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RE: [MedievalSawdust] chip carving

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  • Rebekah d'Avignon
    That s going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might check Wayne Barton s books, I ve seen some pix of early work in there - nothing before
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 6, 2007
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      That's going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might check Wayne Barton's books, I've seen some pix of early work in there - nothing before 1300, I believe.

      Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
      I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
      (lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
      chip carving.. preferable pre-1000

      Thanks
      Beth
      .




      The quantity of "civilization" possessed by a society is not found in its sciences, technology, or "quality of life". Rather it is found in the manner in which its citizens treat each other - in which case we are just "high tech barbarians".


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    • Beth and Bob Matney
      We have taken photos of chests (of about that date) that have rondels decorating them in chip carving. Of other earlier surviving carving (such as on early
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 6, 2007
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        We have taken photos of chests (of about that date) that have rondels
        decorating them in chip carving. Of other earlier surviving carving
        (such as on early stave churches), I have not found chip carving and
        was hoping that someone else had.. given the quote from the book that
        I posted with the question. I'll check Barton's books (don't have any
        of his) and see if he has earlier examples or others that we do not
        have. Lazy I guess, looks like lots of ILL of German Holzfunde...

        BTW. There is a new book out on Holzfunde from Haithabu (wooden finds
        from Hedeby)... bit pricey with the exchange rate though.

        Holzfunde von Haithabu (Gebundene Ausgabe) von Florian Westphal.
        Gebundene Ausgabe: 248 Seiten Verlag: Wachholtz; Auflage: 1 (2007)
        Sprache: Deutsch ISBN-10: 3529014117 EUR 70,00

        Thanks,
        Beth

        At 07:30 PM 10/6/2007, you wrote:
        >That's going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might
        >check Wayne Barton's books, I've seen some pix of early work in
        >there - nothing before 1300, I believe.
        >
        >Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
        >I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
        >(lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
        >chip carving.. preferable pre-1000
        >
        >Thanks
        >Beth
      • Dale Compton
        Look for items done by Durer (sp?) He is late period but did some really good work. Most of what he did was for prints etc. Other examples of chip carving
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 7, 2007
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          Look for items done by Durer (sp?) He is late period but did some really good work. Most of what he did was for prints etc. Other examples of chip carving where on furniture. I will see if I can find some examples for you.
           
          Innis


          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney
          Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:14 AM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] chip carving

          I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
          (lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
          chip carving.. preferable pre-1000

          Thanks
          Beth

          At 11:24 PM 10/4/2007, you wrote:

          >Mangle boards were chip carved early on. In case
          you are unfamiliar,
          >a mangle board was used to press water out of
          clothing that had just
          >been washed. A wooden roller was placed upon the
          wet clothing, then
          >the mangle board was used to apply pressure to the
          roller. The
          >mangle board became a means of asking a lady to wed. By
          present her
          >with a finely carved mangle board you showed her your
          intentions
          >through the patterns of your carving - like the symbolism of
          the
          >love spoon later adopted. Do a web search to find out the earliest
          dates.
          >
          >In Magical
          Service,
          >Malaki
          >
          >-----Original Message-----
          >From:
          href="mailto:medievalsawdust%40yahoogroups.com">medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
          >[mailto:
          href="mailto:medievalsawdust%40yahoogroups.com">medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney
          >Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:00
          PM
          >To: woodworking
          >Subject: [MedievalSawdust] chip
          carving
          >
          >What are the earliest examples of chip carving in
          wood/bone/ivory
          >that you know of? Would really like to find a good
          scholarly
          >reference on the
          history...
          >
          >Thanks,
          >Beth
          >
          >On page 22
          of
          >Laing, Lloyd Robert, and Jennifer Laing. Early English Art
          and
          >Architecture: Archaeology and Society. Stroud,
          Gloucestershire
          >[England]: Sutton Pub, 1996. ISBN:0750904623
          9780750904629 OCLC:35360600
          >
          >"The first manifestations of
          Anglo-Saxon art may be termed the
          >Vermand style, after a cemetery in
          France in which examples of it are
          >well represented (81). The style
          employs chip-carving - a technique
          >derived from woodworking, originally
          developed, like so many Germanic
          >decorative techniques, around the head
          of the Black Sea. This became
          >widespread along the Roman frontier in
          Germany, where it was taken up
          >by Germanic troops in the Roman
          army."
          >
          >footnote 81: "Evison, 1965, useful general
          discussion."
          >Evison, Vera I. The Fifth-Century Invasions South of the
          Thames.
          >[London]: University of London, Athlone Press, 1965.
          OCLC:1354130
          >
          >

        • Rebekah d'Avignon
          You may be talking about An Introduction to the History of the Woodcut (Vols I & II). I got mine from eBay. Dale Compton wrote:
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 7, 2007
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            You may be talking about An Introduction to the History of the Woodcut (Vols I & II). I got mine from eBay.

            Dale Compton <DComptonjr@...> wrote:
            Look for items done by Durer (sp?) He is late period but did some really good work. Most of what he did was for prints etc. Other examples of chip carving where on furniture. I will see if I can find some examples for you.
             
            Innis
            .




            The quantity of "civilization" possessed by a society is not found in its sciences, technology, or "quality of life". Rather it is found in the manner in which its citizens treat each other - in which case we are just "high tech barbarians".


            Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
            Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

          • Jan-Simon Hoogschagen
            As far as I know, chip carving does not exist on early medieval furniture and other surviving pieces. At least, I have not seen it mentioned in the books, or
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 8, 2007
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              As far as I know, chip carving does not exist on early medieval
              furniture and other surviving pieces. At least, I have not seen it
              mentioned in the books, or saw pictures of it.
              As already said in this discussion, it does appear on chests from the
              13th / 14th century.
              I will check the book by Florian Westphal this evening (beautiful book
              by the way), when I am back home to see if I have not missed any chip
              carvings. Will also go through Barbara Grodde's book on early medieval
              furniture, just in case.

              best wishes,
              Jan-Simon

              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Beth and Bob Matney
              <bmatney@...> wrote:
              >
              > We have taken photos of chests (of about that date) that have rondels
              > decorating them in chip carving. Of other earlier surviving carving
              > (such as on early stave churches), I have not found chip carving and
              > was hoping that someone else had.. given the quote from the book that
              > I posted with the question. I'll check Barton's books (don't have any
              > of his) and see if he has earlier examples or others that we do not
              > have. Lazy I guess, looks like lots of ILL of German Holzfunde...
              >
              > BTW. There is a new book out on Holzfunde from Haithabu (wooden finds
              > from Hedeby)... bit pricey with the exchange rate though.
              >
              > Holzfunde von Haithabu (Gebundene Ausgabe) von Florian Westphal.
              > Gebundene Ausgabe: 248 Seiten Verlag: Wachholtz; Auflage: 1 (2007)
              > Sprache: Deutsch ISBN-10: 3529014117 EUR 70,00
              >
              > Thanks,
              > Beth
              >
              > At 07:30 PM 10/6/2007, you wrote:
              > >That's going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might
              > >check Wayne Barton's books, I've seen some pix of early work in
              > >there - nothing before 1300, I believe.
              > >
              > >Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
              > >I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
              > >(lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
              > >chip carving.. preferable pre-1000
              > >
              > >Thanks
              > >Beth
              >
            • kjworz@comcast.net
              A lot would depend on your definition of chip carving. Does it have to be in wood? What we recognize today as chip carving has roots in the styles that matured
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 8, 2007
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                A lot would depend on your definition of chip carving.

                Does it have to be in wood?

                What we recognize today as chip carving has roots in the styles that matured in Switzerland post period.

                Every treatise I read about Chip Carving always say that "is an ancient method of decoration" but never cites examples. Citations, the lack thereof, is a bane to our research.

                Links
                http://www.caithness.org/community/crafts/chipcarving/McIvorandAllen.htm
                cites especially the geometric carving influence from Islam

                http://www.fifulls.com/site/837579/page/45030

                --
                -Chris Schwartz
                Silver Spring, MD

                -------------- Original message ----------------------
                From: "Jan-Simon Hoogschagen" <jan-simon@...>
                > As far as I know, chip carving does not exist on early medieval
                > furniture and other surviving pieces. At least, I have not seen it
                > mentioned in the books, or saw pictures of it.
                > As already said in this discussion, it does appear on chests from the
                > 13th / 14th century.
                > I will check the book by Florian Westphal this evening (beautiful book
                > by the way), when I am back home to see if I have not missed any chip
                > carvings. Will also go through Barbara Grodde's book on early medieval
                > furniture, just in case.
                >
                > best wishes,
                > Jan-Simon
                >
                > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Beth and Bob Matney
                > <bmatney@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > We have taken photos of chests (of about that date) that have rondels
                > > decorating them in chip carving. Of other earlier surviving carving
                > > (such as on early stave churches), I have not found chip carving and
                > > was hoping that someone else had.. given the quote from the book that
                > > I posted with the question. I'll check Barton's books (don't have any
                > > of his) and see if he has earlier examples or others that we do not
                > > have. Lazy I guess, looks like lots of ILL of German Holzfunde...
                > >
                > > BTW. There is a new book out on Holzfunde from Haithabu (wooden finds
                > > from Hedeby)... bit pricey with the exchange rate though.
                > >
                > > Holzfunde von Haithabu (Gebundene Ausgabe) von Florian Westphal.
                > > Gebundene Ausgabe: 248 Seiten Verlag: Wachholtz; Auflage: 1 (2007)
                > > Sprache: Deutsch ISBN-10: 3529014117 EUR 70,00
                > >
                > > Thanks,
                > > Beth
                > >
                > > At 07:30 PM 10/6/2007, you wrote:
                > > >That's going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might
                > > >check Wayne Barton's books, I've seen some pix of early work in
                > > >there - nothing before 1300, I believe.
                > > >
                > > >Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
                > > >I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
                > > >(lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
                > > >chip carving.. preferable pre-1000
                > > >
                > > >Thanks
                > > >Beth
                > >
                >
                >
                >
              • Bruce S. R. Lee
                In stone, do a search on Jesus Family Tomb - at least one of the ossuaries has chip carved rosettes. Photos are in the May/June 2007 (vol 18 No.3) issue of
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 8, 2007
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                  In stone, do a search on 'Jesus Family Tomb' - at least one of the
                  ossuaries has 'chip' carved rosettes. Photos are in the May/June 2007
                  (vol 18 No.3) issue of Minerva, if you local library gets it.

                  There are a lot of 'chip' carved designs in stone from the
                  'Classical' world, just that the amount of surviving wood is very
                  limited. I'll have to do a quick search of my Roman woodworking books
                  to see if anything survived from Herculaneum.


                  regards
                  Brusi of Orkney
                  Rowany/Lochac
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