Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [medievalsawdust] Shave horses

Expand Messages
  • Tim Bray
    ... I doubt it. Modern-looking workbenches appeared in the 16th century, and are clearly just an evolutionary step (vises) from the simpler tables with dogs
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 3, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      >To me, they seem
      >to be the precursor to our modern work benches.

      I doubt it. Modern-looking workbenches appeared in the 16th century, and
      are clearly just an evolutionary step (vises) from the simpler tables with
      dogs and holdfasts that are seen in the 15th c. illuminations and
      paintings. Those are in turn very similar to Roman benches - just a sturdy
      four-legged table with holes for dogs.

      "The Workbench Book" by Scott Landis (Taunton Press) has some examples of
      these.

      Shave horses seem like a more specialized tool and probably developed
      independently from workbenches.

      >Jessimond - who longs to have a shave horse & pole lathe of her own...

      Colin - who longs to have a big sturdy workbench of his own...


      Albion Works
      Furniture and Accessories
      For the Medievalist!
      www.albionworks.net
      www.albionworks.com
    • James Winkler
      Awwww... yer no fun!!! Maybe something in a nice poodle cut ??? Charlie 4.5 fingers (the pin s out now... two more weeks to make sure the tendon s
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 3, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        Awwww...  yer' no fun!!!  Maybe something in a nice 'poodle cut'??? 
         
        Charlie '4.5 fingers'  (the pin's out now...  two more weeks to make sure the tendon's connected... sigh...)


        > >Way back in March, we had a discussion on shave horses, and how far

                 Hey!  NOBODY'S shaving MY horse!

        Aodhfin

      • Alessandro dEste
        ... cut ??? ... make sure the tendon s connected... sigh...) ... Its still to late for Crown tho Chas. I had so much looked forwards to seeing you become
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 5, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "James Winkler"
          <jrwinkler@m...> wrote:
          > Awwww... yer' no fun!!! Maybe something in a nice 'poodle
          cut'???
          >
          > Charlie '4.5 fingers' (the pin's out now... two more weeks to
          make sure the tendon's connected... sigh...)
          >

          Its still to late for Crown tho Chas. I had so much looked forwards
          to seeing you become King...
          IYS
          Alessandro
        • James Winkler
          Tee-hee. just keep that thought for another 2.5 to 3 years. I ll be gearing up around then. seems that I have this little gig coming up that will preclude me
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 6, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Tee-hee… just keep that thought for another 2.5 to 3 years…  I'll be gearing up around then… seems that I have this little gig coming up that will preclude me fighting Crown's for a while… might be a good thing, maybe I can work in my shop without fear of serious bodily injury for a while  (I was reminded a couple of days ago that 4 days before the previous crown I poured a ladle full of molten pewter over my right hand… luckily, it was covered with soapstone dust so the pewter just rolled off before I got any burns…  but I think that was a 'warning shot' that should have been heeded…  'Charles shouldn't fight Crown Tourneys!!!"…  but… what the heck… )
             
            Chas.
             
             
            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "James Winkler"
            <jrwinkler@m...> wrote:
            > Awwww...  yer' no fun!!!  Maybe something in a nice
            'poodle
            cut'??? 
            >
            > Charlie '4.5 fingers'  (the
            pin's out now...  two more weeks to
            make sure the tendon's connected... sigh...)
            >

            Its still to late for Crown tho Chas. I had so much looked forwards
            to seeing you become King...
            IYS
            Alessandro
          • Wolfram Troeder
            Hello, as I was looking through my books for something completly different I found a 1485 drawing with a shaving horse. I put it in the photos section. Tassilo
            Message 5 of 17 , Nov 25, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello,
              as I was looking through my books for something completly different
              I found a 1485 drawing with a shaving horse. I put it in the photos
              section.

              Tassilo

              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Tom Rettie <tom@h...> wrote:
              > >Way back in March, we had a discussion on shave horses, and how
              far
              > >back they can be documented. Are there any updates to the
              quest? I
              > >have found several books on the history of hand tools and such,
              and
              > >some mention shave horses, but not their evolution. To me, they
              seem
              > >to be the precursor to our modern work benches. Any input?
              >
              > The earliest documentary evidence for a shaving horse that I'm
              aware of is
              > Georgius Agricola's "De Re Metallica" ((1556), which clearly
              illustrates a
              > man shaving down "fuzz sticks" for use in a mine. This is
              the "continental"
              > version where the dumbhead comes up through the center of the
              bench. The
              > "English" style seems to come later.
              >
              > I would resist the jump that, because of their utility, they must
              have had
              > them at a much earlier date. There are a host of "traditional"
              brakes for
              > holding pieces that require little more than a few tree branches.
              The 15th
              > c. Bedford Book of Hours shows a gentleman edge-planing a panel
              that is
              > wedged into notches in some timbers to hold it steady. In the
              Saint Louis
              > Psalter (ca. 1200) Noah is shaping a timber that appears to be
              wedged in a
              > brake of some sort. A late 13th century mosaic shows two sawyers
              ripping a
              > board that one of the sawyers braces with his foot against a
              brake. There's
              > an excellent illustration in a 1531 woodcut of a carver's bench,
              which
              > looks very much like the frame for a pole lathe, but instead of
              turning the
              > piece (a statue) it appears to rotate freely so the carver can
              work from
              > any angle.
              >
              > If anyone finds an earlier shaving horse, I'd love to hear about
              it.
              >
              > Hope that helps.
              >
              > Tom R.
              >
              > ------------------------------------------------
              > Tom Rettie tom@h...
              > http://www.his.com/~tom/index.html
            • Joseph Hayes
              ... What book is that from? Ulrich __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/
              Message 6 of 17 , Nov 25, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                --- Wolfram Troeder <Rabennest@...> wrote:
                > as I was looking through my books for something completly different
                > I found a 1485 drawing with a shaving horse.

                What book is that from?

                Ulrich


                __________________________________
                Do you Yahoo!?
                Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
                http://companion.yahoo.com/
              • kjworz@comcast.net
                What is that object by the left butt-cheek of that white-cooper? Is that a tool?
                Message 7 of 17 , Nov 25, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  What is that object by the left butt-cheek of that white-cooper? Is that a tool?
                  >
                  > --- Wolfram Troeder <Rabennest@...> wrote:
                  > > as I was looking through my books for something completly different
                  > > I found a 1485 drawing with a shaving horse.
                  >
                  > What book is that from?
                  >
                  > Ulrich
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________
                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
                  > http://companion.yahoo.com/
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > medievalsawdust-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • Lord Alessandro dEste
                  ... that a tool? I took the pic and blew it up. To me and I could be wrong. It looks to be some type of clamping device . On line with a sewing pony. Bear
                  Message 8 of 17 , Nov 25, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, kjworz@c... wrote:
                    > What is that object by the left butt-cheek of that white-cooper? Is
                    that a tool?


                    I took the pic and blew it up. To me and I could be wrong. It looks to
                    be some type of clamping device . On line with a sewing pony.
                    Bear
                  • C N Schwartz
                    Darn. I thought it might be a froe. It looks like mine. I have brought THAT froe to Pennsic. It worked great on that crappy firewood. ... From: Lord
                    Message 9 of 17 , Nov 25, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Darn. I thought it might be a froe. It looks like mine.

                      I have brought THAT froe to Pennsic. It worked great on that crappy
                      firewood.


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Lord Alessandro dEste [mailto:avalonbear@...]


                      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, kjworz@c... wrote:
                      > What is that object by the left butt-cheek of that white-cooper? Is
                      that a tool?


                      I took the pic and blew it up. To me and I could be wrong. It looks to
                      be some type of clamping device . On line with a sewing pony.
                      Bear
                    • Wolfram Troeder
                      From the Mendelsche Hausbuch , Nürnberg, 1485 Tassilo ... -- NEU FÜR ALLE - GMX MediaCenter - für Fotos, Musik, Dateien... Fotoalbum, File Sharing, MMS,
                      Message 10 of 17 , Nov 25, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        From the "Mendelsche Hausbuch", Nürnberg, 1485

                        Tassilo
                        >
                        > --- Wolfram Troeder <Rabennest@...> wrote:
                        > > as I was looking through my books for something completly different
                        > > I found a 1485 drawing with a shaving horse.
                        >
                        > What book is that from?
                        >
                        > Ulrich
                        >
                        >
                        > __________________________________
                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                        > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
                        > http://companion.yahoo.com/
                        >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > medievalsawdust-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >

                        --
                        NEU FÜR ALLE - GMX MediaCenter - für Fotos, Musik, Dateien...
                        Fotoalbum, File Sharing, MMS, Multimedia-Gruß, GMX FotoService

                        Jetzt kostenlos anmelden unter http://www.gmx.net

                        +++ GMX - die erste Adresse für Mail, Message, More! +++
                      • Wolfram Troeder
                        It is a chop block? Hauklotz for wood chopping and a chopping knife? a Gertel or Hippe . It chops smaller than an axe. Tassilo ... -- GMX
                        Message 11 of 17 , Nov 26, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          It is a chop block? "Hauklotz" for wood chopping and a chopping knife? a
                          "Gertel" or "Hippe". It chops smaller than an axe.

                          Tassilo

                          > What is that object by the left butt-cheek of that white-cooper? Is that
                          > a tool?
                          > >
                          > > --- Wolfram Troeder <Rabennest@...> wrote:
                          > > > as I was looking through my books for something completly different
                          > > > I found a 1485 drawing with a shaving horse.
                          > >
                          > > What book is that from?
                          > >
                          > > Ulrich
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > __________________________________
                          > > Do you Yahoo!?
                          > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
                          > > http://companion.yahoo.com/
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > > medievalsawdust-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > medievalsawdust-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >

                          --
                          GMX Weihnachts-Special: Seychellen-Traumreise zu gewinnen!

                          Rentier entlaufen. Finden Sie Rudolph! Als Belohnung winken
                          tolle Preise. http://www.gmx.net/de/cgi/specialmail/

                          +++ GMX - die erste Adresse f�r Mail, Message, More! +++
                        • Lord Alessandro dEste
                          ... I can see that as what it could be but why two blades? Sandro
                          Message 12 of 17 , Nov 26, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfram Troeder"
                            <Rabennest@g...> wrote:
                            > It is a chop block? "Hauklotz" for wood chopping and a chopping knife? a
                            > "Gertel" or "Hippe". It chops smaller than an axe.
                            >
                            > Tassilo

                            I can see that as what it could be but why two blades?
                            Sandro
                          • Wolfram Troeder
                            Hi, thats not two blades but two upper edges of one blade. The artist just did not draw the line on the edge between the two edges. Is that clear? On second
                            Message 13 of 17 , Nov 26, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi,
                              thats not two blades but two upper edges of one blade. The artist just did
                              not draw the line on the edge between the two edges. Is that clear? On second
                              reading not even for me.
                              Ok, I saw the whole pic. It is a Gertel and it has only one blade. It is
                              made for chopping/splitting so the upper part of the blade (the back?) is broad.
                              In cut it is like a V. The artist tried to paint that, but forgot one line.
                              If you look beyond the stain, the line of the "second blade" merges with the
                              "first blade", so it is actually just one blade. Better?

                              Tassilo
                              > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfram Troeder"
                              > <Rabennest@g...> wrote:
                              > > It is a chop block? "Hauklotz" for wood chopping and a chopping knife? a
                              > > "Gertel" or "Hippe". It chops smaller than an axe.
                              > >
                              > > Tassilo
                              >
                              > I can see that as what it could be but why two blades?
                              > Sandro
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > medievalsawdust-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              >
                              >

                              --
                              NEU F�R ALLE - GMX MediaCenter - f�r Fotos, Musik, Dateien...
                              Fotoalbum, File Sharing, MMS, Multimedia-Gru�, GMX FotoService

                              Jetzt kostenlos anmelden unter http://www.gmx.net

                              +++ GMX - die erste Adresse f�r Mail, Message, More! +++
                            • Tom Rettie
                              ... photos ... Good catch. That prompted me to go take a closer look at Das Hausbuch der Mendelschen Zwölfbrüderstiftung in Nürnberg, and I noticed another
                              Message 14 of 17 , Nov 27, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfram Troeder"
                                <Rabennest@g...> wrote:
                                > I found a 1485 drawing with a shaving horse. I put it in the
                                photos
                                > section.

                                Good catch. That prompted me to go take a closer look at Das
                                Hausbuch der Mendelschen Zwölfbrüderstiftung in Nürnberg,
                                and I noticed another cooper with just the hint of what might be a
                                shaving horse in the background (1515):

                                http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~kochr3/mendel/094.jpg

                                There's also an interesting brake used by an armourer(?), a
                                similar tool that uses dogs instead of a foot vice:

                                http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~kochr3/mendel/060.jpg

                                Tom R.
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.