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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Research project...

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  • AlbionWood
    I m positive the 13th and 14th century people took perfectly good care of their stuff - it was those damn barbarians of the 16th and 17th centuries that
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 31, 2006
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      I'm positive the 13th and 14th century people took perfectly good care
      of their stuff - it was those damn barbarians of the 16th and 17th
      centuries that wrecked it all.

      As for a 13th/14th c. trestle table - good luck. Painters and
      illuminators were apparently a lot more impressed by cloth draperies
      than by the furniture under them... I do have a closeup of a painting
      from the Musee des Arts decoratifs that I think might be very late 14th,
      in which you can see the front of a tripod trestle. The
      trestle-to-table connection is, of course, obscured by drapery. If you
      find anything better let me know, I've been searching for years.

      Colin
    • Haraldr Bassi (yahoogroups)
      First you have to define which kind of trestle table you are looking for. The same name is used to refer to tables with connected pillar understructure like
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 1, 2007
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        First you have to define which kind of trestle table you are looking for. The
        same name is used to refer to tables with connected pillar understructure like
        the link that was posted in response to your note as well as to refer to the
        style best described as a three legged saw horse.

        The 13th/14th seems to be more likely to be the 3 legged horse with planks for a
        table, while the more traditional style of a connected understructure seems to
        be more likely 15th/16th. In addition to those basic styles, there are tables
        that are large slabs with four legs, one in each corner. That basic table seems
        to have found life almost through all of period.

        If we look at the 3 legged trestle, we can further divide the styles by the
        arrangement of the three legs. One style, a distinctively later (13/14/15thC)
        period style features a tall trapezoidal end board cut to make a pair of legs
        attached to a cross bar, often with some form of sliding joint for disassembly,
        and a solitary leg square and perpendicular from the far end of the cross bar.

        The earlier style three legged trestle will feature three individual legs. Two
        attached to the ends of the cross bar, splayed outwards on the same side of the
        cross bar with an opposing leg angled out from the center of the cross bar.

        The advantage of this style is that they are easier to setup on slightly uneven
        ground than a four legged trestle. The other advantage is there are less legs to
        interfere with the people using the table. Our camp uses the three separate leg
        style trestles at both indoor events as well as camping events. We will block up
        the legs with scrap wood to make the tops of the trestles level and and add
        additional blocks on top of the cross bars to make the tops parallel with each
        other.

        For table tops we have used 3 planks of 2x10s, 1/2" 2'x4' plywood, a 2'x4'
        plywood solid core hardwood door and for dining, the same trestles have been
        used with a 2'x6.5' solid core door. The point is whatever slab we have
        available to use, we use depending on whether we plan to be setup for two weeks
        or for a few hours. The lesser time periods, we use easier to transport slabs.
        If the table is being used as a work bench, we use the 2x10 slabs.

        Our legs are simple closet rod tapered with a drawknife and fit into round
        tapered holes we made in cedar 4x4x24" long cross bars made using a tapered bit
        in a hand brace. Having done it that way, I'd say it would be easier to make the
        ends of the legs round using a drawknife or doweling bit in a brace and make a
        regular round hole in the cross bars. My original prototype featured a basic
        square mortise and even though the prototype was simple 1x3 for the legs and
        5/4x3 for the cross bar and the mortise was only 1/2" x1" it still was able to
        hold my 340lb (at the time) body up.

        The later, more gothic style, end trapezoid style three legged trestle is really
        not well suited to outdoor use. The only time we've had a table come down was
        that style of trestle as they just tended to slide down the hills at Pennsic and
        collapse.

        If you are looking for later styles, the fixed style connected pedestal style
        trestle table was done in many ways by many cultures over many years.

        Haraldr

        James Winkler wrote:
        > Ok... so, like, I get this email from a fella' in Calontir who has a need to
        > find out some info on trestle tables... with a specific request for
        > 13th/14th c. models.
        >
        > I have *some* info... mostly from illuminations...
        >
        > What I'm asking this list is... if you have any good examples or sources of
        > info, could ya' pass em' along? I'd like to be able to give this fella' a
        > bit more that the wee bit I've scrapped up in my own library. [Darn... I
        > wish those 13th/14th c. folks took better care of their stuff so we had some
        > physical examples...]
        >
        > Thanks - Chas.
      • msgilliandurham
        ... A question for the list -- has anyone actually been able to ILL this book? I tried, and was told my requesting library couldn t get it for me because it
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 2, 2007
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          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce S. R. Lee"
          <bsrlee2@...> wrote:
          >
          > They found a couple of trestles in the Mary Rose Wreck. Published in'
          > Before the Mast' - Use Interlibrary loan (OK, I have a copy of my own
          > ;-) ).

          A question for the list -- has anyone actually been able to ILL this
          book? I tried, and was told my requesting library couldn't get it for
          me because it was too expensive a volume, and their sources wouldn't
          supply it.

          If you have been able to get it, Could you pleasepost here the library
          that loaned it? I'd really appreciate it.

          Thanks,

          Gillian [reluctant to drop $100+ on a book until she's seen it] Durham
        • JBRMM266@aol.com
          The Mary Rose . . . I saw many of the artifacts on display in a museum in Portsmouth, VA. Fascinating. Also a bit scary, some of them. There was an
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 2, 2007
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            The Mary Rose . . .
             
            I saw many of the artifacts on display in a museum in Portsmouth, VA.  Fascinating.
             
            Also a bit scary, some of them. There was an antipersonnel gun with a rectangular bore, that they found loaded - with cube-shaped shot.  It was called a "hailshot piece" and must have been prone to disintegration . . .
             
            Donal 
             
             
            -----Original Message-----
            From: msgilliandurham@...
            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 9:05 AM
            Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Before the Mast and ILL question

            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce S. R. Lee"
            <bsrlee2@...> wrote:
            
            > > They found a couple of trestles in the Mary Rose Wreck. Published in' > Before the Mast' - Use Interlibrary loan (OK, I have a copy of my own > ;-) ).
            A question for the list -- has anyone actually been able to ILL this book? I tried, and was told my requesting library couldn't get it for me because it was too expensive a volume, and their sources wouldn't supply it. If you have been able to get it, Could you pleasepost here the library that loaned it? I'd really appreciate it. Thanks, Gillian [reluctant to drop $100+ on a book until she's seen it] Durham

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          • Helen Schultz
            Gillian: I ve not tried to ILL the book, since I bought a copy of it at Pennsic this past year. It VERY worth the $100 for it!! The book is huge and full of
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 2, 2007
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              Gillian:
               
              I've not tried to ILL the book, since I bought a copy of it at Pennsic this past year.  It VERY worth the $100 for it!!  The book is huge and full of the most interesting bits and pieces <grin>, not only woodworking stuff, but all sorts of information about clothing, accessories, locations of people, etc.
               
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              Meisterin Katarina Helene von Schönborn, OL
              Shire of Narrental (Peru, Indiana)  http://narrental.home.comcast.net
              Middle Kingdom
              http://meisterin.katarina.home.comcast.net
               
              "A room without books is like a body without a soul." -- Cicero
               
              "The danger in life is not that we aim too high and miss.
              The problem is that we aim too low and hit the mark."  -- Michaelangelo
               
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
               

              --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, "Bruce S. R. Lee"
              <bsrlee2@... > wrote:
              >
              > They found a couple of trestles in the Mary Rose Wreck. Published in'
              > Before the Mast' - Use Interlibrary loan (OK, I have a copy of my own
              > ;-) ).

              A question for the list -- has anyone actually been able to ILL this
              book? I tried, and was told my requesting library couldn't get it for
              me because it was too expensive a volume, and their sources wouldn't
              supply it.

              If you have been able to get it, Could you pleasepost here the library
              that loaned it? I'd really appreciate it.

              Thanks,

              Gillian [reluctant to drop $100+ on a book until she's seen it] Durham

            • Beth and Bob Matney
              Get it from David Brown Books (US) 1-800-791-9354. They are selling it for $80. Currently they have a few slightly damaged copies for around $20 plus shipping.
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 2, 2007
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                Get it from David Brown Books (US) 1-800-791-9354. They are selling it for
                $80. Currently they have a few slightly damaged copies for around $20 plus
                shipping.
                http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/36367

                I paid full price for my copy when it came out and consider it well worth
                the money.

                Warning: this book dealer is highly addictive and damaging to your pocket
                book. (a very satisfied customer).

                Beth Matney

                At 08:05 AM 1/2/2007, you wrote:
                >--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce S. R. Lee"
                ><bsrlee2@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > They found a couple of trestles in the Mary Rose Wreck. Published in'
                > > Before the Mast' - Use Interlibrary loan (OK, I have a copy of my own
                > > ;-) ).
                >
                >A question for the list -- has anyone actually been able to ILL this
                >book? I tried, and was told my requesting library couldn't get it for
                >me because it was too expensive a volume, and their sources wouldn't
                >supply it.
                >
                >If you have been able to get it, Could you pleasepost here the library
                >that loaned it? I'd really appreciate it.
                >
                >Thanks,
                >
                >Gillian [reluctant to drop $100+ on a book until she's seen it] Durham
              • maf@gleichen.ca
                I ordered a copy through Blackwell and it was under 40 pounds with shipping. It s a great book worth the money but I tried for 2 months and never did find a
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 2, 2007
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                  I ordered a copy through Blackwell and it was under 40 pounds with shipping. It's a great book worth the money but I tried for 2 months and never did find a source to ILL it through.
                   
                  Mark
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 7:05 AM
                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Before the Mast and ILL question

                  --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, "Bruce S. R. Lee"
                  <bsrlee2@... > wrote:
                  >
                  > They found a couple of trestles in the Mary Rose Wreck. Published in'
                  > Before the Mast' - Use Interlibrary loan (OK, I have a copy of my own
                  > ;-) ).

                  A question for the list -- has anyone actually been able to ILL this
                  book? I tried, and was told my requesting library couldn't get it for
                  me because it was too expensive a volume, and their sources wouldn't
                  supply it.

                  If you have been able to get it, Could you pleasepost here the library
                  that loaned it? I'd really appreciate it.

                  Thanks,

                  Gillian [reluctant to drop $100+ on a book until she's seen it] Durham

                • Liedtke Goetz
                  ... DBBC currently has a special for Before the Mast: Life and Death aboard the Mary Rose and Geoff Egan s Material culture in London in an age of
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 2, 2007
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                    --- Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:

                    > Get it from David Brown Books (US) 1-800-791-9354. They are selling
                    > it for
                    > $80. Currently they have a few slightly damaged copies for around $20
                    > plus
                    > shipping.
                    > http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/36367

                    DBBC currently has a special for "Before the Mast: Life and Death
                    aboard the Mary Rose" and Geoff Egan's "Material culture in London in
                    an age of transition: Tudor and Stuart period finds c. 1450 - c. 1700
                    from Excavations at Riverside sites in Southwark" for a combined total
                    of $100.

                    Goetz Liedtke


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                  • Bruce S. R. Lee
                    In Australia the major libraries will photocopy the relevant pages of their books if they don t want to let the original out of their possession - I obtained
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 3, 2007
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                      In Australia the major libraries will photocopy the relevant pages of
                      their books if they don't want to let the original out of their
                      possession - I obtained an article from the 'Salzburgerjahrbuch'(sp?)
                      on the Hatra ballista this way, but they forgot the photographic
                      plates which took me years to get copies of.

                      If you want the page with the trestle details I can probably wrestle
                      it onto my scanner & e-mail to a safe account. Come to think of it, I
                      should make a set or two to take on my next camping event.

                      regards
                      Brusi of Orkney
                      Rowany/Lochac
                      Sydney/Australia
                      At 01:05 AM 3/01/2007, you wrote:
                      >--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce S. R. Lee"
                      ><bsrlee2@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > They found a couple of trestles in the Mary Rose Wreck. Published in'
                      > > Before the Mast' - Use Interlibrary loan (OK, I have a copy of my own
                      > > ;-) ).
                      >
                      >A question for the list -- has anyone actually been able to ILL this
                      >book? I tried, and was told my requesting library couldn't get it for
                      >me because it was too expensive a volume, and their sources wouldn't
                      >supply it.
                      >
                      >If you have been able to get it, Could you pleasepost here the library
                      >that loaned it? I'd really appreciate it.
                      >
                      >Thanks,
                      >
                      >Gillian [reluctant to drop $100+ on a book until she's seen it] Durham
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