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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Pavilion Architecture Questions

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  • Rapier3971@aol.com
    As an Architect used to dealing in spans and loads I may be able to give you a little help :-), I don t recommend using treaded 4 x 4 s. They will twist on you
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 2 4:41 PM
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      As an Architect used to dealing in spans and loads I may be able to give you a little help :-), I don't recommend using treaded 4 x 4's. They will twist on you like a pretzel. I'm yet to see one remain straight when used horizontal. Their strength comes from vertical support. 24' is a hell of a span even it we go as low as a 4 pound roof load (very low weight compare to a normal structure) If I had the actual size of the tent I can figure out a weight load on the ridge beam, which is what you are making. Instead I would use yellow pine nominal lumber and lap join the two pieces, use a steel sleeve like you planned and bolt it using 1/2" bolts. Even with that I would not sleep under it. I would put a center post. With the low weight of a tent roof I would not recommend anything less than 2 x 10's.
      Another important point: How are you attaching the end posts to the ridge beam? The structure is only as good as the joint of the supports. Email me with more information and I will be able to figure out the loads.
      For the rest of the group, if you guys need a plan drawn for one of you projects I would not mind drawing it in AutoCad for you. I have gotten some good information out of the group and it is a small way to help out.
      Pepin de Bourgogne
      (Joe)
       
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: ghandwerker@...
      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 9:29 AM
      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Pavilion Architecture Questions

      Greetins all,
       
      I have a question reguarding the architectural strength of wood. I am attempting to span a 24ft length for a Saxon A frame pavilion. I am thinking of doing this by using 10ft preassure treated 4x4s for the uprights at each end of the tent. Then I am planning on using two preasure treated 12ft 4x4s as the cross beam by connecting them end to end with a 3ft 1/4inch thich steel cuff bolted in place. Do you guys think that the steal cuff will hold the 4X4s, or am I building a death trap?
       
      Thanks!
       
      Volkahard
      House Hedgehog

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    • James W. Pratt, Jr.
      Are you talking lag screws or through bolts? I would not recomend any screws in the joint section. They would wear out after 5-6 take downs. Through bolts
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 2 8:35 PM
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        Are you talking lag screws or through bolts? I would not recomend any
        screws in the joint section. They would wear out after 5-6 take downs.
        Through bolts with fender washers on both sides are better though you have
        to make sure the head and nut ends do not touch canvas.

        James Cunningham

        < I'd use lag bolts >
      • tracystar2000
        Greetings unto the group! My name is Malaki Dracwin and I am new to this group. Please forgive this rather lengthy first post. I haven t yet gotten to read all
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 3 9:19 AM
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          Greetings unto the group!

          My name is Malaki Dracwin and I am new to this group. Please forgive
          this rather lengthy first post.

          I haven't yet gotten to read all of the past posts, but this pavilion
          pole issue is one that I have dealt with before. Too often these
          things are over-engeneered. In my experience, lighter is better. When
          my wife and I were first married we purchased a double bell wedge
          from Panther. It has only a 5' ridgepole, but the two poles that went
          from the ends of the ridge, although only 1.25" in diameter, took up
          a LOT of floor space. To remedy this I built a new ridgepole of
          mahogany (light-weight and strong) and set it so that one of its
          rounded corners (square cross section) fit into the top of the ridge.
          I then drilled four holes for upright poles that matched the angle of
          the sides of the tent, which I reinforced by gluing in steel tubing
          within which the all thread of the poles would slide, preventing
          undue wear and tear. The pole set-up resembled the frame for a swing
          set. This works especially well in the high winds of Ansteorra.

          A few years later we purchased a large pavilion from Tent Masters,
          measuring about 10' x 20' at its base. With the ridge pole (2" x 2" x
          8') set in on top of two 1.25" diameter poles, the pavilion stood
          well enough but we once again found ourselves with the pole problem
          in the most inconvenient of places.

          While studying architecture I became fascinated with the concept of
          the compression ring. Such a ring is used in Mongolian gers (yurts)
          in the form of a very long, woven belt that girdles the top of the
          lattice, keeping the center ring and rafter poles from pushing it
          outwards. I noticed that our large pavilion already had a compression
          ring of sorts in the guise of the drip flap, which was reinforced
          with heavy, woven cord. This sparked an idea.

          I made a ridgepole of laminated mahogany (2" x 2") with the two holes
          for the all thread of the vertical poles. These were specifically for
          pitching the tent. The ends of the ridgepole had a horizontal double
          hole in each end. Into these double holes went a piece of 1/4" steel
          wire bent into the shape of a Y, the base being doubled and therefore
          would keep the Y from twisting in the hole. Once the pavilion was
          pitched (with the Y's in place) a rafter pole would be put into
          place. Each rafter pole had a 1/4" hole in the top end and a screw
          eye in the bottom end. Because my parameter poles are all 1.25" dowel
          rod (as straight of grain as possible) with 1/4" all-thread glued
          into the top end for the rope, all one had to do was to stab the arm
          of the Y into the hole of the rafter pole, remove the rope from that
          corresponding corner pole, slip the screw eye onto the all thread and
          replace the rope, making sure that the drip flap compression ring was
          well seated over the pole (the edges of the poll ends should be
          rounded off to prevent wear on the canvas). Do this to all four
          corners and you have a pavilion with no center poles (a rather
          magical feeling when one walks in).

          I realize that this sounds pretty flimsy, but I never had a problem
          with it coming down on my head, even during near-tornadic weather. We
          have even had a slight snowfall on the tent without any form of
          mishap. Admittedly it is a bit of fun to set up, but it works.

          Good luck with yours!
          Malaki
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