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Re:Pavilion Architecture Questions

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  • Craig Robert Pierpont
    M Lord, Why pressure treat? Especially for the cross member. Flying termites? It s way heavier but not way stronger. Why 4x4? A 4x4 is only twice as strong as
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 2, 2007
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      M'Lord,
       
      Why pressure treat? Especially for the cross member. Flying termites? It's way heavier but not way stronger.
       
      Why 4x4? A 4x4 is only twice as strong as a 2x4. A 2x8 weighs the same but is 4 times as strong in relation to downward pressure. The side to side stresses will presumably be balanced by the two opposing sides of the tent. 
       
      If one wanted to be really clever, one could correct for the inevitable sag at the splice by a tensioned cable on the bottom of the beam. (Just cause you could.)

      Craig Robert
      Lord Craig Robert le Luthier de Pierrepont OVO CAR
      Apprentice to Dame Alysea of Ashley
       

      Pavilion Architecture Questions

      Posted by: "Thomas E Handwerker" ghandwerker@...   ghandwerker

      Fri Feb 2, 2007 6:29 am (PST)

      Greetins all,

      I have a question reguarding the architectural strength of wood. I am attempting to span a 24ft length for a Saxon A frame pavilion. I am thinking of doing this by using 10ft preassure treated 4x4s for the uprights at each end of the tent. Then I am planning on using two preasure treated 12ft 4x4s as the cross beam by connecting them end to end with a 3ft 1/4inch thich steel cuff bolted in place. Do you guys think that the steal cuff will hold the 4X4s, or am I building a death trap?

      Thanks!

      Volkahard
      House Hedgehog


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    • Rapier3971@aol.com
      As an Architect used to dealing in spans and loads I may be able to give you a little help :-), I don t recommend using treaded 4 x 4 s. They will twist on you
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 2, 2007
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        As an Architect used to dealing in spans and loads I may be able to give you a little help :-), I don't recommend using treaded 4 x 4's. They will twist on you like a pretzel. I'm yet to see one remain straight when used horizontal. Their strength comes from vertical support. 24' is a hell of a span even it we go as low as a 4 pound roof load (very low weight compare to a normal structure) If I had the actual size of the tent I can figure out a weight load on the ridge beam, which is what you are making. Instead I would use yellow pine nominal lumber and lap join the two pieces, use a steel sleeve like you planned and bolt it using 1/2" bolts. Even with that I would not sleep under it. I would put a center post. With the low weight of a tent roof I would not recommend anything less than 2 x 10's.
        Another important point: How are you attaching the end posts to the ridge beam? The structure is only as good as the joint of the supports. Email me with more information and I will be able to figure out the loads.
        For the rest of the group, if you guys need a plan drawn for one of you projects I would not mind drawing it in AutoCad for you. I have gotten some good information out of the group and it is a small way to help out.
        Pepin de Bourgogne
        (Joe)
         
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: ghandwerker@...
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 9:29 AM
        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Pavilion Architecture Questions

        Greetins all,
         
        I have a question reguarding the architectural strength of wood. I am attempting to span a 24ft length for a Saxon A frame pavilion. I am thinking of doing this by using 10ft preassure treated 4x4s for the uprights at each end of the tent. Then I am planning on using two preasure treated 12ft 4x4s as the cross beam by connecting them end to end with a 3ft 1/4inch thich steel cuff bolted in place. Do you guys think that the steal cuff will hold the 4X4s, or am I building a death trap?
         
        Thanks!
         
        Volkahard
        House Hedgehog

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      • James W. Pratt, Jr.
        Are you talking lag screws or through bolts? I would not recomend any screws in the joint section. They would wear out after 5-6 take downs. Through bolts
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 2, 2007
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          Are you talking lag screws or through bolts? I would not recomend any
          screws in the joint section. They would wear out after 5-6 take downs.
          Through bolts with fender washers on both sides are better though you have
          to make sure the head and nut ends do not touch canvas.

          James Cunningham

          < I'd use lag bolts >
        • tracystar2000
          Greetings unto the group! My name is Malaki Dracwin and I am new to this group. Please forgive this rather lengthy first post. I haven t yet gotten to read all
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 3, 2007
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            Greetings unto the group!

            My name is Malaki Dracwin and I am new to this group. Please forgive
            this rather lengthy first post.

            I haven't yet gotten to read all of the past posts, but this pavilion
            pole issue is one that I have dealt with before. Too often these
            things are over-engeneered. In my experience, lighter is better. When
            my wife and I were first married we purchased a double bell wedge
            from Panther. It has only a 5' ridgepole, but the two poles that went
            from the ends of the ridge, although only 1.25" in diameter, took up
            a LOT of floor space. To remedy this I built a new ridgepole of
            mahogany (light-weight and strong) and set it so that one of its
            rounded corners (square cross section) fit into the top of the ridge.
            I then drilled four holes for upright poles that matched the angle of
            the sides of the tent, which I reinforced by gluing in steel tubing
            within which the all thread of the poles would slide, preventing
            undue wear and tear. The pole set-up resembled the frame for a swing
            set. This works especially well in the high winds of Ansteorra.

            A few years later we purchased a large pavilion from Tent Masters,
            measuring about 10' x 20' at its base. With the ridge pole (2" x 2" x
            8') set in on top of two 1.25" diameter poles, the pavilion stood
            well enough but we once again found ourselves with the pole problem
            in the most inconvenient of places.

            While studying architecture I became fascinated with the concept of
            the compression ring. Such a ring is used in Mongolian gers (yurts)
            in the form of a very long, woven belt that girdles the top of the
            lattice, keeping the center ring and rafter poles from pushing it
            outwards. I noticed that our large pavilion already had a compression
            ring of sorts in the guise of the drip flap, which was reinforced
            with heavy, woven cord. This sparked an idea.

            I made a ridgepole of laminated mahogany (2" x 2") with the two holes
            for the all thread of the vertical poles. These were specifically for
            pitching the tent. The ends of the ridgepole had a horizontal double
            hole in each end. Into these double holes went a piece of 1/4" steel
            wire bent into the shape of a Y, the base being doubled and therefore
            would keep the Y from twisting in the hole. Once the pavilion was
            pitched (with the Y's in place) a rafter pole would be put into
            place. Each rafter pole had a 1/4" hole in the top end and a screw
            eye in the bottom end. Because my parameter poles are all 1.25" dowel
            rod (as straight of grain as possible) with 1/4" all-thread glued
            into the top end for the rope, all one had to do was to stab the arm
            of the Y into the hole of the rafter pole, remove the rope from that
            corresponding corner pole, slip the screw eye onto the all thread and
            replace the rope, making sure that the drip flap compression ring was
            well seated over the pole (the edges of the poll ends should be
            rounded off to prevent wear on the canvas). Do this to all four
            corners and you have a pavilion with no center poles (a rather
            magical feeling when one walks in).

            I realize that this sounds pretty flimsy, but I never had a problem
            with it coming down on my head, even during near-tornadic weather. We
            have even had a slight snowfall on the tent without any form of
            mishap. Admittedly it is a bit of fun to set up, but it works.

            Good luck with yours!
            Malaki
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