done it myself… so I’m a little short on the subtleties that  may be involved) once using a gig that was set up for a table saw.   I think it was Norm Abrams that did it.   Basically he made a sliding panel that had a fence that could be set to the appropriate taper angle.  He mounted the piece in it and ripped it on a table saw.  The work piece could be clamped to the sled and the fence secured so it didn’t slip during cutting.

       

      Now… if I remember correctly… he only did a square taper…  there will be other issues associated with the second set of taper cuts…  may require a second gig to accommodate the piece securely.

       

      It’s been a long time since I saw the show so I’m a little fuzzy on some of the specifics… but the basic gig construction kinda’ stuck in my mind.

       

      That’s about all I remember…  you didn’t mention how long the piece was you wanted to “octagonalize”…  so I don’t know if length is going to be an issue this way or not.

       

      Some woodworking stores sell those plastic pieces that are designed to run in the guide tracks on saw tables… plastic is good because it is less inclined to ‘bind’ in the track… as long as it’s mounted straight.

       

      Hope this helps…

      Chas.

    • James Winkler
      Ummm. it also occurred to me that it might be possible (given the dimensions of the piece) to simply build a box jig with a guide on the top where you could
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 2, 2007
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        Ummm…  it also occurred to me that it might be possible (given the dimensions of the piece) to simply build a box jig with a guide on the top where you could take a router with a long straight trimming bit and shave off the material on the other four sides (rotating the piece 90 deg for each cut).

         

        Just a thought…

         

        Chas.,___

      • Geffrei Maudeleyne
        Consider use of a tapering jig. Also, experiment with making a cut then use masking tape and tape it back together, turn and make another cut. As Always, Yours
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 3, 2007
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          Consider use of a tapering jig. Also, experiment with making a cut then use masking tape and tape it back together, turn and make another cut.

           

          As Always, Yours In Service to the Dream,

          Geffrei Maudeleyne

           


          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rhys Terafan Greydragon
          Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 10:18 PM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Cutting octagonals on a slope

           

          Greetings all,

           

              I am hoping someone knows a good trick for "octagonalizing" a sloped piece of wood.

           

          I have a 3 x 3  that is sloped on all 4 sides down to 1.5 x 1.5...    (that is what I want). 

           

           

          What I now want to do is octagonalize it so all 8 sides are even and all narrow down evenly from the big end to the small end.    Anyone have any tips, tricks, or good ideas??  

           

           

          I can do it with a drawknife and a spokeshave, but I am looking for a power-tool-method. ..

           

          cheers,
             Terafan
           
          Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon     terafan@greydragon. org
          Brewer, Tent and Furniture maker, and other things I can't remember...
           

        • Dale Compton
          If you have it all measured and marked already you could use a table saw. Clamp the working piece to the edge of a wider plank (I use 1/4 inch plywood) for
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 3, 2007
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                  If you have it all measured and marked already you could use a table saw. Clamp the working piece to the edge of a wider plank (I use 1/4 inch plywood) for ease of handling, sort of a jig Angle the blade at 45 or what every angle you need. This can be checked by pushing your work up to the blade when it is not turned on to be sure of the degree of angle you require.
             
              Then again, doing it by hand with a shave horse is period :)
            see you at Cutlass' and Corsairs
             
            Innis


            From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rhys Terafan Greydragon
            Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 10:18 PM
            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Cutting octagonals on a slope

            Greetings all,
             
                I am hoping someone knows a good trick for "octagonalizing" a sloped piece of wood.
             
            I have a 3 x 3  that is sloped on all 4 sides down to 1.5 x 1.5...    (that is what I want). 
             
             
            What I now want to do is octagonalize it so all 8 sides are even and all narrow down evenly from the big end to the small end.    Anyone have any tips, tricks, or good ideas??  
             
             
            I can do it with a drawknife and a spokeshave, but I am looking for a power-tool-method. ..
             

            cheers,
               Terafan
             
            Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon     terafan@greydragon. org
            Brewer, Tent and Furniture maker, and other things I can't remember...
             

          • Dale Compton
            I have not seen that, maybe I will give it a try since I dont use my router enough at this time. Innis _____ From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 3, 2007
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                 I have not seen that, maybe I will give it a try since I dont use my router enough at this time.
               
              Innis


              From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Winkler
              Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 12:30 AM
              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Cutting octagonals on a slope

              Ummm…  it also occurred to me that it might be possible (given the dimensions of the piece) to simply build a box jig with a guide on the top where you could take a router with a long straight trimming bit and shave off the material on the other four sides (rotating the piece 90 deg for each cut).

              Just a thought…

              Chas.,___

            • Don Eisele
              For this math to work: 1) Save the cutoff, then tape it back on afterwards to keep two flat sides - one flat on the tablesaw, one flat on your taper jig. (if
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 3, 2007
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                For this math to work:
                1) Save the cutoff, then tape it back on afterwards to keep two flat sides -
                one flat on the tablesaw, one flat on your taper jig.
                (if the cutoff is too small, cut something out of scrap to use)
                You don't have to keep the octagonal cuts, as the calculations are based on
                your original flat sides.

                2) I assume you have a taper jig which you used to make the first tapers.

                Taper T
                sides S: 8

                Angle A = 90-(180/S)

                taper jig J: atan(sin(T)/tan(S))
                blade tilt B: asin(cos(S)*cos(T))

                These numbers give you half the angle, so multiply times two (I was using them
                for tapering staves).


                Example:
                3x3 -> 1.5x1.5 = .75 taper per side @ (unknown distance).
                assuming table height of approximately 30" we'd get:

                T = atan(.75/30) = 1.432deg
                A = 90-(180/8) = 67.5 deg
                J = .593deg
                B = 22.493deg

                So, your blade should be at 44.985degrees (might as well be 45),
                and your taper jig at 1.186deg

                I haven't actually done this for outside cuts like you are doing, but I'm
                fairly sure the math works the same compared to the mugs I was making.


                On Sun, Dec 02, 2007 at 09:17:37PM -0600, Rhys Terafan Greydragon did say:
                > Greetings all,
                >
                > I am hoping someone knows a good trick for "octagonalizing" a sloped
                > piece of wood.
                >
                > I have a 3 x 3 that is sloped on all 4 sides down to 1.5 x 1.5...
                > (that is what I want).
                >
                >
                > What I now want to do is octagonalize it so all 8 sides are even and all
                > narrow down evenly from the big end to the small end. Anyone have any
                > tips, tricks, or good ideas??
                >
                >
                > I can do it with a drawknife and a spokeshave, but I am looking for a
                > power-tool-method...
                >
                >
                > cheers,
                > Terafan
                >
                > Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon terafan@...
                > Brewer, Tent and Furniture maker, and other things I can't remember...
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >References
                >
                > Visible links
                > 1. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/message/9408;_ylc=X3oDMTM0OGJ0aW1pBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyMDA3MjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MjgzBG1zZ0lkAzk0MTEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTk2NjUxODk5BHRwY0lkAzk0MDg-
                > 2. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwN28zMTY1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyMDA3MjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MjgzBG1zZ0lkAzk0MTEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTk2NjUxODk5?act=reply&messageNum=9411
                > 3. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlamlqbTNkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyMDA3MjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MjgzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE5NjY1MTg5OQ--
                > 4. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJldjdkbzQ0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyMDA3MjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MjgzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE5NjY1MTg5OQ--
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                > 7. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaTU3dWk0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyMDA3MjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MjgzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzBHN0aW1lAzExOTY2NTE4OTk-
                > 8. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJjZGNvaGliBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyMDA3MjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MjgzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzExOTY2NTE4OTk-
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                > 11. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/calendar;_ylc=X3oDMTJkbW9haGMzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyMDA3MjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MjgzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2NhbARzdGltZQMxMTk2NjUxODk5
                > 12. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/
                > 13. http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkMHRyN3I0BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzYyMDA3MjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MjgzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTk2NjUxODk5
                > 14. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZWwwMW8wBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzYyMDA3MjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MjgzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExOTY2NTE4OTk-
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                > 17. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust;_ylc=X3oDMTJkNGpsYjd1BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzYyMDA3MjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MjgzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTk2NjUxODk5
                > 18. http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > 19. mailto:medievalsawdust-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=
                > 20. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNTZoaTdqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyMDA3MjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MjgzBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE5NjY1MTg5OQ--
                > 21. http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12j3s2boe/M=493064.11711023.12182481.9963301/D=groups/S=1705126283:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1196659099/A=5008815/R=0/SIG=10sulld0b/*http://starwars.yahoo.com/
                > 22. http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12j2lc3ae/M=493064.10729659.12153716.8674578/D=groups/S=1705126283:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1196659099/A=3848614/R=0/SIG=12t4qk00m/*http://news.yahoo.com/i/757;_ylt=A9FJqYzfwK5EFCQAswis0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3NW1oMDRpBHNlYwM3NTc-
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              • jay sabath
                Rhys, Consider using a band saw with a tapering jig. Cut each of the tapers but do NOT cut all the way through. leave some room at the bottom and shut off
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 3, 2007
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                  Rhys,

                  Consider using a band saw with a tapering jig.  Cut each of the tapers but do NOT cut all the way through.  leave some room at the bottom and shut off the saw and pull the piece off and give it a turn   If you leave about 1/2 an inch still connected you still have a complete thickness at both ends of the piece which should allow it to be solid in the jig.  

                  You can then cut through the rest of the way with a tool of choice or if you start with the piece about 1 inch longer, you can very carefully cut off that last inch with a power miter / chop saw.

                  Please work out any problems out on a test piece first. And let us know how which ever idea you use works out.

                  Johannes Machiavelli  



                  On Dec 2, 2007 9:17 PM, Rhys Terafan Greydragon < terafan@...> wrote:

                  Greetings all,
                   
                      I am hoping someone knows a good trick for "octagonalizing" a sloped piece of wood.
                   
                  I have a 3 x 3  that is sloped on all 4 sides down to 1.5 x 1.5...    (that is what I want). 
                   
                   
                  What I now want to do is octagonalize it so all 8 sides are even and all narrow down evenly from the big end to the small end.    Anyone have any tips, tricks, or good ideas??  
                   
                   
                  I can do it with a drawknife and a spokeshave, but I am looking for a power-tool-method...
                   

                  cheers,
                     Terafan
                   
                  Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon     terafan@...
                  Brewer, Tent and Furniture maker, and other things I can't remember...
                   


                  -- 
                  Lord Johannes Machiavelli
                  Shire of Rokkehealden
                  Kingdom of the Middle


                • paul
                  If you have assess to a good library there is an article in Wooden Boat #91 on mast building that includes a very simple tool to scribe accurate lines for
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 4, 2007
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                    If you have assess to a good library there is an article in Wooden Boat
                    #91 on mast building that includes a very simple tool to scribe accurate
                    lines for octagonalizing a timber. The relevant couple of sentances are

                    Start by taking the mast from a rectangular to an octagonal section.
                    For our mast we made a set of simple marking gauges from scraps of 3/4x1
                    1/2 lumber, with finish nails for the guide pins and scribers. In use,
                    the gauges are held diagonally across the mast, the guide pins
                    determining the angle. As this angle changes with the dimensions of the
                    mast, the gauge automatically divides the face into the correct
                    proportions for the octagonal section. The circular saw was used to
                    rough out the octagonal shape. Be careful here - make sure you don't
                    stray inside the guidelines. The jointer plane is ideal for completing
                    this stage accurately.

                    I don't know if I can do an accurate drawing but it looks something like
                    this.


                    -----------------------------
                    l
                    l Scrap lumber
                    -------------------------------------------
                    l l l
                    l short internal nails are the scribers
                    l
                    l long external nails are the guide pins
                    a b c


                    Hope that helps. If necessary I can scan and send the two pages from
                    that article about it.

                    Iain Qwhewyl



                    jay sabath wrote:
                    >
                    > Rhys,
                    >
                    >
                    > Consider using a band saw with a tapering jig. Cut each of the tapers
                    > but do NOT cut all the way through. leave some room at the bottom and
                    > shut off the saw and pull the piece off and give it a turn If you
                    > leave about 1/2 an inch still connected you still have a complete
                    > thickness at both ends of the piece which should allow it to be solid
                    > in the jig.
                    >
                    > You can then cut through the rest of the way with a tool of choice or
                    > if you start with the piece about 1 inch longer, you can very
                    > carefully cut off that last inch with a power miter / chop saw.
                    >
                    > Please work out any problems out on a test piece first. And let us
                    > know how which ever idea you use works out.
                    >
                    > Johannes Machiavelli
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Dec 2, 2007 9:17 PM, Rhys Terafan Greydragon <
                    > terafan@... <mailto:terafan@...>> wrote:
                    >
                    > Greetings all,
                    >
                    > I am hoping someone knows a good trick for "octagonalizing" a
                    > sloped piece of wood.
                    >
                    > I have a 3 x 3 that is sloped on all 4 sides down to 1.5 x
                    > 1.5... (that is what I want).
                    >
                    >
                    > What I now want to do is octagonalize it so all 8 sides are even
                    > and all narrow down evenly from the big end to the small end.
                    > Anyone have any tips, tricks, or good ideas??
                    >
                    >
                    > I can do it with a drawknife and a spokeshave, but I am looking
                    > for a power-tool-method...
                    >
                    >
                    > cheers,
                    > Terafan
                    >
                    > Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon terafan@...
                    > <mailto:terafan@...>
                    > Brewer, Tent and Furniture maker, and other things I can't
                    > remember...
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Lord Johannes Machiavelli
                    > Shire of Rokkehealden
                    > Kingdom of the Middle
                    >
                    >
                    >
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