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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Some thoughts on this judging question

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  • James Winkler
    ... events. Consider limiting the categories to the ones for which you can find judges.
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 7, 2007
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      >> Consider diversifying the competitions across all
      kingdom
      events. Consider limiting the categories to the ones for which you
      can find judges. <<
       
      Hummm... 
       
      #1:  Like it... cool idea.
       
      #2:  Can-o-worms...  I can hear the "you don't love me anymore" arguments warming up in the whining section...  and the "but they got a COOLER event to show their stuff (ie "... the Crown wasn't at mine") than WE get to show OUR stuff...
       
      In spirit I'm with ya'... but I'd hate to be the KMOAS that tries to do it...
       
      If ya' REALLY want the best way to get yer stuff out there...  eschew (cool word, eh?) the competitions...  ain't no real way to compare pieces anyway unless everybody makes the same thing... or at least stays in roughly the same culture/time period...  the BEST way for an artisan to get what they're looking for is to get out there and DO IT.   Set up demos... set up classes... sit by yer' pavillion makin' something.  Set up a craftsman's display where you show off yer' stuff while showing people HOW to make it.  You will get noticed... you will attract like mined craftsmen (who we all know all have their own opinions on how good ya' did and how they would have done it differently..  )...  and, with luck... you'll inspire some other craftsman out there to do ya' one better... and then the fun begins.
       
      I think part of the problem is that everybody is looking for a way to be seen... and not so much really the competition.  How do you compare one of my ol' 6 board chests to a viking wagon???  Who wins?  Any evaluation would have to involve some foundation for comparison.   Oh, yea... you can do the *rating game*... things are scored against some abstract yardstick (common to many "A&S competitions"... but what does it mean in the end?
       
      Nope... again, as my ol' buddy Avery sez', "It ain't a competition... it's an EXHIBITION." 
       
      Become an exhibitionist and you'll get all the feedback yer' heart desires... and you'll get it from enough people to make a proper evaluation of your efforts rather than the random sampling of an A&S Faire.
       
      Chas.
    • Tracy Swanson
      That is already a problem. By adapting methods such as these you would at least know, more or less, what levels the instructors are, for they were asked to
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 7, 2007
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        That is already a problem. By adapting methods such as these you would at least know, more or less, what levels the instructors are, for they were asked to teach in the first place. If they are not up to judging, they do not have to participate in that area.
         
        I too enjoy competition, for it allows me to se other people's work, as well as getting at least some constructive criticism. The problem with not having competitions are manyfold. It offers a chance to have many various artists in the same time/space continuum, encouraging those and other artists to get out there and create. Sure, you can have shows that so the same thing, but how will you then select an A&S Champion, as most baronies do? The truth is, more people will show up for a competition than for a show due to the potential for recognition and prizes. Too many artists of the current age go unnoticed, and I have yet to find a patron, for those too are in seriously short supply these days. Probably only some of the reasons why we do the competitions
         
        In Magical Service,
        Malaki
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of THL Isaac MacDaniel
        Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 10:57 AM
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Some thoughts on this judging question

        The real problem is while some people are qualified to teach a introduction level class they may not be qualified to judge a complex entry. They may know how to make starting leave project but don't know about the time period or country  ...etc.

        In service
        Isaac MacDaniel

        Tracy Swanson wrote:

        My thought was that if you have artisans teaching classes, those classes are pre-arranged. If the classes are pre-arranged, you know what areas are available for judging - just rope the teachers into judging. Use what you have. If your class line-up consists of a carver, a costumer, an illuminator and a researcher, then the competitions would be open to carving, garb, illumination and historical research. In this way all of the open categories will have a proper judge who knows his or her subject. For any items outside of the fields, have an A&S show. All it takes is a bit of pre-planning. When asking the various artisans if they will teach, also ask if they are willing to judge. If the competition runs all day long, as most of them do, the judges will have the opportunity to review the work when not teaching classes.
         
        As an artisan, I would be willing to put forth that much extra effort and I believe that most others would as well, especially if they are forewarned.
         
        In Magical Service,
        Malaki
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:medievalsaw dust@yahoogroups .com]On Behalf Of Bill McNutt
        Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:51 PM
        To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
        Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Some thoughts on this judging question

        How do you do that?  Fairecrats in Meridies are always beating the bushes for judges in advance, yet still have to fill categories right up until the last moment.

        Will


        From: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:medievalsaw dust@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Tracy Swanson
        Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 1:48 AM
        To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
        Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Some thoughts on this judging question

        It is true that you cannot please everyone, but there is another possible solution:

        What if the person in charge of A&S at a given event were to pre-arrange the judges and restrict the competition to the areas of the judge's expertise? Admittedly it would take more planning on the part of the A&S-o-crat, but at least those who entered would be assured of being judged by someone who knows more than a little something about the subject. Perhaps such competitions could and should be part of the King's College? At least at that event there would be a higher than usual number of "experts".

        Just a thought...

        In Magical Service,

        Malaki


      • Rhys Terafan Greydragon
        Greetings all from Terafan, ... other ... You are absolutely right! This is where I have had some of the most fun and created some of the coolest stuff! For
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 9, 2007
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          Greetings all from Terafan,
           
             Master Charles said:
           
          >...get out there and
          DO IT.   ...  and, with luck... you'll inspire some other
          > craftsman out
          there to do ya' one better... and then the fun begins.
           
          You are absolutely right!   This is where I have had some of the most fun and created some of the coolest stuff!  
           
          For about 10 years, I have had running "make spiff stuff" competitions with both Sir Kragon (from the Outlands) and Sir Dafydd ap Gwystl (from Atlantia).  They do one thing, and show it to me.  It is really cool, and I say "Wow !  That rocks! " ... but then I think that if if I *did X* then I could make one even spiffier and so I go off and do that.  Later on, I make some other cool item, and show it to them, and I can hear the gears in their minds going "Wow!  That rocks! ... but if I did X then I could make one even spiffier" and *they* go do that. 
           
          Nobody else cares except us, but *we* each like the encouragement to make our encampments spiffier, and we get all sorts of praise and wondrous comments whenever someone else comes wandering through the encampment checking things out. 
           
          cheers,
             Terafan
           
          Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon    terafan@...
          Brewer, Tent and Furniture makers, and other things I can't remember...
           
           

          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Winkler
          Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 3:05 PM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Some thoughts on this judging question

          >> Consider diversifying the competitions across all
          kingdom
          events. Consider limiting the categories to the ones for which you
          can find judges. <<
           
          Hummm... 
           
          #1:  Like it... cool idea.
           
          #2:  Can-o-worms. ..  I can hear the "you don't love me anymore" arguments warming up in the whining section...  and the "but they got a COOLER event to show their stuff (ie "... the Crown wasn't at mine") than WE get to show OUR stuff...
           
          In spirit I'm with ya'... but I'd hate to be the KMOAS that tries to do it...
           
          If ya' REALLY want the best way to get yer stuff out there...  eschew (cool word, eh?) the competitions. ..  ain't no real way to compare pieces anyway unless everybody makes the same thing... or at least stays in roughly the same culture/time period...  the BEST way for an artisan to get what they're looking for is to get out there and DO IT.   Set up demos... set up classes... sit by yer' pavillion makin' something.  Set up a craftsman's display where you show off yer' stuff while showing people HOW to make it.  You will get noticed... you will attract like mined craftsmen (who we all know all have their own opinions on how good ya' did and how they would have done it differently. .  )...  and, with luck... you'll inspire some other craftsman out there to do ya' one better... and then the fun begins.
           
          I think part of the problem is that everybody is looking for a way to be seen... and not so much really the competition.  How do you compare one of my ol' 6 board chests to a viking wagon???  Who wins?  Any evaluation would have to involve some foundation for comparison.   Oh, yea... you can do the *rating game*... things are scored against some abstract yardstick (common to many "A&S competitions" ... but what does it mean in the end?
           
          Nope... again, as my ol' buddy Avery sez', "It ain't a competition. .. it's an EXHIBITION." 
           
          Become an exhibitionist and you'll get all the feedback yer' heart desires... and you'll get it from enough people to make a proper evaluation of your efforts rather than the random sampling of an A&S Faire.
           
          Chas.

        • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
          This kinda thing can also go into the area of SCA-useful.... ( you can t document it, you can t enter an A&S competition with it.... but who cares it s just
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 9, 2007
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            This kinda thing can also go into the area of
            SCA-useful.... ( you can't document it, you can't
            enter an A&S competition with it.... but who cares
            it's just too cool not to do....)

            I love SCA-useful.



             
            Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

            Aude Aliquid Dignum
            ' Dare Something Worthy '


            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Rhys Terafan Greydragon <terafan@...>
            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2007 10:33:00 AM
            Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Some thoughts on this judging question

            Greetings all from Terafan,
             
               Master Charles said:
             
            >...get out there and
            DO IT.   ....  and, with luck... you'll inspire some other
            > craftsman out
            there to do ya' one better... and then the fun begins.
             
            You are absolutely right!   This is where I have had some of the most fun and created some of the coolest stuff!  
             
            For about 10 years, I have had running "make spiff stuff" competitions with both Sir Kragon (from the Outlands) and Sir Dafydd ap Gwystl (from Atlantia).  They do one thing, and show it to me.  It is really cool, and I say "Wow !  That rocks! " ... but then I think that if if I *did X* then I could make one even spiffier and so I go off and do that.  Later on, I make some other cool item, and show it to them, and I can hear the gears in their minds going "Wow!  That rocks! ... but if I did X then I could make one even spiffier" and *they* go do that. 
             
            Nobody else cares except us, but *we* each like the encouragement to make our encampments spiffier, and we get all sorts of praise and wondrous comments whenever someone else comes wandering through the encampment checking things out. 
             
            cheers,
               Terafan
             
            Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon    terafan@greydragon. org
            Brewer, Tent and Furniture makers, and other things I can't remember...
             
             

            From: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:medievalsaw dust@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of James Winkler
            Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 3:05 PM
            To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
            Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Some thoughts on this judging question

            >> Consider diversifying the competitions across all kingdom
            events. Consider limiting the categories to the ones for which you
            can find judges. <<
             
            Hummm... 
             
            #1:  Like it... cool idea.
             
            #2:  Can-o-worms. ..  I can hear the "you don't love me anymore" arguments warming up in the whining section...  and the "but they got a COOLER event to show their stuff (ie "... the Crown wasn't at mine") than WE get to show OUR stuff...
             
            In spirit I'm with ya'... but I'd hate to be the KMOAS that tries to do it...
             
            If ya' REALLY want the best way to get yer stuff out there...  eschew (cool word, eh?) the competitions. ..  ain't no real way to compare pieces anyway unless everybody makes the same thing... or at least stays in roughly the same culture/time period...  the BEST way for an artisan to get what they're looking for is to get out there and DO IT.   Set up demos... set up classes... sit by yer' pavillion makin' something.  Set up a craftsman's display where you show off yer' stuff while showing people HOW to make it.  You will get noticed... you will attract like mined craftsmen (who we all know all have their own opinions on how good ya' did and how they would have done it differently. .  )...  and, with luck... you'll inspire some other craftsman out there to do ya' one better... and then the fun begins.
             
            I think part of the problem is that everybody is looking for a way to be seen... and not so much really the competition.  How do you compare one of my ol' 6 board chests to a viking wagon???  Who wins?  Any evaluation would have to involve some foundation for comparison.   Oh, yea... you can do the *rating game*... things are scored against some abstract yardstick (common to many "A&S competitions" ... but what does it mean in the end?
             
            Nope... again, as my ol' buddy Avery sez', "It ain't a competition. .. it's an EXHIBITION." 
             
            Become an exhibitionist and you'll get all the feedback yer' heart desires... and you'll get it from enough people to make a proper evaluation of your efforts rather than the random sampling of an A&S Faire.
             
            Chas.




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