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Re: [medievalsawdust] Looking for documentation

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  • ghalstead@adelphia.net
    The X chair (as opposed to the stool) first shows up in Italy in the late 14th C (IIRC, I m at work and the books are at home) and migrates into northern
    Message 1 of 29 , Jul 3 7:49 AM
      The X chair (as opposed to the stool) first shows up in Italy in the late 14th C (IIRC, I'm at work and the books are at home) and migrates into northern Europe over the course of the 15th and 16th centuries. There were two major styles, the "Dantesca" which has a leather/cloth back and seat (rather like the modern "director's chair") and the "Savonarola" which has a slatted wooden seat and removable wooden back. Both names are modern lables, BTW. Some pictures of 15th-16th C Italian examples can be seen online at: http://www.medievalwoodworking.com/schottmuller2.htm The pictures are supposed to be a link to a larger version, but that doesn't seem to be working for some reason. Existing examples are fairly common and can be found in most books on medieval/Renaissance furniture.

      12th and 13th C chairs are few and far between. I know there are some examples out there, but I can't think of any off of the top of my head.

      Ranulf
      >
      > From: "Stefan von Kiel" <stefan@...>
      > Date: 2003/07/03 Thu AM 10:05:45 EDT
      > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [medievalsawdust] Looking for documentation
      >
      > Hello everyone,
      >
      > I'm trying to find documentation for some chairs.
      >
      > The first one is the X style chair. I've made a few and seen others with
      > them, but don't know if they are period. I think I've seen references to
      > similar chairs, but can't find them.
      >
      > The other is any chair that can be documented to the 12th or 13th centuries.
      >
      > Thanks for your help.
      >
      > Stefan
      > Dwarven Axe Armoury
      > www.dwarvenaxe.com
      >
      > _________________________________________________________________
    • Tom Rettie
      ... Turned chairs go back to at least the 12th century in northern Europe. There s a beautiful desk, bench, and chair in a church in Gotland c. 1200, and they
      Message 2 of 29 , Jul 3 9:05 AM
        >The other is any chair that can be documented to the 12th or 13th centuries.

        Turned chairs go back to at least the 12th century in northern Europe.
        There's a beautiful desk, bench, and chair in a church in Gotland c. 1200,
        and they show up in medieval art throughout the Middle Ages. I'm fond of
        turned furniture because with relatively few turning skills, you can make
        chairs as simple or elaborate as you wish.

        Here's one I made a while back:

        http://www.his.com/~tom/sca/turnedchair.html

        And one I just finished up but haven't posted new pictures for yet:

        http://www.his.com/~tom/sca/projects/current.html

        Hope that helps.

        Tom R.

        ------------------------------------------------
        Tom Rettie tom@...
        http://www.his.com/~tom/index.html
      • James Winkler
        Actually x chairs (or stools to be more precise) date WAY BACK ... without a back... The Greeks had multi-legged folding stools with interlocking seat...
        Message 3 of 29 , Jul 3 10:27 AM
          Actually 'x' chairs (or stools to be more precise) date 'WAY BACK'...  without a back...   The Greeks had multi-legged folding stools with interlocking seat...  an example shows up on a vase dated to the 6th c. B.C.  (... or BCE for the politically correct).    Prior to this example, there appear to be predominantly x-stools with leather sling seats.  Now... one interesting point is that during this time period and for several centuries there after, people sat their stools in a manner 90 deg. off of what we would consider 'normal' today.
           
          Interestingly, it 'appears' that backs on these stools kinda' started appearing roughly around the time that folks started sitting on stools the way we sit on them today...  I can't prove it 'beyond a shadow of a doubt'... but...
           
          My info on the history of 'x' chairs and stools is:
           
          SELLA CURULIS: The Folding Stool, an ancient symbol of dignity
          by Ole Wanscher, Rosenkilde and Bagger, Copenhagen, 1980\
          ISBN - 87 423 0337 0
           
          Your most obdn't servant -
          Chas.
        • Tim Bray
          ... Gosh, which kind? I can think of at least 5 different styles of X-frame chair: 1. The simple foldstool (pre-Roman through 14th c. at least) Fancy 14th c
          Message 4 of 29 , Jul 3 12:36 PM
            >The first one is the X style chair.

            Gosh, which kind? I can think of at least 5 different styles of X-frame chair:

            1. The simple foldstool (pre-Roman through 14th c. at least)
            Fancy 14th c version:
            http://www.bnf.fr/enluminures/images/jpeg/i1_0042.jpg
            Andy Goddard made a nice one:
            http://www.bumply.com/Medieval/Fauldstool/index.htm

            2. Foldstool with the back legs extended upwards and a cloth back: the
            X-throne (14th - 16th c.)
            15th c. version:
            http://www.bnf.fr/enluminures/images/jpeg/i5_0088.jpg
            There are several examples in "Italian Renaissance Interiors" by Peter
            Thornton.

            3. Scissors-chair ("Scherenstuhl") with multiple legs, sometimes with
            arms, sometimes with back. Several variants on this model; the
            "Savonarola" chairs could be considered part of this category. 15th - 16th c.
            Charles Oakley has a couple of examples on his site, but the server is off
            at the moment. There are a bunch of 15th c. illuminations of these, and
            even a few surviving examples.
            Target is selling a very accurate-looking reproduction:
            http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=2-1/qid=1052072142/ref=sr_2_1/602-60
            03430-9044606?asin=B000083GKI

            4. "Glastonbury" type, essentially a sideways foldstool with added back
            and arms. (11th c, then 15th - 16th c.)
            http://www.albionworks.net/ChairsPage/FoldingChairs.htm

            5. "Dagobert" throne: a hybrid style with four legs and X-bracing front
            and back. (One example known, probably Carolingian, with 12th c. arms and
            back)
            http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/firsteuro/imgs/image6.html

            >The other is any chair that can be documented to the 12th or 13th centuries.

            Lots! Much of the furniture in that period was constructed of turned
            pieces. Large, heavy-looking turned legs are characteristic. I have some
            photos if you're really interested in that style. Earlier art shows
            armchairs that look very much like modern dining-chairs.

            Also there are Scandinavian chairs from the 12th c, some of which are made
            with squared timber (e.g. the Tyldal chair).

            Cheers,
            Colin


            Albion Works
            Furniture and Accessories
            For the Medievalist!
            www.albionworks.net
            www.albionworks.com
          • Tim Bray
            Since it s less than a month away now, I thought I d see who is going to be at Pennsic this year. Looks like I will make it this time (flying not driving)! I
            Message 5 of 29 , Jul 12 6:05 PM
              Since it's less than a month away now, I thought I'd see who is going to be
              at Pennsic this year. Looks like I will make it this time (flying not
              driving)! I won't have a booth myself, but will be hanging out mostly at
              Renaissance Arts (the T-shirt folks). Come by and say hello!

              Colin


              Albion Works
              Furniture and Accessories
              For the Medievalist!
              www.albionworks.net
              www.albionworks.com
            • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
              I ll be there! ... ===== Baron Conal O hAirt / Jim Hart Seneschal, Barony of Fenix Aude Aliquid Dignum Dare Something Worthy
              Message 6 of 29 , Jul 13 4:02 AM
                I'll be there!


                --- Tim Bray <tbray@...> wrote:
                > Since it's less than a month away now, I thought I'd
                > see who is going to be
                > at Pennsic this year. Looks like I will make it
                > this time (flying not
                > driving)! I won't have a booth myself, but will be
                > hanging out mostly at
                > Renaissance Arts (the T-shirt folks). Come by and
                > say hello!
                >
                > Colin
                >
                >
                > Albion Works
                > Furniture and Accessories
                > For the Medievalist!
                > www.albionworks.net
                > www.albionworks.com
                >
                >


                =====
                Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
                Seneschal, Barony of Fenix

                Aude Aliquid Dignum
                ' Dare Something Worthy '

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              • Rob Hicks
                I ll be there, so I should introduce myself. I am Dunstan Bramblette (Rob Hicks) and am currently working at Hal Raeburn s shop and have been rather solid this
                Message 7 of 29 , Jul 13 7:21 AM
                  I'll be there, so I should introduce myself.
                  I am Dunstan Bramblette (Rob Hicks) and am currently
                  working at Hal Raeburn's shop and have been rather
                  solid this year, but on and off for the last 3 years.

                  Me and my lady will be camping with House Raeburn,
                  from time to time I should be seen in the Jactance
                  booth.

                  -Dunstan

                  --- Tim Bray <tbray@...> wrote:
                  > Since it's less than a month away now, I thought I'd
                  > see who is going to be
                  > at Pennsic this year. Looks like I will make it
                  > this time (flying not
                  > driving)! I won't have a booth myself, but will be
                  > hanging out mostly at
                  > Renaissance Arts (the T-shirt folks). Come by and
                  > say hello!
                  >
                  > Colin
                  >
                  >
                  > Albion Works
                  > Furniture and Accessories
                  > For the Medievalist!
                  > www.albionworks.net
                  > www.albionworks.com
                  >
                  >


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                • GrimaldR@aol.com
                  As will I. I ll be camped with Silver Channel
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jul 13 8:00 AM
                    As will I. I'll be camped with Silver Channel
                  • Alessandro dEste
                    ... going to be ... not ... mostly at ... My lady and I will not be able to make Pennsic this year,Tho we had made plans to do so. (It would have been our
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jul 13 7:19 PM
                      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Tim Bray <tbray@m...> wrote:
                      > Since it's less than a month away now, I thought I'd see who is
                      going to be
                      > at Pennsic this year. Looks like I will make it this time (flying
                      not
                      > driving)! I won't have a booth myself, but will be hanging out
                      mostly at
                      > Renaissance Arts (the T-shirt folks). Come by and say hello!
                      >
                      > Colin
                      >

                      My lady and I will not be able to make Pennsic this year,Tho we had
                      made plans to do so. (It would have been our first)
                      The cost is what is keeping us from attending.
                      Most of our gear we have had to replace do to the flooding this year.
                      Even our gear trailer was effected by the high waters here in north
                      central Indiana.I wanted new camp box's and furniture but did not
                      plan on having to make all new so soon. Thank heavens our new pather
                      marquie was up in the house and not out in the trailer.
                      Next year we will be there "Hell or High Water"lol
                      IYS.
                      Alessandro dEste
                    • Brian D. Murphy
                      I ll be there...camping in the Midlands encampment. Bran Bran Du ap Dafydd Since it s less than a month away now, I thought I d see who is going to be at
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jul 13 8:15 PM
                        I'll be there...camping in the Midlands encampment.
                         
                        Bran
                         
                        Bran Du ap Dafydd
                         
                         

                        Since it's less than a month away now, I thought I'd see who is going to be
                        at Pennsic this year.  Looks like I will make it this time (flying not
                        driving)!  I won't have a booth myself, but will be hanging out mostly at
                        Renaissance Arts (the T-shirt folks).  Come by and say hello!

                        Colin
                      • Stefan von Kiel
                        I ll be there too. Also without a booth but I will have items for sale in a friend s booth, Northstar Armoury. I m only going for a few days around the
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jul 14 9:37 AM
                          I'll be there too. Also without a booth but I will have items for sale in a
                          friend's booth, Northstar Armoury. I'm only going for a few days around the
                          middle weekend.



                          Stefan von Kiel
                          Dwarven Axe Armoury
                          www.dwarvenaxe.com





                          ----Original Message Follows----
                          From: Tim Bray <tbray@...>
                          Reply-To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [medievalsawdust] Pennsic?
                          Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:05:06 -0700

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                        • Hal and Julia
                          Hi there folks, I will be there as normal in booth #164 Jactance stop by we can talk more wood. I would also like to know if people are interested in having
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jul 14 7:02 PM
                            Hi there folks,
                             
                            I will be there as normal in booth #164 Jactance stop by we can talk more wood. I would also like to know if people are interested in having critique times, you no, bring pictures or pieces to chat about. Let me know if folks are up for it.
                             
                            In service
                            Hal Raeburn
                             
                          • Joseph Hayes
                            I know there s a few professionals on the list, so I was hoping to get some advice. How does one go about pricing their work? I m not looking to make a
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jul 15 7:03 AM
                              I know there's a few professionals on the list, so I was hoping to get
                              some advice. How does one go about pricing their work? I'm not
                              looking to make a living from furniture sales (cause then it would be
                              work and wouldn't be fun) but I'd like to offset the cost of the SCA.

                              So far, I've only made one piece that I planned to sell, but between
                              not knowing what to charge and my wife complaining the house has none
                              of my stuff (the cobbler's son has no shoes?), I never sold it.

                              Here's the piece:
                              http://www.midrealm.org/ballaeban/ulrich/ans/chest.jpg

                              I don't remember how long it took to build. It's all wood construction
                              (pegged), with linenfold front and boarded sides and back. The hinges
                              are hand-made. The material is red oak. Any suggestions on how to
                              price something like this?

                              Thanks,
                              Ulrich


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                            • Cockerel Woodworks
                              Nice. I would probably ask around $500 USD. Ulfgar Cockerel Woodworks Medieval and Renaissance fine furniture. View our gallery!
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jul 15 7:00 PM

                                Nice. I would probably ask around $500 USD.

                                Ulfgar

                                 

                                Cockerel Woodworks

                                Medieval and Renaissance fine furniture.

                                View our gallery!

                                http://merchants-medieval.com/cockerel

                                 

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Joseph Hayes [mailto:von_landstuhl@...]
                                Sent: Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:04 AM
                                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [medievalsawdust] Pricing your work ?

                                 


                                I know there's a few professionals on the list, so I was hoping to get
                                some advice.  How does one go about pricing their work?  I'm not
                                looking to make a living from furniture sales (cause then it would be
                                work and wouldn't be fun) but I'd like to offset the cost of the SCA. 

                                So far, I've only made one piece that I planned to sell, but between
                                not knowing what to charge and my wife complaining the house has none
                                of my stuff (the cobbler's son has no shoes?), I never sold it.

                                Here's the piece:
                                http://www.midrealm.org/ballaeban/ulrich/ans/chest.jpg

                                I don't remember how long it took to build.  It's all wood construction
                                (pegged), with linenfold front and boarded sides and back.  The hinges
                                are hand-made.  The material is red oak.  Any suggestions on how to
                                price something like this?

                                Thanks,
                                Ulrich


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                              • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                                My guess $1000-1200. Go to New York City and look at the prices. James Cunningham
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jul 15 7:41 PM
                                  My guess $1000-1200. Go to New York City and look at the prices.

                                  James Cunningham
                                • Tim Bray
                                  Pricing is really, really difficult. For me anyway, and judging by what I read and the number of times this question comes up, I m not the only one. Since
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jul 15 9:28 PM
                                    Pricing is really, really difficult. For me anyway, and judging by what I
                                    read and the number of times this question comes up, I'm not the only
                                    one. Since you are not trying to make a living at it (for a very good and
                                    well-stated reason), the usual advice about figuring an hourly rate does
                                    not apply.

                                    When you get right down to it, an object is worth what someone will pay for
                                    it. It's very difficult to figure that out in advance, until you get a lot
                                    of experience, which will bring a general sense of what people will pay.

                                    A big part of it is marketing. Two identical pieces of furniture might
                                    sell for dramatically different prices, depending on how they are
                                    marketed. The SCA market is notoriously cheap, although there is a very
                                    small percentage that recognize quality and will pay for it. So you need a
                                    lot of exposure, in order to get noticed by those people.

                                    Figure out what you think it's worth, add 25% to 50%, and ask for that. If
                                    you can't sell it for that, lower the price or do more marketing. Keep
                                    marketing and adjusting the price until it sells. Then you know exactly
                                    how to price the next one! :-D

                                    It's generally easier to lower your price than to raise it. OTOH,
                                    sometimes *raising* your prices will generate *more* interest in your
                                    work... bizarre, but sometimes true.

                                    Now, about your chest... that looks really good! Kind of a hybrid of
                                    styles, but nicely done. I probably wouldn't make something like that for
                                    less than $500, maybe more depending on those hinges... did you make them
                                    yourself, or buy them?

                                    Good luck,
                                    Colin


                                    Albion Works
                                    Furniture and Accessories
                                    For the Medievalist!
                                    www.albionworks.net
                                    www.albionworks.com
                                  • Tim Bray
                                    ... Good idea Hal, I will try to bring some photos and look you up. Wish I could bring some pieces, but logistics are against me. Unless I can persuade Bob
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jul 15 9:32 PM
                                      I will be there as normal in booth #164 Jactance stop by we can talk more wood. I would also like to know if people are interested in having critique times, you no, bring pictures or pieces to chat about. Let me know if folks are up for it.


                                      Good idea Hal, I will try to bring some photos and look you up.  Wish I could bring some pieces, but logistics are against me.  Unless I can persuade Bob to bring that chest out from Maryland with him...

                                      See you there!

                                      Colin


                                      Albion Works
                                      Furniture and Accessories
                                      For the Medievalist!
                                    • Joseph Hayes
                                      ... What s a good starting point for hourly rate? Minimum wage? I have no idea what a modern entry-level cabinetmaker earns. Do people mark up the cost of
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jul 16 8:48 AM
                                        > Since you are not trying to make a living at it (for a very
                                        > good and well-stated reason), the usual advice about figuring an
                                        > hourly rate does not apply.

                                        What's a good starting point for hourly rate? Minimum wage? I have no
                                        idea what a modern entry-level cabinetmaker earns. Do people mark up
                                        the cost of materials?

                                        > The SCA market is notoriously cheap

                                        That's for sure! There's too many crafty people. I wish I had a buck
                                        for every time I hear someone say, "I can make that."

                                        > Now, about your chest... that looks really good! Kind of a hybrid of
                                        > styles, but nicely done.

                                        Thanks. It's based on two examples. One in "Oak Furniture: The
                                        British Tradition" by Chinnery and the other is in the Cleveland Museum
                                        of Art. I chose it for the same reasons (I think) as the original
                                        builders: It's all boards, no large dimension stiles are needed.

                                        > I probably wouldn't make something like that for less than $500,

                                        Wow, my initial thought $300.

                                        > maybe more depending on those hinges... did you make them
                                        > yourself, or buy them?

                                        I bought them from a shire member who smiths. I think he charged me
                                        $20. I need to finish the forge I'm building. There's a lot of
                                        furniture I want to build, but won't do it until I can do it with the
                                        right hardware.

                                        Ulrich


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                                      • Tim Bray
                                        ... Keep in mind that the gallery commission is often around 50%. If it was consigned to a gallery and they sold it for $1200, Ulrich would probably get about
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jul 16 8:52 AM
                                          >My guess $1000-1200. Go to New York City and look at the prices.

                                          Keep in mind that the gallery commission is often around 50%. If it was
                                          consigned to a gallery and they sold it for $1200, Ulrich would probably
                                          get about $600. That's the power of marketing! ;-)

                                          Cheers,
                                          Colin


                                          Albion Works
                                          Furniture and Accessories
                                          For the Medievalist!
                                          www.albionworks.net
                                          www.albionworks.com
                                        • Stefan von Kiel
                                          I have always undercharged for my work. I had to create a table that has all materials that I would have to purchase. If I purchase 8 board feet of hard
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jul 16 9:30 AM
                                            I have always undercharged for my work. I had to create a table that has
                                            all materials that I would have to purchase. If I purchase 8 board feet of
                                            hard maple to make a project that will use 6 bf when completed, I use 8 bf
                                            in my table since this is what I will have to purchase. I also include
                                            expendables like sandpaper, rags, etc. I then use an hourly rate of $20 per
                                            hour. I found that once I figure out the cost, it is still reasonably
                                            priced. My trestle legs have gone up in price since I now use a mortise &
                                            tenon joint to attach the cross support. This has added more time to the
                                            construction but the result is a better trestle. People seem to be happy
                                            paying a little more for the sturdier trestles.



                                            Stefan von Kiel
                                            Dwarven Axe Armoury
                                            www.dwarvenaxe.com

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                                          • Tim Bray
                                            ... Depends. Are you really trying to make a living at it? Do you have insurance coverage through a spouse or other job? How much training or experience do
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jul 16 9:54 PM
                                              >What's a good starting point for hourly rate? Minimum wage?

                                              Depends. Are you really trying to make a living at it? Do you have
                                              insurance coverage through a spouse or other job? How much training or
                                              experience do you have? etc...

                                              > I have no
                                              >idea what a modern entry-level cabinetmaker earns.

                                              Depends. Location, experience, market conditions... Right now an
                                              entry-level guy in a commercial shop probably won't be getting much more
                                              than grunt wages, probably less than $10/hour. An experienced guy in a top
                                              market area probably can't get much more than $30/hour. Cabinetmaking is a
                                              tough business right now.

                                              > Do people mark up
                                              >the cost of materials?

                                              No, I just build them into my price. What I do is design the piece, make a
                                              WAG of how long it will take me to complete, figure out how much I want to
                                              make, and add the materials costs plus incidentals. I'm almost always too
                                              low - I don't make much over $10/hour most of the time.

                                              The way I figure materials is to add up the board footage in the piece, add
                                              at least 30% for waste, and add an allowance for consumables (sandpaper,
                                              finish, etc.).

                                              Your price also has to pay back the cost of your tools, and pay for new
                                              blades, power consumption, and a host of other little things that add up.

                                              >That's for sure! There's too many crafty people. I wish I had a buck
                                              >for every time I hear someone say, "I can make that."

                                              What I need is a way to turn compliments into cash. A friend suggested I
                                              put out a large jar, and charge 25 cents every time someone says "Very nice
                                              work, m'lord." :-D

                                              Don't get me wrong, I love those compliments, but they are too rarely
                                              followed by sales!

                                              > > I probably wouldn't make something like that for less than $500,
                                              >
                                              >Wow, my initial thought $300.

                                              Two years ago that's probably what I would have said too. But that would
                                              be sub-minimum wage, at least for the amount of time I would put into
                                              it. If you work faster than me, you can charge less and still make
                                              more. I put a _lot_ of time into details and finishing - cutting chamfers,
                                              easing edges, sanding and scraping. And as I noted above, there are a lot
                                              of expenses that have to get paid out of that price.

                                              >I bought them from a shire member who smiths. I think he charged me
                                              >$20.

                                              Give me that guy's name, I want to order a dozen.

                                              >I need to finish the forge I'm building. There's a lot of
                                              >furniture I want to build, but won't do it until I can do it with the
                                              >right hardware.

                                              Hardware is a big problem for us medievalists. Forging it yourself is
                                              definitely a good way to go, but then you have to get paid for that work,
                                              too. My solution is to make pin-hinged clamped-front chests. ;-)

                                              Cheers,
                                              Colin




                                              Albion Works
                                              Furniture and Accessories
                                              For the Medievalist!
                                              www.albionworks.net
                                              www.albionworks.com
                                            • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                                              Unless there is a lot of carving I ve found that in the SCA you are lucky if you can get twice the cost of materials. I ve been considering trying to find a
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Jul 17 3:25 AM
                                                Unless there is a lot of carving
                                                I've found that in the SCA you are
                                                lucky if you can get twice the cost
                                                of materials.

                                                I've been considering trying to find
                                                a local store front to do consignment
                                                through, there I could get something
                                                more like the actual value of the piece.



                                                =====
                                                Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
                                                Seneschal, Barony of Fenix

                                                Aude Aliquid Dignum
                                                ' Dare Something Worthy '

                                                __________________________________
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                                              • Scott Lane
                                                ... I am in the process of finishing a whole bunch of hinges for chests (15+)... They are all spoken for but once I get them done I would be more than willing
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Jul 17 8:43 AM
                                                  > >I need to finish the forge I'm building. There's a lot of
                                                  > >furniture I want to build, but won't do it until I can do it with the
                                                  > >right hardware.
                                                  >Hardware is a big problem for us medievalists. Forging it yourself is
                                                  >definitely a good way to go, but then you have to get paid for that work,
                                                  >too. My solution is to make pin-hinged clamped-front chests. ;-)

                                                  I am in the process of finishing a whole bunch of hinges for
                                                  chests (15+)... They are all spoken for but once I get them done I would
                                                  be more than willing to make more, as well as other hardware. If anyone is
                                                  interested in traditional forged hardware send me an e-mail at:
                                                  scotty@...

                                                  In Service,
                                                  Aodhfin
                                                • Cockerel Woodworks
                                                  I sell to many different re-enactment groups, and I agree that the SCA is pretty much the worst of them all when it comes to handing over the cash. How do I
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Jul 17 3:54 PM

                                                    I sell to many different re-enactment groups, and I agree that the SCA is pretty much the worst of them all when it comes to handing over the cash. How do I get around this problem? Simple, my prices do not move! They can either pay for the article at full value or not at all. I will not de-value my work, and yes, that is exactly what you do every time you lower your prices. As for the famous bleat of “ I could make that” my answer is always “yes, but have you?” It is amazing how many of these closet artists never produce a thing………….

                                                    Julian (Incidentally, known as master Ulfgar OL in the SCA, lest I am seen to be bashing it)

                                                     

                                                    Cockerel Woodworks

                                                    Medieval and Renaissance fine furniture.

                                                    View our gallery!

                                                    http://merchants-medieval.com/cockerel

                                                     

                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart [mailto:baronconal@...]
                                                    Sent: Thursday, 17 July 2003 8:26 PM
                                                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [medievalsawdust] Pricing your work ?

                                                     

                                                    Unless there is a lot of carving
                                                    I've found that in the SCA you are
                                                    lucky if you can get twice the cost
                                                    of materials.

                                                    I've been considering trying to find
                                                    a local store front to do consignment
                                                    through, there I could get something
                                                    more like the actual value of the piece.



                                                    =====
                                                    Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
                                                    Seneschal, Barony of Fenix

                                                       Aude Aliquid Dignum
                                                         ' Dare Something Worthy '

                                                    __________________________________
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                                                  • Tim Bray
                                                    ... Minus the store s commission, of course. Which can be substantial; galleries take as much as 50% of the sales price. So you still aren t getting the
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Jul 17 9:03 PM
                                                      >I've been considering trying to find
                                                      >a local store front to do consignment
                                                      >through, there I could get something
                                                      >more like the actual value of the piece.

                                                      Minus the store's commission, of course. Which can be substantial;
                                                      galleries take as much as 50% of the sales price. So you still aren't
                                                      getting the "actual value" if that is the same as the sales price. But a
                                                      good gallery _adds value_ to your work, by effectively marketing and
                                                      presenting it. And if you count the time and cost of going to events to
                                                      sell stuff, on balance you are going to be way ahead letting someone else
                                                      do that for a 50% commission. Then you can go to events just to have a
                                                      good time, instead of being tied to the booth.

                                                      Cheers,
                                                      Colin



                                                      Albion Works
                                                      Furniture and Accessories
                                                      For the Medievalist!
                                                      www.albionworks.net
                                                      www.albionworks.com
                                                    • Hal and Julia
                                                      Hi there folks, I have been selling my reproductions and adaptations for over ten years now. I first stated selling them in the SCA as a way of off setting my
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Jul 18 2:43 PM
                                                        Hi there folks, I have been selling my reproductions and adaptations for over ten years now. I first stated selling them in the SCA as a way of off setting my cost to do effects. My prices were low and I got so many comitions that I could not keep up with orders. In the end I raised my prices to reflect the cost of my art and to slow down the number of orders I received. I now sell to allsorts of people, with reproductions range from Roman to Modern. In the end pricing becomes is a balance of several things your time, your materials, and your art witch can be very emotional.
                                                         
                                                        In service
                                                        Hal Raeburn, OL
                                                         
                                                      • Cockerel Woodworks
                                                        Cool, do you have a website? J Cockerel Woodworks Medieval and Renaissance fine furniture. View our gallery! http://merchants-medieval.com/cockerel ... From:
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Jul 18 5:49 PM

                                                          Cool, do you have a website?

                                                          J

                                                           

                                                          Cockerel Woodworks

                                                          Medieval and Renaissance fine furniture.

                                                          View our gallery!

                                                          http://merchants-medieval.com/cockerel

                                                           

                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                          From: Hal and Julia [mailto:raeburn@...]
                                                          Sent: Saturday, 19 July 2003 7:44 AM
                                                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Subject: Re: [medievalsawdust] Pricing your work ?

                                                           

                                                          Hi there folks, I have been selling my reproductions and adaptations for over ten years now. I first stated selling them in the SCA as a way of off setting my cost to do effects. My prices were low and I got so many comitions that I could not keep up with orders. In the end I raised my prices to reflect the cost of my art and to slow down the number of orders I received. I now sell to allsorts of people, with reproductions range from Roman to Modern. In the end pricing becomes is a balance of several things your time, your materials, and your art witch can be very emotional.

                                                           

                                                          In service

                                                          Hal Raeburn, OL

                                                           



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                                                        • Hal and Julia
                                                          No, I have not had the time yet to complete one. Hal ... From: Cockerel Woodworks To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 7:49 PM
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Jul 19 6:43 AM
                                                            No, I have not had the time yet to complete one.
                                                             
                                                            Hal
                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                            Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 7:49 PM
                                                            Subject: RE: [medievalsawdust] Pricing your work ?

                                                            Cool, do you have a website?

                                                            J

                                                             

                                                            Cockerel Woodworks

                                                            Medieval and Renaissance fine furniture.

                                                            View our gallery!

                                                            http://merchants-medieval.com/cockerel

                                                             

                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                            From: Hal and Julia [mailto:raeburn@...]
                                                            Sent: Saturday, 19 July 2003 7:44 AM
                                                            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Subject: Re: [medievalsawdust] Pricing your work ?

                                                             

                                                            Hi there folks, I have been selling my reproductions and adaptations for over ten years now. I first stated selling them in the SCA as a way of off setting my cost to do effects. My prices were low and I got so many comitions that I could not keep up with orders. In the end I raised my prices to reflect the cost of my art and to slow down the number of orders I received. I now sell to allsorts of people, with reproductions range from Roman to Modern. In the end pricing becomes is a balance of several things your time, your materials, and your art witch can be very emotional.

                                                             

                                                            In service

                                                            Hal Raeburn, OL

                                                             



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