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Re: chip carving

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  • vinlandar
    Thanks Bob, I have done so, and that s a great site! I am going to look around to check out his books and videos. They look like what I need. Thanks again!
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 29, 2002
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      Thanks Bob, I have done so, and that's a great site! I am going to
      look around to check out his books and videos. They look like what I
      need.

      Thanks again!

      -Charlie


      --- In medievalsawdust@y..., "ragnarironhead" <ragnarironhead@y...>
      wrote:
      > Charlie,
      >
      > Check out http://www.chipcarving.com - my Dad's a woodcarver and
      I've
      > seen this guy's articles in some magazines. Looks like a good
      > starting point.
      >
      > Bob
    • Dan Baker
      I will be there, twice in fact. ... -- YIS, Lord Rhys, Capten gen y Arian Lloer Privateer to the Midrealm Arafu at dawnsio mewn adlaw ...Take time to dance in
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 29, 2002
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        I will be there, twice in fact.

        >
        >so...
        >
        >Who's going to Pennsic?
        >
        > Do we want to get together and
        >put faces and names together...?
        >
        >
        >Charles, you have the most central
        >camp, would you like be tha meting place?
        >
        >
        > Conal
        >
        >
        >__________________________________________________
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        >Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
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        --
        YIS,

        Lord Rhys, Capten gen y Arian Lloer
        Privateer to the Midrealm

        Arafu at dawnsio mewn adlaw
        ...Take time to dance in the rain...

        _________________________________________________________________
        MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
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      • James Winkler
        I am... oops... YOU already knew that... Anyway... my pavillion could serve as the meeting place. When would folks like to get together? Chas. ... From:
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 29, 2002
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          I am...  oops... YOU already knew that... 
           
          Anyway...  my pavillion could serve as the meeting place.  When would folks like to get together?  
           
          Chas.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
          Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 7:42 AM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [medievalsawdust] Re: chip carving
           
          so...

          Who's going to Pennsic?

             Do we want to get together and
          put faces and names together...?


          Charles, you have the most central
          camp, would you like be tha meting place?


                            Conal


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        • Beth and Bob Matney
          What are the earliest examples of chip carving in wood/bone/ivory that you know of? Would really like to find a good scholarly reference on the history...
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 4, 2007
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            What are the earliest examples of chip carving in wood/bone/ivory
            that you know of? Would really like to find a good scholarly
            reference on the history...

            Thanks,
            Beth

            On page 22 of
            Laing, Lloyd Robert, and Jennifer Laing. Early English Art and
            Architecture: Archaeology and Society. Stroud, Gloucestershire
            [England]: Sutton Pub, 1996. ISBN:0750904623 9780750904629 OCLC:35360600

            "The first manifestations of Anglo-Saxon art may be termed the
            Vermand style, after a cemetery in France in which examples of it are
            well represented (81). The style employs chip-carving - a technique
            derived from woodworking, originally developed, like so many Germanic
            decorative techniques, around the head of the Black Sea. This became
            widespread along the Roman frontier in Germany, where it was taken up
            by Germanic troops in the Roman army."

            footnote 81: "Evison, 1965, useful general discussion."
            Evison, Vera I. The Fifth-Century Invasions South of the Thames.
            [London]: University of London, Athlone Press, 1965. OCLC:1354130
          • Tracy Swanson
            Mangle boards were chip carved early on. In case you are unfamiliar, a mangle board was used to press water out of clothing that had just been washed. A wooden
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 4, 2007
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              Mangle boards were chip carved early on. In case you are unfamiliar, a mangle board was used to press water out of clothing that had just been washed. A wooden roller was placed upon the wet clothing, then the mangle board was used to apply pressure to the roller. The mangle board became a means of asking a lady to wed. By present her with a finely carved mangle board you showed her your intentions through the patterns of your carving - like the symbolism of the love spoon later adopted. Do a web search to find out the earliest dates.
               
              In Magical Service,
              Malaki
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney
              Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:00 PM
              To: woodworking
              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] chip carving

              What are the earliest examples of chip carving in wood/bone/ivory
              that you know of? Would really like to find a good scholarly
              reference on the history...

              Thanks,
              Beth

              On page 22 of
              Laing, Lloyd Robert, and Jennifer Laing. Early English Art and
              Architecture: Archaeology and Society. Stroud, Gloucestershire
              [England]: Sutton Pub, 1996. ISBN:0750904623 9780750904629 OCLC:35360600

              "The first manifestations of Anglo-Saxon art may be termed the
              Vermand style, after a cemetery in France in which examples of it are
              well represented (81). The style employs chip-carving - a technique
              derived from woodworking, originally developed, like so many Germanic
              decorative techniques, around the head of the Black Sea. This became
              widespread along the Roman frontier in Germany, where it was taken up
              by Germanic troops in the Roman army."

              footnote 81: "Evison, 1965, useful general discussion."
              Evison, Vera I. The Fifth-Century Invasions South of the Thames.
              [London]: University of London, Athlone Press, 1965. OCLC:1354130

            • Beth and Bob Matney
              I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples.. (lots of post 1600 though). I m looking for really early examples of chip carving..
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 6, 2007
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                I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
                (lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
                chip carving.. preferable pre-1000

                Thanks
                Beth

                At 11:24 PM 10/4/2007, you wrote:
                >Mangle boards were chip carved early on. In case you are unfamiliar,
                >a mangle board was used to press water out of clothing that had just
                >been washed. A wooden roller was placed upon the wet clothing, then
                >the mangle board was used to apply pressure to the roller. The
                >mangle board became a means of asking a lady to wed. By present her
                >with a finely carved mangle board you showed her your intentions
                >through the patterns of your carving - like the symbolism of the
                >love spoon later adopted. Do a web search to find out the earliest dates.
                >
                >In Magical Service,
                >Malaki
                >
                >-----Original Message-----
                >From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                >[mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney
                >Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:00 PM
                >To: woodworking
                >Subject: [MedievalSawdust] chip carving
                >
                >What are the earliest examples of chip carving in wood/bone/ivory
                >that you know of? Would really like to find a good scholarly
                >reference on the history...
                >
                >Thanks,
                >Beth
                >
                >On page 22 of
                >Laing, Lloyd Robert, and Jennifer Laing. Early English Art and
                >Architecture: Archaeology and Society. Stroud, Gloucestershire
                >[England]: Sutton Pub, 1996. ISBN:0750904623 9780750904629 OCLC:35360600
                >
                >"The first manifestations of Anglo-Saxon art may be termed the
                >Vermand style, after a cemetery in France in which examples of it are
                >well represented (81). The style employs chip-carving - a technique
                >derived from woodworking, originally developed, like so many Germanic
                >decorative techniques, around the head of the Black Sea. This became
                >widespread along the Roman frontier in Germany, where it was taken up
                >by Germanic troops in the Roman army."
                >
                >footnote 81: "Evison, 1965, useful general discussion."
                >Evison, Vera I. The Fifth-Century Invasions South of the Thames.
                >[London]: University of London, Athlone Press, 1965. OCLC:1354130
                >
                >
              • Rebekah d'Avignon
                That s going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might check Wayne Barton s books, I ve seen some pix of early work in there - nothing before
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 6, 2007
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                  That's going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might check Wayne Barton's books, I've seen some pix of early work in there - nothing before 1300, I believe.

                  Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
                  I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
                  (lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
                  chip carving.. preferable pre-1000

                  Thanks
                  Beth
                  .




                  The quantity of "civilization" possessed by a society is not found in its sciences, technology, or "quality of life". Rather it is found in the manner in which its citizens treat each other - in which case we are just "high tech barbarians".


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                • Beth and Bob Matney
                  We have taken photos of chests (of about that date) that have rondels decorating them in chip carving. Of other earlier surviving carving (such as on early
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 6, 2007
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                    We have taken photos of chests (of about that date) that have rondels
                    decorating them in chip carving. Of other earlier surviving carving
                    (such as on early stave churches), I have not found chip carving and
                    was hoping that someone else had.. given the quote from the book that
                    I posted with the question. I'll check Barton's books (don't have any
                    of his) and see if he has earlier examples or others that we do not
                    have. Lazy I guess, looks like lots of ILL of German Holzfunde...

                    BTW. There is a new book out on Holzfunde from Haithabu (wooden finds
                    from Hedeby)... bit pricey with the exchange rate though.

                    Holzfunde von Haithabu (Gebundene Ausgabe) von Florian Westphal.
                    Gebundene Ausgabe: 248 Seiten Verlag: Wachholtz; Auflage: 1 (2007)
                    Sprache: Deutsch ISBN-10: 3529014117 EUR 70,00

                    Thanks,
                    Beth

                    At 07:30 PM 10/6/2007, you wrote:
                    >That's going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might
                    >check Wayne Barton's books, I've seen some pix of early work in
                    >there - nothing before 1300, I believe.
                    >
                    >Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
                    >I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
                    >(lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
                    >chip carving.. preferable pre-1000
                    >
                    >Thanks
                    >Beth
                  • Dale Compton
                    Look for items done by Durer (sp?) He is late period but did some really good work. Most of what he did was for prints etc. Other examples of chip carving
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 7, 2007
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                      Look for items done by Durer (sp?) He is late period but did some really good work. Most of what he did was for prints etc. Other examples of chip carving where on furniture. I will see if I can find some examples for you.
                       
                      Innis


                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney
                      Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:14 AM
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] chip carving

                      I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
                      (lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
                      chip carving.. preferable pre-1000

                      Thanks
                      Beth

                      At 11:24 PM 10/4/2007, you wrote:

                      >Mangle boards were chip carved early on. In case
                      you are unfamiliar,
                      >a mangle board was used to press water out of
                      clothing that had just
                      >been washed. A wooden roller was placed upon the
                      wet clothing, then
                      >the mangle board was used to apply pressure to the
                      roller. The
                      >mangle board became a means of asking a lady to wed. By
                      present her
                      >with a finely carved mangle board you showed her your
                      intentions
                      >through the patterns of your carving - like the symbolism of
                      the
                      >love spoon later adopted. Do a web search to find out the earliest
                      dates.
                      >
                      >In Magical
                      Service,
                      >Malaki
                      >
                      >-----Original Message-----
                      >From:
                      href="mailto:medievalsawdust%40yahoogroups.com">medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                      >[mailto:
                      href="mailto:medievalsawdust%40yahoogroups.com">medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney
                      >Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:00
                      PM
                      >To: woodworking
                      >Subject: [MedievalSawdust] chip
                      carving
                      >
                      >What are the earliest examples of chip carving in
                      wood/bone/ivory
                      >that you know of? Would really like to find a good
                      scholarly
                      >reference on the
                      history...
                      >
                      >Thanks,
                      >Beth
                      >
                      >On page 22
                      of
                      >Laing, Lloyd Robert, and Jennifer Laing. Early English Art
                      and
                      >Architecture: Archaeology and Society. Stroud,
                      Gloucestershire
                      >[England]: Sutton Pub, 1996. ISBN:0750904623
                      9780750904629 OCLC:35360600
                      >
                      >"The first manifestations of
                      Anglo-Saxon art may be termed the
                      >Vermand style, after a cemetery in
                      France in which examples of it are
                      >well represented (81). The style
                      employs chip-carving - a technique
                      >derived from woodworking, originally
                      developed, like so many Germanic
                      >decorative techniques, around the head
                      of the Black Sea. This became
                      >widespread along the Roman frontier in
                      Germany, where it was taken up
                      >by Germanic troops in the Roman
                      army."
                      >
                      >footnote 81: "Evison, 1965, useful general
                      discussion."
                      >Evison, Vera I. The Fifth-Century Invasions South of the
                      Thames.
                      >[London]: University of London, Athlone Press, 1965.
                      OCLC:1354130
                      >
                      >

                    • Rebekah d'Avignon
                      You may be talking about An Introduction to the History of the Woodcut (Vols I & II). I got mine from eBay. Dale Compton wrote:
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 7, 2007
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                        You may be talking about An Introduction to the History of the Woodcut (Vols I & II). I got mine from eBay.

                        Dale Compton <DComptonjr@...> wrote:
                        Look for items done by Durer (sp?) He is late period but did some really good work. Most of what he did was for prints etc. Other examples of chip carving where on furniture. I will see if I can find some examples for you.
                         
                        Innis
                        .




                        The quantity of "civilization" possessed by a society is not found in its sciences, technology, or "quality of life". Rather it is found in the manner in which its citizens treat each other - in which case we are just "high tech barbarians".


                        Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
                        Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

                      • Jan-Simon Hoogschagen
                        As far as I know, chip carving does not exist on early medieval furniture and other surviving pieces. At least, I have not seen it mentioned in the books, or
                        Message 11 of 18 , Oct 8, 2007
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                          As far as I know, chip carving does not exist on early medieval
                          furniture and other surviving pieces. At least, I have not seen it
                          mentioned in the books, or saw pictures of it.
                          As already said in this discussion, it does appear on chests from the
                          13th / 14th century.
                          I will check the book by Florian Westphal this evening (beautiful book
                          by the way), when I am back home to see if I have not missed any chip
                          carvings. Will also go through Barbara Grodde's book on early medieval
                          furniture, just in case.

                          best wishes,
                          Jan-Simon

                          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Beth and Bob Matney
                          <bmatney@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > We have taken photos of chests (of about that date) that have rondels
                          > decorating them in chip carving. Of other earlier surviving carving
                          > (such as on early stave churches), I have not found chip carving and
                          > was hoping that someone else had.. given the quote from the book that
                          > I posted with the question. I'll check Barton's books (don't have any
                          > of his) and see if he has earlier examples or others that we do not
                          > have. Lazy I guess, looks like lots of ILL of German Holzfunde...
                          >
                          > BTW. There is a new book out on Holzfunde from Haithabu (wooden finds
                          > from Hedeby)... bit pricey with the exchange rate though.
                          >
                          > Holzfunde von Haithabu (Gebundene Ausgabe) von Florian Westphal.
                          > Gebundene Ausgabe: 248 Seiten Verlag: Wachholtz; Auflage: 1 (2007)
                          > Sprache: Deutsch ISBN-10: 3529014117 EUR 70,00
                          >
                          > Thanks,
                          > Beth
                          >
                          > At 07:30 PM 10/6/2007, you wrote:
                          > >That's going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might
                          > >check Wayne Barton's books, I've seen some pix of early work in
                          > >there - nothing before 1300, I believe.
                          > >
                          > >Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
                          > >I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
                          > >(lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
                          > >chip carving.. preferable pre-1000
                          > >
                          > >Thanks
                          > >Beth
                          >
                        • kjworz@comcast.net
                          A lot would depend on your definition of chip carving. Does it have to be in wood? What we recognize today as chip carving has roots in the styles that matured
                          Message 12 of 18 , Oct 8, 2007
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                            A lot would depend on your definition of chip carving.

                            Does it have to be in wood?

                            What we recognize today as chip carving has roots in the styles that matured in Switzerland post period.

                            Every treatise I read about Chip Carving always say that "is an ancient method of decoration" but never cites examples. Citations, the lack thereof, is a bane to our research.

                            Links
                            http://www.caithness.org/community/crafts/chipcarving/McIvorandAllen.htm
                            cites especially the geometric carving influence from Islam

                            http://www.fifulls.com/site/837579/page/45030

                            --
                            -Chris Schwartz
                            Silver Spring, MD

                            -------------- Original message ----------------------
                            From: "Jan-Simon Hoogschagen" <jan-simon@...>
                            > As far as I know, chip carving does not exist on early medieval
                            > furniture and other surviving pieces. At least, I have not seen it
                            > mentioned in the books, or saw pictures of it.
                            > As already said in this discussion, it does appear on chests from the
                            > 13th / 14th century.
                            > I will check the book by Florian Westphal this evening (beautiful book
                            > by the way), when I am back home to see if I have not missed any chip
                            > carvings. Will also go through Barbara Grodde's book on early medieval
                            > furniture, just in case.
                            >
                            > best wishes,
                            > Jan-Simon
                            >
                            > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Beth and Bob Matney
                            > <bmatney@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > We have taken photos of chests (of about that date) that have rondels
                            > > decorating them in chip carving. Of other earlier surviving carving
                            > > (such as on early stave churches), I have not found chip carving and
                            > > was hoping that someone else had.. given the quote from the book that
                            > > I posted with the question. I'll check Barton's books (don't have any
                            > > of his) and see if he has earlier examples or others that we do not
                            > > have. Lazy I guess, looks like lots of ILL of German Holzfunde...
                            > >
                            > > BTW. There is a new book out on Holzfunde from Haithabu (wooden finds
                            > > from Hedeby)... bit pricey with the exchange rate though.
                            > >
                            > > Holzfunde von Haithabu (Gebundene Ausgabe) von Florian Westphal.
                            > > Gebundene Ausgabe: 248 Seiten Verlag: Wachholtz; Auflage: 1 (2007)
                            > > Sprache: Deutsch ISBN-10: 3529014117 EUR 70,00
                            > >
                            > > Thanks,
                            > > Beth
                            > >
                            > > At 07:30 PM 10/6/2007, you wrote:
                            > > >That's going to be tough since wood tends to deteriorate. You might
                            > > >check Wayne Barton's books, I've seen some pix of early work in
                            > > >there - nothing before 1300, I believe.
                            > > >
                            > > >Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
                            > > >I did a search as you suggested, but could not find early examples..
                            > > >(lots of post 1600 though). I'm looking for really early examples of
                            > > >chip carving.. preferable pre-1000
                            > > >
                            > > >Thanks
                            > > >Beth
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Bruce S. R. Lee
                            In stone, do a search on Jesus Family Tomb - at least one of the ossuaries has chip carved rosettes. Photos are in the May/June 2007 (vol 18 No.3) issue of
                            Message 13 of 18 , Oct 8, 2007
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                              In stone, do a search on 'Jesus Family Tomb' - at least one of the
                              ossuaries has 'chip' carved rosettes. Photos are in the May/June 2007
                              (vol 18 No.3) issue of Minerva, if you local library gets it.

                              There are a lot of 'chip' carved designs in stone from the
                              'Classical' world, just that the amount of surviving wood is very
                              limited. I'll have to do a quick search of my Roman woodworking books
                              to see if anything survived from Herculaneum.


                              regards
                              Brusi of Orkney
                              Rowany/Lochac
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