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Wooden Belt

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  • Kristine Elliott
    Twenty-one years again, I visited the V&A in London. At that point, they were building the Medieval Treasury display and so not a lot of medieval stuff was on
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 12, 2007
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      Twenty-one years again, I visited the V&A in London. At that point,
      they were building the Medieval Treasury display and so not a lot of
      medieval stuff was on view. When I first went, probably in early
      February, I saw a carved wooden belt, which if I remember correctly,
      was dated to the 12th century. I did not photograph it then, because I
      did not realized that the exhibits in that case were going to be
      rotating. When I went back later in the year, the wooden belt was
      replaced by something else. I have a very poor visual memory, but as
      far as I can remember, the wood the belt was made of was a dark wood
      and the belt was carved like a chain out of a single piece of wood. I
      think there was also foliage on some of the links.
      Has anyone seen the belt or anything like it?
      Thanks,

      Scolastica

      --
      http://www.geocities.com/souriete/

      If you can't get rid of them ugly old skeletons in the closet, at least teach
      'em how to dance funny. Billy C. Wirtz
    • Beth and Bob Matney
      Scolastica, The V&A has most (if not all) of the collection at http://images.vam.ac.uk/indexplus/page/Home.html I did a quick search on belt and did not find
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 12, 2007
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        Scolastica,

        The V&A has most (if not all) of the collection at
        http://images.vam.ac.uk/indexplus/page/Home.html
        I did a quick search on "belt" and did not find it. If you had the
        accession number....

        We also have a lot of photos from the V&A (our last trip was Aug of
        this year) and I'll see what I can find there. A lot of their
        medieval collection is out touring right now, while the construction
        is going on.

        Beth

        At 11:05 AM 11/12/2007, you wrote:
        >Twenty-one years again, I visited the V&A in London. At that point,
        >they were building the Medieval Treasury display and so not a lot of
        >medieval stuff was on view. When I first went, probably in early
        >February, I saw a carved wooden belt, which if I remember correctly,
        >was dated to the 12th century. I did not photograph it then, because I
        >did not realized that the exhibits in that case were going to be
        >rotating. When I went back later in the year, the wooden belt was
        >replaced by something else. I have a very poor visual memory, but as
        >far as I can remember, the wood the belt was made of was a dark wood
        >and the belt was carved like a chain out of a single piece of wood. I
        >think there was also foliage on some of the links.
        >Has anyone seen the belt or anything like it?
        >Thanks,
        >
        >Scolastica
      • AlbionWood
        I sent Nick Humphrey, the curator of the medieval woodwork collection, a query about this. Here is his reply: Dear Tim, Your correspondent is referring to a
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 12, 2007
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          I sent Nick Humphrey, the curator of the medieval woodwork collection, a
          query about this. Here is his reply:

          Dear Tim,

          Your correspondent is referring to a thorn wood chain or girdle,
          (museum no. W.6-1939), acquired as mid 14th century Anglo-French, but it
          is now generally thought to be a 19th century creation. I cannot readily
          find a reference to its having been published, but we have photographs
          on file. The object is currently in store.



          Kristine Elliott wrote:
          > Twenty-one years again, I visited the V&A in London. At that point,
          > they were building the Medieval Treasury display and so not a lot of
          > medieval stuff was on view. When I first went, probably in early
          > February, I saw a carved wooden belt, which if I remember correctly,
          > was dated to the 12th century. I did not photograph it then, because I
          > did not realized that the exhibits in that case were going to be
          > rotating. When I went back later in the year, the wooden belt was
          > replaced by something else. I have a very poor visual memory, but as
          > far as I can remember, the wood the belt was made of was a dark wood
          > and the belt was carved like a chain out of a single piece of wood. I
          > think there was also foliage on some of the links.
          > Has anyone seen the belt or anything like it?
          > Thanks,
          >
          > Scolastica
          >
          >
        • Bill McNutt
          Rats. I had visions of my apprentices all making wooden belts! Will _____ From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 12, 2007
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            Rats.  I had visions of my apprentices all making wooden belts!
             
            Will


            From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AlbionWood
            Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 4:54 PM
            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [SPAM] [MedievalSawdust] Wooden Belt

            I sent Nick Humphrey, the curator of the medieval woodwork collection, a
            query about this. Here is his reply:

            Dear Tim,

            Your correspondent is referring to a thorn wood chain or girdle,
            (museum no. W.6-1939), acquired as mid 14th century Anglo-French, but it
            is now generally thought to be a 19th century creation. I cannot readily
            find a reference to its having been published, but we have photographs
            on file. The object is currently in store.

            Kristine Elliott wrote:

            > Twenty-one years
            again, I visited the V&A in London. At that point,
            > they were
            building the Medieval Treasury display and so not a lot of
            > medieval
            stuff was on view. When I first went, probably in early
            > February, I saw
            a carved wooden belt, which if I remember correctly,
            > was dated to the
            12th century. I did not photograph it then, because I
            > did not realized
            that the exhibits in that case were going to be
            > rotating. When I went
            back later in the year, the wooden belt was
            > replaced by something else.
            I have a very poor visual memory, but as
            > far as I can remember, the wood
            the belt was made of was a dark wood
            > and the belt was carved like a
            chain out of a single piece of wood. I
            > think there was also foliage on
            some of the links.
            > Has anyone seen the belt or anything like it?
            >
            Thanks,
            >
            > Scolastica
            >
            >

          • Kristine Elliott
            I m not sure how to express the combination of sadness and happiness your email brought me. Sadness, of course, to find out the belt is probably 19th century,
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 12, 2007
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              I'm not sure how to express the combination of sadness and happiness
              your email brought me. Sadness, of course, to find out the belt is
              probably 19th century, and joy to find out that it really exists. Of
              course, I was sure I had seen it, but since I had been looking for
              confirmation, or another example for 21 years, it has sometimes seemed
              to me to have to be a figment of my imagination.

              I'm not sure why I never thought of writing to the V&A myself. I guess
              it is because I didn't know that there is a wood curator. Thank you so
              much for emailing him about this item on my behalf.

              Scolastica


              On 11/12/07, AlbionWood <albionwood@...> wrote:
              > I sent Nick Humphrey, the curator of the medieval woodwork collection, a
              > query about this. Here is his reply:
              >
              > Dear Tim,
              >
              > Your correspondent is referring to a thorn wood chain or girdle,
              > (museum no. W.6-1939), acquired as mid 14th century Anglo-French, but it
              > is now generally thought to be a 19th century creation. I cannot readily
              > find a reference to its having been published, but we have photographs
              > on file. The object is currently in store.
              >
              >
              >
              > Kristine Elliott wrote:
              > > Twenty-one years again, I visited the V&A in London. At that point,
              > > they were building the Medieval Treasury display and so not a lot of
              > > medieval stuff was on view. When I first went, probably in early
              > > February, I saw a carved wooden belt, which if I remember correctly,
              > > was dated to the 12th century. I did not photograph it then, because I
              > > did not realized that the exhibits in that case were going to be
              > > rotating. When I went back later in the year, the wooden belt was
              > > replaced by something else. I have a very poor visual memory, but as
              > > far as I can remember, the wood the belt was made of was a dark wood
              > > and the belt was carved like a chain out of a single piece of wood. I
              > > think there was also foliage on some of the links.
              > > Has anyone seen the belt or anything like it?
              > > Thanks,
              > >
              > > Scolastica

              --
              http://www.geocities.com/souriete/

              If you can't get rid of them ugly old skeletons in the closet, at least teach
              'em how to dance funny. Billy C. Wirtz
            • Beth and Bob Matney
              There are some very nice link belts made of ivory plates in the collection of the Topkapi (Ottoman) that are within period. I can send you a photo if that
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 12, 2007
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                There are some very nice link belts made of ivory plates in the
                collection of the Topkapi (Ottoman) that are within period. I can
                send you a photo if that would help. I don't know of any in wood, however.

                Beth

                At 04:55 PM 11/12/2007, you wrote:
                >I'm not sure how to express the combination of sadness and happiness
                >your email brought me. Sadness, of course, to find out the belt is
                >probably 19th century, and joy to find out that it really exists. Of
                >course, I was sure I had seen it, but since I had been looking for
                >confirmation, or another example for 21 years, it has sometimes seemed
                >to me to have to be a figment of my imagination.
                >
                >I'm not sure why I never thought of writing to the V&A myself. I guess
                >it is because I didn't know that there is a wood curator. Thank you so
                >much for emailing him about this item on my behalf.
                >
                >Scolastica
                >
                >
                >On 11/12/07, AlbionWood <albionwood@...> wrote:
                > > I sent Nick Humphrey, the curator of the medieval woodwork collection, a
                > > query about this. Here is his reply:
                > >
                > > Dear Tim,
                > >
                > > Your correspondent is referring to a thorn wood chain or girdle,
                > > (museum no. W.6-1939), acquired as mid 14th century Anglo-French, but it
                > > is now generally thought to be a 19th century creation. I cannot readily
                > > find a reference to its having been published, but we have photographs
                > > on file. The object is currently in store.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Kristine Elliott wrote:
                > > > Twenty-one years again, I visited the V&A in London. At that point,
                > > > they were building the Medieval Treasury display and so not a lot of
                > > > medieval stuff was on view. When I first went, probably in early
                > > > February, I saw a carved wooden belt, which if I remember correctly,
                > > > was dated to the 12th century. I did not photograph it then, because I
                > > > did not realized that the exhibits in that case were going to be
                > > > rotating. When I went back later in the year, the wooden belt was
                > > > replaced by something else. I have a very poor visual memory, but as
                > > > far as I can remember, the wood the belt was made of was a dark wood
                > > > and the belt was carved like a chain out of a single piece of wood. I
                > > > think there was also foliage on some of the links.
                > > > Has anyone seen the belt or anything like it?
                > > > Thanks,
                > > >
                > > > Scolastica
              • Kristine Elliott
                Thanks, but its OK. This has been an off-and-on 21 year search. Now that I have confirmation that it exists, I m fine. A little disappointed that it isn t
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 12, 2007
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                  Thanks, but its OK. This has been an off-and-on 21 year search. Now
                  that I have confirmation that it exists, I'm fine. A little
                  disappointed that it isn't period, but I don't feel the need for a
                  belt like that now that I know it isn't period for my persona or
                  place.

                  But I appreciate the offer.

                  Scolastica

                  On 11/12/07, Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
                  > There are some very nice link belts made of ivory plates in the
                  > collection of the Topkapi (Ottoman) that are within period. I can
                  > send you a photo if that would help. I don't know of any in wood, however.
                  >
                  > Beth
                  >
                  > At 04:55 PM 11/12/2007, you wrote:
                  > >I'm not sure how to express the combination of sadness and happiness
                  > >your email brought me. Sadness, of course, to find out the belt is
                  > >probably 19th century, and joy to find out that it really exists. Of
                  > >course, I was sure I had seen it, but since I had been looking for
                  > >confirmation, or another example for 21 years, it has sometimes seemed
                  > >to me to have to be a figment of my imagination.
                  > >
                  > >I'm not sure why I never thought of writing to the V&A myself. I guess
                  > >it is because I didn't know that there is a wood curator. Thank you so
                  > >much for emailing him about this item on my behalf.
                  > >
                  > >Scolastica
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >On 11/12/07, AlbionWood <albionwood@...> wrote:
                  > > > I sent Nick Humphrey, the curator of the medieval woodwork collection, a
                  > > > query about this. Here is his reply:
                  > > >
                  > > > Dear Tim,
                  > > >
                  > > > Your correspondent is referring to a thorn wood chain or girdle,
                  > > > (museum no. W.6-1939), acquired as mid 14th century Anglo-French, but it
                  > > > is now generally thought to be a 19th century creation. I cannot readily
                  > > > find a reference to its having been published, but we have photographs
                  > > > on file. The object is currently in store.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Kristine Elliott wrote:
                  > > > > Twenty-one years again, I visited the V&A in London. At that point,
                  > > > > they were building the Medieval Treasury display and so not a lot of
                  > > > > medieval stuff was on view. When I first went, probably in early
                  > > > > February, I saw a carved wooden belt, which if I remember correctly,
                  > > > > was dated to the 12th century. I did not photograph it then, because I
                  > > > > did not realized that the exhibits in that case were going to be
                  > > > > rotating. When I went back later in the year, the wooden belt was
                  > > > > replaced by something else. I have a very poor visual memory, but as
                  > > > > far as I can remember, the wood the belt was made of was a dark wood
                  > > > > and the belt was carved like a chain out of a single piece of wood. I
                  > > > > think there was also foliage on some of the links.
                  > > > > Has anyone seen the belt or anything like it?
                  > > > > Thanks,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Scolastica
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  --
                  http://www.geocities.com/souriete/

                  If you can't get rid of them ugly old skeletons in the closet, at least teach
                  'em how to dance funny. Billy C. Wirtz
                • Helen Schultz
                  I can t find the link right now, but Bildindex, a German artifact site, had one I think. I also took some photos of one found in a friend s book at Pennsic a
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 12, 2007
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                    I can't find the link right now, but Bildindex, a German artifact site, had one I think.  I also took some photos of one found in a friend's book at Pennsic a couple years ago (I don't recall the name of the book, but I remember it being within the Medieval period, perhaps 14th century)... when I find it on my hard drive, I will post it to my folder.
                     
                    ~~ Katarina Helene
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----

                    I'm not sure how to express the combination of sadness and happiness your email brought me. Sadness, of course, to find out the belt isprobably 19th century, and joy to find out that it really exists. Of course, I was sure I had seen it, but since I had been looking for
                    confirmation, or another example for 21 years, it has sometimes seemed to me to have to be a figment of my imagination.

                    I'm not sure why I never thought of writing to the V&A myself. I guess it is because I didn't know that there is a wood curator. Thank you so much for emailing him about this item on my behalf.

                    Scolastica

                    .

                  • Helen Schultz
                    OK, I put my photo of the belt in the Katarina Helene folder... it appears it might be the same one that is being discussed. It says it is from the V&A, and
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 12, 2007
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                      OK, I put my photo of the belt in the Katarina Helene folder... it appears it might be the same one that is being discussed.  It says it is from the V&A, and is identified as being 14th c French.  Nonetheless, it is a really cool piece <grin>.
                       
                      ~~ Katarina Helene

                    • Caley Woulfe
                      Was the belt made of links or wooden panels? I think the latter style is truly Period, but I m not sure. Caley
                      Message 10 of 12 , Nov 13, 2007
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                        Was the belt made of links or wooden panels? I think the latter style is
                        truly Period, but I'm not sure.

                        Caley
                      • Kristine Elliott
                        ... Wow, y all rock! What wonderful resources you all have. Thank you in particular, Katarina. This looks very similar, though not identical to the belt I
                        Message 11 of 12 , Nov 13, 2007
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                          On 11/12/07, Helen Schultz <helen.schultz@...> wrote:
                          OK, I put my photo of the belt in the Katarina Helene folder... it appears it might be the same one that is being discussed.  It says it is from the V&A, and is identified as being 14th c French.  Nonetheless, it is a really cool piece <grin>.
                           
                          ~~ Katarina Helene


                          Wow, y'all rock! What wonderful resources you all have. Thank you in particular, Katarina.

                          This looks very similar, though not identical to the belt I remember. On the other hand, I DO have a bad visual memory, so this is quite likely to be the belt, if there is only one of that type that is owned by the V&A.

                          Thanks,

                          Scolastica
                          --
                          http://www.geocities.com/souriete/

                          If you can't get rid of them ugly old skeletons in the closet, at least teach
                          'em how to dance funny.  Billy C. Wirtz
                        • Helen Schultz
                          You are most welcome, Scolastica. I just happened to have that photo and it sounded like what you were looking for. I still seem to recall seeing one or two
                          Message 12 of 12 , Nov 13, 2007
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                            You are most welcome, Scolastica.  I just happened to have that photo and it sounded like what you were looking for.  I still seem to recall seeing one or two wooden chains (don't know if they were belts or neck chains) in Bildindex, but I can't seem to get it to work right for some reason. One of the regular posters on the German Ren Costuming site did up a tutorial, but her link is broken, and so it the link she had to Bildindex.  The site is full of some wonderful Medieval objects, so, if you can ever figure out how to get there, be sure you have lots of time to search, and have a German dictionary handy if you don't already speak the language.
                             
                            ~~ Katarina Helene
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                             

                            On 11/12/07, Helen Schultz <helen.schultz@ comcast.net> wrote:

                            OK, I put my photo of the belt in the Katarina Helene folder... it appears it might be the same one that is being discussed.  It says it is from the V&A, and is identified as being 14th c French.  Nonetheless, it is a really cool piece <grin>.
                             
                            ~~ Katarina Helene


                            Wow, y'all rock! What wonderful resources you all have. Thank you in particular, Katarina.

                            This looks very similar, though not identical to the belt I remember. On the other hand, I DO have a bad visual memory, so this is quite likely to be the belt, if there is only one of that type that is owned by the V&A.

                            Thanks,

                            Scolastica
                            .

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