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Re: [MedievalSawdust] New Guy looking for a place to start

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  • Rebekah d'Avignon
    As with all things.....it depends. One good starting place is making a decision whether you want to work with hand tools exclusively, a combination of
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 17, 2007
      As with all things.....it depends. One good starting place is making a decision whether you want to work with hand tools exclusively, a combination of hand/power tools, or mostly power tools. The "only hand tools" (or mostly) route is probably the cheapest starting place. I'm assuming that you are more interested in the "making things" area than the "making period things the period way" area. Before buying any tools, you should probably read all of Roy Underhill's books - most libraries have them on loan. And watch his show (The Woodwright's Shop on PBS) if it's available. He talks a lot about why things work the way they do and why wood is cut this way and not that way without getting too technical. His books and show will also give you some simple projects that shouldn't be beyond the skill of a beginner even though he is more 18th & 19th century tools/projects. And his ideas of pegged tenon joints makes sense over what I've been taught. Unless you are in an A&S competition, 99.5% of the people aren't going to "read you the riot act" if your bench isn't absolutely "period" style and materials.
       
      I'm sure that many here will disagree with me, but I put more emphasis on learning the skill than depending on high-priced tools to compensate for lack of skills (not that I'm a master craftsman or a Laurel). You might also want to subscribe to a woodworking magazine or two. They generally have good articles and advice. One recently had a small article entitled "A Dovetail a Day" where the author cut one (and only one) dovetail joint each day for a month. Each one was dated with a pen and set aside. At the end of the month the joints were compared and the author saw a significant improvement in his/her skill.
       
      Another area for disagreement is the quality of tools being bought for first-timers. A $2500 lathe will last longer and do better work than an $89 table-mounted one, but you can always use the cheaper one at first, learn the skills and good habits, and upgrade later. It's the same with all tools. On another list I was told to not buy the $100 Delta table saw, but rather save up and spring for a $750 contractor's saw because it was a better saw. But the suggestion came from a guy who regularly cuts to 1/32 of an inch tolerance or even 1/64". Your local "box store" (Lowe's, Menard's, Home Depot) will have a LOT of hand/power tools that will do the job for a decent price. Irwin's Blue Handle chisels were rated a "best buy for the money" by a magazine.....any Stanley or Irwin chisels will be good (less than $10/set). You will also need to learn to sharpen your chisels, gouges, plane irons, etc, but you don't need a $100 wheel (pay attention to the speed) to sharpen them. Some people use a wheel, some use finer and finer grits of sandpaper, I use a set of stones....nothing wrong with any of these - it mostly depends on what you have to work with and what your preferences are.

      invioletlight_34 <invioletlight_34@...> wrote:
      Hi, my name is Al I hail from the Barony of Ramshaven Kingdom of
      Ealdormere. I'm very new to the SCA and looking for some beginner
      projects and ideas for beginner tools to make said projects with
      aswell as some resources and places to go for more woodworking advice
      and projects




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    • James Winkler
      Hey Al... welcome aboard. Some years ago I put up a bunch of my plans at www.medievalwood.org/charles Most of these
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 17, 2007
        Hey Al...  welcome aboard.
         
        Some years ago I put up a bunch of my plans at www.medievalwood.org/charles
         
        Most of these projects aren't all that difficult to make and are based on medieval pieces.  They have all been used in an SCA context (read: *survived camping*) and can be made with a fairly minimal tool set.  If you're just looking for projects you might find something interesting there to make.
         
        A number of the folks on this list have various design sets out there... but a good way to start to kinda' figure out what ya' need to support your "time and place" persona.   Look through books relating to the time/culture of your persona and then kinda' figure out what you'd like to add to your kit...  if you have something specific you'd like to build and have questions... pop it out on this list... *somebody* is probably going to have run into something similar to what you're interested in... and can point ya' in a right direction.
         
        I'd also recommend looking into some basic books on joints and the various methods of how to stick two boards together in a more than semi-permanent way...  a good foundation in the foundations makes *reverse engineering* what you see in the pictures a bit easier.  There will always be some parts that you can't see and may have to ad lib... but a good knowledge of basic construction can give you a good let up on *seeing with understanding* when you look a picture of a medieval chest, bed or whatever.
         
        Yours -
        Chas.
         
        ==================================
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:29 AM
        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] New Guy looking for a place to start

        Hi, my name is Al I hail from the Barony of Ramshaven Kingdom of
        Ealdormere. I'm very new to the SCA and looking for some beginner
        projects and ideas for beginner tools to make said projects with
        aswell as some resources and places to go for more woodworking advice
        and projects

      • julian wilson
        Matthew Baker unto Master Charles Oakley, Greetings Good Master Charles, I do commend me unto you, and beg to advise you that I have just finished-off another
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 17, 2007
          Matthew Baker
          unto Master Charles Oakley,
          Greetings
           
          Good Master Charles,
          I do commend me unto you, and beg to advise you that I have just finished-off another "quick & dirty" version of your Banner Stand. ["quick & dirty" - means no "turned" parts - I don't have a lathe or the time]
          I shall be posting a couple of pictures in "Mathew Baker's Album" at the Medieval Encampments List. wherein interested Parties may see other things I've made for my "period encampment", since beginning from nothing, in May, 2003..
           
          Yours in Service, with many thanks for your inspiration,
           Matthew,
          in "old" Jersey.

        • James Winkler
          Most worth Matthew... Q&D is good... I ve often thought it would be fun to do a Q&D and then pass off the squarish top to a carver with the simple injunction
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 17, 2007
            Most worth Matthew...
             
            Q&D is good...  Winking smiley emoticon  
             
             
            I've often thought it would be fun to do a Q&D and then pass off the squarish top to a carver with the simple injunction "embellish this please"...  just to see what they come up with....   I look forward to seeing the pictures...
             
            Chas.
          • julian wilson
            James Winkler wrote: Most worth Matthew... Q&D is good... I ve often thought it would be fun to do a Q&D and then pass off the squarish top
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 17, 2007
              James Winkler <jrwinkler@...> wrote:
              Most worth Matthew...
               
              Q&D is good...  Winking smiley emoticon  
               
               
              I've often thought it would be fun to do a Q&D and then pass off the squarish top to a carver with the simple injunction "embellish this please"...  just to see what they come up with....   I look forward to seeing the pictures...
               
               
              .
               
              REPLYGood Master Oakley,
              I don't know any carvers, locally, -  but had considered doing a little "detailing" with my little Makita trimmer. It's a fine mini-router as well, for "light work".
              Oh, and I forgot to mention, since I made the latest Banner Stand legs from offcuts of "stair-string stuff" in construction-grade pine, rather than any hardwood - [ it was available, and free] - I've reinforced the legs across the short-grain areas, by drilling-in from above and below, and glueing-in 1/2" hardwood dowels. Drilling-out for the 28mm dia. banner-staffs with hand-held power-tools  using flat-bits is not to be recommended, - the next one I make, I'll not be so lazy and impatient; - I'll set it up well-clamped-down on my big Pillar drill, to make sure the hole follows the centreline of the top-block.
               
              YIS,
               Matthew.



            • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
              can you share the adress for the photos... I ve just made a few, and I d be interested in comparing the design. I ll try to take a picture and share it right
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 17, 2007
                can you share the adress for the photos...

                I've just made a few, and I'd be interested in comparing the design.

                I'll try to take a picture and share it right back tomorrow....


                 
                Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                Aude Aliquid Dignum
                ' Dare Something Worthy '


                ----- Original Message ----
                From: julian wilson <smnco37@...>
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 2:20:21 PM
                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Banner Stand pics & a TYVM.

                Matthew Baker
                unto Master Charles Oakley,
                Greetings
                 
                Good Master Charles,
                I do commend me unto you, and beg to advise you that I have just finished-off another "quick & dirty" version of your Banner Stand. ["quick & dirty" - means no "turned" parts - I don't have a lathe or the time]
                I shall be posting a couple of pictures in "Mathew Baker's Album" at the Medieval Encampments List. wherein interested Parties may see other things I've made for my "period encampment", since beginning from nothing, in May, 2003..
                 
                Yours in Service, with many thanks for your inspiration,
                 Matthew,
                in "old" Jersey.




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              • Tracy Swanson
                Pray, are there any turners out there who have done any offset work? My Barony of Wiesenfeuer (meaning Prairie Fire in German) has requested a set of
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 17, 2007
                  Pray, are there any turners out there who have done any offset work? My Barony of Wiesenfeuer (meaning "Prairie Fire" in German) has requested a set of flame-shaped finials for the tops of their poles on the Baronial Pavilion. There will be approximately 30 of them, so I would really like to avoid having to carve them all by hand (as suggested by one turning instructor).
                   
                  Your help is appreciated.
                  In Magical Service,
                  Malaki
                • Ralph Lindberg
                  ... requested a set ... like to ... I m afraid I agree with the instructor. I probably would rough them on the lathe, then finish with carving. Actually I
                  Message 8 of 14 , Mar 17, 2007
                    --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Tracy Swanson"
                    <tstar2000@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Pray, are there any turners out there who have done any offset work? My
                    > Barony of Wiesenfeuer (meaning "Prairie Fire" in German) has
                    requested a set
                    > of flame-shaped finials for the tops of their poles on the Baronial
                    > Pavilion. There will be approximately 30 of them, so I would really
                    like to
                    > avoid having to carve them all by hand (as suggested by one turning
                    > instructor).
                    >
                    I'm afraid I agree with the instructor. I probably would rough them
                    on the lathe, then finish with carving.
                    Actually I probably would just shape them on the lathe and leave it
                    at that...

                    Ralg
                    AnTir
                  • Tracy Swanson
                    It is a technique for shaping them that I seek. I envision a tapering teardrop-shaped finial that basically spirals as it tapers. I will have to carve each of
                    Message 9 of 14 , Mar 17, 2007
                      It is a technique for shaping them that I seek. I envision a tapering teardrop-shaped finial that basically spirals as it tapers. I will have to carve each of these to resemble two layers (and colors) of flame, but would like to start out with the shape already turned and ready for detailing. I have theorized that I could turn a fat teardrop, then change the axis slightly, turning a section closer to the tip, then change the axis again and move down. This sounds good in theory, but again I (and those turners with whom I have discussed it) have no experience in multi-axis turning. Anyone with advise is encouraged to give me their two cents worth.
                       
                      In Magical Service,
                      Malaki
                       
                       
                       
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ralph Lindberg
                      Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 6:05 PM
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Turning Finials

                      --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, "Tracy Swanson"
                      <tstar2000@. ..> wrote:
                      >
                      > Pray, are there any turners out there who have done any offset work? My
                      > Barony of Wiesenfeuer (meaning "Prairie Fire" in German) has
                      requested a set
                      > of flame-shaped finials for the tops of their poles on the Baronial
                      > Pavilion. There will be approximately 30 of them, so I would really
                      like to
                      > avoid having to carve them all by hand (as suggested by one turning
                      > instructor).
                      >
                      I'm afraid I agree with the instructor. I probably would rough them
                      on the lathe, then finish with carving.
                      Actually I probably would just shape them on the lathe and leave it
                      at that...

                      Ralg
                      AnTir

                    • Chuck Phillips
                      Malaki; While I have not attempted any multi-axis turning, it is high on my list of things to play with. There is a good discussion of the principles involved
                      Message 10 of 14 , Mar 17, 2007

                        Malaki;

                         

                        While I have not attempted any multi-axis turning, it is high on my list of things to play with.  There is a good discussion of the principles involved in “Woodturning Methods” by Mike Darlow (ISBN 1-56523-125-2). 

                         

                        This is a non-trivial project you have embarked upon.  I wish you the best of luck with it.

                         

                        Charles Joiner

                        Caid

                         


                        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tracy Swanson
                        Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 9:30 PM
                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Turning Finials

                         

                        It is a technique for shaping them that I seek. I envision a tapering teardrop-shaped finial that basically spirals as it tapers. I will have to carve each of these to resemble two layers (and colors) of flame, but would like to start out with the shape already turned and ready for detailing. I have theorized that I could turn a fat teardrop, then change the axis slightly, turning a section closer to the tip, then change the axis again and move down. This sounds good in theory, but again I (and those turners with whom I have discussed it) have no experience in multi-axis turning. Anyone with advise is encouraged to give me their two cents worth.

                         

                        In Magical Service,

                        Malaki

                         

                         

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ralph Lindberg
                        Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 6:05 PM
                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Turning Finials

                        --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, "Tracy Swanson"
                        <tstar2000@. ..> wrote:
                        >
                        > Pray, are there any turners out there who have done any offset work? My
                        > Barony of Wiesenfeuer (meaning "Prairie Fire" in German) has
                        requested a set
                        > of flame-shaped finials for the tops of their poles on the Baronial
                        > Pavilion. There will be approximately 30 of them, so I would really
                        like to
                        > avoid having to carve them all by hand (as suggested by one turning
                        > instructor).
                        >
                        I'm afraid I agree with the instructor. I probably would rough them
                        on the lathe, then finish with carving.
                        Actually I probably would just shape them on the lathe and leave it
                        at that...

                        Ralg
                        AnTir

                      • Ralph Lindberg
                        ... Non-trivial, good word The current issue of the American Assoc of Woodturners has an article on the Rose Engine. This could be a help. Check your local
                        Message 11 of 14 , Mar 18, 2007
                          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Phillips" <chuck@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Malaki;
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > While I have not attempted any multi-axis turning, it is high on my list
                          > of things to play with. There is a good discussion of the principles
                          > involved in "Woodturning Methods" by Mike Darlow (ISBN 1-56523-125-2).
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > This is a non-trivial project you have embarked upon. I wish you the
                          > best of luck with it.
                          >
                          Non-trivial, good word

                          The current issue of the American Assoc of Woodturners has an
                          article on the Rose Engine. This could be a help. Check your local
                          bookstore for a copy.

                          Ralg
                          AnTir
                        • Tracy Swanson
                          Thanks for your response! According to the books I have read, isn t a rose engine used primarily for the engraving of Spirograph-type designs? Non-trivial,
                          Message 12 of 14 , Mar 18, 2007
                            Thanks for your response!
                             
                            According to the books I have read, isn't a rose engine used primarily for the engraving of Spirograph-type designs?
                             
                            Non-trivial, indeed. I do tend to take on projects that expand my pallet of abilities. What better forum than this to consolidate such talents? Thanks for the lead on the book - I will see if I can locate a copy.
                             
                            This project is presently on the back burner until I repair the broken back on one of the short, cross-legged thrones. Entourage have the nasty habit of leaning on the back of the throne as they converse with the Crown (or in this case, Baron) who is seated during court. Even though these two uprights are about 2" x 4" (poplar), a 300 lb. Knight provides a LOT of leverage. Investigation showed that this one chair had been repaired three times in a very localized area. Previous repairs have included scarf joints and dowels, the latest being a combination of the two. Due to the damage to the wood I am replacing 6.5" of both upright supports, eliminating previous repairs and joining the new to the old with large mortise and tennons (this gives me the opportunity to try out the new drill press!). As a preventative measure I am contemplating a sign for the back of the thrones, sporting a curse to those who would unintentionally abuse these wonderful chairs. Alas...  ; )
                             
                            In Magical Service,
                            Malaki
                             
                             
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ralph Lindberg
                            Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 8:45 AM
                            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Turning Finials

                            --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, "Chuck Phillips" <chuck@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > Malaki;
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > While I have not attempted any multi-axis turning, it is high on my list
                            > of things to play with. There is a good discussion of the principles
                            > involved in "Woodturning Methods" by Mike Darlow (ISBN 1-56523-125- 2).
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > This is a non-trivial project you have embarked upon. I wish you the
                            > best of luck with it.
                            >
                            Non-trivial, good word

                            The current issue of the American Assoc of Woodturners has an
                            article on the Rose Engine. This could be a help. Check your local
                            bookstore for a copy.

                            Ralg
                            AnTir

                          • Bill McNutt
                            When you do complete your flame-shaped finials, they ll also need a carrying case. That design sounds line a prime case of broken-off-flame-tip in the making.
                            Message 13 of 14 , Mar 19, 2007

                              When you do complete your flame-shaped finials, they’ll also need a carrying case.  That design sounds line a prime case of broken-off-flame-tip in the making.  I think something like an old six-pack case would be a good idea to protect those flames.

                               

                              Will

                               


                              From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Tracy Swanson
                              Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 10:36 AM
                              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Turning Finials

                               

                              Thanks for your response!

                               

                              According to the books I have read, isn't a rose engine used primarily for the engraving of Spirograph-type designs?

                               

                              Non-trivial, indeed. I do tend to take on projects that expand my pallet of abilities. What better forum than this to consolidate such talents? Thanks for the lead on the book - I will see if I can locate a copy.

                               

                              This project is presently on the back burner until I repair the broken back on one of the short, cross-legged thrones. Entourage have the nasty habit of leaning on the back of the throne as they converse with the Crown (or in this case, Baron) who is seated during court. Even though these two uprights are about 2" x 4" (poplar), a 300 lb. Knight provides a LOT of leverage. Investigation showed that this one chair had been repaired three times in a very localized area. Previous repairs have included scarf joints and dowels, the latest being a combination of the two. Due to the damage to the wood I am replacing 6.5" of both upright supports, eliminating previous repairs and joining the new to the old with large mortise and tennons (this gives me the opportunity to try out the new drill press!). As a preventative measure I am contemplating a sign for the back of the thrones, sporting a curse to those who would unintentionally abuse these wonderful chairs. Alas. ..  ; )

                               

                              In Magical Service,

                              Malaki

                               

                               

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: medievalsaw dust@yahoogroups .com ]On Behalf Of Ralph Lindberg
                              Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 8:45 AM
                              To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Turning Finials

                              --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, "Chuck Phillips" <chuck@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > Malaki;
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > While I have not attempted any multi-axis turning, it is high on my list
                              > of things to play with. There is a good discussion of the principles
                              > involved in "Woodturning Methods" by Mike Darlow (ISBN 1-56523-125- 2).
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > This is a non-trivial project you have embarked upon. I wish you the
                              > best of luck with it.
                              >
                              Non-trivial, good word

                              The current issue of the American Assoc of Woodturners has an
                              article on the Rose Engine. This could be a help. Check your local
                              bookstore for a copy.

                              Ralg
                              AnTir

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