Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Permanent Sites

Expand Messages
  • Tracie Brown
    ... The West Kingdom land fund has been around for decades, and has not kept pace with the cost of land. I have long maintained that another avenue we should
    Message 1 of 3 , Aug 26, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      >It would not be unreasonable to do much the same
      >thing as to buying land and erecting buildings
      >in various large kingdoms and baronies within the SCA.
      >
      >I have heard of a Kingdom site fund in the West Kingdom ...

      The West Kingdom land fund has been around for decades,
      and has not kept pace with the cost of land. I have long
      maintained that another avenue we should investigate for long
      term (not "permanent") sites are long-term leases. A number
      of larger renaissance faires are held on leased rather than
      owned properties, or (in the case of Maryland) on properties
      purchased after leasing. The US Army Corps of Engineers
      leases sites around some of their projects to non-profits on
      low cost 99-year leases. It is common in this part of the US
      to lease land for hunting camps from timber companies, and an
      SCA member in Alabama has recently purchased 60 or 80 acres
      adjoining a national forest with plans for a permanent site.

      I started investigating leases in the Hartwell Lake
      project on the border between Georgia and South Carolina with
      and eye toward a site that could be used by various living
      history groups, but the process came to a halt after 9/11 --
      the people I was working with were tasked with various
      security-related projects involving the various Corps
      projects. It should be time to start investigating again,
      however. The Hartwell project is reviewing its leases
      because some of the sites are being used improperly (for
      permanent residences) and some have not been used at all.

      So, how many acres would be reasonable for a primitive
      living history camp? What sort of permanent facilities would
      be required? Or nice to have? Right now I'm using an
      existing Boy Scout camp as a model -- it has one building and
      one roofed pavilion, port-a-jons (regular and handicapped),
      cold running water, scattered campsites with fire pits, a
      boat dock, a parking lot and a permanent manager living on
      site. And a gorgeous view of the lake.

      -- Signy
    • Caley Woulfe
      You might be interested in the Tirion castle project in Talladega, Alabama. We are buliding an SCA/living history museum/castle and we have a list for it.
      Message 2 of 3 , Aug 26, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        You might be interested in the Tirion castle project in Talladega, Alabama.
        We are buliding an SCA/living history museum/castle and we have a list for
        it. Check it out:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TirionCastle/?yguid=144789401


        Caoillainn De Bhulbh, She-wolf of Limerick
        "If Normal is relative, it must be a very distant relative..."
      • rmhowe
        ... This discussion originally started on one of the Regia lists and has also being had for quite some time periodically on the Authenticity@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 3 , Aug 26, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          >> Magnus wrote:
          >>It would not be unreasonable to do much the same
          >>thing as to buying land and erecting buildings
          >>in various large kingdoms and baronies within the SCA.
          >>
          >>I have heard of a Kingdom site fund in the West Kingdom ...

          > Tracie Brown wrote:
          > The West Kingdom land fund has been around for decades,
          > and has not kept pace with the cost of land.

          This discussion originally started on one of the Regia
          lists and has also being had for quite some time periodically
          on the Authenticity@yahoogroups.com list as the listowner
          is in the process of financing and planning a site.
          BHFI I believe. Some place in the Mid-west.

          > I have long
          > maintained that another avenue we should investigate for long
          > term (not "permanent") sites are long-term leases. A number
          > of larger renaissance faires are held on leased rather than
          > owned properties, or (in the case of Maryland) on properties
          > purchased after leasing. The US Army Corps of Engineers
          > leases sites around some of their projects to non-profits on
          > low cost 99-year leases. It is common in this part of the US
          > to lease land for hunting camps from timber companies, and an
          > SCA member in Alabama has recently purchased 60 or 80 acres
          > adjoining a national forest with plans for a permanent site.

          That is a very interesting idea. One has to keep in mind
          though that eventually the land owner will own any permanent
          structure unless you are obligated to take it down.
          In our state - North Carolina - it cannot be removed
          without the landlord's consent. The Hong Kong 150 year
          forced lease eventually ran out. Still that was well
          past their time. They probably had no idea what it
          actually would become with time. Our remote areas
          are becoming much more metropolitan here now in
          the Chapel Hill/Durham/Raleigh, NC area.

          > I started investigating leases in the Hartwell Lake
          > project on the border between Georgia and South Carolina with
          > and eye toward a site that could be used by various living
          > history groups, but the process came to a halt after 9/11 --
          > the people I was working with were tasked with various
          > security-related projects involving the various Corps
          > projects. It should be time to start investigating again,
          > however. The Hartwell project is reviewing its leases
          > because some of the sites are being used improperly (for
          > permanent residences) and some have not been used at all.

          We have Federal Parks on two of our large reservoirs
          here that are relatively new. Unfortunately the State
          Park nearby is right in the middle of the high value
          area for business and airporting. Research Triangle and all.

          We know that someone would have to live on site and
          that it will have to be maintained/mowed regularly.
          My thought was a retired military couple.
          Fort Bragg and Seymour Johnson Air Force Base aren't
          too far and they have lots of retirees who were formerly
          responsible folks on government pensions. Looking after
          something in return for housing might look good to
          someone who is good for us to have.

          > So, how many acres would be reasonable for a primitive
          > living history camp? What sort of permanent facilities would
          > be required? Or nice to have?

          Depends on how large you can afford and forsee the project
          needing. If one intended to hold a regional war then one
          would need more facilities and land. To begin with around
          here we need a site for at least 600 currently once or
          more times per year.

          > Right now I'm using an
          > existing Boy Scout camp as a model -- it has one building and
          > one roofed pavilion, port-a-jons (regular and handicapped),
          > cold running water, scattered campsites with fire pits, a
          > boat dock, a parking lot and a permanent manager living on
          > site. And a gorgeous view of the lake.
          >
          > -- Signy

          I had an hour discussion with another interested party here
          this morning. What would be initially important is the
          kitchen/bathrooms/showers area and to begin to build out
          from there further down the building's length as needed.
          The pipes would have to be warm during the winter or
          drained. I'm thinking propane tanks initially.

          I like the Australian idea of a timberframed building with
          short upper story walls under a 12/12 roof maximizing space.
          Lochac has a timberframe already up on a site put together
          by SCA affilliated members.

          However, timberframes are expensive, so I think standard
          framing with Hardi-board (a cement and paper mix) that has
          a stucco finish for the exterior walls painted parchment
          or off-white for the wall framing's simulated infill
          whose joints would be covered with 1x4" or 6" chocolate
          or black paint for the simulated timber framing as we
          could afford to expand it.

          Hardiboard and Hardi-plank have a 25 year guarantee.
          Termites have no interest in it. I've built a yard
          building on the same principles using as heavy framing
          as a standard structure due to size affecting building
          code and the possibility of tree falls. So I have used it.
          It screws to the framing with special cement board
          screws similar to sheetrock screws but with cutting
          teeth under the heads.

          The Roof for the main hall area could go up first and be
          used as a screened in area until we have time and funds
          to enclose it. They now make asphalt shingles with 25
          or thirty year warranties that resemble the finish of
          traditional wood shingled roofs. Pretty low maintenance
          actually.

          Doing such things we would end up with a sort-of timber
          framed later medieval look at a reasonable cost in
          a manner that we could expand.

          In my case the windows of the yard building and it's
          door were done in simulated diamond fashion by cutting
          the window film into a framework, spray painting the diamond
          window frame in place, removing the film, and for privacy
          I had tried sandblasting two of them first and sprayed the
          other two after painting the frame with a [bathroom glass]
          simulated etched glass spray you can buy at your local
          Home Depot. The look was -very- similar either way.

          Of course on the main hall you would like to see out.
          Perhaps glass painters or stained glass artists would
          like to decorate some of them. Say behind high table.

          The lower part of my 2 x 10" floor base banding was covered
          with a chocolate colored brown aluminum flashing which
          extended below the hardi-plank and the overlaying
          simulated framing To make for a cohesive look. The
          color of the flashing determined the framing color for
          us. There are horizontal boards at appropriate places
          much as one would find them on a real timber-framed
          building. The only problem I have had with this system
          is the resin in some knots baking out in the hot
          southern summer through the paint. We did spray them
          with shellac first to prevent bleeding, so not all
          the knots have been a problem. Maybe five percent.

          The inside could be sheetrocked fairly quickly and
          top coated with a stucco finish that you wouldn't
          need to sand as much as regular sheetrock in order to
          get the feel of wattle and daub plaster overlay.
          Simply mount interior framing over the joints
          and across the ceiling. Caulk the seams and paint.

          I saw a really neat idea in The Archeology of York
          the Small Finds 17/15 Craft, Industry, and Everyday
          Life: Finds from Medieval York. Avaiable from
          http://www.oxbowbooks.com/ or the York Archaeological
          Trust. In this case there were cast fleur-de-lys
          and golden painted twisted star made to adorn
          ceilings and walls. I have seen many medieval ceilings
          in my books and Blue background with Golden Stars
          makes a lovely ceiling. On others the main beams were
          painted with various designs, including people. ;)
          These don't have to be real, they can be applied.
          In fact the stars or the fleur-de-lys could almost
          as easily be cast in an rtv rubber mold of plaster
          and applied. The metal ones were nailed in.

          If the building were built into a slope the underside
          could serve as a storage basement while the top floor
          could be resident caretaker and general dormitory/indoor
          workshop for the group.

          If precious things are removed and locked on the upper
          floor and storage is beneath the lower then you can
          have a hall rentable for various group activities when
          you are not using it for your own group's uses.

          A summer day camp for kids.

          A site for a medieval/renaissance faire [We have three
          here in NC in Asheville, Charlotte, and Raleigh. The
          Charlotte one lasts eight weekends.]

          A rental hall for weekly bingo shared with a non-profit
          charity or church, which is what I understand the
          Denver group has done. One Legion Hall had a member
          I worked with and they [3] apparently took in enough
          every bingo nite they were pocketing $100 each per night.
          I mean if you have the potential to make that much
          to sidetrack, the real money must have been amazing.
          That is in rather a small community too. Haven't seen
          him since we both disabled nine years ago. Statute of
          limitations and all...

          Wars with neighboring baronies/kingdoms.
          Alternate medieval groups could use the site as well.
          I really don't think anyone wants SCA, Inc. managing
          anything. On the other hand we have core SCA members
          who are devout medievalists.

          It would be very nice if we had all amenities
          on a central site that we needed for our events
          and didn't have to haul them everywhere or take
          things like tents down immediately in unfortunate
          weather. All the cooking and serving vessels and a
          place to prepare the feasts central to our area.
          Less movement and hurry for everyone.
          A cap on rising event costs for sites that are growing
          too small too fast.

          22 years ago my barony had 30-40 members.
          Now it is closer to 500 and for larger kingdom
          events hosted here it is getting simply too large
          for many sites.

          A Retreat available for those needing some space.
          My sister in law regularly attends one called
          Snail's Pace.

          An event site rentable for companies/churches' holidays.

          For example the camping ground could be used as
          a ballfield, the archery area could be used
          prior to hunting season by bowhunters who have
          scant else in my area anymore to shoot. When I
          was much younger I shot both tournament and
          field target archery courses strung through
          the woods. So could they.

          The eric, or fighting field, could become a
          badminton or volley ball court during rentals.
          I have an image of one surrounded by an open roofed area.
          One quarter or two ends of which could be two story for
          the high ladies and lords seats much like the scenes
          of the tournaments in the Manesse Codex.

          I also have an idea of the back of the covered
          area in some places housing such things as
          an armor workshop, a smithy, woodworking stuff, etc.
          Localized merchants could even have permanent booths.

          Regular canton or Baronial workshops could be held
          there for anything from tentmaking to beading,
          to dance, to garb and armor-making. We have five
          Cantons in our very cohesive large Barony and
          many more members in outlying areas.

          Magnus
          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
          -------- Original Message --------
          >Subject: Re: [medievalsawdust] Permanent Sites
          >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 09:43:56 -0500
          >From: "Caley Woulfe" <caoillainn@...>
          >Reply-To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          >To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
          >References: <bbbfbd72.b97715b3.830f700@...>

          > You might be interested in the Tirion castle project in
          > Talladega, Alabama. We are buliding an SCA/living
          > history museum/castle and we have a list for it. Check it out:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TirionCastle/?yguid=144789401

          Thank You.
          Magnus

          > Caoillainn De Bhulbh, She-wolf of Limerick
          > "If Normal is relative, it must be a very distant relative..."
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.