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Re: [medievalsawdust] " Don't eat that Elmer!"

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  • James W. Pratt, Jr.
    OOPS you are correct!! I have been a farm blacksmith for too long where the forge, anvil, and tree are all within two steps and upwind is always on one side
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 28, 2003
      OOPS you are correct!! I have been a farm blacksmith for too long where the
      forge, anvil, and tree are all within two steps and upwind is always on one
      side of the forge.

      James Cunningham

      > Better to give it a good grinding first to get the plating off the exposed
      > bits before heating to give it a 'patina'. If you REALLY have to burn
      > something, do it way, way outside on a day with a stiff breeze & keep an
      > eye out for the EPA.
      >
      > regards
      > Brusi
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Joseph Hayes
      ... Stools are way older than that. When they become fossilized, they re called coprolites. Ulrich ...sorry I have ADHD and couldn t help myself...
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 30, 2003
        > Also, I'm interested in figuring out when these things first
        > appeared. The earliest one that I know of is from a Van Eyck of the
        > 1430s. Anybody have any earlier sources?

        Stools are way older than that. When they become fossilized, they're
        called "coprolites."

        Ulrich
        ...sorry I have ADHD and couldn't help myself...


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      • guydemontange
        ... the ... they re ... Now where did I leave that sturgeon? ;)
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 1, 2003
          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Hayes <von_landstuhl@y.
          ..> wrote:
          >
          > > Also, I'm interested in figuring out when these things first
          > > appeared. The earliest one that I know of is from a Van Eyck of
          the
          > > 1430s. Anybody have any earlier sources?
          >
          > Stools are way older than that. When they become fossilized,
          they're
          > called "coprolites."
          >
          > Ulrich
          > ...sorry I have ADHD and couldn't help myself...

          Now where did I leave that sturgeon? ;)
        • rmhowe
          ... You know I hadn t either. That s a good point. Most wood (and plywood) expands/contracts about 1 1/2% along the grain but as much as 6-8% across the grain
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 6, 2003
            Schuster, Robert L. wrote:
            > And make the holes for the rivets oversized, so there
            > is room for movement. Otherwise it's likely to warp when the humidity
            > changes.

            > --nice piece of advise there Colin
            > i hadn't considered this.
            >
            > Halvgrimr

            You know I hadn't either. That's a good point.

            Most wood (and plywood) expands/contracts about 1 1/2% along
            the grain but as much as 6-8% across the grain depending
            on species and humidity.

            When I look at rivets for bosses or ship's roves (rivets) I am
            frequently amazed by the huge heads on these things - meaning
            how flat and wide they are. It seems to be (by some experience)
            that normal mild steel won't spread that far - I'm fairly sure
            it won't without splitting or by heating and hammering a lot.

            In normal riveting which we do in armor making the mild steel
            rivets we normally use should be clipped off at 1 1/2 times
            the shank diameter of the rivet past the point where it emerges
            through the materials. This wouldn't make the large, flat, wide
            heads I normally associate with the shield rivets I've seen in
            most archaeological depictions, and I don't see regular rust
            spreading out that far beyond the edges. The size of their
            rivet shanks was probably much larger than ours.

            What they had was wrought iron, or iron that has had about 7
            percent silaceous slag hammered back into it to make it workable
            after smelting. I've never tried to rivet with this stuff with
            a narrow crosspeen hammer but it must work much differently
            before work hardening.

            Maybe an air hammer might produce fast enough blows to cause
            enough friction from metal movement producing heat and
            preventing work hardening enough to spread the rivet head out
            to look like the real stuff, but somehow I doubt it. I'm
            certain that hand hammering won't. Or did they put it in
            red hot?

            Magnus
          • rmhowe
            ... Yeah but we re all been eating out of aluminum pots and pans all our lives, and consuming candy wrapped in aluminum foil as well. I don t think you can
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 1, 2003
              Bruce S. R. Lee wrote:
              > Be very careful with 'burning' any coating off metal parts - be they bolts,
              > nuts or pipe. These days you have to be a metallurgist to tell exactly
              > what's in the metal coating - some hardware has cadmium plating, and even
              > zinc (real gal) is not too good for you in the long run, and for
              > 'zincalume' plating there is the theory about aluminum & Alzheimers....;-(

              Yeah but we're all been eating out of aluminum pots and pans
              all our lives, and consuming candy wrapped in aluminum foil
              as well. I don't think you can avoid aluminum much in the
              modern world. There are lots of soft drinks with citric
              acid in them in aluminum cans, and for many there is BEER...

              MajicBadger used to smelt brass in his open forge to cast it.
              What happened to him was BrassFounders Ague. Massive headaches,
              various other bodily syptoms for quite a while. I am told it
              is rather like malaria at times. Eventually goes away.

              I've seen Master Eldred cast with a cutting torch as a heater
              and trying to stand out of the huge amounts of fumes as the
              zinc gradually burned out of the brass. Tin/copper makes Bronze.
              I think he may have had milder symptoms. He melted in
              an open crucible and poured it into wooden or metal
              sand casting flasks right on top of a block wall.
              Still in one piece. Some folks are just lucky.

              I recommend casting over a sand table with a splashguard
              on your side of it. In industrial arts our casting sand
              table was low but it was on rollers. Melted metals which
              are hot enough can hit concrete, and spall themselves
              and bits of the concrete off by a steam reaction from
              liberating the water in the concrete. Happens very fast
              I am told.

              Cadmium is considered quite hazardous, particularly in the
              jewelery field where it was in so many solders. I once read
              that jewelers (and welders) have about ten years less life-
              span. Many plating solutions were cyanide based - most
              of the briter ones. I'm not sure if someone has licked
              the silver plating without cyanide successfully yet.
              This is why I have three fume hoods to install in
              my shop as well as a localized movable dust extraction
              system with a much smaller micron bag to add to it.

              I had tried doing bone carving, which I love, and I was
              producing a few really good pieces. Unfortunately the
              muscles in my arms and back won't handle it now and
              I am going to have to switch over to electrical rotary
              tools and pneumatic engravers. The high rpm ruby burrs
              scare the mess out of me making dust that tiny. After
              a particle size gets too small your cilia in the lungs
              can't expel it as it gets below the cilia heads.

              Two years ago I damned near died of something causing
              pneumonia (that was not showing the symptoms I am familiar
              with from two previous bouts of pneumonia, and two of
              pleurisy. So I rather suspect the bone dust. Fever of 105
              when they started treating me. Two days on anti-biotic
              IVs in the emergency room and intensive care. Amazing
              how quick they can cure you these days. I think the
              bill was in the $5200 range for two days.

              > Better to give it a good grinding first to get the
              > plating off the exposed
              > bits before heating to give it a 'patina'.

              Sounds like good advice.
              I once got chromic acid poisoning from rewelding
              plastic bottoms on some tanks used for cleaning
              glass for the electronics firms. I used to make
              a good portion of the plastic equipment (up to
              huge size) for the industries here in NC/SC/VA.

              Even made a gold plating table once with four
              drop in tanks that over flowed into each other.
              No drain, raised flanges had to fit under the
              U shaped edges of the tanks which fit into a
              depressed center table which I had to make a
              lapped frame cut hollow underneath.
              Rarely got the easy work. Wish I had more
              pictures of things I've built like that one.

              I should like to add never to grind aluminum and steel or
              iron and have it fall into the same pile. If it ignites
              it causes a very high heat thermite reaction. One man
              wrote into a magazine saying he had been badly burned
              on his hands. Came to find out that his son had been
              grinding aluminum on his belt sander the day before.
              When he ground steel and it produced the usual sparks,
              the pile of dust was ignited. You can actually weld
              underwater with a thermite reaction. They use it on
              such things as welding some railroad rails and
              ship repairs. Grinding steel and aluminum on the same
              belt sander was quite common when we used my equipment
              for armoring and I never really considered it dangerous.
              I thought you had to have a magnesium strip to get enough
              heat to ignite it. Apparently not, so it's good to note
              above the sander. That particular one was a 1 x 42".

              I hope most folks know not to grind metal other than
              ferrous (steel/iron) on a grinding wheel used dry.
              It will load the wheel up and make it useless.
              Sanding belts don't load with metal like that.
              Neither do ScotchBrite wheels, but I imagine few
              peole outside the metal or jewelry industry use them.

              > If you REALLY have to burn
              > something, do it way, way outside on a day with a stiff breeze & keep an
              > eye out for the EPA.

              Why I put wheels on some items. Like the bandsaw
              and a rolling metal table suitable for putting
              smaller machines/grinders/sanders/etc. on.
              To take them outdoors.
              Some dusts are really irritating.
              Bone, Horn, Antler - all stink when you are working
              them. All go all over the house from the basement
              shop. Very fine airborne dusts.

              Saw on another list that Tandy is claiming
              their horns are only for "decorative purposes" now.
              Someone had written them wanting to know what the
              strong chemical smell in the horns was now. They
              wouldn't say. Instead they recommended another
              horn dealer.

              I've seen the OSHA folks walk right into all eight of
              my former university's physical plant shops and shut
              down half our equipment, none of which we could use
              again until we matched up to their specifications
              as regarded guards and blade covers. I had to refit
              three shops worth myself. All of a sudden we got all
              kinds of things we'd been wanting. Fortunately I knew
              what the best things on the market at that time were
              when the state coffers finally opened.

              Previously the state was somewhat immune to OSHA and didn't
              care about what happened to the employees. One turned
              them in and they got 17 citations in one day from only
              two job sites. They should have seen the ones we were
              working on. Far worse than the citations.
              Of course he got fired for "falsifying something" on his
              job application the next day or two.

              The rest of us all of a sudden got saddled with all
              kinds of safety gear from special shoes to powered
              dust hoods for the glasses wearing and fume masks
              for the rest. No more paper filters for us. Dammit.

              We never were able to finally get a suitable guard
              for the big swing-saw we used to use to cut heavy
              stuff to length. The saw blade was suspended on
              a swinging trunnion, and you pulled the saw towards
              you. Rather like a radial arm saw without all the
              fancy angles. Very powerful. Almost cut through a
              6X6. I disabled before I fixed that one, the last
              machine. Surplused after I left with a lot of machines
              from very many shops on campus. There were at least
              four machine shops and the design school shop that
              had nothing to do with us there. I don't know what
              the vocational ed folks had. Never saw their shop.
              I was in industrial arts - now technical education
              with half the machines surplused to make room for
              the computers.

              I am seeing more and more warnings in magazines now
              that wood dusts are carcinogenic (cancer causing).

              This first was looked at in Japan and later the U.S.
              and they determined that it was mostly nasal cancers
              related to sanding and finishing. That finer particulate
              matter again. Having worked many, many thousands of
              board feet myself in many species ya gotta wonder.

              I know poplar dust used to crack my nasal membranes
              after the dust dried them out.

              Now the medieval man who used axes, adzes, chisels,
              and sometimes saws and boring tools rarely made such
              a dusty mess of himself.

              Magnus

              >
              > regards
              > Brusi
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